Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
The complete record
Every one of 5,909 lines we hold for Matthew O'Toole, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 32 of 119.
“Minister, I will let you get your voice back. Lots of people are dealing with a cough today. To be clear, a study involving Tourism NI is being done to see whether it is necessary to have further statutory powers, enforcement powers, both or one in order to get the other. I ask you to be specific about this: is it your intention to legislate to get more power to regulate short-term lets, specifically Airbnbs?”
“First Minister, you are First Minister. I asked for your opinion. I did not ask what the AERC is doing. I am on that Committee, so I know. <BR /> <BR />The differential between those titles was born out of unionist insecurity, to be blunt, in 1998. It was a continuation of the top-dog supremacy politics of the Orange state that you and I both want to move away from. Do you agree with me and with yourself, because in 2020, you called yourself the joint First Minister, and with your predecessor, Martin McGuinness, that it is time to abandon that kind of top-dog politics and move toward a joint title?”
“First Minister, I agree with your decision not to go to the banquet. It was the right thing to do. However, given the fact that there is, as you say, a genocide happening in Gaza and that democracy around the world, including, sadly, in North America and the United States, is under threat, what steps are you taking to ensure a broader, values-based international relations strategy for the Executive?”
“— is safe, secure night buses. We are going to keep fighting for those.”
“I hope that the Economy Minister and, indeed, others in the Executive will see the huge potential that can arise from greater use of night buses and public transport in general coming out of the city. It is a huge opportunity for our terrific city. <BR /> <BR />Anybody who was in Belfast on Friday night will have seen the amazing range of things that we had during Culture Night Belfast. There was even wrestling at Grand Central station, which is the biggest transport hub in Ireland. There was all sorts in the train station. There was band music, choirs and an opera singer.”
“That is hugely welcome news for people who enjoy the centre of the city and our amazing offer, whether that is theatre, nightlife, pubs, restaurants or amazing one-off events such as Culture Night Belfast on Friday night. <BR /> <BR />We want people to come and enjoy our terrific city centre. We also want to restore derelict areas, including the Tribeca area. We will be debating that again in the not-too-distant future. Safe, reliable public transport is hugely important. The Belfast night tsar, Michael Stewart, has talked about that. It is a huge driver for our hospitality industry, which is struggling in many ways with additional costs. Unlocking public transport from the city will be really important. A pilot has been agreed in principle, but, now, we need the Infrastructure Minister to step up with the funding.”
“There is a serious point, which is particularly about the safety of young people, especially young women. Having the confidence to travel safely is a critical part of being able to enjoy a night out safely. However, unlike other parts of these islands, we have failed historically to give proper options for public transport home for the people of all ages who are socialising in the centre of Belfast. <BR /> <BR />We now have a thriving nightlife. Mr Brett opposite has worked alongside me and others on building policy support for the brilliant offer that we have. I am pleased to say that Belfast City Council, in conjunction with the Department for Infrastructure, after campaigning by my party, including my colleague Councillor Séamas de Faoite, has moved to a pilot for night buses in Belfast.”
“Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, I do not know whether you have ever got a night bus home, and I am not sure whether that is even an appropriate question to ask the Chair. I do not know how, after a night out, people here get themselves home, whether they use taxis or walk, if they are lucky enough to live close enough to where they are going out. Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, you and I represent the great city of Belfast, along with others in the Chamber, but everybody in the region has an interest in it, because people from across the North travel into Belfast for nights out and weekends away. On Friday, we had the terrific and triumphant return of Culture Night Belfast to our streets. However, one thing that we have been lacking is safe, secure and reliable public transport home for all those revellers of all ages.”
“There is more in the motion, but we are content to support the motion as it is, because this is one of the most pressing issues that our society faces right now.”
“Thank you very much. I acknowledge my colleague for intervening with that pertinent point. <BR /> <BR />It is important to say that there is a critical justice component here, so I want to hear from the Justice Minister not just condemnation but clarity on when we will get the sentencing Bill with, apparently, actions on hate crime. That has to be the three-pronged action. Number one: what is happening on good relations and tackling paramilitarism and, by the way, a beefed-up racial strategy? Number two is in relation to housing. Clearly, there are people in those "stakeholder organisations" who are gatekeepers. We all know that those gatekeepers exist. The police engage with them; others engage with them. What action is being taken in relation to housing? Lastly, there is the justice intervention. All those things need to happen.”
“<BR /> <BR />Lastly, it has to be said that, in addition to the Executive Office and the Communities Department, the Justice Minister has a role.”
“That brings me back to the point about north Belfast, where there is clearly an issue that the UDA appear to see themselves as some kind of pseudo- or quasi-housing association. I welcome the fact that Andy Allen was direct in calling out the brigadiers who appear to see themselves as commandants of the area and are able to say who does or does not live in a housing estate. We have to be direct about that: people from all parties need to call that out and confront it. We need to see the tackling paramilitarism programme updated so that we can understand how that is happening. I would also like to see the Communities Minister and Housing Executive work with that to get to the heart of what is happening in the communities where loyalist paramilitaries are trying to exert that control.”
“When we came back after the summer, after an attempted pogrom in Ballymena, more sectarian and racist violence in north Belfast and what happened in Connswater and elsewhere, people would have expected a coherent, joined-up response. They simply got a press conference with some platitudes. <BR /> <BR />Those platitudes were better than nothing, but the coherent reaction should have been, number one, what is called for in the motion, which is an updated good relations strategy. That should specifically also have had to look at the activities of loyalist paramilitaries — not just loyalist paramilitaries, if other paramilitaries are involved, but it appears to be a specific issue with loyalist paramilitaries.”
“<BR /> <BR />When it comes to the Executive Office and T:BUC, by all means, let us hear it see it and debate it. There are two quick points to make. Number one, I am the leader of the Opposition. We are in opposition, and it is our job to be robust and direct. I welcome the fact that there was, at least, the appearance of consistency of response, but it is also important to say that the public do not elect politicians just to engage in rhetoric. People accuse me of engaging in rhetoric sometimes, and that is fair enough. It is my job as leader of the Opposition to challenge and to use rhetoric. The people who are in the Executive and have power are expected to use it.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have to be wary about conflating legitimate concerns that people can have about any subject with other matters. The availability of housing is a legitimate concern, specifically when we are, it appears, already failing on our social housing targets. In many of these areas, by the way, housing waiting lists exist, but, in other areas, there is availability of housing that has been bought up and turned into houses in multiple occupation (HMOs). All of those are things that people can debate and talk about, but, whenever that strays into hate mobs and lynching, which we saw in east Belfast, or a virtual attempted pogrom, which we saw in Ballymena, it ceases to be something about which we can say, "Well, there is a legitimate debate to be had". As public representatives, we have to be direct and call it out.”
“People can talk about it, but what we have seen in Ballymena or on the streets of Belfast, including, last summer, my constituency, is not people having legitimate concerns that they want to debate. Those people went out to loot, riot, do damage to property and injure other human beings. The person in Connswater who tried to lift a person of colour out of their car and the mob who tried to lynch a black man who was trying to deliver food were not, I presume, on their way to a policy discussion. They were not going to a university debating society or a community centre to have a debate only for someone to stop them from airing their legitimate concerns; they were going to express hate. That is what they were doing.”
“I am pleased to debate the motion, and I hope that, unlike in the previous debate, we can maintain some degree of equanimity. I do not think that equanimity needs to mean perfect agreement or, necessarily, that calmness or consensus is always evidence of progress. There are issues where we need to be respectful but also challenging. <BR /> <BR />It has been often said to me in TV studios and, sometimes, online or in person, that people like me, who are very robust when it comes to their anti-racism and anti-sectarianism, are somehow delegitimising the views of "ordinary decent people" who simply have concerns about, for example, migration. Let me say again that no topic of public policy, whether it is the health service, education or, indeed, migration, is a taboo subject.”
“The quality of the debate has been absolutely depressing, but I hope that we can move on at some point.”
“I wish that there were a specific call, I wish that there were a specific action, and I wish that the debate were somewhat more mature. I genuinely wonder what some of the people watching it, particularly young people, whether they are loyalist young people who want to build a bonfire on the eleventh night and enjoy themselves or young people from any other background, will think. Perhaps young people who are thinking about going to university across the water are listening to the debate and wondering, "Will I ever come back to this place?". They will think, "Do you know what? Maybe I will not". Honestly, we should think about the future and about how we move forward so that loyalist communities and all communities respect one another rather than constantly digging at one another.”
“People enjoy them: I respect that, but that cannot legitimate hate. What was displayed at Moygashel was the most disgusting, revolting hate and racism. By the way, it is a disgraceful slur on ordinary working-class unionists and working-class communities in general to say that that behaviour is some kind of legitimate expression of culture. <BR /> <BR />The answer to all that is, yes, implementing the findings of the FICT Commission. That will involve joined-up work by the First Minister and deputy First Minister and their parties, not slurs across the Chamber, and a genuine commitment to see one another and one another's culture and to empathise with one another. Sinn Féin's Chief Whip is laughing at me; apparently, it is a bad idea to call for working together. <BR /> <BR />I agree with some of the motion's intent.”
“No, I will not give way, because I have a very short time. <BR /> <BR />The Environment Minister did not speak about the bonfire until 48 or even 24 hours before it was built. With the greatest respect to him, that would not have happened were it not for my party standing up and talking about the issue. That was the SDLP using our role to speak on behalf of people in that community. Let me tell you this: my office had calls from people in the Village — working-class people who live in that loyalist community — who said, "Thank you for speaking up about this", in part because other people did not. <BR /> <BR />On the broader point about bonfire regulation, I want people to enjoy bonfires safely. I will not be going to them every day of the week, but I want my constituents and others across the region to enjoy them.”
“It is a tragedy for unionism that it finds itself in that position: a tragedy. That bonfire should not have gone on. <BR /> <BR />I have to address a point that was made. I engaged with the Environment Minister.”
“No, I will not give way, because I gave way to your colleague. I have a very short time. I have already let your colleague in. <BR /> <BR />I corresponded on behalf of my constituents on the Donegall Road, and, to answer your question, I have engaged with community groups across my constituency, including those from a loyalist background. When I say that that is a priority for me, I could not be more serious. I care about that tradition, I care about that community, and I want the best for them. That is why I did not want a bonfire to be built next to a big pile of asbestos. I did not want them to get asbestosis, pneumoconiosis and all the carcinogenic complications. I find it astonishing that I was called some kind of angry, bitter, republican activist because I did not want my constituents to breathe in that stuff.”
“Oh, you are not allowed to talk about fact. I corresponded —”
“Hang on one second. Mr Clarke is shouting across the Chamber at me. <BR /> <BR />Earlier this summer, there was a bonfire in Meridi Street off the Donegall Road. It was mentioned earlier. Next to it were tons upon tons of asbestos. You are shaking your head: do you deny that there were tons of asbestos lying off the Donegall Road? Is that valid?”
“Let me answer that point. That drivel is thrown at parties such as mine all the time, including by Members —”
“I will give way in one second, when you can peddle some more division. <BR /> <BR />That, ultimately, is what it is all about. It is not about culture or protecting safety; it is about peddling division, important as the issue is. <BR /> <BR />I will give way, because I am sure that Mr Brooks will have something mature and enlightening to say.”
“We have seen today what the two big parties make of these kinds of divisions. It is a joint determination not to move on and show leadership together but to use the issues to divide, to yell across the Chamber and, ultimately, to find political and electoral benefit from the division in this society. That is what it is all about.”
“It is important to say that the motion does not call on any specific Minister to do anything, despite the fact that the party that tabled the motion is the largest party in the Chamber and the Executive. That is disappointing and speaks to an absence of real leadership. Were there to be a full-blown implementation of FICT, that would have to be led by the First Minister and deputy First Minister. There is no other way for it to happen.”
“I will happily engage with my DUP colleagues across the Chamber and respond to some of the points that they have made, although that will be in a few minutes. <BR /> <BR />I come on to why the motion is hugely important. Clearly, it speaks to the divisions that we have in our society and to our need to express culture. It is, however, also inevitably a manifestation of the fact that we are still a divided society.”
“I am listening to the debate and trying to channel the average person watching it with their head in their hands, thinking, "Will we ever make progress in this society?" I say that because the quality of the debate and some of what has been said has been absolutely depressing, it has to be said.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Last week, during questions to the Finance Minister, he responded to a question from me by stating as fact that there had been no £50 million underspend in what is called "financial transactions capital". In fact, as per his ministerial statement, earlier this year, on the out-turn for 2024-25, there was, as it says in black and white, a £50 million underspend in financial transactions capital. That may have been human error. Can the Speaker's Office advise on how we could seek a correction of the record?”
“Further to the previous question, Minister, there is clearly a strong argument for using out-of-court disposals and even increasing their use to free up court time and prosecutor time for other things. If they are going to be used for riotous behaviour and that riotous behaviour is aggravated by sectarian or race hate, should that not be an aggravating factor, and will it be in the sentencing Bill, which, I hope, we will see sooner rather than later?”
“You are the Minister of Education, and you are using ChatGPT.”
“That the Minister of Education is using AI.”
“Minister, this is a critical issue. It is clearly hugely important, but you are outsourcing responsibility for the budget to other parties, having insourced all the most controversial things that you have done gleefully over the past year and a half. <BR /> <BR />I will ask you something directly about outsourcing specifically, and I would like a direct answer. Parents and pupils are grappling with the use of AI. It is fairly clear — we checked, using an online tool — that a large proportion of your speech was written by AI. Will you confirm that?”
“I ask this in the genuine spirit of sincerity. The Minister has earned some plaudits for forcing stuff through, even if I and others in the Chamber really disagree with it, and often perhaps without Executive discussion. He now asks others in the Chamber to bear with him, think rationally and, in effect, trust him. Does he accept that the trade-off for pushing through his stuff and his being, shall we say, somewhat abrasive at times in the Chamber about his agenda is that Members are a little less likely to give him the benefit of the doubt on such matters? That is just a thought.”
“I will be brief. Minister, you were asked about the Knockbreda Road crossing: that is hugely critical to the community in Rosetta, which has been waiting for it for years. It is also critical for school safety. There are half a dozen primary schools and three post-primary schools in that area. You said that that would happen in due course: can you be more specific? When will the Knockbreda Road crossing, which will open the back entrance to Cherryvale park, finally be completed?”
“— and I offer my condolences to his family and all who cared about him.”
“We are at a moment in the United States and in other parts of the world in which we need to be able to stand up for freedom of speech but also for respectful debate. Sometimes, that debate will be challenging, robust and very contentious, but it has to happen in the space of respect for difference and for democracy. <BR /> <BR />I know what my values are, and I will keep championing them. Others in the Chamber have values that I will continue to challenge robustly, but I respect their right to have those opinions and to make their points. I hope that they will respect my right to challenge them robustly. I wish that Charlie Kirk had been around: if he had been, I and others would have been robustly challenging his views. The taking of his life is an affront to democracy —”
“Just before I was born, a man named Robert Bradford was assassinated in the constituency that we share, Mr Speaker. Not long after, when I was a baby, Edgar Graham was assassinated near where my constituency office is now. I have no doubt that, had I been a politician at the same time, I would have profoundly disagreed with most of what those two gentlemen stood for and said, but the taking of their lives was profoundly morally wrong and deeply counterproductive. Ultimately, it was the kind of violence that made it harder to make progress in any society. <BR /> <BR />While saying that I did not agree with anything that Charlie Kirk said and robustly oppose lots of what he said, let me say on behalf of my party that his murder was grotesquely morally wrong and indefensible.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is probably obvious that I did not agree with anything that Charlie Kirk said. In fact, I thought that a lot of what he said was abhorrent and wrong. I am willing to say that here; I am not in any way minimising or giving succour to people who thought that it was appropriate to take his life. My party and I have always believed that political violence of that kind is not just morally wrong but profoundly counterproductive, because it emboldens people and creates martyrs for their causes.”
“Violence begets more violence; hate tends to beget more hate. The scenes, brutally and traumatically relayed throughout the world via social media on people's phones, including those of many young people, of the assassination of Charlie Kirk will leave a lasting legacy for many people who supported and sympathised with him. It will motivate them politically, which is their right, but, for them and for everybody else, it is a grotesque, horrifying sign of the breakdown of basic democratic values. It should go without saying in any democracy that the right to disagree is sacrosanct. The right to free speech, even to say things that offend other people, has to be protected. It should also go without saying that we share our profound condolences with Charlie Kirk's widow, his family and all who were close to him.”
“Does my colleague agree that it is also important to note what Members have said about NI Water being a critical part of all of this? It is. They should, through the Executive, support a plan for funding NI Water, which we have not got at the moment.”
“However, if we are serious about rescuing our greatest natural resource, we need to be serious and straight with the public. We cannot constantly say one thing and do another, or, worse, say one thing, do nothing and allow our most precious natural resource to fall further and further into decline. I urge the Assembly to back our motion.”
“I am sure that the Member, with his colleague the deputy First Minister, is making the arguments for investment in waste water and pressing for a plan, because that is part of the story. However, the overall story is that, before the summer, something happened that should not have happened: parties in this Chamber who said that they were going to protect Lough Neagh, the most precious resource on this island, at the very first opportunity, backed away and walked away from the action necessary to deal with it. <BR /> <BR />I do not pretend that these things are easy. Nothing that is worth doing is easy: that is true. It is not easy to deal with these things. We have to be honest with people that we have been putting too much agricultural pollution into Lough Neagh. It is not easy to make the choice to invest more in NI Water.”
“The SDLP is often told in the Chamber that we are not willing to come forward with proposals. There is a proposal. We have other proposals. We call for more North/South cooperation. We call for an independent environmental protection agency, and I hope that we are going to get clarity on that. We call for a well-being of future generations Act, as they have in Wales, to bind the Executive to an obligation on environmental protection and sustainability. We have not yet seen any of those actions from the Executive. The Member's party serves in and jointly runs that Executive, so he has some culpability and responsibility too. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned waste water in my remarks. Yes, we should invest in waste water.”
“There are a couple of things there. First, it is never an argument to say that a problem has been going on for a century. So many of the things that we debate — violence against women and low economic productivity — have been going on for a long time, but that is not an argument not to do anything about them. That is absurd, with respect. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, it is not about individual farmers, who support their communities and work to feed their families, but there is agricultural run-off. A lot of that is to do with intensification and big agri-food business. That is why, among the proposals in our paper, which was launched by our party leader Claire Hanna a couple of weeks ago, is our call for a levy on the profits of big agricultural producers who have been responsible for some of that intensification and pollution.”
“We need to take it seriously, and we need to be honest with everyone about the journey that we need to take together.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we believe in politics at all and in the words that we use when we stand for election, and if the statements that we put out on social media have any meaning at all, parties in the Chamber who say that they want to restore Lough Neagh and that put out social media posts last night saying that they are working to restore Lough Neagh should vote for the motion today, because we saw the consequences over the summer of not dealing with these actions. We are going to see blue-green algae blooms in Lough Neagh, and we have seen them already in other watercourses. I hope that we do not start to see them sprout in greater numbers in Belfast lough and in other watercourses on this island, but we could. We need to start this work now.”