Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“We might not have worded it in exactly the same way, but it has a lot of constructive suggestions and things that are important to progress. I am glad that the Assembly is debating the motion from my colleague Justin McNulty. We look forward to progressing the motion and continuing to robustly put the case for rebuilding our all-island rail network, putting it on the agenda and holding the Executive to account for delivering on it.”
“It is deeply frustrating not just for people who live in border regions but those who regularly use cross-border rail services that the system is clunky and that there are cost disparities. It is, yes, cheaper, but also, in many ways, more straightforward to book a ticket south of the border that gets you north of the border. It is far too complicated. We should make it as easy and cost-effective as possible for people to use public transport, particularly our rail network. We are unabashed and proud of that, and it is one of the most important agendas facing us for the rest of the century. Let us make progress on the matter. Our motion today is about putting it on the Assembly's agenda. <BR /> <BR />There are a lot of constructive suggestions in the DUP amendment.”
“We are only now starting to construct the ambition towards rebuilding the network. Grand Central station is in the middle of Belfast. By the way, the associated roadworks are causing huge disruption to my constituents, but I will never criticise it for existing, because I want that potential. I want the extra platforms and extra capacity in Belfast to build the muscle memory and capacity for rail connectivity across the North and across the island. That is what is really important. <BR /> <BR />The motion touches on a very specific issue, which is the alignment and unification of the fare structure. That will be a short-term bureaucratic challenge, but we certainly want the Minister to progress it, insofar as he can, with his Southern counterpart.”
“I am, however, proud and unashamed to say that I want more of us across the island to be able to take train routes, including those who live in County Fermanagh. I am sure that the Chair of the Infrastructure Committee would be deeply offended if I did not mention that. <BR /> <BR />My colleague the former SDLP Infrastructure Minister set out a clear intention. She commissioned the first all-Ireland strategic rail review. I am glad to see that the Minister has stuck with that agenda. We will continue to press him and his Southern counterpart to progress that. Presumably, it will be his new counterpart in the South, because there will be a new responsible Minister down there at some point in the next month or two. <BR /> <BR />We destroyed our rail network, particularly in the North, during the middle of the 20th century.”
“On the important motion that we are discussing today — I am slightly surprised to hear the Member who previously seemed to agree with everything in the motion say that he does not like it — it is critical that we effect what many people know now to be one of the most vital agendas for the rest of the century, which is moving away from the addiction, created in the 20th century, to getting everywhere by car. We are one of the most car-dependent regions and islands in the developed world. The car is not going anywhere. We are all aware that, as part of the migration to net zero, we will need to reform through the greater use of electric vehicles. The car will continue to be critical, particularly in rural areas and, indeed, urban areas.”
“We have been doing our job in opposition, which is fundamentally holding the Executive to account. We have put down a range of practical proposals. We do that constantly and will do it tomorrow.”
“I will. It is very reasonable of you to bring me back to the point, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I needed to address the absolutely absurd accusation that the SDLP has not been putting forward ideas.”
“Another one was on our future relationship with the European Union; indeed, we are publishing a paper on that tomorrow.”
“What an apposite moment to be called: it means that I can respond to some of the comments that the Member for Lagan Valley made about constructive motions from the Opposition. I take profound exception to the suggestion that the SDLP has not put forward serious and constructive proposals; in fact, it is, frankly, asinine to say that we have not done that, given the seriousness with which we have approached our role in opposition. <BR /> <BR />We have been constructive and serious throughout. Occasionally, we are robust, and we make no apology for that, because that is our job. In the most recent Opposition day, we put forward a series of constructive and serious proposals on regeneration and childcare. Yes, one of our motions included condemnation of Ministers who had been found to have broken the ministerial code.”
“I appreciate the technical response from the Minister but, given her reputation for seriousness and detail, she would have to accept that it is a fairly surreal situation for a Finance Minister to rely on suspending the provisions of her ministerial colleague's private Member's Bill to secure savings. She has not got onto the Executive agenda a minor change to the rating system around the domestic rate caps. We have not seen any proposals as yet, despite elaborate promises, on fiscal devolution. Is it not the case that the big reform agenda that was promised around Budget and revenue-raising simply has not emerged yet?”
“— and build social houses in Northern Ireland?”
“— that it will be "difficult but not impossible". Minister, rather than simply encouraging Departments, will your Department properly and proactively look at ways to deploy the money to improve people's lives, regenerate towns —”
“Minister, while your and your Department's approach to FTC has not quite been, "Computer says no", it has been, "Computer says this is quite difficult, so we need to look at it in more detail". I am afraid that we are handing back tens upon tens of millions of pounds of FTC every year. I offered the example of Tribeca, a northern part of Belfast city centre that has fallen into dereliction over decades and said that we could use the FTC for that. You sent me a letter that said —”
“I want more investment in public transport for Carryduff, including, ideally, the extension of Glider phase 2, assuming that it is delivered, all the way to Carryduff to reduce congestion down the Saintfield Road to properly build and grow that community and make it sustainable and liveable in a way that the terrific residents of Carryduff and the groups that support them deserve.”
“However, it gets a frankly shameful amount of support from local government, so it relies on those great community institutions — Carryduff GAC, the Carryduff Colts, Carryduff Regeneration Forum and others — to deliver for it. <BR /> <BR />In the next couple of weeks, we will see a really positive development in Carryduff, which is the opening of a new Lidl supermarket. That might seem to be a modest development, but it has been really longed for and long-awaited and has been literally a decade in the making for Carryduff. It is a really important development. <BR /> <BR />Going forward, however, we need more, and I want more for that community. I want more investment in the public realm.”
“The local Carryduff Regeneration Forum has done a huge amount of work to develop and grow Carryduff as a community. <BR /> <BR />The reason I say all this is that Carryduff, through local sports clubs, community organisations and community regeneration, has done a huge amount, and we will see evidence of that in the weeks to come around Christmas. However, it has never properly had support from its local council. That whole area of what is called "BT8" — the postcode of Castlereagh South — which includes Carryduff, Newtownbreda and Four Winds, contributes a huge amount in rates revenue to Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council.”
“In the last couple of years, it celebrated its half-century. It has been an extraordinary achievement. It is now one of the fastest-growing and strongest senior clubs in the county. It is what is called a "dual code club": it is strong in both hurling and football; indeed, it is challenging for championships, certainly in football and possibly in hurling. Carryduff Colts is a glorious local football club. It has one of the largest and fastest-growing memberships in all of Northern Ireland. It won the Irish Football Association's regional amateur club of the year. <BR /> <BR />There is a wonderful local community group; indeed, Michelle Guy, who is in the Chamber and was just in a meeting with me, has been a strong supporter of that too over the years.”
“Thank you, Principal Deputy Speaker, for clarifying that. In the season of goodwill, I appreciate your festive spirit in letting me in briefly. <BR /> <BR />I want to talk about a couple of developments in a really wonderful community — Carryduff — that is part of my constituency. Carryduff is one of the most vibrant, community-spirited parts of South Belfast, which will soon, for the purposes of the Assembly, be Belfast South and Mid Down. <BR /> <BR />In the last little while, there have been some really positive developments in the Carryduff community, and I just want to highlight them. Two of its brilliant local sports clubs, Carryduff GAC and the Carryduff Colts soccer club, have been rightly honoured for their amazing work. Carryduff GAC was named Down GAA club of the year.”
“I will declare an interest as a parent of a child who attends Forge Integrated Primary School. As Paula Bradshaw says, the situation is deeply frustrating not just for the school's leadership but for the wider school community. Money was taken off Forge Integrated Primary School when it expected to get a new school, and now there are significant planning delays in the Department for Infrastructure. I ask the Minister to speak to his colleague the Minister for Infrastructure to finally resolve what is holding up the situation on the DFI side and progress the project. Parents and the wider school community are at their wits' end because of the delay.”
“Minister, although there is much in here that people will understand and sympathise with, there is some stuff to be concerned about too. Let us be transparent about your reform of the way that the taxing master works. I am not aware of any other situation in which the state can be on the other side of assessing the counter party's costs, which is, effectively what you are calling for here. The comparisons are usually not perfectly analogous. Will you, please, confirm that, in legacy cases, for example, we will not have a profound conflict of interests where the state is, effectively, assessing the costs of its counter parties? Why, in the interests of transparency, will you not publish the Burgess report?”
“Where are the Ministers who should be telling us where the legislation is? Let me, at least, pay tribute, which I do not always do, to the Justice Minister, who has introduced probably the most substantive legislation — the Justice Bill — which is being interrogated. At least it is there to be interrogated. The rest of the legislation programme simply has not been introduced. Why not? Where is it? <BR /> <BR />If we want this place to have some kind of reputation for delivery and not to be seen simply as a dysfunctional, ridiculous place on a hill, we actually have to do what we say we will do. Let us have an explanation for where all of that legislation is.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of the 18 that we were promised earlier this year, by my count, half — barely 50% — will reach the Assembly. By the way, the legislation programme did not promise to get those things on the statute book or even to debate them at Second Stage: it was just about introducing legislation. Let me repeat that: the Executive have delivered barely half of their legislation programme. Let that sink in. <BR /> <BR />We returned here in February with a promise to deliver. We have come here day after day and debated motion after motion, promising big things. We promised the people who sent us here that the Executive and Assembly would be focused on delivery, but the legislation programme simply is not being delivered. <BR /> <BR />I am afraid that the job of the Opposition is to call out that kind of nonsense.”
“Often, we, as politicians, hear about the importance of under-promising and over-delivering. Well, it appears that the Executive have under-promised and under-delivered. <BR /> <BR />The legislative programme was full of limp, technical but important legislation — things like a financial provisions Bill, which is about giving legal authority to various Departments to spend certain types of money. That is important, but it is technical. By the way, it could have been prepared — I assume that there were civil servants preparing it — while this institution was in abeyance. We also expected to see by now a Fiscal Council Bill to put on a statutory footing the independent spending watchdog that has existed for a number of years. There was a range of other pieces of legislation, few of them particularly substantive.”
“We now have the Order Papers for the rest of 2024, thanks to your good office. We know that, before the end of this year, we will debate the motion to extend or not extend the protocol. We also know that the Executive will not deliver on the legislation programme that they put before the Assembly earlier this year. They will not just not deliver on it; they will barely get halfway through the legislation programme that was presented to the Assembly earlier this year. <BR /> <BR />On 11 June, the First Minister and deputy First Minister tabled a motion in the Assembly, asking us to note the Executive's legislation programme, which, at the time, it has to be said, was modest. It was a modest, slimmed-down legislation programme, and we were told that it was important to be realistic.”
“— who are interested in their Ulster-Scots lineage to arrive in Dublin and then travel to Antrim, Omagh and all those places?”
“Will the Minister use the US/NI working group to press for reform and an end to the ridiculous electronic travel authorisation (ETA) scheme that the UK Government are imposing, not just on Northern Ireland but on the island of Ireland, which will limit the ability of US tourists —”
“I am all in favour of that agenda. It is an important one, even if the good Ulster-Scots quality of parsimony was not on display when it came to the cost of your visit to the United States. <BR /> <BR />Some of the divisions that we think about, such as Ulster Scots versus Irish, were utterly irrelevant in the 18th century and are historically obsolete. Indeed, all that took place before Ireland's partition. Of course, many of the Ulster-Scots migrants would have been Irish speakers. Now, we think of some of those identities as opposing one another, but those oppositions did not exist in the 18th century.”
“I look forward, given what the DUP put down in an amendment today, to hearing what the Communities Minister has in store in legislation to protect and enhance the rights of disabled people, because we have not had any of those promises delivered. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment is about adding to the motion by being clear that we need stand-alone hate crime legislation to protect and defend people in a whole range of protected categories but, in particular, today, to protect disabled people, who face an epidemic of hate crime. I commend our amendment.”
“It would be helpful to understand where that strategy and study are, because, like so many of the strategies and reviews that go on in this place, it appears to have disappeared into the ether. In the broader context of services and provisions for disabled people, it would be helpful to understand where that is. <BR /> <BR />I will touch very briefly on the DUP amendment. I speak in a personal capacity, not on behalf of others. While it is important to acknowledge that people have sincere views on those issues, the substance of the motion is about the rights of disabled people. I totally acknowledge people's putting down amendments, but I am focused on the question about the rights of disabled people. It is important to say that, if we are serious about delivering on the rights of disabled people, we should be able to pass legislation.”
“is so important. It happens, as I said, in a context in which we have failed people with disabilities. We have failed to protect them, not just by their lights but in comparison with neighbouring jurisdictions. I look forward to hearing from the Minister what he intends to do about that and also where we are with the social inclusion strategies. I know that work has slowed down on all of those. In fact, it appears as though work has stopped entirely on some of those. Perhaps he could correct me where I am wrong on that. <BR /> <BR />It is also important to say that a disability strategy was commissioned by the Minister's predecessor, Deirdre Hargey, not long before we broke up for an election and then had a subsequent collapse.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let me get back to the central point about why a stand-alone hate crime Bill, which had a particular focus on dealing with what Leonard Cheshire calls:”
“Most of the Order Paper today and, indeed, most of the Order Papers in most of the time since we have been back, have not been about legislation, so it is, I am afraid, hard to say that we do not have time to do legislation when we have acres of space in the Order Paper that is taken up by motions. Important though those issues are, they are not practical legislative action. That is an important point to make. However, I look forward to seeing the legislative programme delivered upon. For the legislative programme of 2024, we are far behind schedule already, so perhaps, in the next fortnight, we will see a whole surge of Bills being introduced in the Assembly. That would be great.”
“That was a fulsome defence of his party colleague. I was not attacking his party colleague the Justice Minister. I think that she wants to take action in this area. I will say a couple of things. Number one: it is important that we are all held to account for what we have promised and what we deliver. That includes the Justice Minister. I am candid about that. Number two: it is also true to say that, while I agree with him that we have been shamefully collapsed for about half of the past decade — his party and my party will not disagree on that — it is also the case that we have been back now for getting on for 10 months.”
“While it is clear that sentencing provisions are going to be a major part of hate crime legislation, by way of strengthening the guidance for the judiciary in what constitutes an aggravation in relation to hate crime, that is not the totality of hate crime legislation. A range of other things would be in a stand-alone hate crime Bill and, of course, the purpose of having a stand-alone Bill is to allow us to debate the full gamut — the context — of hate crime facing persons with disabilities and, indeed, other protected characteristics. We would be able to scrutinise in detail the statistics and the definitions of hate crime, which is often one of the most vexed and challenging questions that people have when it comes to hate crime, and we would be able to unpack and interrogate those questions and hear from stakeholders.”
“Even though it is on a smaller scale, the impact of hate crime against persons with a disability is extraordinary, acute and very serious. It was looked at by Judge Marrinan when he did his review a number of years ago. Both 2022 and 2023 saw record numbers of hate crimes for this jurisdiction. Leonard Cheshire, a charity with which we will all be familiar, described the rate of disability-based hate crime in Northern Ireland as an epidemic. What do we do about it? We think that we need a stand-alone piece of hate crime legislation. We have been calling for that consistently. I note that the Justice Minister previously said that she and her party, as stated in its manifesto, were committed to a stand-alone hate crime Bill. That position has moved to having some provisions of some kind in a sentencing Bill.”
“I hope that in what is left of the mandate, which hopefully survives and does not collapse, we will see practical legislative action from the Executive through the incorporation of the UN convention into legislation here. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment is designed to add to the original motion by drawing attention to the context around hate crime. For the past number of years, we have seen an increased and elevated level of hate crime against persons with disabilities. We are aware of and have talked regularly in recent months about the spike in race-related hate crime in Northern Ireland and the fact that the incidence of race-related hate crime is now greater than sectarian hate crime in Northern Ireland.”
“It is clear that we have failed people with disabilities in Northern Ireland by not keeping up to date with equality legislation, and it is clear that we have not done right by them by ensuring that our statute book, statutory agencies and all others who are obliged to follow the law on equality provisions and protections have to meet the same standards as those in other jurisdictions. That is, I am afraid, shaming. It connects to our broad and consistent inability to keep up with equality rights provisions in this place, to deliver on a bill of rights, for example, and, frankly, to put the rights of people — be that people with disabilities or people with other protected characteristics — at the forefront of a rights-based agenda in this jurisdiction. We welcome the motion.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to debate the motion. However, as with all the other motions that we are debating and that we have debated since we returned in February, I would rather be debating substantive legislation. Indeed, I would rather be debating legislation that, as Danny Donnelly said, incorporates the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities into our law. I would rather be debating practical updates to our statutory framework that at least start to bring us up to speed with other parts of these islands. Nevertheless, I agree with the substance of the motion, and I welcome the fact that the Alliance Party has brought it to the Assembly to debate. <BR /> <BR />I will go on to discuss the specific substance of our amendment.”
“Thank you. Can I check this, Mr Deputy Speaker: do I have five minutes?”
“Will you commit that, if there are substantive proposals to bring forward an independent environmental protection agency, meaningful carbon budgets and a climate action plan, you will do your job and make sure that they are supported and implemented and can get through the Executive?”
“That is admirable concision from the deputy First Minister — I heard a lot of words during the previous part of the questions session — but it is clear that we are failing on climate and the environment. There is precious little ambition in the Programme for Government or more broadly from the Executive. We have seen the impact of climate change in the flooding of recent days. This is not a theoretical, lefty obsession; it is real and is affecting homes and businesses across the region. <BR /> <BR />Deputy First Minister, are you committed to dealing with climate change?”
“— on how they will meaningfully increase the funding for Northern Ireland Water? At the minute, it is just words.”
“— that we need to move from optimism to delivery. What does that look like? When will we actually see plans from the Executive —”
“Minister, when you were at the dinner on Thursday night — I do not begrudge you a night out — the Infrastructure Minister was on TV explaining that he does not think that there are fundamental challenges with how NI Water is funded. Clearly, there are, in that houses are not being built and major infrastructure developments in this region are being completely slowed down. You just said to your colleague that there needs to be practical action, and you just said to Paula Bradshaw —”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you give your opinion or guidance, if there is any guidance, on the absence of the First Minister from Question Time today? Is it proper, given that we will soon have the Christmas recess, that we have been given such short notice of the First Minister's absence? Is there guidance on appearance? We will not now have an opportunity to question both parts of the joint office until well into the new year.”
“I also want to reflect on Ken's huge contribution to public life here and his contribution to journalism. He showed the importance of journalism and what it can do for democracy and society when it is done right, and, my gosh, Ken Reid did it right.”
“I remember having conversations with Ken about something that we were both interested in but is, perhaps, not widely held in affection in this part of the world: real ale. Ken was a big fan of real ale, and he and I used to talk about that. <BR /> <BR />Ken was a deeply warm and authentic person, but he was a hugely respected journalist, not just by people in the Chamber or in Northern Ireland politics but by presidents, Prime Ministers and Taoisigh, all of whom sat down with him. He challenged them and brought what they had to say to an audience at a time when people needed that information and proper journalism. His passing is hugely sad for his family, and my condolences and those of my party go to Liz, his children — Gareth, Sarah and Sophie — and his grandchildren.”
“All of my conversations with Ken Reid were professional and interesting, but they were also life-enhancing because Ken, as many people know, was not just a sharp and incisive journalist. It is important to say that his warmth and good humour never stopped him from being robust and incisive, which was why audiences trusted him. Conversations with him were always life-enhancing. You could start by talking about the controversial issue of the day, such as what was going to happen with a talks process, the protocol or some falling-out that had happened at Stormont, Westminster or wherever. Quickly, you found yourself, almost organically, getting on to music or football. He was a huge fan of Cliftonville and Everton, and he was a big fan of Ballymena Rugby Club. He also talked about music, in which he was very interested.”
“By that stage, Ken was in the last couple of years of his working life and was dealing with the illness that, as others have said, he bore with such dignity and good humour.”
“<BR /> <BR />I first got to know Ken Reid personally in a previous life when I worked in London. I met Ken a couple of times and had interesting conversations with him. I then came back here to be a politician at Stormont.”