Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“I agree with that, and we will not support the amendments, not because we are being difficult but because we are the Opposition. Our job is to hold to account the parties in the Chamber that are in government. Lots of important things are happening, and I welcome the fact that there is finally a serious discussion with the Treasury about the classification of the Housing Executive and borrowing powers. That is a good thing. We will be constructive in welcoming that. <BR /> <BR />I also welcome the fact that there is now agreement on some of the land use points that we raised. Progress has been made, and I do not think that the Minister is not serious about all those things. There will, however, be a failure to deliver on the target that was in the Programme for Government just a few weeks ago.”
“I have held the Minister to account. I am talking about the Minister too, because the Minister and others are responsible for their failure to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland. However, they are part of an Executive in which the Finance Minister and Infrastructure Minister are unable and unwilling to engage on the most serious issues. <BR /> <BR />I will give way briefly to Mr Carroll.”
“Does Ms Ennis want to come in? I will give way.”
“Yes, yes, yes. I agree with Eoin Ó Broin, the Sinn Féin housing spokesperson in the Dáil, that this is not acceptable. All that the Opposition and I are asking for is that the citizens of the North, who are experiencing a housing emergency, get the same kind of opposition and the same kind of delivery that Sinn Féin is demanding in the other part of this island. Simply announcing strategies, as Sinn Féin housing Ministers did —. By the way, during this debate, which is now over, we have heard from one Sinn Féin spokesperson. That speaks volumes about the seriousness with which that party takes its responsibilities to its citizens in the North. What is good enough in Dublin is not good enough for those of us in the North. It is pathetic. Genuinely pathetic.”
“Yes, I am, and lots of my constituents certainly are. It goes on:”
“Yes, I would say that lots of people in the North are. The post continues:”
“Yesterday, in the Chamber, the Finance Minister practically brushed me off when I asked him about investment in NI Water. Last week, the independent Fiscal Council said that the funding model was not fit for purpose. Yesterday, the Finance Minister said, "I don't agree" and just brushed it off. <BR /> <BR />Later tonight, about 100 miles south of here, there will be a protest. Someone has put up a social media post about the housing crisis in the other part of this island. The person who posted that message asks:”
“I will not give way on absolutely every single point. I have been generous in taking interventions. I will perhaps take another in a few minutes' time. <BR /> <BR />Let me say this. The Executive will, in all likelihood, miss their social housing targets. Let us be clear about that. The Minister at least made a bid to get the amount of money needed, but the Finance Minister did not meet it. <BR /> <BR />We know that one of the other issues that is plaguing the delivery of social housing and all other forms of construction is the situation with NI Water. That is not this Minister's responsibility; it is the Executive's responsibility. The failure to even engage with the problems at NI Water is a shameful indictment of the Infrastructure Minister and the Finance Minister.”
“That is absolutely true. Yes, at one time, our party held that portfolio. We could all go back and find out that Paddy Devlin said something in a meeting of Belfast City Council back in 1970 or whatever. Fair enough. That is fine. I acknowledge that. It is a joint responsibility, but we have to take responsibility, as the Opposition, for holding the Executive parties to account.”
“Mr Kingston said earlier that we were indulging in the "luxury of being in opposition". He and his colleagues and others in the Chamber have the privilege and the responsibility of government. Our job, as the Opposition, is to hold them to account. <BR /> <BR />I think that Mr Allen asked for an intervention.”
“In all probability, it is extremely likely that it will be missed.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate the Minister making that clarification, and I acknowledge that we have been robust with him in the past few days. We will continue to have very strong differences of opinion on events of the past week. I acknowledge that he has at least offered a degree of explanation for what is a striking failure to deliver on social housing targets. I acknowledge that, so far, he has engaged in some detail. That is fair enough, but it is very difficult to see how the Executive can come anywhere near meeting their target — one of the very few specific targets in the Programme for Government — of 6,000 social homes by the end of the mandate. If we are lucky, we will deliver 1,000 this year. That means that, in all probability, that target will be missed.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will attempt to respond to several of the points that have come up in the debate, but I will not cover all of them, because I have a relatively brief period of time. First, I want to tackle the idea that, purely by the Opposition being an Opposition, we are somehow not being constructive. We have said from the very beginning that we would be a constructive Opposition, but let me be absolutely clear: being robust and pressing the Executive for delivery on their own targets is the essence of opposition and of democracy. Some people in this Chamber may not like democratic debate and challenge and may think that we should all come here and agree with one another and wring our hands collectively and go out and pretend that we all agree with one another, but, if we were to do that, we would be failing our citizens.”
“There is a below-inflation rise for NI Water at a time when Lough Neagh is an open-air sewer; when we are failing to deliver enough social homes; and when our waste water infrastructure is preventing economic development across the North. The Minister, in his Budget document, is content to simply wave it through. That, among many other reasons, is why the Opposition cannot and will not support the 2025-26 Budget. <BR /> <BR />As has been said, we will have the opportunity to debate more of those subjects during the Opposition day tomorrow. I will not detain the House any further. We do not support the 2025-26 Budget, but we will not push this Budget (No. 2) Bill, which is an authorisation of spending, to a Division.”
“This debate is about the Budget, and the Communities Minister was talking about his budget. I am afraid that it is all about what is in the Budget (No. 2) Bill, because we are authorising spending that will not be sufficient to deliver the social homes that the Communities Minister, the Finance Minister and all the other Executive Ministers promised. I am afraid that it is entirely linked to today's Budget (No. 2) Bill. It is way, way, way short of being anywhere near the run rate that is needed to get close to 6,000 social homes; it is already failing on its promises. It fails to deliver on investment in NI Water.”
“The Communities Minister's budget was allocated by the 2025-26 Budget document that the Finance Minister provided, legislated for in the Budget (No. 2) Bill that we are about to pass. The Communities Minister walked in here and told us about his failure, which he would see as inability, to allocate the money to build more than 1,000 social homes in this financial year. Mr Kingston is shaking his head. I am happy to give way if he wants to correct me.”
“As this is the legal authorisation of the spending rather than the strategic statement of Budget priorities, the Opposition will push for a Division on the Budget (No. 2) Bill this evening. However, I will take the opportunity to restate the fundamental flaws in the Executive's approach to Budget-making. First, the Budget 2025-26 is already failing because it barely allocated anywhere near enough funding to deal with the specific priorities promised in the Programme for Government. Even in the areas where it promised something approaching a specific target, most notably around social housing starts, it has already failed miserably. The Programme for Government promised just under 6,000 social homes.”
“<BR /> <BR />The CSR announcement has provided further funding for the Budget at hand, and the Committee commends the Minister and his officials for the Department's work on the fiscal framework. The Committee will continue to scrutinise that work and encourage the Minister and his Department to bring the information before it sooner rather than later. Officials will be in front of the Committee this week, and members will be able to question them more fully on how the fiscal framework is progressing and how Professor Gerry Holtham's work fits into that. That concludes my remarks as Chair of the Finance Committee. <BR /> <BR />I will say a brief few words in my Opposition role.”
“The Budget process is one that involves political scrutiny, in an overarching sense, of priorities, and I do that in my capacity in opposition, but also detailed scrutiny of the Budget process, and the Committee has been doing lots of that. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth reflecting on the fact that, following the CSR announcement, we know that the Executive will be able to bring forward a multi-annual Budget in the autumn. Obviously, we will be encouraging them to do so. That will make the Budget process more transparent and, in theory, will make scrutiny easier. As has been well rehearsed, multi-annual Budgets will provide greater security, predictability and ability for Executive Ministers to be strategic in their budgeting. In short, Budgets should be better spent and better planned going forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister is probably fairly exhausted now, and we are also mindful of the comprehensive spending review (CSR), which we heard about earlier. We will be debating that in detail in the Finance Committee on Wednesday. We reach the Final Stage of the Budget (No.2) Bill with a greater understanding of the direction of travel Budget-wise, not just for this financial year but for the following financial years, than we had during the Bill's Second Stage. <BR /> <BR />The Committee granted accelerated passage for the Bill, as it has done for its predecessors in this mandate, in part because we have developed a good relationship as a Committee with the Minister's officials. There is a growing awareness and understanding of the Budget process in speeches. That is really important, and I say that in a non-political sense.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. People will be relieved to hear that I am going to speak very briefly in both my capacities. First, I will speak about the Finance Committee's scrutiny. In fairness to the Finance Minister, he has sat through a lot of scrutiny of the Budget (No. 2) Bill, and he is probably exhausted from hearing all our voices, including mine. However, that is the purpose of this stage of the legislation, and we will be doing it again at some point in the not-too-distant future. We hope to have a June monitoring round very soon. Perhaps the Minister can give us an update on that. I am not sure whether we got one earlier, during questions on his statement, but it would be helpful to get an update on when he thinks that he will get a June monitoring round.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for making those clarificatory points. It is important to put on the record that we appear to be in a bit of a running fiasco with legislative consent motions. I fear that we are at risk of placing our already somewhat compromised reputation for legislative competence in even more disrepute. Will the Speaker's Office be coming forward with more guidance on where we are? That is two LCMs that were brought forward too late for the Assembly to give meaningful consent. Frankly, that is a shocking position for the Assembly to be put in.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way and his being willing to debate. Just to be clear and for the purpose of the record, given that the Member is clearly a passionate unionist, his position is that he does not want a UK Minister to be able to make regulation for Northern Ireland in relation to aligning with the EU. Is that what he is saying?”
“I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker, but, from earlier in the Minister's speech, I was not entirely clear whether she was specifically seeking legislative consent for the Bill or was agreeing with it. For the purposes of the Assembly, may I clarify that she is satisfied that we should grant legislative consent and that that is the position of the Minister and the Executive? It was not entirely clear from the beginning of her speech.”
“Minister, the statement is substantive. It is long and detailed, and most people would expect no less from you; you are a substantive politician. However, it is not what the Caleb's Cause campaign asked for, and the campaigners are genuinely disappointed, to say the least, today. Do we have a problem in our politics with making empty promises to people and then failing to deliver? It is a problem to drag people who sincerely wish for better for their kids with difficulties up to the hill and then to disappoint them. Should we not do better than that?”
“Deputy First Minister, with respect, a vulnerable family listening today and hearing waffle, frankly, about moving beyond siloed working and greater collaboration would think that it is pathetic that the best that the heads of the Government can offer after an attempted pogrom on the streets of Northern Ireland is bureaucratic verbiage. To cut to the chase, some of your colleagues have talked about the context of the violence: one piece of context is the continued and pernicious presence of loyalist paramilitaries in those communities. Do you agree that that is the context for the violence? If it is proven that specific individuals or organisations had a role, formal or informal, in the violence, will any public funding that the Executive Office is responsible for be removed from them forthwith?”
“Minister, I am afraid that your response, just a minute ago, reinforced the sense that many of us have that, rather than take responsibility for your actions and a statutory agency for which you are responsible — the Housing Executive — or empathise with people who were put out of their homes, your instinct is to double down and be pugilistic. Will you express some measure of regret and take some responsibility for what was said in that post and the fact that it placed vulnerable people in real fear?”
“With respect, Minister, you have some neck asking the Opposition what their plan for NI Water is. For the past 15 months, you have been the Infrastructure Minister and then the Finance Minister. You have not brought forward a plan, Minister, so do not throw it back to the Opposition. <BR /> <BR />Lough Neagh, which is our biggest natural resource, has become an open-air sewer; we cannot build social homes; and, last September, in your constituency and in your own house, Minister, you admitted that there was an unpleasant smell coming from the tap water. What will finally prompt you and the Executive to take action on our water crisis?”
“The Fresh Start proposal talked about savings that are verified by the OBR. That does not appear to have been progressed over the past 10 years. Are you confident that we have not missed out on potential additional Barnett consequentials here from actions taken by the UK Government that have, in some cases, penalised benefit recipients here? I am slightly worried that we appear to have simply let that stall and not pursued it. Are you confident that we have not missed out on significant Barnett consequentials that we should have been pressing for?”
“I acknowledge and welcome the fact that the Minister offered no equivocation or context for the trauma that has been visited on children. In that context and given that his Department has been engaged in a review of the curriculum, will he look at the curriculum to ensure that children in Northern Ireland at both primary and secondary school understand that difference is something to be respected? When we have an issue with people going out on the streets to commit acts of hate, surely the education system needs to take real action to counteract that.”
“Will the Minister give an update on the schools that lost Fresh Start funding about 15 months ago when the Executive first returned? I declare an interest, as my child is a pupil at one of those schools. It would be helpful to have an update on what is happening.”
“There is lots to unpack. I have only one question. The Finance Committee will be scrutinising this in detail later this week. Specifically on Casement Park, you say that you welcome the additional allocation from the UK Government of £50 million, and you say that you urge all partners to work together to get Casement built, but it is obvious that you are the Finance Minister. What specifically are you doing to find the additional allocation to get Casement Park built, and when will you make an announcement on how that money will be found?”
“<BR /> <BR />I can only hope, as, I am sure, others in the Chamber do, that the grief that his family and his colleagues feel will be somewhat mitigated by the profound tributes that have been paid to Seán today and the real sense that his life and vocation were dedicated to something very profound: serving his community and building a better society in Northern Ireland. May Seán Neeson rest in peace.”
“<BR /> <BR />A few weeks ago, I was in the beautiful town of Carrickfergus, which he served so diligently for so many years. It is clear that he matched the best of dedicated local representation and absolute commitment to serve the community that you come from and the people who sent you to work every day with a broader vision, which, in his case, was for a shared society and the values that the Alliance Party holds dear. His contribution to his local community in Carrickfergus and, indeed, to wider politics and society in Northern Ireland is remarkable.”
“Just before we came into the Chamber, I texted a couple of our stalwart representatives in the SDLP to ask for observations about Seán Neeson. As has been said in the Chamber, Seán's career stretched back to the 70s in Carrickfergus Borough Council; the Prior Assembly, as it is sometimes known, in the 1980s; the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation in the mid-1990s; and this version of the Northern Ireland Assembly. His decades of service were remarkable. Alex Attwood came back to me with a pithy comment: he said that to define Seán Neeson would be to talk about civility in all his dealings with others, fearlessness in the face of threats and conviction amid cynicism; he defined the best of our politics. That tribute stands to Seán Neeson.”
“My thoughts and those of the SDLP are with Seán Neeson's wife, Carol, his family, the wider Neeson family and, indeed, his colleagues, and our colleagues, in the Alliance Party. They are grieving the loss of a profoundly important and decent man in their party and in our politics.”
“At some point — Ms Ennis is laughing — the difference between the rhetoric that her party comes out with and the things that it does when it has power will have to be called out. It is important that we be honest with farmers and protect our agriculture industry, but it is important that we do not condemn our greatest natural resource to empty populism from parties such as Sinn Féin.”
“Mr Clarke is chuntering. <BR /> <BR />I cannot believe that, after the First Minister went to the lough shore and promised action on Lough Neagh and Declan Kearney talked about the ecological catastrophe engulfing the lough, Sinn Féin will vote today to bin a consultation. It is, by the way, not even the final plan; it is the ability to have a consultation on how we do these things. <BR /> <BR />The consultation is a consultation. I am not endorsing everything that is in the consultation, nor am I predetermining an outcome. However, if we cannot get real at some point and confront the issues, what good are we? It is, frankly, ridiculous to come into the Chamber and constantly say one thing and do another.”
“I have very little time. <BR /> <BR />I am not surprised that the DUP tabled the motion, which we will vote against, but I am genuinely shocked to hear Sinn Féin stand alongside the DUP. We all care about farmers. The SDLP wants to see better consultation and a support and financial incentivisation model that is more like what has happened in the South”
“The Minister's consultation is about looking for ways to address one of the major drivers of blue-green algae: agricultural run-off. Saying that is not demonising farmers; it is scientific fact. It is hugely problematic if people in the Chamber cannot accept that that needs to be dealt with. It is not demonising farmers. Tabling a "to note" motion on a consultation, however, is selling farmers a pup.”
“It looked like someone had sprayed the entire lough with highlighter-coloured foam. That is ecological breakdown.”
“I have very little time, so I will be brief. I have been struck by two personal memories that get to the heart of what we are debating. Although I represent an urban constituency, my father grew up on a farm and farming is close to my family background. One of my earliest childhood memories is sitting on my grandfather's Davy Brown tractor on a rural farm in County Down. I know how deep farming goes in our psyche on this island and in Northern Ireland: it is inherent to who we are and what we are. Rural communities deserve proper consultation and support in order to deliver the environmental change that we need. I am also struck, however, by the memory of summer 2023, when I and others in the Chamber went down to the shore at Lough Neagh and saw the blue-green algae there, which looked like a scene from a sci-fi movie.”
“I ask those who have indulged in that kind of rhetoric to think carefully about the people whom they were elected to serve, the communities that, they say, they care about and the broader public good.”
“Words that have been said matter, including those said by the MP for the area, a former Member of this Chamber. It has to be said that he said disgraceful things, talking about the context of the violence and conflating a range of issues in a way that was deeply irresponsible and unhelpful. No one should seek to minimise or to trivialise people's concerns about any issue of public concern, but those of us who have the privilege of being elected to office have a particular responsibility to use our office and platform wisely, to give leadership to people who want leadership and not to use an appalling act of violence against a young woman to inflame tensions. That, I fear, is what has happened and might continue to happen.”
“We have only to think of some of the appalling incidents that we have seen in the past number of years to know why the ending violence against women and girls strategy is so important. It is critical to say that those who wanted to make their voice heard peacefully and to stand in solidarity with a young woman are in no way represented by the tiny number of people who engaged in appalling violence. Sian Mulholland gave vivid testimony of the impact on her constituents: people who felt unsafe in their homes; people who could have been killed in their homes; and a town torn apart by violence and set alight. That is no kind of response to an awful act that is being investigated. <BR /> <BR />It has to be said that words matter. Political leadership matters.”
“First, it is important to remember, as others have done, that, at the centre of this, there is a young girl who has suffered a traumatic and appalling assault. There is also a police investigation and a justice process that must be followed: that is the absolute core of a civilised society and a democracy based on the rule of law. When appalling violence happens, the response needs to be legal, it must be respected and it must be undertaken by the lawfully constituted authorities. <BR /> <BR />It is also the case that people who are appalled by violence are entitled to stand peacefully in solidarity, as others have done across this island, reflecting the crisis of violence against women and girls that has unfolded and manifested itself in numerous appalling murders and assaults.”
“I appreciate the Minister's giving way, because it allows me to point out that Mr Tennyson, who was quick enough to point out that I was outside the Chamber — I was out for about five minutes to meet some schools from my constituency — is not here now. What is good for the goose. Anyway, I appreciate the Minister's giving way for me to clarify that point.”
“A few days ago, I met a constituent who is going in for cardiac surgery in the next week. She is genuinely scared, given the revelations that she has read. She is getting open-heart surgery. If there is a wider cultural problem across the health service — Patricia McKeown of UNISON thinks that it is symptomatic of a wider leadership problem — what root-and-branch reforms will you put in place across the health service, not simply in the cardiac surgery unit and not simply in Belfast, if that is what is demanded?”
“I thank the Minister for his precise and concise answer. The allocation that he has made, further to the allocation that he received from the Finance Minister, shows that the Executive will fall not just short, but far short, of their target for social home starts by the end of the mandate. Will he confirm, on the record now, given that the Programme for Government promised nearly 6,000 social homes by the end of the mandate, that there is literally no way that that can be achieved, based on the housing starts that he has announced this year?”
“The deputy First Minister did not answer my question. I, of course, want equitable funding for other grounds. Ravenhill and Windsor are both in my constituency. I am glad that they are there and are thriving, but Casement Park has lain idle for 12 years. I am not a unionist, but, if I were, I would think that the best way of demonstrating to nationalists that Northern Ireland is working would be to build a world-class GAA stadium in the middle of west Belfast. Does the deputy First Minister support the stadium's being built, and will she work in the Executive to get it built, including with additional funding, if necessary?”