Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Before I get on to more of the argument for the motion, it is important to say that the motion is not about the performance of specific First and deputy First Ministers; it is about the structure and design of the office and the fact that the bizarre differential in titles in an otherwise entirely joint office reinforces the arbitrary divisions in our politics and distracts from the real and important issues, some of which I just described. <BR /> <BR />On the day after International Women's Day, I acknowledge the fact that, whatever my profound criticisms of the performance of the Executive may be, we have First Ministers who have both sought to use their office to provide positive leadership in different ways. I say that genuinely. That is a reminder of why it was designed to be a joint office in the first place.”
“Separately, we have pressed for interventions from the Finance Minister and the Economy Minister on the huge pressures on family budgets created by the Trump-Israeli actions in Iran. It goes without saying that all those issues, along with the Rates Orders and the Budget Bill, which we will debate tomorrow, all ministerial Question Times and, indeed, the petition on the Knockbreda Road crossing that I have just submitted are infinitely more important than the presence of a single, non-capitalised word at the start of a title for a job that is otherwise entirely equal to the other job.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. First, I will pre-empt a comment that will probably be made by others in the course of the debate: the subject of the motion is not the most important thing that we will debate today; in fact, it is the least important thing that we will debate today. That is precisely the point. The question of who holds titles that have one word of difference but not one other substantive difference in role, responsibility or legal power should be the definition of a trivial matter. It is a distinction without a difference or, put another way, six of one and half a dozen of the other. <BR /> <BR />Today in Opposition time, we will debate the challenges of SEN classroom assistant provision and the all-island economy.”
“I hope that the Minister will listen to residents, publish the consultation results, outline a clear timeline for delivery and get on with finally delivering the Knockbreda Road crossing, which will unlock the opening of the back entrance into Cherryvale park, a treasured community asset, particularly for families. The people of Rosetta have waited long enough: let us get this done.”
“Despite those benefits, and despite support from Belfast City Council, including from local councillors from multiple parties, the Department for Infrastructure has been dragging its feet. It commissioned yet another consultation last year, the findings of which are yet to be published. DFI has spent £17,000 on the project thus far. I and my colleagues Claire Hanna MP and Councillor Séamas de Faoite have been working for years to ensure the delivery of the crossing as part of a wider package that also included the crossing that was successfully delivered on the Ravenhill Road. <BR /> <BR />Our petition reads as follows:”
“I am delighted to present this petition to the Assembly on behalf of the people of Rosetta, Wynchurch and that wider part of south-east Belfast. They have become increasingly frustrated at the lack of progress in installing a pedestrian crossing at the Knockbreda Road, which, as well as improving safety for the many families who live there, would allow the back gate into Cherryvale park to be opened. I am delighted that 642 people have signed our petition, which shows the strength of feeling locally. <BR /> <BR />Since I became an MLA, I have championed improved road safety, better connectivity and more access to green spaces. This crossing would achieve all three of those things, as well as the opening of the back gate into Cherryvale park.”
“Not to put too fine a point on it, Sinn Féin TDs call for action from the Irish Government south of the border, where there is proportionately less reliance on home heating oil than in the North. Let us see the Executive act. They got additional money from London last week. They cannot fix all the problems, but they can take some action. At the minute, nothing is happening, and we need support.”
“Secondly, we need to start thinking about how and when we regulate home heating oil. There are lots of great family-owned businesses across Northern Ireland that provide home heating oil, and I am not casting aspersions on them, but we know that the market is unregulated. Lots of people literally stick their garden broom into their oil tank to test how much oil they have. We need the market to be properly regulated. <BR /> <BR />Lastly, we need progress from the Economy Minister on an energy transition that means that we are less reliant on unstable parts of the world for fossil fuels. That is completely critical, but we have not had it yet from the Economy Minister or the Finance Minister. There have been warm words and statements about what should happen. but we need action.”
“It could be along the lines of previous discretionary support schemes. For example, eligibility could be along the same lines as for those who get rate relief or pension credit. The Executive need to respond, however, because we have the lowest household disposable income in the UK. We also have the biggest exposure to energy shocks, because of our reliance on unregulated home heating oil.”
“The home heating oil market here is utterly unregulated. Households already face real squeezes after years of inflation and, in many cases, slower than necessary pay rises. <BR /> <BR />What to do about it? The Executive need to coordinate a response and stand up for hard-pressed households. I am not saying that the Executive can control what happens in the Middle East — clearly, they cannot — but there are short-term, medium-term and long-term actions that need to be taken. <BR /> <BR />First, we call on the Executive at least to explore a response that helps the hardest-pressed households with energy costs. Thankfully, we are out of the worst of winter, but people still need to heat their homes, and the most vulnerable will face a squeeze. We have therefore asked for some kind of discretionary support.”
“I will speak about a subject that is of the utmost urgency for households, workers and families across the North, and that is the price of energy. <BR /> <BR />Donald Trump and the state of Israel decided to bomb Iran from the sky. I am not here to explain why that is a bad, illegal and idiotic thing to do; I am here to say, however, that members of the public, two thirds of whom in the region use home heating oil as their domestic fuel, already face severe pressure on their budgets. In the past week alone, the price of home heating oil has almost doubled, but, according to the aggregation done by the Consumer Council and the data available on websites such as BoilerJuice, the cost of filling an oil tank will probably more than double very soon. That is putting real pressure on households.”
“Minister, will you find that money for the community and voluntary sector?”
“It is important, Mr Deputy Speaker. Minister, will you find that money next year?”
“— imposed by the British Government on the local growth fund. Will you make the commitment that you find that money?”
“<BR /> <BR />Your colleagues heard from the community and voluntary sector last week, and I met representatives of Action Mental Health. They, along with others in the community and voluntary sector, have said that £15 million will help such organisations to deal with the costs —”
“Minister, thank you for coming to the Chamber to give us this statement. It is welcome and prompt, and you are to be commended for that. It is important to say, Minister, that most of us were not expecting such a volume of funding. The public will be looking on, and, while many of us agree that we need a different funding model overall and that this place should be funded differently in devolved terms, many of those people will say that, although we are getting another £200 million-plus next year, you have come to the Chamber to tell us that that is still not enough. That feels like a strategic communications decision on your part, rather than you taking real responsibility. I therefore ask you, Minister, to take real responsibility in the next financial year, given that you now have £200 million-plus in RDEL.”
“Minister, I appreciate your positive tone, but the truth is that, in response to a question for written answer, you told me that it would be 2033 before the Glider phase 2 would be delivered. That is at least six years later than the public expected it. People on the Antrim Road in north Belfast and, particularly, in my case, people on the Ormeau Road in south Belfast expected the project to be transformational, but it is ultimately just a bendy bus. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you talked about funding challenges, but the spring Supplementary Estimates this year reveal that you handed back £5 million that was supposed to be dedicated to Glider. Can the public in south and north Belfast have any confidence that the scheme will ever be delivered?”
“Minister, this is clearly the most urgent and grave priority facing the Executive; we agree with you on that. You have repeatedly said that certain parties are blocking progress in the Executive, which is why we have said that you and your party should perhaps have asked for specific guarantees up front. Given that we have just heard from Minister Givan about all the things that he is doing, without Executive approval, to change exams in Northern Ireland, are there measures that you can take, which you are not yet taking, that do not require Executive approval?”
“Minister, people will take time to digest that extremely detailed statement, but the upshot is that you want to move towards a much more linear — and, therefore, more pressurised — exam structure for young people. That was clearly not the response that you got from young people or parents. What do you say to those young people who told you that they did not want this, but you went ahead and did it anyway? <BR /> <BR />You mentioned the Republic of Ireland and England as examples. The Republic of Ireland is making the Leaving Cert more modular, not less modular. This appears to be a reheating of Michael Gove's reforms. To that end, given all the controversy about decisions that have or have not been made at the Executive, have any of those reforms been discussed around the Executive table?”
“The public just want an agreed local response on energy prices, on local people who are stuck in the Emirates and on other potential consequences, including refugees. Let us grow up and serve the public rather than party political interests.”
“The First Minister and deputy First Minister cannot even put together a clear statement of the local response without prejudice to their own political views on the rightness or wrongness of Trump's actions — I think that they are totally wrong, by the way — but that should not stop those who take a Pledge of Office, accept a salary and get driven here in a car every day from agreeing a local response so that the public can have some sense of local political accountability and local political leadership. However, those two parties never see the public good. <BR /> <BR />We just heard Mr Buckley stand up and bicker. We saw the First Minister do her own video yesterday, rather than agreeing with the deputy First Minister. The deputy First Minister tweeted yesterday about how awful Sinn Féin is.”
“Every one of us has a constituent or knows a friend or family member who is based in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates or elsewhere in the Middle East.”
“We know that many people from the North — British citizens, Irish citizens and both from every constituency — will struggle to get back from the Middle East. Those people and their families have real anxiety.”
“You have had your say, Mr Buckley. <BR /> <BR />They clearly prioritise party political bickering over the public good. We are less than a year since the publication of the COVID public inquiry report, which talked about how political parties prioritise. At the time of COVID, the First Minister and deputy First Minister, again from the DUP and Sinn Féin, prioritised their party political interests over the public good, with the DUP trying to use a petition of concern to block public health measures. It is happening again. <BR /> <BR />Between leaving home for work yesterday and driving home after work, I saw petrol prices go up. Our society is heavily car-reliant because we are so rural. Nearly 70% of our population relies on home heating oil.”
“It is completely incoherent, dysfunctional and unacceptable that the First Minister and deputy First Minister cannot, between themselves, agree anything approaching a joint statement. That is the fault of both the First Minister and deputy First Minister and their parties, because they clearly prioritise party political —.”
“I want to talk about the events in the Middle East, specifically the local response. I will follow on from remarks made by Mr Buckley a few minutes ago. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, I stood up and gave my party's view on the deeply destabilising, illegal and reckless acts by the madman Trump and his Government that are creating more conflict in the Middle East. That was my party position. Other parties gave their position. It is totally legitimate for political parties and their leaders to set out political views. However, the First Minister and deputy First Minister, collectively, are in charge of devolved government here. It is their responsibility to set out a response to the issues that pertain to the community living in Northern Ireland as well as set out legitimate party political responses to the conflict.”
“Sorry for fumbling there as I asked for an intervention. <BR /> <BR />Minister, given that the Irish Government helped to fund the Universities Ireland report, might they fund even something like a fact sheet or a training pack for careers advisers up here, simply to say, "This is how to make CAO approachable and straightforward"? Clearly, that is one of the issues. People think that it is handier to go down the UCAS route.”
“That keeps people out of third-level education rather than incentivising them to go into it, so I am not sure that that is an answer either. <BR /> <BR />I strongly support the motion. I want to see people travel all over this island and, indeed, the island next door to go to university. I am keen to hear from the Minister on whether she has an update. I might not be able to hear it all, because I have to go to a different call, but I will check Hansard afterwards to see what she said. I am pleased to support the motion.”
“We want to give people maximum opportunity and incentive to come back and make their life here. If that means studying on this island, that is great, but, ultimately, it is about giving young people maximum opportunity. <BR /> <BR />Since it has come up several times, I will talk about the MaSN cap. I agree that there is a challenge in student numbers in Northern Ireland. I do not disagree with that — it would be mad to disagree with it — but it is glib to simply say, "We'll increase fees". Look at the scandal that is unfolding in Britain around student fees: you have something that was supposed to be designed to look like a graduate tax, but the taxation structure is levied in such a way that it is an extraordinary debt burden that is unfairly placed on people who make that choice.”
“I did that not because I made a big decision that I was leaving and did not want to come back but because, like a lot of people, I left when I was still young, after which my life then started in a different place. Those are the decisions that one makes.”
“Other universities south of the border are available, as you, Mr Deputy Speaker, are well able to tell us. There is DCU, the University of Galway and the University of Limerick. Atlantic Technological University has been mentioned, and Dundalk Institute of Technology is now connected to Queen's, I am proud to say. There are terrific institutions across the island. I do not think that it is better that a student go to one university over another, be it one on this island or one on the island next door, but I want us to remove barriers to opportunities for young people. <BR /> <BR />I have talked a lot about my experience of leaving here and staying away for 20 years.”
“I went to university in Scotland, which I do not regret at all; I had a great time. Lots of people from Northern Ireland travel across the water, as they say, to university; in my case, it was 25 years ago. The sad thing is that the opportunity to move to a different part of this island to study has become harder, not easier. <BR /> <BR />I want to know from the Minister whether she can give us an update today. That involves asking her what the Irish Government are doing. A year or two ago, we had a big report from universities. It was funded through the Shared Island initiative by Universities Ireland. I am not clear what progress has been made since then. The report was publicised with bells and whistles, but I want to know what is happening in universities south of the border, not just Trinity and UCD.”
“There is, however, clearly a huge barrier in the way of Northern students applying to universities in the South. It is an artificial barrier that does not need to be in place. It is structurally harder to apply. As people have said, the UCAS process is timed differently, and how it is aligned means that people will often simply take, as it were, the bird in the hand rather than wait for confirmation of a place on a course that they might like to have done in Dublin, Cork or Galway or wherever. That is not right, because sometimes going to that city and doing that course would have been the best thing for them. That artificial barrier exists, but it really does not have to. I am someone who started to go through the CAO process but then took the bird in the hand.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are a few themes on which I want to pick up. As David Honeyford has just said, it is really sad and regrettable that, over the past decade or two, as we have moved through the post-Good Friday Agreement age, when we were supposed to be interacting and engaging much more on the island, the number of Northern students going South has fallen. Something really important that was preserved through the worst of the conflict was the fact that pupils from all traditions up here regularly went down South, especially to Trinity and UCD. Numbers have since fallen, but, in the past year or two, there has been a significant increase in the number of students from the South coming North, and that is welcome. I know that because Queen's University is in the heart of my constituency; indeed, it is next to my constituency office.”
“I am pleased to speak to the motion. I am really glad that it was tabled and am pleased that there is a degree of consensus. I am, however, slightly confused by the Ulster Unionist position, to be honest. I hope that we can arrive at consensus and that we hear from the Minister about where she is with the policy and about the latest that she has heard from the Irish Government. <BR /> <BR />Third-level education is a huge privilege, a treasure and something that is economically critical, notwithstanding all the doom-laden warnings about automation; in fact, lots of the things that people study in third-level education, including the humanities and the arts, will be extraordinarily important. I hope that we can reassert the primacy of human knowledge and human ability over the idea that we will all be automated out of employment.”
“The Member makes his points robustly. We support Irish neutrality, and we speak for ourselves. Those points are clear. In relation to parties' records, does he stand over his party's support for Brexit?”
“On a point of order, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I am all for robust debate, so I am loath to draw attention to this, but the Member accused someone of threatening violence. Were those remarks to be made outside the Chamber, they would be actionable. I ask the Speaker or, indeed, the Member to reflect on that. The words were quite grave.”
“Thank you. I appreciate that. <BR /> <BR />The Member says that the text of our motion disregards the principle of consent. The only way in which there can be a new Ireland is through a referendum in which the people of Northern Ireland give their consent. That is the principle of consent, unless there is one that I have missed. Genuinely, I am intrigued.”
“I do not think that you can be neutral in relation to Ukraine, and it is disappointing that certain parties — Sinn Féin, obviously — voted against humanitarian support for Ukraine. However, I am clear that the best way to resolve those issues is to be at the table, to be negotiating and to be delivering the best for all the people of this continent. <BR /> <BR />Brexit was a disaster. The consequences have been bad for all of us. The best future for Northern Ireland is in a new Ireland back inside the European Union. Even if you do not agree with me on all those things, there are so many huge opportunities for our people, our young people, our workers, our businesses and our communities to engage with Europe and to start with delivering benefits from the Irish presidency. I commend the motion to the House.”
“The media do not always report it, and it does not work well in clips on social media. However, for those of us who choose to do democratic politics, ultimately, that is what it should be about: using the boring, geeky stuff of politics and diplomacy to improve the lives of people and to prioritise that above bombing, conflict and confrontation, a path that will only ever lead to more conflict. I accept that there are questions about European security. Those debates are going on, and it is disappointing that some parties have not engaged in them. <BR /> <BR />I believe that Ireland should be a neutral country. That does not mean that you have to be politically neutral.”
“It is also an opportunity to restate the importance of the serious, grinding work of politics, diplomacy and improving people's lives through democratic politics rather than simply through conflict. That is a really important message for us to think about today. The presidency of the EU involves hammering out communiqués; it involves difficult compromises and slow progress. In the past, Irish presidencies have made progress on things such as the new membership in the EU expansion that happened just over 20 years ago and, back in 1990, around the criteria for the single European currency. Those things progressed for the people of this continent peacefully. That is how we moved on from the appalling tragedy of conflict in the 20th century. It is not always glamorous; sometimes, it is very dull.”
“Obviously, I do not agree, but I say to the Member that, if he thinks that anybody in the South or in Europe is not engaging or is not listening, I am sure that they will take his call. His constituency colleague who is sitting behind him is a former MEP and is well connected in the European Union. I promise you that they will take meetings; you can engage; you can make that case; and it will be done on a respectful basis. I encourage you to do that, and it would be much better if we had an EU office in Belfast, so that they can hear all of us, notwithstanding the constitutional difference. <BR /> <BR />Let me come back to this point: the presidency is a significant opportunity for the people of the North: all of us.”
“I will give way, briefly, but I have progress to make.”
“<BR /> <BR />European Union Council presidencies are often about the boring, grinding work of getting agendas agreed, agreeing communiqués and getting things moved on.”
“<BR /> <BR />In addition, included in our motion — sometimes, we are accused of simply looking at one agenda: the North/South, all-Ireland agenda, of which we are very proud, and, ultimately, the new Ireland agenda — is the UK's relationship with the EU. I am somebody who, in a previous professional life, actually attempted to do something that would have been in the interests of the UK and, indeed, unionism and keep the UK in the EU. I did not succeed, and it is to your cost, I am afraid. My constitutional argument has benefited from it: yours has not. I am sorry to be direct about that. It is hugely to the advantage of the UK to engage in the Irish presidency and, hopefully, build towards greater alignment between the UK and the EU. That is in everybody's interests.”
“I will not rehearse everything that happened with Brexit. I do that a lot in the Chamber. However, if we accept that there are consequences that are largely — from my perspective, almost entirely — negative from Brexit, which include disruptions to the movement of goods on an east-west basis and all the other disruptions on the provision of services, on human rights and on a whole range of other things, this is also, potentially, an opportunity for Northern Ireland representatives — unionists, nationalists, neither — trade bodies, trade unions and businesses to have their say with the European Union and to make arguments for how they would like to see those arrangements simplified or implemented in a different way.”
“However, I recognise that you and members of your political party and political tradition do not want that outcome. However, I still think that it is in your interests, and in those of the people whom you represent, to engage in Europe. Let me explain why, on a more practical level, to come back to the point about practicalities. <BR /> <BR />We hear — I am not going to labour the point in a hostile or negative way — Members opposite still talk — I am sure that the Member for North Antrim will talk about this — about the frustrations around the practicalities of the protocol.”
“I am happy to talk about that, and I am glad that the Member asked the question. Ireland is a militarily neutral country, but it has never been, and would not claim to be, a politically neutral country. Obviously, it stands four-square behind Ukraine defending itself. However, that does not mean that it contributes to, or participates in, military activities. It is perfectly possible to be both of those things. It is possible to believe in the rule of law and in prioritising diplomacy and international law above military intervention and conflict. That is entirely consistent with being an active and leading member of the European Union. That is what I want the Irish presidency to do and, bluntly, what I want the whole island of Ireland to do, ideally when we rejoin the EU.”
“It means the opportunity for our young people — whether they are British, Irish, both, neither, Northern Irish or a combination of those things — to be European and to travel, study and work across the continent. It means the opportunity for our academics and businesses to avail themselves of research opportunities, new markets and new customers; for our workers to avail themselves of the workers' rights agenda and the labour protections that have been delivered via the European Union; and for us to benefit, in environmental terms, from greater cooperation. <BR /> <BR />In the past, Irish presidencies —.”
“Our former leader, John Hume, was extremely successfully repetitive in talking about the European context to the Irish question and the fact that, through common European Union membership and cooperation, the people of this island, with all their different diversities and traditions — and, indeed, the people of these islands: the UK and Ireland together — could move on from an extraordinarily difficult, tragic and often bitter and violent past towards something better and more productive. That can still be our future. <BR /> <BR />In a modest way, the presidency of the European Council this year is an opportunity for us to reclaim that agenda. It does not mean just highfalutin theoretical stuff like what I am talking about now: it means practical opportunities.”