Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“Minister, it is my job to hold you to account, occasionally robustly — I am sure that you enjoy that — but, on this occasion, I acknowledge that you have a lot on your plate. Your Department is doing a lot, and there is a lot in the area of civil law reform, such as marriage, including, hopefully, no-fault divorce, and defamation. Is it not time to move responsibility for civil law from your Department to the Justice Department, where it is in almost all other jurisdictions? There is a huge amount going on — the fiscal position, the Budget, spending restraint — so why is it still with your Department? Should it not be with the Minister of Justice?”
“Minister, we have now been waiting more than seven months for meaningful progress on the inclusion strategies. A few months ago, when we had an Opposition day focused on poverty, the Opposition were dismissed and told that lots of work was happening in this area, but, as of now, we have not seen a single strategy published. We have not seen the anti-poverty strategy, the gender strategy, the disability strategy or the strategy on sexual orientation. Obviously, we did not get any detail in the Programme for Government about when they will be published. Can you be specific today and give me dates of when one or possibly all of those strategies will be published?”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Minister, the SDLP has long been a champion of city and growth deals, including when others were not so enthusiastic, so we are frustrated and disgusted by the ineptitude and chaos that we saw on Friday night, and we support the call to ensure that all city and growth deals proceed as planned. Could the Minister be specific about the conversation that she had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on Thursday, because it appears that there was a conversation about this? The Minister made representations to her. Was she aware that this had happened? Was she unaware? What was the specific ask that the Minister made, and what was her response? It is important that we, including those on the Finance Committee, understand what went wrong here.”
“That, as well as the economic impact, would have been symbolic and hugely important. It is a tragedy that it will not happen. It is a profound, multi-level failure, but, what we need to understand now from the British Government, Executive Ministers and all interested parties is when Casement Park will be built, even if, sadly, we will not have the European Championships. We cannot have siren voices from certain Benches stop the project happening now. It needs to be built, but Executive Ministers and the British Government need to tell us when and how.”
“at Casement Park. I have heard multiple Members say that they did not want to see Casement Park host the European Championships. That is the upshot. The truth is that there was no way to get Windsor Park up to spec in time for the European Championships. I am more than happy for the Member to explain to me at some point in the Chamber or elsewhere the realistic way to get Windsor Park up to spec, but I have heard no serious proposals. The only way to bring the European Championships here, to get that transformational football tournament here, was to build Casement Park. <BR /> <BR />Like Mr Honeyford, I wanted to see the transformational community impact of having Northern Ireland fans walk or get the train to Casement Park in the year of the 30th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement.”
“That is true: she did. <BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on some of the, frankly, tragic statements from the unionist Benches today. I was one of the first people in the Chamber to talk about the possibility of bringing the Euros to Belfast. I wanted to see the economic impact on the west of Belfast and the whole city; it really would have been transformational. I know that Gaels in Ulster want to see Casement Park built, but let us be clear: the massive multiplier of having the European Championships would have been incomparable in terms of economic output. However, unionism today has stood up and repeatedly said, effectively, that it did not want to see the European Championships hosted”
“I acknowledge that two SDLP Ministers progressed the project, including Nichola Mallon, who gave it planning permission in 2021”
“The failure to build Casement Park in time for the European Championships is a vast and indefensible failure of the people of west Belfast and of everyone in this city and region and the entire island of Ireland. It would have been, by any margin, the most globally significant sporting event ever to take place in this region. There are multiple levels of failure. Number one is the UK Government's failure to properly deliver on promises made. Their preposterous rushing out of the press release on a Friday night is indefensible. Number two is the years of contradictory statements and lack of clear prioritisation from Executive Ministers. Yes, as my colleague said, collapsing the institutions for five years — half of the past decade — meant that decisions could not properly be made.”
“I welcome the fact that this will be transposed, hopefully without much delay, into local law. On a related subject, has the Minister any plans to increase penalties for dog fouling? Particularly post-COVID, that has been an increased subject of interest in many local authorities.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. I am interested to hear the very interesting dissection of the politics of devolution and fiscal policy in relation to devolved entities. My assumption or thought was that the TUV completely opposes devolution in all its forms. Is that right? I thought that you did not want this Chamber to exist at all.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. This is a genuine point of interest, because I agree with him on some of the cost-of-division points. That is why we have been very loud on the issue of taking money away from integrated schools. I am genuinely interested to know this: if we are spending less per head on pupils than is being spent in GB, but we are also spending too much on education because we have too many school buildings and villages with two schools where there should be one, how do those two things marry up? Is it that we are spending too much on maintenance? How do those two things agree with one another?”
“I would also like to hear about the ambition for this place and the ambition for rescuing public services and growing our economy, with specific targets provided and not the hazy, gauzy aspirations that we got yesterday.”
“It is therefore disappointing that the motion does not talk about having agency and about the actions that can be taken here, because people do not elect us simply to deflect responsibility. Yes, by all means, we need to be clear that the British Government have not funded this place properly, and we need be clear and united in calling for a better funding settlement. The Opposition will be with the Executive parties in doing that, but we also need to see clear plans. I would like to hear from the Minister about when we will see a Budget sustainability plan and when we will have a multi-year Budget. I assume that it will be when there is one from the UK Government, but I would like to hear about those plans being in place.”
“It is largely a set of hazy, unspecific targets and aspirations rather than specific or promised outcomes with interventions and plans to deliver them. <BR /> <BR />I also note, unfortunately, although it was mentioned in the proposer's speech, that the motion does not talk about political instability, dysfunction and some of the other decisions that have not been made in Northern Ireland. We have agency. We now have a new Government, and I acknowledge that successive Tory Governments — first the Tory/Lib Dem Coalition Government and then reckless Tory Governments — did not give this place enough funding and as much as we would like and we need. We are here, however. We all sought election and have come to the Chamber to be in devolved government, and Members have taken ministerial office for the purpose of making lives better.”
“<BR /> <BR />I note, however, that it is also important that, in a devolved context, we here, particularly those who hold power on the Executive, do all in our power to maximise and improve public services and to deliver for the public who elect us here within the constraints that exist, while acknowledging and pushing against those constraints and fighting for more funding. <BR /> <BR />What I saw yesterday in the Programme for Government was not, I am afraid, a clear set of targets for the public in Northern Ireland. I look forward to a multi-year Budget, and I hope that it is aligned with the rather vague and gauzy targets in yesterday's Programme for Government. I do not agree with the Member who moved the motion that the Programme for Government represents some grand step forward in delivering for the people of Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are different technical and economic definitions of what "austerity" means, but, generally speaking, it means that the priority for public spending is fiscal restraint, constraining spending and sometimes, although, for the previous British Government, it was usually dominated by spending restraint over raising taxes, it also includes tax increases. Today's motion states that we have borne the brunt of austerity, and no one can argue with that. It is true to say, despite some of the asinine comments in earlier business, that my party has noted and been disappointed by the failure to set a proper trajectory for moving beyond austerity in UK politics and in public spending.”
“<BR /> <BR />When the Executive were restored in February of this year, the SDLP was clear that it would be supportive, cooperative and constructive in its dealings with the Executive and the Executive parties when they sought to maximise the financial settlement for Northern Ireland and make clear arguments for increased funding and a better calculation of need from the British Government. We stuck by that, and we still stick by that. That remains our position. It is clear that the Barnett calculation and the top-up that is used to calculate our funding clearly fell below the level of need. The position was, in a sense, compounded by the overarching question about the austerity policy, on which today's motion reflects.”
“I say, with some regret, that the costs of division, as far as I am aware, are not mentioned in the Programme for Government. There is therefore a point for us to reflect on, particularly those in the Executive parties. When we come to the Chamber, having tabled motion after motion in order to be declarative, they will be asked and challenged on why those motions do not match what is in Executive policy statements, the Programme for Government and other statements.”
“It is good to be back in the Chamber. It is good to be debating fiscal, financial and budgetary matters, and I look forward to doing more of that with my colleagues on the Finance Committee, several of whom have spoken today, and, indeed, with the Finance Minister. We will support the motion but not the amendment, because it is important that there is a specific and explicit reference in the motion to looking at the costs of division.”
“I do not write every letter on behalf of the Opposition. Does the Minister write every letter on behalf of the DUP? I doubt it. He received a letter from the Opposition about the policy, and he did not respond to it. Thank you, Mr Speaker.”
“My specific point of order, Mr Speaker, is that a misstatement was made about the Opposition. The Minister was asked whether he had received a letter from the Opposition, and he said no, but he has received a letter from the Opposition.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I will also endeavour to be concise, but I wish to clarify a matter. We have had a bit of political badinage and back-and-forth in the Chamber about the SDLP's role. Unlike the DUP, we have never propped up an austerity Government, and, of course, the Alliance Party's sister party, the Lib Dems, brought in austerity in the first place. May I just —?”
“Again, that event is an exemplification of what makes South Belfast so special, and it sits in stark contrast to some of the hate that we saw this summer. That event is what South Belfast and Belfast in general are and should be all about. <BR /> <BR />I also want to reflect on Lowe Memorial Church in Finaghy, which has a glorious annual fun day. They too had a really successful day on Saturday and got a great day for it. Lowe Memorial Church is another great community institution in Finaghy. Well done to them; they are a huge part of the community in South Belfast. I want to reflect on those examples of the glorious, diverse community in South Belfast in which people support one another and have a great time together, as you well know, Mr Speaker.”
“There was relatively limited support from Belfast City Council, but a lot of elbow grease, creativity and imagination went into it, and it really exemplified the best of that community. I say a huge "Thank you and well done" to the organisers and everyone who participated. <BR /> <BR />I also want to flag other community festivals in South Belfast. "Open Botanic" is happening this weekend. Botanic is an area that is also gloriously and wonderfully diverse, and people from across the world have come and made their home in the Botanic, greater Holyland and university area. There will be a day of community activity in Botanic, and I encourage people to come along. Unfortunately, I doubt that we will have the glorious weather that we had last Saturday in Ormeau park, but, no doubt, it will be a special day.”
“That part of South Belfast is cross-community in the traditional sense that we mean it in Northern Ireland, and it is a gloriously diverse community, with people from a range of national and ethnic backgrounds and people of all ages and all classes and creeds, and it was a day that allowed that community to come together in Ormeau park. It really brought out the absolute best of that part of South Belfast, which is a place that I am proud to call "home" and proud to represent as my constituency. People from that greater Ormeau Road area, including Ballynafeigh, Rosetta and Ravenhill, came together and had a wonderful day. It really was driven by people in that community.”
“On Saturday, we had a glorious day in Ormeau park. The sun was so strong, and it was so balmy. As one of those people who normally have to shelter under the awning of the beautiful oak and elm trees in Ormeau park, I put on my factor 50 and was there as a participant and volunteer at an amazing community festival called "Ballynafest". <BR /> <BR />I want to reflect on Ballynafest and the amazing hard work of the volunteers. It is entirely volunteer-led, and it was a wonderful, glorious community day. There was a range of activities, including music, a petting zoo and circus entertainers.”
“Earlier today, Minister, you said that you would not be proceeding with stand-alone hate crime legislation. That comes after a summer of some of the most shocking race hate that the region has seen. I think that many people in ethnic minority communities and religious minorities will feel let down. How can you say that there is not enough time to proceed with a stand-alone hate crime Bill when, today and tomorrow, we will spend hours debating non-binding Executive party motions?”
“We are now getting to the heart of it: clearly, in certain specific and very important areas, there is not Executive agreement. That is fine, but it has taken us a few hours to get to that point. <BR /> <BR />Something that is not mentioned at all in the draft Programme for Government is the language commissioner and the associated strategy and work. After consultation, and if the Irish language bodies and other interested parties give very strong representations that they would like to see that included, will it be included in an updated Programme for Government?”
“Earlier, deputy First Minister, I asked for specifics on waiting list reductions, but, I am afraid, I did not get them. Having had a little longer to look through the 80-odd-page document and some of the supporting documents, can I ask you to point to a single, specific new target that the Executive have agreed to in the Programme for Government that is measurable and which the public can judge you by?”
“The constructive Opposition have been constructive in calling for a Programme for Government for months now. We welcome the fact that one has been published, but we have also been clear that the people of Northern Ireland expected clear targets and clear plans to deliver. <BR /> <BR />On page 27 of the Programme for Government, there is a chart that lists the increase in patients waiting for a consultant appointment. The number went from 70,000 in 2008-09 to 428,000 in the most recent year, but I cannot find anywhere in the document a specific target to reduce those times and waiting lists. Will the deputy First Minister please point me to such a target in the document?”
“Was it not wonderful to see, in recent weeks, athletes from this place standing proudly under both 'Amhrán na bhFiann' and 'God Save the King' as they won medals and did us all proud? It should not be hard to celebrate the new diversity in our society, which sees people coming from all over the world to enrich and contribute to it. They are us. They are us, not the hate-filled yobs who rampaged through the streets of my constituency last Saturday. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I say to the Muslim community and the wider minority community in Northern Ireland not just that we are with you but that you are us. You are part of us, you will continue to be part of us, we will defend you and we will support you. Thank you.”
“If ever there was a moment that proves that we need an updated racial equality strategy, it is now. We also need stand-alone hate crime legislation, and I welcome the commitment from the Justice Minister to progress that speedily. <BR /> <BR />Thirdly, it is clear that we need robust action at a national and international level on the wild west of social media: on people who spew hate on it and on those who seek to derive power and influence from the people who are spewing hate. <BR /> <BR />In recent years, we have almost lost sight of how enriching and glorious the increasing diversity of Northern Ireland has been, in part because we are a bit hung up on the historic diversity and division that we have inherited.”
“It is also clear that there has been a gradual erosion of confidence among members of the Muslim community in the ability of the police to deal with hate crime. Some of that is clearly happening in the context of depleted resources, but it means that the policing response needs to be robust and immediate, and prosecutions need to be swift. I want to hear more about what the police are doing and how the Public Prosecution Service seeks to bring forward prosecutions swiftly. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, we need robust action from the Executive. I welcome the fact that the Executive are meeting today, but we need to see clear, deliverable actions in the coming weeks and months and before the end of the mandate. First, we need — finally — an updated racial equality strategy. We have been waiting nearly a decade for one.”
“<BR /> <BR />In that part of Belfast, there are small businesses and small business owners, such as Rahmi Akyol, who has been in Belfast for more than three decades and runs his shisha cafe on lower Botanic Avenue. Rahmi has contributed jobs and services to that part of Belfast for decades. He has contributed immeasurably more than the hate-filled thugs who rampaged through the streets and sought to destroy his business and to intimidate him and his customers. <BR /> <BR />What therefore do we need to do now? Regarding a response, we need to do three broad things. First, we need to ensure that there is a robust policing response. It is clear that members of ethnic minority communities, and specifically the Muslim community, have real and profound questions about the policing of Saturday's events.”
“It is in the heart of one of the most diverse areas of not just this city or region but probably the whole island of Ireland. Students and academics who study and research at Queen's enhance and enrich that community. There are medical staff — doctors and nurses — working at the City Hospital right now to save lives. They were working to save lives last Saturday afternoon when a racist mob charged through that part of Belfast destroying property, intimidating them and seeking to spread their hate. Not only is that unacceptable but it is a profound failure of those people to understand the contribution that migrants make to this society, specifically given the Islamophobic context of those who were campaigning on Saturday.”
“First, I associate my party with the unequivocal condemnations of the race hate that we have seen on our streets in recent days. I also welcome members of the Muslim community who are sitting in the Public Gallery today listening to us. We owe them not just a welcome but an apology for what they and their community have had to endure in this society and this city over recent weeks and days. I say to them, "Sorry, but also thank you. Thank you for what your community and the people from all communities who have come to this society offer us every single day and continue to offer us. We are in your debt". <BR /> <BR />When I became an MLA for South Belfast, I had a choice of where to locate my constituency office. I am proud that my office is located in the middle of University Street.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Minister, you said that a decision has not been made, but the reporting is clearly that you are minded to appeal and that that was the argument that you made to Executive colleagues. It is important to acknowledge that, given the timelines that you have outlined, you are seeking to leave office in 48 hours' time, so you may not be there to make the decision. People expect honesty and humility from their public representatives. I acknowledge the constitutional context in which you made your argument, but, given the representations from advocates of a free press and victims of sexual crime, do you continue to support post-death anonymity for sex offenders?”
“— by pushing yesterday's monitoring round.”
“That, apparently, was routine business. Minister, with respect, you are taking us for fools, and you and your Department have jeopardised Civil Service integrity and impartiality —”
“Your position is that four days' difference would have jeopardised public services. You also say that a routine report, setting out consultation responses without any policy intent, could not be published because of the pre-election period but that it was totally normal and routine business to have an exceptional Monday-morning Executive meeting, for three podiums to be set out in the Great Hall for you, the First Minister and deputy First Minister to have a press conference —.”
“Minister, in the centre of Belfast at what is now, somewhat ridiculously, known as the Tribeca project, there are perhaps hundreds of thousands of pounds or even more in forgone rates, either through reliefs or through properties progressively being allowed to get into dereliction. That project has still not been developed, getting on for 20 years afterwards. Will you, with Land and Property Services (LPS), officials in other Departments and Belfast City Council, look at how the rating system can properly target getting that area of Belfast back off its knees to be the destination that it needs to be?”
“<BR /> <BR />We welcome the fact that new allocations have been made to the health service, schools and roads, but, for it to mean something in the long term and for it properly to build and rebuild our public services, it has to come alongside a strategic, multi-year Programme for Government with costs, targets and timelines. <BR /> <BR />That is what the official Opposition have called for over the past five months, and it is what we will continue to call for in our work following recess.”
“When we return to the Chamber in September, we will, hopefully, have a Programme for Government in the not-too-distant future. We will have a new UK Government, which, hopefully, will be about to deliver or, perhaps, will even have already delivered a comprehensive spending review. At that point, there will be no more excuses for the Executive not to give us a comprehensive multi-year plan. There will be no more excuses for simply divvying out money and party-political stunts a few days out from an election. The public of the North will expect to see a proper, costed, thought-through plan to rescue public services.”
“The Minister has, in fairness, acknowledged that she will seek to regularise much of that spending. <BR /> <BR />The argument for accelerated passage of the Budget Bill, which the Finance Committee has agreed to, is ,habitually and perennially, that if we do not do it, the money will run out. We need to get slightly real about claiming all the time that money is about to run out. It is particularly the case when, effectively, that argument was made yesterday for rushing through a monitoring round three days ahead of an election. We are slightly taking people for fools to believe that key public services are going to fall over if spending allocations are made on a Friday as opposed to a Monday. <BR /> <BR />We need to get real about strategic policymaking and strategic policy setting.”
“<BR /> <BR />We do not even know that the First Minister and deputy First Minister are committed to staying in their jobs, because neither of them will commit to not resigning from their roles and collapsing the Executive, let alone engage in a serious discussion about reform of these institutions. <BR /> <BR />To cover some of the detail that we are debating, yesterday's Main Estimates included a very large set of what is sometimes called "black-box spending". It is more technically called "spending under the sole authority of the Budget Act"; that is, spending that is happening because there is no specific legislative authorisation for that spending. It is too large. Much of that funding is essential, including on welfare mitigations, but it would be helpful if it could be regularised.”
“Did it represent a strategic plan for how we rescue public services, how we grow our economy, how we ease economic inactivity, how we reduce waiting lists and how we rescue Lough Neagh and tackle our biodiversity and ecological crisis? It did not do any of those things. It did not set a strategic plan by which the people of Northern Ireland can judge the Executive. We welcome the fact that allocations were made. We welcome the fact that there is increased funding for certain areas, but, until there is a Programme for Government with meaningful targets and multi-year budgets attached to them, it will be hard for the people of this region to properly conclude that the Executive are serious about change.”
“This is the last opportunity, before we break for the summer recess, to have a robust conversation about where we are as a devolved Administration; what plans we are setting for the people who sent us here; what aspirations we have for them and the public services that they require but that are in a desperate state; where we want to go; and the vision that we want to provide for them. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, we saw a June monitoring round that allocated money that is, in and of itself, welcome, despite the fact that it happened in clear breach, in my view, of basic Civil Service rules three days out from an election in what was a fairly shabby display of party politicking. However, did it represent a strategic plan for the people of the North?”
“There was a very useful evidence session with the different economic policy groups and think tanks that covered a whole range of questions relating to revenue raising and Executive financing more generally. I am sure that the Minister's officials will have watched that evidence session and taken those points into account. <BR /> <BR />Sadly, my contribution has been an all-too-brief account of the themes arising from the Committee's engagement on this Budget. However, the full report can be found on the Committee's web pages. On behalf of the Committee for Finance, I confirm that the Committee supports the Bill and, as I said earlier, endorses its accelerated passage. <BR /> <BR />I will now make some remarks in my capacity as leader of the Opposition, having said quite a lot as Chair of the Finance Committee.”
“The Committee would happily — I say this in my role of leader of the Opposition too — support the Minister and her officials in that endeavour. <BR /> <BR />The Nevin Economic Research Institute suggests that revenue raising is not the answer to our budgetary challenges but, rather, that the devolved Administrations need to be properly empowered by the British Government to work. The Fiscal Council states that an increase in the regional rate would need to be significant to make an impact on the Budget, while the Ulster University economic policy centre suggested that new ideas around rates might be worthwhile considering for revenue raising.”
“We were told that local provision does not always equate to the best provision. <BR /> <BR />Fiscal issues and revenue raising have been brought into focus by the Executive restoration package settlement. The Fiscal Council has highlighted that the settlement is providing 5% of this Budget. The council believes that the level of in-year transfers to Departments in 2023-24 highlights the underfunding that NI faces. That is an issue that the Committee's Deputy Chair highlighted in the Supply resolution debate yesterday. We are pleased that the interim fiscal framework confirms the fiscal floor at 24% going forward. We must all strive to provide appropriate proof that that is still not efficient, and we would welcome its being higher. That was in evidence presented to the Committee.”