Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“It is hard to follow that tribute from Ken's friend and former colleague, Mike Nesbitt, which I think really sums up the esteem in which Ken Reid was held not just by Mike but by his colleagues and all in this region and, indeed, further afield. Like others, I grew up watching Ken Reid on TV. On UTV, he was a fixture talking about, first, the political process, which then became a peace process and then these institutions, and everything that has flowed from that. Some of it has been wonderful and transformative, and some of it has been, at times, depressing, frustrating and alarming. Through all that, the public, whatever their perspective and whatever their background, trusted Ken Reid. He was a credit not only to the broadcaster that he worked for but to journalism, because he built trust and authenticity, as Mike Nesbitt said.”
“Minister, in response to a question for written answer from me, you said that you were committed to proceeding with the reform of the reasonable belief defence in rape cases, as per the Gillen review. Specifically, will the reform that you are looking at include a change to the way in which a jury can ascertain in a court proceeding how and whether the defendant specifically sought consent?”
“Minister, I was startled by this statement. In the past 20 years, we have had, I think, four reviews of environmental governance and, in that time, we have seen Europe's worst environmental crime at Mobuoy and one of the most startling examples of environmental degradation at Lough Neagh. Your party's 2022 manifesto said that you would set up an independent environmental protection agency. It did not say that you would set up a panel or consult on whether to set up an environmental protection agency: it said that you would set up such an agency. Are you running scared from actually delivering on environmental protection, and is it not the case that if this panel reviews on, maybe, whether to set up an environmental protection agency by next summer, there is no chance whatsoever of it passing into law by the end of this mandate?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. May I suggest, in that case, that he and other parties implore their colleagues to show up and participate in our debates? When we have had four hours to spend, the time has often been used up simply because Members did not turn up to debate. I appreciate that he is not one of those Members, but that is one of the reasons why we have four motions today.”
“It is time for us to take action. I hope that the Minister will do so with her colleagues in Belfast City Council, and I commend the motion. Let us finally get on and do something about this blot that is in the middle of our city.”
“We in the Finance Committee are always shaking our heads about how much of that we give back. We have given back more than £300 million of financial transactions capital in the past half a dozen years. It is not grant funding and cannot simply be given to build a railway or a school; it has to go to an entity that is capable of completing a financial transaction. Why not look at a Laganside-style corporation, perhaps with commercial involvement, that could use unspent financial transactions capital to vest that site, which is now known as Tribeca, get it into proper hands and make use of it commercially, culturally and historically in order to properly celebrate the Enlightenment history of that part of the city, get rid of the dereliction, move on and turn the page on decades of shameful dereliction in that part of the Cathedral Quarter?”
“and, my God, we have a problem with landbanking. We also want a specific look at how we can revitalise and make use of the extraordinary opportunity of that part of the city. We are in the Northern Ireland Assembly now, but this Building is but a boy compared with the Assembly Rooms in the middle of the Cathedral Quarter. It is rich in radical history, including that of the dissenting Presbyterian tradition of 18th-century Belfast. We are allowing it to literally and shamefully fall into ruin. <BR /> <BR />This is not in our motion, but, today, we have put forward a specific proposal. I am happy for the Minister to explain to me why she thinks it is not a goer, as long as she and her colleagues are thinking about an alternative. We think that you could look at financial transactions capital (FTC).”
“It is not acceptable, and I do not believe that it would be accepted in any other major city on these islands. Can you imagine if this were the case in Dublin, London, Manchester or Glasgow? Of course, there is dereliction in those cities, but it is not to this extent and not in a such a strategically important place. <BR /> <BR />What do we do about it? Our motion calls for a number of things. It calls for the Minister of Finance to start to "address city centre dereliction" not just in Belfast and at the Tribeca site but throughout the region. It affects other places. We want to look at a:”
“Answers to questions that I asked of LPS have highlighted a shocking level of rates that has been forgone or given to the owners of those properties via reliefs that should not have been due. We have lost millions of pounds in rates revenue. <BR /> <BR />What is happening with this site? We simply do not know, is the honest answer. I do not want to spend all of this brief debate talking about the intentions or wishes of the current owners of the Tribeca site, because, frankly, I think that a little too much energy has been wasted on that already. I want to have a constructive and clear conversation about where we go from here, because it is simply not acceptable for us to allow such dereliction in the middle of the major city of this region to continue.”
“There has been enormous improvement in what is now known as the Cathedral Quarter. In our hospitality and cultural offering, it is the go-to part of the city for visitors, but, right in the middle of it, there is a blot that stretches from Royal Avenue to St Anne's Cathedral. If you walk around there — I am sure that Members have done so, given that the issue does not just affect Members who represent the city of Belfast but is relevant to our entire region — you will see dereliction, antisocial behaviour and broken glass. You will see some of the most historic buildings in Ireland falling progressively into disrepair. It is obviously and self-evidently an eyesore, but it is not just that. It is robbing us of rates that we might have if productive businesses or houses were there and even from the properties that are there at the minute.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I hope that people will see today as a robust and productive Opposition day, when we have put accountability on the record but also dealt with substantive policy issues. In our final motion of the day, the question that we will debate is not simply a local Belfast issue but something that affects the whole region, because our major city is a key economic and cultural driver of this region. None of us should be relaxed about the state of Belfast city centre. <BR /> <BR />A gateway project to revitalise the north-east quarter of Belfast city centre was first proposed 25 years ago, in 1999. Shockingly, not only has that part of the city — specifically, what is now known as the Tribeca Quarter or district — not been revitalised but it has fallen into the most appalling disrepair.”
“I am impressed with the Minister's list. I was not suggesting that he had not done any other work. I think that he would note that we have acknowledged that he has taken action and made progress. <BR /> <BR />Since he mentioned Sure Start specifically, I will say that it provides a fantastic service. One thing that it has been challenged with is lack of funding over multiple years. Is the Minister working with the Finance Minister in order to, hopefully, secure a longer-term funding profile for Sure Start centres across Northern Ireland so that they can be guaranteed funding for multiple years?”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. On the childcare subsidy scheme, does the Member agree with me — a parent of a young child in childcare — that it is a positive step forward, as we have acknowledged to the Minister, but we need more than that? We need a comprehensive strategy that is a long-term solution, not simply one intervention.”
“Minister, will you be clear about the announcement that you have said that you will make in the coming weeks? Will you proceed with the Glider route or with additional bus routes? Like North Belfast, South Belfast, particularly along the corridor up the Saintfield Road towards Carryduff, is very congested, and air quality and congestion get worse as one goes down that road. Will the announcement be about an increase in bus routes or about the Glider route being delivered?”
“I appreciate the disquisition on the Alliance Party: I am always up for that. However, given the Member's views about the democratic consent process and the scrutiny Committee, does he agree that having some kind of representation in the EU Parliament would be a positive step forward?”
“Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I appreciate the extra minute, and I appreciate the opportunity to outline that, yes, we should take every opportunity to maximise the benefits. <BR /> <BR />I believe strongly in a European future, but I want the best for all of our citizens here. Whether they are EU citizens proudly or not, I want the best for all of our people under our unique status. In this place, we did not choose Brexit, but we have managed to protect ourselves from the worst consequences of Brexit. Let us go further. Let us maximise those opportunities, and let us ensure that our voice is heard where we need it to be heard. I commend the motion to the Assembly.”
“Gibraltar has never been in the UK, but it was part of the EU and was bound by EU law until Brexit and so voted in European parliamentary elections. Multiple accession countries have enjoyed observer status. Those examples demonstrate that there are precedents and possibilities. To those who are opposed, I simply say, "Why not?". In this place, we did not —.”
“Our party makes no bones about being the most pro-European party in the North and, indeed, about our aspiration to rejoin the EU, but I have also listened to MLAs and others outside the Chamber, including former Members, lament what they see as the undemocratic nature of the protocol. I presume, then, that they will be happy to support our call for Northern Ireland to be represented in the European Parliament. Whether you want to rejoin the EU, as I do, or simply think that our voice should be heard, we ask for your support. There are multiple routes to this happening and multiple examples of non-member states being represented. West Berlin sent MEPs to the European Parliament despite not being in the Community, as it was then.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are other cross-border disruptions: financial services; data, including geo-blocking for sport fans; and other regulatory and tax problems that face frontier workers. The protocol itself, signed by the UK, promised in article 11 to ensure that the conditions for North/South cooperation were maintained. Let us hold them to that. <BR /> <BR />All of those things and, indeed, getting progress on softening east-west disruption would be made more straightforward and, indeed, more accountable, if Northern Ireland had representation in the European Parliament.”
“I note that some of the wording is a little clumsy. The Alliance Party has successfully courted soft nationalist opinion, but the way that its amendment is phrased indicates that people come "to Northern Ireland from Ireland". That is interesting phrase, and, if you want to continue courting soft nationalists, I encourage you to keep using such language. That would certainly be in our interests. In any case, let us be clear: the appalling policy decision to press forward with the electronic travel authorisation (ETA), potentially devastating tourism in Ireland, is an example of why the British Government needed to be put to the pin of their collar on the original protocol. We make no bones about the fact that we did that, and we will continue to do that.”
“We also have another treaty right enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement and clarified by our former party leader Mark Durkan when he was an MP, which is that Northern Ireland, uniquely in the UK and, indeed, uniquely on the continent, has an automatic legal route to rejoining the EU via a referendum on a new Ireland. To be clear, that is not what today's debate is about, but it illustrates why we are entitled to speak up not just for a European future in the long term but for a joint effort by the UK and EU to maximise the benefits as we mitigate the challenges of our position. Those challenges also include a wide range of new disruptions to cross-border life in the all-island economy. <BR /> <BR />Let me say briefly that we will, of course, support the Alliance Party amendment, which adds to our motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />We think that the independent review process, assuming that one takes place, is the perfect place to start that work, but this is not simply about pounds and pence or euros and cents; it is about the extraordinary opportunities for young people, universities and wider civic society and maximising our access to European programmes and European cooperation. For example, while it is welcome that Northern Irish students can participate in ERASMUS via higher education institutions in the South, we want to see Northern institutions fully participating again. We are, after all, bound to the EU not only by the obligations of the protocol but by the fact that our people — our citizens — have a permanent right to EU citizenship by dint of birthright.”
“Of course, we all want to see continued efforts to ensure that the movement of goods between Britain and Northern Ireland is as smooth as possible, but, if there is to be an independent review, it must look at the challenges and opportunities of our post-Brexit arrangements in total. That means maximising the investment and growth potential of our dual market access. It means ensuring that the EU and the UK are on the same page when encouraging and facilitating that investment. I have been among the loudest and most vociferous advocates of the opportunities from dual market access, but it will take more than local politicians talking; it will need policymakers in Brussels, London and Dublin to be fully engaged in helping us to benefit from our position.”
“Before the end of this year, the Assembly will have an opportunity to vote on the protocol, now often referred to as the "Windsor framework". Unlike a lot of the votes that we have in this place, this one will mean something. It is a vote that will not simply pass into the ether; it will have specific consequences. It is provided for in international law, and, assuming that it passes with a simple majority, as, most expect, it will, the UK Government have said that that will trigger a process of reviewing how the protocol works. <BR /> <BR />How should that review look? What should it look at? The consent motion is short and simply acts to confirm or reject the continued application of articles 5 to 10 of the protocol.”
“Does my colleague agree that it is notable and, perhaps, fitting that not only did those Ministers not attend NSMC meetings but, today, they have not even shown up here for accountability?”
“If the Member thinks that no unionist should be here, why is he here?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. We are highlighting an issue, but it is true to say that the Commissioner for Standards' report came out only in July of this year. We are not looking to have a fight or to score points. Rather, we are trying to set standards for the future.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. I agree with him, but does he agree that, thus far, the AERC has done virtually nothing about reform? It has met once and has not discussed any type of reform.”
“They are not here: they have not turned up to engage in that simple ask and show accountability to the Assembly Chamber. That, I am afraid, says it all. It is why our role in opposition is so important. Even if it makes people in and outside the Chamber uncomfortable, we intend to keep doing it in the public interest. <BR /> <BR />I commend the motion to the Assembly. I reiterate the need for real accountability, real reform and an end to the politics of boycott.”
“Reform is needed not just of the veto that allows one party to collapse the operation of strand one of devolution but of the system that requires a Minister to have a chaperone for a routine meeting with their southern counterpart, which is how the DUP was able to thwart the NSMC for so long. Sadly, neither area of reform is likely to make progress any time soon, because both big parties see continued advantage in a system that offers them not just a veto power but a shield from accountability. That is, once again, on display because, as I look to the ministerial Benches, I see that neither the First Minister nor the deputy First Minister, or even the junior Ministers, is here to respond to the debate, despite the motion clearly calling on the First Minister and the deputy First Minister to explore reform of strands one and two.”
“That logic has seen us without a Government for half of the past decade. The collapse of the NSMC is part of that. It is pernicious. Strand 2 of the agreement is designed to be equal and interlocking with strands one and three, and it is important to make that point as often as possible. The NSMC was not and is not a bauble. It is supposed to be as core to the functioning of our Government as the Chamber and the Executive, so collapsing it for party political ends was never a legitimate action. The NSMC had no role at all in Brexit or the UK's withdrawal from the European Union. <BR /> <BR />That brings us back to the question on which the two big parties refuse to engage: reform.”
“That is not to say that those sanctions cannot be used in the future, but it is to say that our motion is about registering clear condemnation, affirming the centrality of the NSMC to these institutions and looking forward to solutions. It is not about scoring points; it is about accountability. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to accountability, people may remember the words of Tony McGleenan KC, who was defence counsel for several of the affected Ministers. He argued in court that a judicial remedy to the boycott was not appropriate back then because the Assembly was there to hold Ministers to account. Well, after two years of it being down, here we are. There is a broader point here about the legitimacy of using boycotts, which cripple the operation of government, as a legitimate political tool.”
“That gets to the heart of the breach and why it matters. Politics in this place is held in low esteem. People believe that parties in the Assembly, particularly the larger ones, believe that they can do what they like and face minimal or no consequences. All too often, that is true. There is a crisis of accountability in our politics. That was in evidence recently when the First Minister felt that she could instruct a Committee Chair on what could and could not be asked during scrutiny by a Statutory Committee. Part of our job in opposition is to effect a change in that culture. It is worth pointing out that, while the rules of the Assembly now provide for more stringent penalties, including formal censure or even exclusion, our motion today does not do that.”
“Indeed, in her report, the ministerial standards commissioner is clear that the decision to proceed with the boycott in clear knowledge that it was unlawful exacerbated the breach. <BR /> <BR />To quote the commissioner:”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Since we took up the mantle of opposition, we have been clear that we will be constructive in putting forward positive ideas. Today, in our final Opposition day of 2024, we are doing just that on EU affairs, childcare and dereliction in the heart of Belfast. We also said that we would be robust in holding those in power to account. Today we are doing that, too. <BR /> <BR />In July this year, a report from the ministerial standards commissioner found that five different DUP Ministers had breached the ministerial code by failing to attend a range of NSMC meetings in late 2021. That finding is, of course, hardly surprising, given that the High Court ruled that those actions were totally unlawful, but that did not stop the boycott continuing in 2021.”
“There is a lot of double-talk in this place and in society about how those things intersect. The PSNI and the UN acknowledged that loyalist paramilitaries were involved in facilitating that violence. We are told that they have denied it at an organisational level, but it is pretty clear to anyone who is in a position of authority that loyalist paramilitaries were involved in facilitating those actions. Of course, their representatives still get meetings with Ministers. What message are we sending? <BR /> <BR />Let us get real. I welcome the motion, but it has to be followed up with real action, legislation, an updated review and finally being serious about clamping down on all forms of hate. I commend the motion, but let us have some action after the motion and the warm words.”
“It is about the lives of people in my constituency and this community. It is about kids of colour who are being targeted and families who are being burnt out. Words are great, but they are not enough. <BR /> <BR />Let us come back to words. My constituency colleague Kate Nicholl is right in what she says about the conflation of legitimate concerns. Working-class communities across the city have legitimate concerns about housing, economic opportunity and education. It is our job to come here and deal with those concerns. Conflating those concerns with racial violence is an offence to those working-class communities and the people of colour who face violence and intimidation. Let us stop that. <BR /> <BR />Let us also be honest about the ways in which that racist violence intersects with paramilitarism.”
“What did we expect to see in the aftermath? We expected to see an updated racial equality strategy. We have not got it yet. We expected to see an updated refugee integration strategy. We have not got that yet. We would have liked to see progress and urgency, including from the Justice Minister, on a stand-alone hate crime Bill. <BR /> <BR />It has already been said that we need to beef up hate crime legislation. By the way, that is not some lefty woke theory about having hate crime legislation for its own sake. It is about giving the police the powers to apprehend and tackle not only people who spew race hate online but those who, as happened in my constituency in the past week, chuck masonry through the window of a terraced house, covering a child in glass. That is not about theory.”
“Some people travelled up on the train from Dublin, while some came from other parts of this island and elsewhere in the North, to display their hate. They are not wanted in Belfast. They were rejected by the diverse community of South Belfast, and, yes, they were rejected here days later. It is also worth saying, as Deirdre Hargey did, that they were rejected by the working-class people of South Belfast. The community in the lower Ormeau stood against them, as, it has to be said, did loyalist parts of the constituency. I will come back to that point, because others are speaking for those people's community. <BR /> <BR />We all came in here a few days later, and we talked about how awful it was, and it was awful, but we are not paid just to talk. We are not a debating society; we are legislators. People are here to govern.”
“In August, we witnessed a violent mob rampage through the streets of Belfast, specifically South Belfast. Several of my constituency colleagues have already spoken today about what happened. I spoke at the anti-racism rally, at which our numbers vastly outweighed those on the side of hate. People brandished the tricolour and the Union Jack to display hate, which should be offensive to people who treasure those flags. The anti-racist numbers vastly outweighed those of the racists. It was not just frustrating but disgusting to see people who had nothing but hate on their mind rampaging through South Belfast, which is my constituency, and, specifically, the university and Holylands area, which is where my constituency office is situated and the most diverse part of the constituency.”
“I welcome the fact that we are debating the subject today. I raised it yesterday with the deputy First Minister. I, and, I am sure, others in the Chamber, will keep raising the question of what, practically and specifically, we are doing to tackle the growing scourge of not just race hate but racially aggravated violence in this society. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we back up our words with actions. If we do not, people will ultimately think that this is simply a Potemkin Parliament: a Chamber in which we fill the air with words but in which nothing ever happens. Since we returned in February, we have done a lot of that. It is a cold day outside, but we could warm our hands on some of the words that have been used today. <BR /> <BR />Let us therefore hear about some specifics.”
“Thank you, First Minister, for the update. The October monitoring round, which was published yesterday by the Finance Minister, includes two reduced requirements relating to matters that were discussed at the NSMC plenary meeting. One is the graduate entry medical school at Magee. The other is the A5 transport corridor, which specifically relates to money given by the Irish Government. That money is now being handed back to the centre because it has not been spent in this financial year. There may be reasonable explanations for that, but are there any live discussions about better communication, North and South, on shared priorities and whether multi-year funding can be agreed on, including Shared Island funding?”
“Where there are difficult questions or challenges and people who need to be brought with us, be they consumers, those in the industry or those in agriculture, we need to be honest. We also need to establish a just transition, which is why I welcome yesterday's announcement on the establishment of the just transition commission, but we need to pick up the pace and start delivering.”
“We are far behind the curve not just in meeting its targets for achieving decarbonisation and net zero by 2030 but in delivering the plans to get to those targets. For example, the Climate Change Act called for a set of carbon budgets, enabled by a climate action plan. We are a year overdue on both those things. We had an update from the Environment Minister yesterday, but a lot of what we got was about plans, discussions and the hint of something in the coming weeks that might be placed before the Executive. <BR /> <BR />I think that the Environment Minister is serious about that agenda and he wants to deliver on it, but we need more progress. We need the plans to be brought before the Executive to be agreed and then brought to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, we have been a laggard in dealing with climate change; that much is clear. We also have been complacent about biodiversity loss and ecological breakdown. Lough Neagh, the largest body of water in the UK and Ireland, is the most shocking example of that. Over the past couple of summers, people have seen the appalling breakdown at Lough Neagh in shocking and almost sci-fi terms. <BR /> <BR />Meeting our climate targets and recovering lost nature and biodiversity should be at the top of the Executive's agenda. It should also be our focus in the Assembly, but progress has been painfully slow. Although it is true that we passed the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, we are far behind on delivering on the Act's commitments.”
“Climate change was discussed in the Chamber yesterday. COP29 is happening this week in Azerbaijan. We know that the international context for climate change is threatened, because, globally, we are missing our targets, though there is an extraordinary amount of desire to reach those among the public, particularly young people, including those in Northern Ireland, and societies in the developed and developing world that are already facing the impacts of climate change. In the past couple of weeks, we have seen tropical storms in southern parts of the United States. We have also seen huge devastation and loss of life in Spain, specifically Valencia. Climate change is here, and it is not only damaging property but uprooting people's lives and causing loss of life.”
“Specifically, when will those issues be brought to and discussed at the Executive? Will they be published and brought to the Assembly before the end of 2024?”
“Maybe it is age and I am not as quick on my feet as I thought I was, but thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I obviously do not run as many marathons as the Agriculture and Environment Minister. <BR /> <BR />Minister, thank you for your statement. There is a bit of a disjunction here. Your answers mention urgency in addressing climate change, but there is some slowness of pace inside your Department and historically. You said that international partners admired our approach. Perhaps that was at the drinks reception after they had had a glass or two, because I would love to meet anyone who is serious about climate change who admires Northern Ireland's approach. You said that, in the coming weeks, you will bring forward carbon budgets, and you also said that you will bring forward a climate action plan.”
“Minister, I do not doubt your commitment to this, but since we have come back, we have not seen progress on a stand-alone hate crime Bill from the Justice Minister, nor have we seen the publication of a racial equality strategy. We do not know when we are going to get a refugee integration strategy, and I am afraid that we do not have clarity on whether good relations money is going to be specifically directed towards getting outcomes for people like those in my constituency who face being hounded out of their homes, or where kids are being injured with glass because masonry is thrown through their front windows. I am afraid that we do, now, need to move beyond warm words and see practical action. May I ask whether we will see delivery and more specifics from the Executive in all the areas that I have listed by the end of this year?”
“Deputy First Minister, you said that it is important that nothing happens on the site that gives offence to victims. I agree, but the problem is that nothing is happening on the site at all. The saga of the Maze/Long Kesh development has been going on longer than 'The Mousetrap'. It has been sitting there, a wasting asset. If the Executive Office cannot progress it, I suggest that two things happen: one, a simple, poignant memorial is put up for all those who want to remember at that site; two, the rest of it is given over to social housing or some other productive form of economic development, because this farce cannot continue indefinitely.”