Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“<BR /> <BR />By the way, I would say, in parenthesis, that, while people talk about impacts on business here, there are businesses on the island of Britain that are dealing with the hugely damaging costs of all the trade barriers that have been erected between Dover and Calais. Please let us not pretend that hard Brexit has not been economically ruinous, as I said, for businesses on the other side of the Irish Sea. Members on the opposite Benches are again shaking their heads, but they are simply denying obvious, self-evident fact. <BR /> <BR />There are and were challenges around implementation, and the EU has not got them all right. The UK has mostly got them wrong, but we have been frank about the fact that there needs to be a focused effort on improving things.”
“That has caused challenges that need to be worked on for businesses, particularly for small businesses, which do not have the same level of capacity as, for example, large supermarkets do to deal with those processes. Our party has always said, as have others in the Chamber, that there needs to be a focus on ensuring that the disruptions are as minimal as possible in order to deal with them. At no point will Members hear me or any other Member from my party say otherwise. Would that other Members in the Chamber were as frank and honest about acknowledging the damages from Brexit writ large. If they were, we might get somewhere.”
“What I will say, however, is that the idea that the protocol has ravaged our economy and that we are dong terribly as a result of it is clearly, obviously and self-evidently untrue. Had it been damaging our economy in the way in which some have claimed, the numbers would bear out that claim. They do not, and they have not. That is not to say that the protocol is some perfect thing: it is not. I would never say that. I have never said that, nor has my party ever said it. <BR /> <BR />Let me go back, first, to the economic question and to some of the disruptions. The protocol, as a result of hard Brexit, has meant new processes for goods as they move from Britain into Northern Ireland.”
“If you want evidence of that, look at the numbers on our overall economic performance. The Northern Ireland composite economic index (NICEI), is produced regularly by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA). We go back to quarter 4 of 2019, when Boris Johnson, formerly beloved of certain Members in the Chamber, signed the protocol. If we compare economic output from quarter 4 in 2019 in Northern Ireland with that in the UK writ large, the UK's is about 2% above where it was then, while Northern Ireland's is over 8% above that. We have far outperformed the rest of the UK in that sense. I would not claim, nor could I claim, that all that difference has been delivered because of the protocol.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am happy to give way to any member of the DUP or TUV or anyone else who would like to intervene and tell me the name of one economic analyst who can find a benefit of Brexit or thinks that Brexit has not cost the UK economically. The Education Minister is here. He was not happy with me earlier. I am happy to give way to him. I am happy to give way to the two former Economy Ministers from the DUP. Actually, I think that we have three former Economy Ministers from the DUP here. If any of them can give me the name of a single economic analyst who thinks that Brexit has had any benefits, I am happy to give way to them. No. That is because there are not any. I have made my point. <BR /> <BR />Brexit has been a disaster. Northern Ireland has had some protections from Brexit.”
“Philip McGuigan mentioned the finding that it cost the UK 4% in long-run productivity: that is the finding after the referendum. The forecast before the referendum when I was working on all that inside Whitehall was that the UK leaving the EU on the terms that it did would cost long-run productivity of 4·2%. That means tens of billions of pounds of lost economic output every year, less money for public services, fewer jobs and fewer opportunities — that is Brexit. So do not, members of the DUP, come in here and carpet me or others in the Chamber who will vote Aye on the motion today, when the consequences that we are dealing with are the result of hard Brexit. Members on the other side of the Chamber shake their head, but it is true. There are none so blind as those who will not see.”
“As a civil servant working on that campaign, I tried my best to stop the UK leaving the EU, because I thought that it would be a disaster for the UK economy. <BR /> <BR />I am a nationalist. I believe that Northern Ireland should leave the UK and form a new Ireland inside the EU. However, I did not want to see the UK economy destroyed; I cared about what happened to the UK. I worked there at the time as a UK civil servant. I am being honest with Mr Buckley about that. He wants Northern Ireland to stay in the UK. I presume that he has the best interests of the UK and its economy at heart. I draw his attention to the repeated findings of the Office for Budget Responsibility and every other serious, credible economic forecaster and analyst who has said that Brexit has fundamentally damaged the UK economy.”
“I will give way to the Alliance leader in just a little while. <BR /> <BR />There have been many consequences of hard Brexit that the DUP does not like, one of which is the protocol and the Irish Sea border, as it talks about. I do not call it that. Another consequence that it does not like is me. I would not be in the Chamber, had it not been for a hard Brexit. I would not be here and would not be a politician in Northern Ireland, had the UK decided not to leave the EU. I was, as the Member said, in Downing Street. I was a civil servant. I did not agree with the Government that I worked for, but, like lots of civil servants, you work for the Government that you work for. I was a civil servant in 2016. I spent the night of 23 June in 10 Downing Street.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />The Member brings me back to my former career, which I was going to talk about. There have been many consequences from hard Brexit that the DUP does not like.”
“Well, I was not a politician then. Do I regret wanting to have the protocol implemented? No, I do not. Does Mr Buckley regret hard Brexit?”
“First, it was not a motion; it was a letter. What would some of the anti-protocol crowd have to talk about were it not for the phrase "rigorous implementation"? <BR /> <BR />I will come on to talk about our view of the protocol and our ambitions for our future relationship with the European Union. I want to see —.”
“I will give way in one minute — in fact, I will give way now.”
“I am afraid that, in many ways, they have no one to blame but themselves, although perhaps they can also blame Boris Johnson, their erstwhile ally, who is now retired somewhere, writing his memoirs and probably not paying much attention to the debate here today. Perhaps Members on the other side of the Chamber will reflect on that as they lambast those of us in the Chamber who are doing our best to make this place and our post-Brexit arrangements work.”
“The Member has made his point. <BR /> <BR />I will return to the basic logical point that I was making, which was that, had the UK not decided to leave the European Union and had there not been a hard Brexit, there would have been no need for lobbying by the SDLP, the Alliance Party, Sinn Féin, the Irish Government and EU member states in order to protect us from a hard border on the island of Ireland. That was necessary because of Brexit — a hard Brexit that was chosen by people who did not have the interests of this place at heart. Tragically, the DUP and others in the Chamber got on board with that hard Brexit and were cheerleaders for it.”
“Since then, we have seen two UK general elections, two Irish general elections, an Assembly election and institutional collapse. That institutional collapse was brought about by the party opposite — the DUP — because it did not like the post-Brexit arrangements resulting from the hard Brexit that it and its allies in the Conservative Party championed and brought about. That is why the protocol exists. <BR /> <BR />It was surreal to hear Mr Buckley and, to an extent, Mr Aiken talking about the protocol — now renamed the "Windsor framework" — as if it fell from the sky and had nothing to do with Brexit. It would not have happened without Brexit. The UK's leaving the European Union is ipso facto why there is a protocol. It is also why I am here, and I will talk a little about my experience.”
“Should Mr Buckley ever, for whatever reason, decide to leave politics — he is very young, and I hope that he does not — let me reassure him that the Grand Opera House beckons. May McFettridge would be jealous of that performance. It was one of the great ham acts of the pantomime season. <BR /> <BR />We are debating a serious issue today. Unlike many of the motions that we have debated since returning to the Chamber, this is about something fundamental. It is about the relationships that we have following the UK's decision to leave the EU. It is about a decision that we did not make, which was for a hard Brexit, that has had profound consequences for our people, our peace and the society and economy in which we live. That protocol was first signed by Boris Johnson and his Government five years ago.”
“The protocol came into existence, in a sense, in October 2019. October 2019 feels like a lifetime ago, although, in fairness, everything that happened before Jonny Buckley's speech feels like a lifetime ago.”
“Article 9 relates to energy and the operation of the single electricity market. Does the Ulster Unionist Party want us to leave the single electricity market? That seems to be what he is indicating.”
“The Member is right to say that the IFA and lots of other heavy agriculture producers, including beef producers, are very concerned about the Mercosur deal. I am not a fan of it myself, but is it not the case that the UK Government — certainly the previous UK Government — went hell for leather when it came to agreeing trade deals that had very low standards with regard to agriculture goods and were not in the interests of farmers on this island?”
“I am aware that the Member is now possibly filibustering and just reading out stuff that is in front of him in order to eat up time, but he may not be aware that some of the regulations that he just mentioned are critical to the functioning of the single electricity market. That is how electricity flows. That is why the Building and the Chamber are alight. Can he explain how, without the provisions of the protocol, we would keep the lights on, because that requires the single electricity market to function?”
“The protocol exists and applies in law in Northern Ireland only because the UK Parliament voted for it too.”
“OK. I will have plenty of time later on to expound on the points in this wonderful paper. You mentioned railing against laws made in our sovereign Parliament. This is a law made in that — "our", as you want to call it — sovereign Parliament.”
“His friend the Education Minister is chuntering from a sedentary position. Northern Ireland remains in the UK by dint of a simple majority, not a cross-community majority. Will he acknowledge that?”
“This place is in the United Kingdom by dint —.”
“I am delighted that Mr Buckley has given way and given me the opportunity to challenge some of his assertions around cross-community voting and the context in which it is applied in the Assembly. He and his party appear to be saying that cross-community consent applies to all constitutional issues. Does he acknowledge that the first paragraph under "Constitutional Issues" in the Good Friday Agreement says that Northern Ireland's place in the United Kingdom relates to:”
“First, Minister, you may want to speak to your private office, if you have no say over what goes in your diary. Secondly, I want to gently push back on what Mr Gaston said about "unionist businesses" on Sandy Row. People from all over the community have used the shops in Sandy Row in the past, and I hope that that will be the case into the future. We need to be careful about using that kind of language. <BR /> <BR />Minister, yesterday you said that you wanted people to get out of their cars and onto public transport: we can all agree to that. To do that, particularly in the south of the city, we need Glider phase 2. When will we get an update on that? You promised that it would be in the coming weeks, but we have heard nothing yet.”
“As I said, the urgency of climate action, which is, in many ways, the ultimate question facing us for the remainder of the century, demands meaningful and practical action, and it demands that we, as legislators, are serious about our responsibilities. To that end, we welcome the regulations that are being laid before the Assembly, but we hope that they are followed up with more detail on a climate action plan and more practical action, driven by the Executive with honesty and clarity.”
“That includes reassuring and engaging with all the sectors that will have to feel the brunt of some of the changes but can also benefit from how we adjust the way in which we work our economy. That includes our agri-food sector, which delivers huge economic benefits for this region and wants to be part of the agenda. However, we need to be clear about the targets and how we intend to deliver on them.”
“It is also important to acknowledge that they are a year late. That goes back to the point about the structural dysfunction that we have in this place and the fact that things like climate action end up being subject to the whims of our political dysfunction. <BR /> <BR />We also have to recognise the fact that several key provisions of the Climate Change Act, which was passed here with great aplomb in 2022, remain undelivered. Those include the establishment of a climate commissioner, so it would be helpful, when the Minister sums up, for him to talk a little bit about those outstanding actions. The climate commissioner's role is vital to ensuring accountability and driving progress. Let us not delay on this work. We need to get real, and we all need to be serious about making those targets a reality.”
“We need an economic model that places sustainability at the heart of our prosperity, acknowledging that a thriving economy is intrinsically linked to a stable climate. In our debate later this afternoon, when we will talk about the protocol, I will talk a bit more about the opportunities, which include those to use our dual market access and our position in relation to both markets and both decarbonisation agendas, which are being driven from London and Brussels, to our economic advantage. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, like a lot of the Executive's work thus far, good intentions have not translated into action. We welcome the targets being set out today, but, ultimately, we will judge the Executive on the action that follows. It is, however, a welcome step to see the regulations being laid before us today.”
“In many ways, it is the ultimate cross-cutting issue, and the targets and regulations will be delivered only with meaningful cross-departmental action. We will be robust with the AERA Minister in bringing forward proposals on climate action and on the broader questions of biodiversity, environmental protection and calling for the most robust and urgent action. We have been robust with him at times in the Chamber. We will also support him when he shows ambition and when others are less likely to show ambition. <BR /> <BR />Climate change demands decisive, cohesive action across the Executive. While the regulations are crucial, these questions remain: what comes next? Are the Executive capable of delivering on that? We need a planning system that enables the rapid and large-scale roll-out of renewable energy projects.”
“The recent storms and the devastating floods that we have seen disrupted livelihoods, damaged infrastructure and illustrated in stark detail the vulnerability of our communities. We saw it in towns and cities across the island and in this region. That is climate change. What happened last year in my home town of Downpatrick is climate change. That is the climate changing and affecting how we live, do business and go about our everyday lives. This is not an abstract preoccupation for lefties or progressives; it is a real, meaningful challenge that will affect all of us and how we live our lives. <BR /> <BR />As I said, quite rightly, climate action cannot and must not be confined to one Department.”
“It behoves all of us to be serious about our obligations and about the targets. That is why we welcome the fact that the regulations have been laid today. <BR /> <BR />As I said, retaining the 2030 emissions reduction target of at least 48% below baseline and setting a 20:40 target of 77% demonstrates a welcome commitment to tackle the climate emergency. Those are essential steps that align Northern Ireland with a trajectory to net zero by 2050, as outlined in the Climate Change Act 2008. However, as I said, those steps are necessary but not sufficient. They will be, in a sense, meaningless without urgent action to deliver on them and make them real. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the stark reality is that the impacts of climate change are already here. We cannot afford complacency.”
“On this island, we will face significant disruption, and we need to manage climate change. As the Member who spoke previously said, we also need to ensure that those who are impacted on by how we shift our economy and how we deliver on those climate change obligations are not only protected through a just transition, particularly for agriculture, but, where they are in industry, are helped and guided to deliver on their emissions targets and obligations. <BR /> <BR />Those are not easy questions. They are not easy for any jurisdiction in the world. They certainly are not easy for a jurisdiction that is addicted to collapse and dysfunction. It calls to all of us to be serious about our job as legislators to confront, in many ways, the most profound challenge that any democracy is facing this century.”
“<BR /> <BR />What matters now is that those targets are backed up with meaningful action that can deliver on them. First of all, we need the regulations that are being laid today. However, we also need, after this, meaningful climate action plans, and I acknowledge and understand that those are going to have to get through the Northern Ireland Executive. <BR /> <BR />These questions and trade-offs are not easy, but climate change is not easy, either. We are already living with the consequences of climate change. We saw that last weekend with the devastating impact of storm Darragh. On this island, some of the impacts of climate change are, in one sense, less dramatic for us than they are for other parts of the world, where people face loss of life, loss of home and the most profound shift in how they will be obliged to live.”
“I am going to speak relatively briefly about the regulations. Our representative on the AERA Committee, Patsy McGlone, is unwell, so is unable to be in the Chamber, and we send him our best wishes. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP broadly welcomes the regulations that have been laid by the AERA Minister. It is important to note a couple of contextual things first of all. Northern Ireland has, frankly, been a shameful laggard for far too long when it comes to climate action. At the very last minute, in the dying embers of the previous Assembly mandate, we did agree a Climate Change Act, which, for the first time, put in place binding targets for tackling the climate emergency, reducing emissions and reaching net zero. We were also the last jurisdiction on these islands to have such targets placed into law.”
“Minister, we, as the Opposition, have always encouraged you when it comes to ambition around rating policy. There is not that much clear ambition here. Some of the things that you are looking at are welcome, including vacant property relief. However, exactly how much money will be raised from the measures that you are announcing today? By my count, it will be less than £10 million, which, by anyone's calculation, does not represent a significant new form of revenue-raising.”
“No one disagrees with the assertion that Belfast is too car-centric, but the challenge that we face in the here and now is that, in the weeks before Christmas, the city has completely ground to a halt because of congestion. With respect, it simply is not good enough to tell people to look at alternative routes. What powers are you using, Minister, to see whether, for example, roadworks can be scheduled for times when they do not place huge pressure on the retail and hospitality businesses that rely on these weeks in order to survive? Our city is in crisis, Minister: what will you do to ease the pressure?”
“I am afraid, First Minister, that whether it is on Assembly reform, the reform of the Stormont veto, the legislative programme, the failure to present a draft Budget before Christmas, as the Finance Minister promised, or assorted matters on the Irish language, Casement and a number of other things, too many people have heard warm words and platitudes but not seen delivery from the Executive. I ask that, as a New Year's resolution, you, as First Minister, perhaps think about fewer platitudes, fewer photo ops and more delivery.”
“I will stick with the theme of the legislative programme for 2024, which will not be delivered or even half delivered. The Minister said a moment ago that she cannot get into the detail of why individual Bills have not yet been introduced to the Assembly, but she was the person who launched the legislative programme and listed every Bill that she said then would be introduced to the Assembly. I repeat my question.”
“Minister, you are keen to talk about Santa Claus's deliveries, but you have not been so keen to talk about delivery of the Executive's legislative programme. To be clear, you referred to it as the "programme for 2024-25": you did not call it that when it was published in a statement to the Assembly. It was the "Executive Legislation Programme 2024", which is the year that is about to end. To confirm, you set yourself a low bar of 18 or 19 Bills. You will fail to reach even half that number. Can you account for why the Executive have failed to reach even 50% of the modest legislative programme that they set themselves?”
“First Minister, in the Chamber in February, you said that the place in which to discuss Stormont reform, the removal of the veto and stopping collapse was at the Assembly and Executive Review Committee (AERC). Your counterpart, the deputy First Minister, said exactly the same thing. Why, then, did your parties join together last week to block any progress being made on those issues at said Committee?”
“Not to sound like the ghost of Christmas past, but, in December 2021, a predecessor of the Minister's stood in the Chamber and also promised a housing supply strategy that would deliver 100,000 homes. We do not seem to be on that trajectory yet. May I ask what, specifically, is different about the Minister's strategy versus that one that will enable him to deliver 100,000 homes? Please be specific.”
“His impact was immense, and his memory will be treasured by his family and all who knew him.”
“Much more than that, however, Seán was a person of immense courage, resilience and generosity of spirit. Seán was a member of our party, and he chaired our disabled group for a number of years. He was one of those people who was so generous in what he gave to others. He was not just a campaigner on issues that he cared about: he endowed others with his kindness and his passion for the world and for doing things better. Many a time, Seán dropped me a message to be encouraging. He would, perhaps, critique something that I had said but offer his ideas and gentle words of kindness and encouragement. That kind of person is not commonplace. <BR /> <BR />Seán Fitzsimons was not commonplace. He was an extraordinary human being. We are all reduced by his tragic passing, but, although his life was tragically short, his legacy will be long.”
“It showcased not just disability employment issues but the city of Belfast around the world, and it held events here at Stormont. Seán was one of the leaders of that and was, rightly, given an award for his extraordinary work. Before that, he worked in several campaign groups and sector bodies, including Disability Action.”
“His passing is an immense tragedy for all of us — for people in the disability rights sector and for people who care about positive campaigning and public discourse in this place — but, particularly, for his wife, Nicole, and their baby, Ollie, who just recently turned one, his parents Seán and Sally and his wider family circle. <BR /> <BR />Seán was an extraordinary human being. In a career focused on disability rights, he made his mark in the Civil Service. Most recently, he led the project that delivered the Harkin International Disability Employment Summit, which was an extraordinary success.”
“As Mr Butler said, I want to pay tribute on the passing of our friend, a disability rights activist known to many Members across the Chamber, who passed away suddenly and tragically a couple of days ago: Seán Fitzsimons. To say that Seán was an extraordinary human being would be the most remarkable understatement. Like others, when I found out about Seán's passing, I was not just shocked but heartbroken and genuinely devastated. <BR /> <BR />I first knew Seán at school. He was a year or two behind me at St Patrick's Grammar School in Downpatrick many decades ago. He made an enormous contribution not just to the lives of people with disabilities in Northern Ireland and further afield but to campaigning and activism in this place.”
“It ill behoves anyone who speaks on behalf of Executive parties to challenge the Opposition on our contribution to debates when their Ministers take £40,000 trips across the Atlantic and miss important Assembly debates. I have made my point. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. First, I verbally indicate my apologies for walking in front of the Speaker's Chair some moments ago. I was rushing, but, obviously, that is in breach of protocol, so I apologise. <BR /> <BR />On a further point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will respond to some of the commentary that was made during the debate about me in my role. I would say that I contribute more to plenary debates in the Chamber than any other Member. If anyone wants to do a time-in-motion exercise, they can do one about my and the Opposition's contribution to debates and our work in holding the Executive to account.”