Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“If we have something that is mandatory, but not enforceable in practical terms, then it becomes a little bit of a bit of paper exercise. It is like saying, "Here is something which has to happen", when actually, from a practical point of view, schoolchildren will not be subject to fines or to any level of punishment as a result of not wearing face coverings. I think that if we simply say that something is mandatory but we have no means or practical measures of enforcement, then there is a slight danger that it becomes a bit of a toothless tiger. <BR /> <BR />Adjustments have been made to advice on a range of issues and, as I have indicated, I will be liaising closely with the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser.”
“If I agreed with you about making it mandatory, we would have made it mandatory. I think that what we need is a balance of things. We need to ensure what is appropriate advice for the circumstances. Dedicated school transport is different to general transport because there is not the same mix of ages. <BR /> <BR />The big problem, particularly with COVID-19, with regard to risks are not, generally speaking, between children; we know that there is a relatively low risk. It is actually about a mixture of children and older adults, with older adults being more vulnerable. Because school transport is dedicated purely to those who are using it for that purpose, a different approach is taken. However, I think that it is also appropriate that a balance is struck.”
“<BR /> <BR />The guidance took account of the advice of the Chief Medical Officer (CMO) and the Chief Scientific Adviser (CSA), who both input into the drafting process and did not recommend that face coverings were to be made mandatory on dedicated school transport. While I believe that the current position of strongly recommending their use is appropriate, the advice will be kept under review and it will continue to take account of the expert advice provided by the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I believe that my Department has maintained a simple, clear and consistent message: that it is strongly recommended that all pupils using school transport, irrespective of age or the form of transport, should wear a face covering. That has been widely publicised through a range of communication channels. It is mandatory for all people aged 13 and over, unless they are exempt for a medical reason, to wear face coverings on public transport. The distinction between dedicated school transport and public transport services are because members of the public do not use dedicated school transport, which means that there is an overall lower level of risk.”
“One of the unfortunate aspects was that while all the focus was on examinations, a revised restart paper was sent out last week to all schools. It was comprehensive in nature, covering 70 pages, with the advice and guidance provided absolutely consistent once again with the health advice from the Public Health Agency. <BR /> <BR />One of the lessons that has to be learned here and elsewhere is that there is no substitute for having examinations. It is the only thing that can be seen to be entirely robust and fair. Going with that, as we move ahead, underlines the absolute necessity of having a full, safe return to school, five days a week, so that we can ensure that all our pupils, battered and bruised as they will be by the COVID situation, are given the best possible chance to progress into the future.”
“There will have to be a UK-wide solution as part of that because that level of funding cannot simply be plucked out of the air. <BR /> <BR />Let us be very clear: had a different system been put in place in March and had we ended up with 95% A* to C, there would have been massive pressure around the number of additional places at university because a larger number of students would have been in a position here to seek those places. That will have an implication for the cap, and all of us, from whatever party, will need to work together to be able to change that cap and provide that additional funding. <BR /> <BR />I will deal briefly with a couple of other points. Mr O'Dowd mentioned the reopening of schools.”
“Whatever other concerns there are, we now have a situation where all parts of the United Kingdom are in exactly the same position as regards all the qualifications. <BR /> <BR />I will mention briefly the implications. There are implications that have not been mentioned that may be of a less substantial nature than higher education. There will be implications because of the increase in the grade awards that will create issues for post-primary schools and further education colleges because there is likely to be a shift in where pupils are looking to go. That is something that will need to be addressed. The principal problem has been recognised within higher education particularly. Let us make it very clear that that will be a challenge to the Executive.”
“Whatever concerns I had and have in relation to the fairness or equality in any of these things, my principal concern was on the basis of ensuring that our young people were not treated in a disadvantaged manner compared to their peers elsewhere. There were discussions between ourselves and England. Wales was seeking a similar approach. It was not simply a question of us following England, but whenever we have a situation where the English market represents about 85% of students in the UK as a whole, we simply could not go in some solo direction. So, yesterday, we ended up announcing at exactly the same time as England. Wales announced roughly about an hour before us, but all three nations were kept in step.”
“I am happy to speak to the Member afterwards. He will appreciate that I have only four minutes left. <BR /> <BR />Turning to AS levels and A levels, Members will be aware that I directed CCEA to review all awards issued last week and issue a fresh set of results that were based on the higher of the original standardised grade or the teacher-assessed grade. Those that received standardised grades that are higher than the centre-assessed grades will retain the higher award. While I believe that that is the right thing to do in the current circumstances, I recognise that there is still an importance in standardisation and comparability of grades across centres. That will be something that we will have to bring into play.”
“I have mentioned the internal Northern Ireland market, but there was also the fact that, while there was a clear remedy that could be used for the A levels and AS levels in the form of a robust appeals system, a lack of evidence of individual achievement meant that could not be used to the same extent with GCSEs. That would have rendered an appeals systems very difficult and time-consuming and created a risk that many students would have found themselves without results before, perhaps, decisions would have needed to be made and, in some cases, students would not have received their results until September or into the autumn. Also, the methodology for GCSEs could not bring in the prior performance of individuals, because there was no robust comparable data. <BR /> <BR />Turning to AS levels and A levels —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before I move on to discuss A levels and AS levels, I want to set out the rationale that I have announced for GCSEs. Over the weekend, I carefully considered advice from CCEA about the imminent award of GCSEs. I decided over the weekend and announced on Monday that it would be in the best interests of our young people to change the original decision and directed CCEA to award all candidates with the grades that had been calculated by their teachers — the centre-assessed grades. <BR /> <BR />A number of factors led to that decision.”
“It is about a legal position. I am sure that we will come back to the wider debate on another day, but it is also the case that there is an inextricable link. I appreciate that not every Member will share the same level of concern about that linkage, but, for our students, we have always tried to create a three-country equivalence between England, Northern Ireland and Wales. That is of significance to the examinations boards, the results and because such a large percentage of our students go to universities across the water. Therefore, having some level of linkage is very important. If we were seen simply to be, if the Member forgives the pun, "ourselves alone", and took a view that entirely deviated from everything, in the longer run the people who would suffer would be our students.”
“If changes were to be made and Northern Ireland was to go entirely in a solo direction, I would have had the power to make a change that could have affected the vast majority, 80%, including those within the 80% who had maybe not got the grades that they had deserved, but that would have meant that there was no equality between them and the 20% that lay outside my hands. That also had to be borne in mind.”
“That is simply human nature. It would be the same if anybody were applying professional judgement in any situation: some people will be more strict and others will be more lenient and you do not have that level of fairness. I also appreciate Mr O'Dowd's position about bodies outside Northern Ireland. I disagree with him, but that might well be a debate for another day. <BR /> <BR />One of the factors that was also of particular relevance to A levels and AS levels and in providing that level of equality is that around 97% or 98% of GCSEs are set by CCEA and we have, with a very small exception, a largelyinternal market in Northern Ireland. Around one in five A-level and AS-level qualifications are given by boards that are mainly English; a small number are Welsh.”
“It will undoubtedly be the case that, while very good professional judgements have been made, if you do not have standardisation, you cannot guarantee that one pupil in one school will be treated exactly the same as a pupil in another school.”
“I appreciate that, given the circumstances, while appeals continue, there will not be the same need for appeals. I will give Members some figures. Before any decision was finalised yesterday, out of about 24,000 CCEA A-level awards, 948 had been appealed, which is a little under 4% of the overall total. That has to be put in context. While a process has now been adopted for GCSEs, A levels and AS levels — I am not in any way attacking anybody — that system also has flaws. If you do not have standardisation, there is grade inflation, and it has been shown that, as a minimum, the numbers of A* to C at A level will go up by more than 10% in a single year. At AS level, I think that the figure is 17%. I think that the figures will be lower at GCSE level, but obviously those results are not yet out so I am not at liberty to say.”
“The appeals process is normally conducted on procedural grounds, but it was directed so that any individual could show their work. If they had a certain level of prior attainment and showed evidence of that, an appeal could be taken. That would have allowed every individual to be treated on merit rather than there being a blanket solution. <BR /> <BR />There was some over-hyping in England about the "triple lock", where the only evidence that was offered was mock results. We went much wider than that. While it had been indicated that a mock result would simply overturn a result, when the fine detail was published, Ofqual had to withdraw it. As elsewhere, it was simply one aspect of evidence that may or may not have led to a change. We put forward an opportunity for everyone to do that. <BR /> <BR />Members mentioned the number of appeals.”
“<BR /> <BR />The aim throughout has been to try to create something that preserves not only the integrity of the exams but the greatest fairness. The problem is that any system being adopted has flaws and drawbacks. In the application of this process, we have seen that, on a broader system-wide basis, it probably produced the overall results that were anticipated and created an overall position for Northern Ireland. Where it clearly fell down on some occasions was with individual schools, with individual cohorts and particularly with individuals themselves. That was unacceptable. Indeed, it was a similar position in other jurisdictions, and different approaches were taken. In Northern Ireland, my initial approach was to ensure that we had a widened appeals process.”
“The issue may be dealt with in my next few remarks. <BR /> <BR />The proposer of the motion and other Members referred to the algorithm being published. On Friday past, I committed to doing that, as the Member acknowledges, and I gave instructions to CCEA. I can confirm that the algorithm has now been published on the CCEA website. Anyone is free to download, print out or examine it. I am sure that not only members of the Education Committee but others will want to do that. <BR /> <BR />Rank order, which was provided by teachers, was used in this system. If the argument is that we see teachers' predictions as being the critical element, we cannot, on the one hand, say that we regard those as being completely watertight, but, on the other hand, rubbish rank orders, which have come from the same teachers.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mention has been made specifically of the algorithm, and I think that one of the problems that has arisen is that, when an algorithm is applied, particularly as part of a standardisation process, where it tends to fall down is when it is applied to very small groups. In England, they tried to artificially rectify that problem, with the end result that action was taken to apply standardisation to small groups, and the impact of that was to unfairly favour independent schools. In England, one of the criticisms that has been made is that the levels of improvement in results have been much greater in the public school or independent school system than across comprehensive schools. We have to be careful because, when interventions take place, they can sometimes create circumstances that lead to undesirable results.”
“That has happened in Northern Ireland and elsewhere for many, many years, so the concept that this has been simply grafted on this year would be inaccurate. They help to ensure that standards are maintained over time and that outcomes are fair and comparable across jurisdictions. In the UK, they have operated across the three jurisdictions that share GCSE, AS and A-level brands. Scotland has always adopted a different examination system, and, for instance, does not offer A levels. Importantly, standardisation ensures that qualifications awarded in Northern Ireland are recognised as comparable to the qualifications awarded elsewhere, and it is also the case that, when development of the processes was happening, all of the qualification bodies came to a very similar position on how awards were made.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our examination system is important not just to young people's future but to the future of the economy, so employers need to have confidence in those qualifications when recruiting staff. Therefore, there is a responsibility to ensure that the qualifications awarded this year are recognised as robust, reliable and as an accurate reflection of the abilities of our young people. That was why standardisation was part of the awarding arrangements developed. <BR /> <BR />Moderation and standardisation are important features of the qualifications awards process every year. Moderation and standardisation are not new processes; they are annual processes that are widespread across all countries where examinations take place.”
“If our qualifications are not seen as having any level of integrity, given our scale, that would put our students in a particularly difficult situation. The standardisation process at A level differed from England in that pupils' prior achievements at AS level provided the central focus of the standardisation process. It is important to point out that, in the majority of cases at A level, 58%, and 62%, I think, at AS level have ended up being the grades that students were issued with last week. Indeed, in 96·6% of cases, the students received either the same grade or there was one grade of a difference. Understandably, we have seen a focus on the roughly 3% where there has been a major divergence.”
“I am sure that Mr McNulty will probably be working that statement into his concluding remarks. <BR /> <BR />Alternative arrangements were put in place after careful consideration from a wide range of options put forward by CCEA, and that took account of the views of education stakeholders and experts. Those included head teachers, the Education and Training Inspectorate and the teaching unions. Everyone recognised that there was no perfect solution, but the arrangements were the best available given the circumstances. I wanted young people to have a solution that gave them an outcome to move to next stage of their lives in September but which also protected the integrity of our qualification system and past and future cohorts. <BR /> <BR />This is not simply an abstract concept. Northern Ireland is a small region.”
“It was also the case that the cohort from 2020, while facing very different situations, has to stand in a position that enables comparisons to be made with other years and also with future years, which will face some level of disruption. COVID meant that there was no established process for how to achieve this, so all processes had to developed at a pace.”
“We set out to provide a system that was fair and credible, and, as I will come to later, any system that we could have put in place would have had problems with fairness. Indeed, any action that could be taken in any direction to be fair to one group of individuals in the system may well ease the particular problems that that group faces but may have a corresponding and correlating action that makes it less fair for others, so, as much as possible, it was based on well-established examination processes, including standardisation to maintain standards over time.”
“<BR /> <BR />With schools closed, it was not possible to continue with the summer examination series, and therefore it was vital that consideration was given to how best to provide our learners with certainty about the way forward as soon as practically possible. There was the possibility of holding off until closer to exam time to take a decision, but that would have created uncertainty. The worst possible scenario would have been to start examinations and, in the middle of those examinations, have to take a completely different route. That meant that, in a very short window, we had to develop alternative means of awarding qualifications that would serve the long-term interests of our young people and ensure that they were able to progress this year into further or higher education or employment.”
“Among many other decisions, the Executive decided that it was necessary to close our schools for an unspecified period. There are some who accuse me of simply following what is done at Westminster in terms of the schools. Let me make it very clear: when we were keeping schools open, when the decision was taken to close, when advice was given on partial reopening in June and when the Executive passed that further advice in August, the advice was, on every occasion, in line with what the Public Health Agency said and in line with the position of the Chief Medical Officer. If we are to decide things on health grounds, we have to go to those experts.”
“Similarly, there was a very dramatic increase in the AS-level results, where the selective schools improved by 1·7% and, in the non-selective schools, there was an improvement of 7·3%. The gap closed from about 17% to about 12%. It is important that, while we deal with the difficulties that have arisen in this year's examinations, we do not downplay or diminish the anguish of young people, but it is also important that we acknowledge the successes for our young people, where they have happened, and pay tribute to the work that they have done. <BR /> <BR />In March, we faced unprecedented challenges as a result of the COVID-19 outbreak. I know that the word "unprecedented" has become a cliché, but being a cliché does not make it any less true.”
“Members have talked about the long tail of underachievement: in A levels — there was a similar drop in AS levels — the percentage of students who were awarded a U grade has gone down, even before the adjustments that will take place as a result of yesterday's announcement, from 1·7% to 0·9%. Fewer than 1% of people got a U grade. <BR /> <BR />There has been mention of the impact from a socio-economic point of view. While data on the particular impact on individuals who receive free school meals is not directly held, we saw last week, even on the basis of those results — there will be changes as a result of yesterday's announcement — that, in A levels, non-selective schools performed, relatively speaking, better than the grammar schools in terms of closure of the gap.”
“Let me say at the outset that the COVID pandemic has inflicted much suffering and hardship on our society, and many of our young people have had to face difficulties across different aspects of their lives. I understand those anxieties, and I can see that, for some, the A-level results process has been very upsetting. <BR /> <BR />We need to put this in the context of the results, even prior to the changes that were made, and it is important to put a few facts on the table. It is important to note that, when the A-level and AS-level results were announced last week, they were up from 2019. There was a rise of 1·6% in those achieving A* to C in A levels and, similarly, a rise of 2·2% in those achieving A to C in AS levels.”
“We will talk about systems, numbers and statistics, but I think that all of us acknowledge that, behind anything that we try to do, there are individuals. In particular, we are dealing with young people and their futures, and that has been foremost in my mind. Irrespective of whether different people here have disagreements about what I have done or whether they have taken a different point of view, I think that that is the case for the vast majority of people in the Chamber and beyond. I welcome the opportunity to deal with the issue and to debate it today and to look at the decisions that have been made.”
“Before we get into the meat of the debate, Mr Speaker, I welcome you back from your isolation. I also pass on to the SDLP my condolences in relation to the passing of John Hume. I appreciate that there will be an opportunity at a later date for that to be dealt with in a much longer and more appropriate manner, but I felt that it was important to put that on record. <BR /> <BR />It has been useful to know that, largely speaking, given the advice that the Speaker gave at the beginning of the debate that many young people would be watching the Assembly, perhaps for the first time, the tone of the debate has been calm and sensible on what is, potentially, a very emotive issue. There may be some exceptions to that tone, but, broadly speaking, that has been the case across the Chamber. That is important.”
“On a point of accuracy, in relation to resits, where they had been planned that is part of the formula which was taken into account for A levels where there was a resit of an AS. That is not simply those that took place as a resit, but for those that were planned, because there is a recognition that where there are resits, though it differs from subject to subject, generally speaking there will be some rise in the results as a result of a resit within each subject. That was part of the formula that was applied to A levels.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. In relation to BTEC grades, I understand that part of the problem there has been with awarding bodies, such Pearson and Cambridge. The regulations of boards that are outside Northern Ireland lie with the English regulators, similar to A levels that are awarded by bodies outside Northern Ireland. Obviously, we will make representations, but BTEC lies outside any actual direct control that I or the Economy Minister have. So, at best, we can act like others to try and push the issue, but we do not have control over it.”
“I understand that the intention was to ensure that that happened within the next couple of days so that everybody would be dealt with, but CCEA and others have to directly give that to UCAS, which will then forward that on to all universities so that the position will be uniform for all students in the university system.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. A number of schools are already in a position where they can indicate to young people. Indeed, a number of schools have made representations and made themselves available to make that known to young people. Regarding universities, this morning, UCAS convened all the awarding bodies and, indeed, the regulators to ensure that all information goes to it. I do not believe that that process had concluded by the time that today's Assembly meeting had started. Legally, all information has to go to UCAS.”
“Just to clarify that. The Member is referring specifically to the situation with the AS grade, and the grade will be the higher of the two. There are two reasons for that. The AS grade is based on 40% of the work whereas the other two grades represent the full two-year experience. However, we have also now reached a point at which everyone throughout the United Kingdom, where there was going to be complete competition, is now in exactly the same position. Indeed Wales, where reference was previously made to the AS grade, has now dropped that as an issue, and everybody is in the position of taking the higher of the two. I think that it would disadvantage our pupils if we were to muddy the waters by introducing that.”
“Just on that point, will the Member give way?”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the levels of hesitancy that was there for all of us was in not knowing close to the term what the prevailing conditions would be, for instance, with regard to community transmission. I think that we have seen, because of the measures that have been taken across all Departments, that Northern Ireland, while we can never be complacent, is in a very good place. We have now gone quite a number of days without deaths from COVID-19. That enables us to move forward, but, in doing so, I will speak to the Executive as a whole and get their approval but will also speak to individual Ministers and seek that direct medical advice to enable that to happen. The full-time return of education has to be the aim for all of us, because that is in the best interests of everyone.”
“What has been said is that I believe that we are on a trajectory to do that. I responded that my hope would be that there could be proposals put to the Executive that would enable that to happen. That would still be my aim with regard to that. In response to, I think, Mr McNulty's question, I indicated that this will be about some of the conditions that will apply. Also, where there is a cross-cutting issue, as there will be on the issue of school transport, I will speak to ministerial colleagues and will bring forward, potentially, proposals with regard to all of those aspects. That will be done in a manner that will be able to be actioned before the start of the new term. That is certainly my aim.”
“Therefore, we are trying to get holistic solutions that involve the direct school education, home and the support of the wider community. It is critical that we get a symbiosis between those.”
“There has been good work done, and I have tried to make things available. I did, for instance, a Zoom call as Parentkind NI had organised some representatives to speak to me, so I think that there will be a level of openness. There are established parent groups that need, probably, to have a level of direct input. However, what can be the best submission will not necessarily come from an organisation but could come from an individual. With regard to the approach that would be made, I would hope that the panel would be open to looking at any evidence that they receive from whatever source. However, it is critical that, as I mentioned, I think, in the statement, while a child is in school, on average, 13% of the time, the rest of the time is outside the school and most of that is in the home.”
“<BR /> <BR />With regard to trying to scope things, because it probably crosses the two Departments' positions, I will be very keen and will work with my colleague at Economy. That is particularly as we focus on 14 to 19 and as we focus in on issues such as digital skills and how we can ensure that young people, with regard to the careers advice they receive and their readiness for work, are taken into account, particularly in the preparation that they do through their schooling.”
“The Member makes a good point on the opportunities that are there, both in and outside universities. That is why it is critical — I think that I referred to it in an earlier point — that, as we see a recovery of the economy, there is a level of focus on the practical support being given to young people, particularly, for example, around issues around apprenticeships. There has got to be an investment in our young people. If we are being slightly cynical with regard to what I mentioned around career pathways, often the best and most lucrative career pathways do not have a university or academic-based view. To some extent, there has got to be a level of cultural shift with regard to that.”
“I thank the Member for his comments and the remarks that he made. I cannot pre-judge the panel's recommendations. There has to be a cognisance that this has to be looked at in a wider spectrum than simply the statistics of academic achievement.”
“There are many things that can intervene in people's lives but education is the one thing that can make a big difference to and change the direction of somebody’s life. I am very cognisant of that.”
“Very much so. Education can be a great life changer and life enabler. It is the case that we need education structures that enable the progression for those opportunities to be realised. The Member referred to his grandfather. My grandparents' generation, and even my parents' generation, despite their background, their ability and their intelligence, did not have the same opportunities as my generation. The Member and I are of a similar vintage, and the opportunities that were available for our generation were greater than those offered to preceding generations. Opportunities that are available now are probably greater than they were for our generation. <BR /> <BR />We have to make sure that that constant opportunity for improvement is there. Education can be a great life changer.”
“Clear guidance has already been given, and irrespective of how things move on from here, the vast bulk of that guidance will remain relevant in any circumstance. Arrangements for meals, hygiene and movement around schools will all apply. I have referred to the trajectory of travel. It is undoubtedly the case that we are on a trajectory to achieve a position in which we can have a full resumption, five days a week. That will be subject to the views of the Executive and will require their approval, and I hope to move on that fairly soon. It is important that we get movement on that before the resumption of the school term.”
“A key focus of the panel is to try to tackle that underachievement and improve things.”