Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“I touched on this in my remarks, and the Member talks a lot about this. Fair play to him for that. We have been criticised for talking about the Executive's responsibilities as well as the UK Government's. Will he agree that the Executive need to make much more progress on energy? For example, we do not have an energy support scheme for such things as heat pumps.”
“He has just said that it is not the result of the conflict. You can go on the Consumer Council website and track when prices of kerosene — home heating oil — spiked. You can look at countless websites that show what happened to the price of Brent crude. Does he not accept that oil prices spiked because of the bombing of Iran?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is it legitimate that we are the official Opposition? Is it legitimate that there is an accountability mechanism on the Executive? That is a simple question. I know that it is different in Dublin and in London, and we obviously agree on a constitutional outcome. Is it legitimate that there is an official Opposition holding the Executive to account?”
“As we have said, we would like to see the support package be improved, but we welcome the fact that there has been an intervention. Our point is that the support package should have come more quickly. Owing to the way in which business deadlines work in the House, we could not have included that, because we had to submit the motion a fortnight ago. We are trying to change how the business deadlines work. I just wanted to provide clarification, however.”
“It behoves all of us to take responsibility —”
“Do not simply profit from having Punch and Judy fights with each other and shifting blame, meaning that the public are gaslit — I use a word that was used before. The lack of responsibility-taking is absolutely shameful. <BR /> <BR />It does not have to be like this. At a time when the public are struggling, it behoves all of us to take responsibility locally, even if the UK Government are not delivering — especially if the UK Government are not delivering. We need to show people not only that these institutions can work but that politics can work. There are dark actors on this island and in this society who are trying to turn people away from democratic politics. Those of us who believe in democracy, power-sharing and the institutions need to prove that they can work. I say this to the public: they can work; do not lose hope.”
“Why was it not announced weeks ago? If the Executive can find £19 million to match-fund the home heating oil scheme, why could they not find a smaller amount to help the charities failed by the local growth fund? Again, that is connected to the irresponsibility of the UK Government. <BR /> <BR />More broadly, it illustrates a key point, one that we keep returning to about our politics: if Ministers act with shared purpose and take responsibility, they can get things done. I do not criticise the Executive for making that announcement; I do not say that they have limitless power or limitless finances. I say, "Take responsibility". People sent us here — they sent the two big parties in particular — to lead in government. Take responsibility, collectively.”
“I will not get any more time, so I am afraid that I cannot take loads of interventions. I am normally generous. <BR /> <BR />They are determined to shift responsibility for anything and everything on to a hapless and failing UK Government. <BR />Bad decisions or no decisions do not absolve London or the Executive from blame for doing nothing. As I said, they make it even more important that there is strong local leadership. <BR /> <BR />As I said to Deborah Erskine — I should have welcomed her back to the Chamber in slightly less tense circumstances than this; I hope that she and her baby are well — it is welcome that the Executive made a commitment to match-fund the original allocation of the scheme that was announced last week. It begs the question of why it was not announced weeks ago. That is what this is all about.”
“It is an intervention, not a speech. <BR /> <BR />We welcome the Communities Minister's making progress. I am about to come on to that. It took more than a month. That is not gaslighting; it is holding the Executive to account. <BR /> <BR />Take some responsibility. You have executive power. You ask people to vote for you. Your two parties ask people to vote for them. Do not shirk responsibility. We are the Opposition; it is our job to hold you to account. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the leaderless, rudderless UK Government made matters worse with their slow response and contradictory utterances. It was utterly unhelpful for the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State to put out information that was unhelpful and contradictory. To be absolutely clear, there are Ministers and parties here who are determined to shift responsibility —.”
“Is it any wonder that so many of our people hold our devolved politics in such contempt when, at a time of real crisis in their lives, their locally devolved elected Government waste weeks in pointless rows and blame shifting, rather than working together to help them? <BR /> <BR />I will give way briefly.”
“Rather than working together for the common good, as the Pledge of Office requires of them and all of us, and taking collective responsibility for helping people, the DUP was clear about where blame lay for the lack of help: it was the Shinners. Of course, Sinn Féin was equally clear that it was the Brits.”
“Where are the communications with petrol wholesalers and retailers to warn against profiteering? Perhaps they happened, but I did not see them. We were not told about them. There were not reams of statements in the House about it. Where was the urgency in designing and announcing a scheme to spend the £17 million, which, I agree, is not enough, to support families with home heating oil? The priority for the main Executive parties was not taking responsibility or leading; it was ensuring that someone else got the blame for not acting. <BR /> <BR />Do not get me wrong: the UK Government needed to be pressurised, but the Executive needed to take responsibility rather than simply shifting blame.”
“This is a point that I will come back to: if you believe that the UK Government are inept or incompetent or simply do not prioritise the people of the North — we in the SDLP agree with that — that does not exempt the Executive from doing their work; it makes it more important that they do their work. It makes it more important that they speak with one voice. It makes it more important that they take responsibility, not less. If the Labour Government and Starmer — a master of not taking responsibility, as we have found out in recent days — are not taking responsibility for the people of Northern Ireland, the people in the Assembly and the Executive had better damn well do so. <BR /> <BR />Where were the urgent summits with consumer groups, trade unions, agriculture and business representative bodies?”
“They have a brass neck. It took the First Minister and the deputy First Minister more than five weeks to say a thing at the centre of devolved government. They are hardly well placed to talk about being decisive and acting without delay. To repeat, it is not wrong for the Executive to say that they want and need more help from the UK Government; in fact, it is a core part of devolved government. That is how the highly centralised UK state, which, by the way, I obviously aspire not to be a part of, is set up, whether we like it or not. However, that does not stop the Executive devoting maximum resource to planning their response.”
“Not yet, but I will at some point. <BR /> <BR />Let me offer this as an example. Trump and Netanyahu began bombing Iran on 28 February. Prices spiked immediately, and, as I said, they fed through to forecourts and kerosene suppliers immediately. When was the first official statement from the Executive Office? It was Friday week ago, on 10 April. The First Minister and deputy First Minister's statement, which called on the UK Government to take action, said that:”
“The responsibility for, for example, fuel duty obviously rests with the British Government, not the Executive, but that cannot be an excuse for the complete abdication of responsibility, which is what we have seen from the Executive.”
“They know that no one can predict Trump's actions or control energy markets, but, given how remote we are from the concerns of decision-makers in London — we all know that; it is repeated many times by Members in the Chamber — they had a right to expect leadership and responsibility from the Executive. However, the answer from the Northern Ireland Executive for weeks on end has been next to nothing. It has been non-existent. Computer says no. Talk to the hand, or perhaps talk to London. It has been, quite simply, a complete abdication of responsibility. <BR /> <BR />To be clear, the Executive do not have limitless financial firepower to deal with the consequences. We in the Opposition have never said otherwise.”
“One might reasonably ask why the price rises were felt from the Strait of Hormuz to Belfast forecourts, but that is a debate for another day. The price of home heating oil doubled and has remained high. It has now been £1,000 for 900 litres for more than a month. That spike happened faster and has already reached a higher peak than that created by Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine. It is not just households. Small businesses and farmers are, as we know, particularly exposed to increases in the cost of diesel and fertiliser. Community groups, churches and sports groups all will face extraordinary pressures from the price rises. <BR /> <BR />Listing those pressures is not going to do people any good. What they want to know from those whom they elect is what is being done to support them.”
“Ordinary people in the North and everywhere have been left feeling helpless and powerless to respond to the insanity and immorality unfolding in the Middle East. Given the huge increase in tourism in the Gulf States and migration there for work, many families have been directly touched, because their relatives have found themselves sheltering from missiles. As we know — it is why we are having the debate — that insanity has had an impact on the costs that face everyday people, including ordinary workers getting to their jobs and families filling their oil tanks. The spike in international oil prices from between $60 and $70 a barrel to well over $100 has been seen on every forecourt in the country; indeed, on the first Monday after the strikes started, I saw the price rise between my drives to and from Stormont.”
“We do not yet know what the conclusion of that war will be, but most serious people agree that the decision of Trump's America and Netanyahu's Israel to begin an aerial bombing campaign without a clear plan is one of the most idiotic and catastrophic military fiascos of the century. It is not just idiotic but immoral and illegal. It includes the killing of hundreds of schoolgirls in Minab and the obscene, genocidal threats of the madman Trump to wipe out an entire civilisation. Meanwhile, the Israeli Government have added to the list of their atrocities committed in Gaza more war crimes in south Lebanon.”
“I have to say that it is shameful that, when we are having the first detailed, substantive and dedicated debate on the cost-of-living crisis created by the issues in the Middle East, there is such paltry participation from Executive parties. Some Executive parties have only one or two Members in the Chamber. In a month in which the public are losing trust in this institution and can see Members getting a large pay rise, there will be outrage at the pathetic attendance by Members of Executive parties at today's debate. Nevertheless, the Opposition are here to put forward the case that the people want to be made. <BR /> <BR />In exactly one week, the conflict in Iran will be two months old.”
“You cannot, on the one hand, say that you introduced it and, on the other hand, declaim the revenue that you claim to have saved from it. People require us to be honest with them, be they healthcare workers or family members who are, perhaps, experiencing severe medical issues, going to an oncology ward or have a terminal illness. We would much prefer to have seen this implemented years ago, but it is going to be delayed again. It is incumbent on us to finally grow up a bit in our politics and reflect on why people have such low levels of trust in this institution.”
“People will draw their own conclusions about the situation. Sinn Féin leads the Executive jointly with the DUP. We hold every Executive party robustly to account. That is our job, and I make no apology for it; we, collectively, make no apology for that. That is why Colin McGrath put down an amendment to improve transparency around the Bill. I know that it makes people uncomfortable, but it is our job. <BR /> <BR />For the record, you said that it was a Sinn Féin Bill, which was brought in in 2022 and which then became an Act. It certainly was, but it was also a Sinn Féin Finance Minister who counted the savings from not implementing it in the revenue-raising plan, which they submitted to the British Treasury.”
“You cannot never take responsibility for the power that you have. That is part of the reason why our politics are in the state that they are in. There is a particular challenge for those of us who are trying to advocate for a new Ireland, because we need to be credible. We are putting forward a proposition for change on this island. That requires credibility and taking responsibility, not this kind of Monty Python behaviour. <BR /> <BR />I give way to Mr McGuigan.”
“— pretend that you have no responsibility for it. I will give way to Mr McGuigan in a second.”
“The straight answer is yes, but, of course, there is always context and there are always circumstances. My answer is a yes, but, since I allowed the intervention, let me explain in detail what I mean by that. I think yes, but, of course, it is then disingenuous to come to the House and act as through you had nothing do with this, that your party has no awareness of it, that you are not leading the Executive and that you do not have the First Minister and the Finance Minister, who have not dissented from this, and —”
“That is from the Department of Finance, which has been led by two successive Sinn Féin Finance Ministers, who are scoring that revenue from delaying the Bill. Do not therefore come into the Chamber and discredit politics and devolution by saying, "Nothing to do with us. We have nothing to do with this. We deplore this awful Bill, which we allowed on to the Floor, and whose revenue we have already scored in a document published by the Department of Finance", because it is not serious and it is not credible. People who were promised the change deserve honesty and responsibility from our politicians. I am now happy to give way to Mrs Dillon.”
“If Members go to appendix D of the document, which, as I said, the Department of Finance, under the then Finance Minister, Caoimhe Archibald, published, they will see that it sets out detailed tables on revenue-raising options. That is the Executive saying, "This is the revenue we're raising to meet our commitments under the Executive restoration package". If one scrolls down, one gets to a line that states "Car Parking Charges", and there is a figure of £6 million attached. In the comments, it is stated:”
“I will in one second. There is a question about previous statements that have been made. The previous Finance Minister, Caoimhe Archibald, published a document in October 2024 after the Executive restoration settlement in February 2024. Part of that agreement with the British Government concerned revenue-raising options. Some Members here who were on the Finance Committee then and who are on it now will know that the Department of Finance published a document entitled 'Budget Sustainability Plan'. It was the then Finance Minister and the broader Executive's plan to raise revenue as per that agreement. By the way, that is still live Executive policy.”
“That credibility problem gets worse when we say such things and when we claim that we are not responsible for our actions. That is part of the reason why the public have such low trust in us. There is a question not only about how the Bill made it to the Floor —”
“I am not 100% sure that there would have been a Division or that Sinn Féin would have voted against the Bill at Second Stage had we not forced a Division. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we challenge some of the remarkable statements that have been made today. The Bill could not have made it to the House had the First Minister and her party not agreed to it in the Executive. That is a fact. I am happy to take an intervention if someone wants to correct me, but that has been established as fact. The First Minister and, indeed, the junior Minister who sponsored the Bill in the previous mandate agreed to this Bill. Their party are now saying, "This is awful. How did this awful Bill make it to the House?". We have a credibility problem in the Assembly.”
“Sometimes what goes on in this place makes 'Fawlty Towers' look like a documentary, because the situation is well and truly Fawltyesque, Pythonesque or, perhaps, Kafkaesque. We have arrived at a preposterous situation. The last thing that we did in a previous mandate was make a promise to healthcare workers, staff of all kinds — medical staff, porters and ancillary staff — and people suffering from illnesses and their immediate families that they would not have to face the burden of parking charges. The final legislative act before we left the Chamber in 2022 was to pass that Bill, and the first act when we came back, other than to pass a routine Budget Bill, was to delay its implementation. That is preposterous: it is not acceptable, and it needs to be called out, and that is what the official Opposition have done.”
“I was not going to speak, since my colleague Colin McGrath covered the issues fairly comprehensively, but I felt the need to do so, given that a particular area of the Bill has not yet been reflected on. There were comments made by some Members earlier that can be contextualised by a document that was published in 2024. <BR /> <BR />We were fairly scathing of the Bill when it was introduced and when it was debated at its Second Reading. That is not because we think that the Health Minister is being cynical. I appreciate the position that he has been put in. The other day, however, I was at home watching a television programme with my eight-year-old son. I was trying to get him not to watch YouTube. We were talking about something, and I managed to convince him to watch an old comedy. We watched an episode of 'Fawlty Towers'.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. For the record, I agree with the Minister's position on opposing the Question that clause 20 stand part of the Bill. I will have a tutorial with some of my party members, whom I lecture about the legislative process, and will remind myself to pay attention as clauses are worked through.”
“However, as the official Opposition, we will use every opportunity open to us to table amendments and make change in this society, because the public are frustrated and crying out for that. I make absolutely no apology for that. <BR /> <BR />We welcome the Bill's main provisions, so far as they go. We support them and look forward to the Bill's progress today.”
“<BR /> <BR />Without challenging any judgement made by the Speaker's office, as the Opposition, we had hoped to make meaningful change using the Bill, in part because there is deep frustration in Northern Ireland about the slowness of change here. The Bill is full of very — very — modest changes that are mostly technical. You would be hard-pressed to go out and tell your constituents that it will achieve dramatic change. It is legal and technical tidying-up, important though all that is. We know that both the creation of an independent environmental protection agency, which is hugely important to people in this society, and, indeed, minimum unit pricing have not been allowed. We had attempted to table an amendment: it was not allowed. That is deeply unfortunate. I am not, in any way, challenging the judgement of the Speaker.”
“It means that there will be a power in the future to bring forward secondary legislation allowing for a limited, small charge for the cost of processing, should an Infrastructure Minister wish to do so, rather than charging for the cost of journeys. Were such a regulation to be brought forward, it would be voted on in the Assembly, and Members could give their views. That important change happened after Finance Committee pressure. There are other really important measures that will hopefully strengthen the ability, for example, of the Executive Office to do work on integration and violence against women and girls. It is our hope that those legal changes will make it easier for civil servants and Ministers to make positive change in that area.”
“We should have had more regular updates to financial provisions legislation, so the Bill is welcome. The Bill was added on to in a slightly kind of lean-to, granny-flat way with administrative provisions, so it is unwieldy. I suppose that it is fair enough of the Minister to make the Bill available for various administrative provisions, lots of which are necessary, sensible and uncontroversial. <BR /> <BR />Other provisions required more interrogation. There were meaningful and real questions around SmartPasses. Lots of people wanted to understand whether the Bill meant that SmartPasses were, effectively, no more: it does not mean that.”
“<BR /> <BR />Having completed its scrutiny, the Committee was content with the Bill's clauses, subject to the aforementioned amendments. The Committee views the Bill as important tidying-up legislation that regularises existing practices and improves transparency while maintaining appropriate Assembly oversight. <BR /> <BR />I will now make a few comments in a party capacity, as leader of the Opposition. We welcomed the arrival of the Administrative and Financial Provisions Bill in part because, as someone who has been on the Finance Committee when the Assembly has been sitting for most of the past six years, I know that there has been consistent frustration at the use of what is termed the "black box", which is effectively a catch-all term that allows large amounts of spending to happen in a legally unusual way.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 20 relates to the transfer of responsibility for appointing the external auditor of the NIAO from the Department of Finance to the Audit Committee and was subject to significant scrutiny by the Finance Committee and the Audit Committee. While the Committee supported the principle of strengthening Assembly oversight, it recognised concerns raised by the Audit Committee about capacity, resources and governance. As a result, the Minister has given notice of his intention to oppose the Question that clause 20 stand part of the Bill. We thank him for that. Indeed, some of the debates on clause 20 were useful cross-reference points in our scrutiny of the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council Bill.”
“The Committee undertook scrutiny of the justification for that increase and recognised the Department's commitment to notify the Assembly and the Committee when advances are made, and we were content with the clause in light of the additional information provided. It is extremely important to underline during the debate and put it on the record that the Committee's agreement to the clause relating to increases in advances from the Consolidated Fund was, it is fair to say, contingent on getting timely information from the Department of Finance before those claims are made, where that is practical. In some cases, it will happen suddenly, but we need timely information on the use of the power. We do not want to hear about it weeks or months later.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 12 enables the Housing Executive to undertake tenancy fraud investigations on behalf of a housing association on a cost-recovery basis, while clause 13 transfers responsibilities for setting councillors' basic pay allowance from councils to the Department for Communities. I am sure that that subject will attract significant commentary in the future. The Committee considered the provisions alongside additional scrutiny undertaken by the Committee for Communities and was content with each of the clauses. <BR /> <BR />Clause 18 relates to increasing the limit on advances from the Consolidated Fund from 2% to 4%.”
“There may be those who read the Bill and think that the language is a little too expansive, but the Committee was assured that the powers are subject to sufficient checks and balances in further clauses. <BR /> <BR />Clauses 11 to 13 relate to Education and Communities provisions. Clause 11 addresses funding for postgraduate educational psychology training. The Minister's amendment No 1 addresses funding for bursary schemes for teacher shortages and school leadership development. The Minister touched on that in his opening remarks. The Committee received a written briefing from the Department of Education on that amendment, as well as a further amendment to the provision. Both the Finance and Education Committees were content with the clause and for the amendment to be made.”
“The Committee considered carefully the breadth of certain powers and the safeguards in place, and members recognised that many of the clauses place existing expenditure on a clearer statutory footing, replacing reliance on annual Budget Acts. In light of the evidence received, the Committee for Finance and the Committee for the Executive Office raised no objections to the clauses standing part of the Bill. It is important to say that we interrogated the provisions in the relevant clauses considerably. On first reading, they contain expansive powers for the Executive Office, particularly on spending to tackle violence against women and girls, which, rightly, is an Executive priority. Those powers are then constrained in further clauses later in the Bill.”
“Any future change to how the administrative costs of SmartPass fares are recovered via a fee will have to be voted on by the Assembly. In future, that will not be able to be done simply via a pen stroke from the Infrastructure Minister. Subject to that amendment, the Committee was content with clause 17. <BR /> <BR />Clauses 6 to 10 and clause 14 relate to Executive Office provisions giving statutory authority for services in relation to victims and survivors; asylum and immigration integration support; the development of public appointments; the delivery of the ending violence against women and girls strategic framework; and flexibility in the appointment of the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse.”
“Members considered thoroughly the potential impact of any fee on vulnerable users, the level of Assembly oversight and the importance of clear communication that the charges were for the recovery of administration costs and were not revenue raising. In consultation with the Committee for Infrastructure and following a briefing from Infrastructure officials, the Committee felt that the regulations in the Bill should be agreed via the affirmative resolution procedure in the Assembly. The Committee welcomed the Minister's agreement to amend the clause to increase Committee oversight of the policy. The Committee commends the Finance and Infrastructure Ministers for their approach to making that amendment. We will vote on that today. It is a positive step forward that the Finance Committee was able to contribute.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 5 and clauses 15 to 17 relate to fee setting, charging and powers for Tourism NI in marine licensing activities. The Committee acknowledged the rationale for improved cost recovery, while also acknowledging the importance of proportionality and transparency in the operation of such powers. Again, neither the Committee for the Economy nor the Committee for Finance objected to the clauses. <BR /> <BR />Clause 17 provides the Department for Infrastructure with the power to charge a fee for the issuing or replacement of concessionary travel passes. That received considerable scrutiny.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will speak to the main groupings of clauses considered by the Committee, if that is OK, Mr Deputy Speaker. Clauses 1 to 4 relate to economic and financial support powers. The clauses confer powers on the Department of Finance and the Department for the Economy in relation to investment funding, economic assistance, higher education loans and employment and training provision. The Committee paid particular attention to ensuring that the powers were appropriately framed to regularise existing practice and to address issues identified by the Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO). The Committee consulted the Committee for the Economy, and neither Committee had objections to the clauses being part of the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a number of clauses fell within the remit of other Statutory Committees, the Committee for Finance requested that those Committees provide additional scrutiny of provisions relevant to their remit. I will not be so bold as to rate other Committees on how well they engaged with our legislative process. Suffice it to say, the Committee for Finance has completed exhaustive scrutiny of the Bill, despite the fact that it took in provisions relating to the remits of other Departments and relatively limited direct responsibility changes for the Department of Finance itself. Committee Stage provided an exemplar of cross-Committee working and scrutiny. Although the Committee for Finance was ultimately responsible for the scrutiny of the Bill, I record the Committee's thanks for the engagement of other Statutory Committees.”
“It sought written evidence from key stakeholders, carried out a public survey, commissioned research and took oral evidence from officials from the Department of Finance, the Department for Infrastructure and the Executive Office. On behalf of the Committee, I thank all of those who provided written and oral evidence. Their input was greatly appreciated. <BR /> <BR />While public engagement was limited, perhaps predictably with a relatively technical Bill, the Committee is confident that detailed and appropriate scrutiny was carried out in view of that technical nature. Despite the relatively technical and, at times, legalistic nature of the Bill, the measures are extremely important and required detailed scrutiny. I am confident that our Committee undertook that and did it insofar as we were able.”