Matthew O'Toole
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I appreciate my colleague's giving way. Unfortunately, I was not here for all of the Minister's remarks — like her, I have been in the Chamber for a lot of today, so I had to pop out and attend to some other business. I presume that the Member will agree that these provisions could be more properly included in the Sentencing Bill.”
“Clearly, however, the regulatory and enforcement regime for all those watercourses and marine environments is way out of date ecologically and, indeed, economically.”
“We learned about the antics of Jeffrey Donaldson that were not criminal — so far — only after his conviction. Reporters have been able to go and find that information and people have been able to speak — felt able to speak — because Mr Donaldson has been sent to prison, convicted of appalling crimes, and is therefore less likely to seek r…”
“We are pleased, in broad terms, to support it at Second Stage. We welcome the move towards an approach to fisheries management that is ecosystem-based rather than narrowly species-based.”
“We were robust in opposing those who were not willing to deal with the nutrients action plan, for example, which should have been a core part of dealing with Lough Neagh. Of course, the farming industry needed to be engaged, and the Minister has been doing a lot of that work recently.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In just a few hours' time, the House will go into recess for more than two months. There are two outstanding and grave matters that the public in Northern Ireland want us to deal with, but we are walking away, so I want your advice on Standing Orders.”
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“Section 64(1) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 states:”
“As the Committee's letter indicated, the request for accelerated passage is predicated on the Committee agreeing that there has been "appropriate consultation" as per Standing Order 42(2). Additionally, granting accelerated passage to the Bill will compromise paragraph 20 of strand one of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, which states:”
“Members trust that, in the future, the Committee will enjoy a much more appropriate level of scrutiny of Budgets and other aspects of the Department's work. Perhaps the Minister will say more about that during her winding-up speech. <BR /> <BR />Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, as you are aware, I wrote to the Speaker, on behalf of the Committee, to highlight the Minister's request for accelerated passage for the Bill following the briefing that Committee members received on Wednesday 14 February. At that point, the Committee had not had sight of the Bill. As you are aware, the Committee and other Members did not receive the Bill until late on Friday afternoon.”
“As well as welcoming the Minister to her role, I commend my colleague Ms McLaughlin. That is what we mean by constructive opposition: helping people out where necessary. <BR /> <BR />First, I will speak in my capacity as Chair of the Finance Committee. In that role, I will present the views of the Committee and its perspective. I thank the Minister for her comments, and, on behalf of the whole Committee, I congratulate her on her appointment. The Committee wants to build on its relationship with the Minister on the basis of openness, candour and good communication. <BR /> <BR />The nature of today's proceedings and the Minister's request for accelerated passage of the Budget Bill 2024 mean that we are not necessarily where we would have wanted to be.”
“I agree with the First Minister that we need fundamentally to reform the institutions on the basis of the rules, but, until we do that, only two people — you and the deputy First Minister — can prevent the institutions collapsing. First Minister, when the DUP collapsed the institutions, you said that it was "utterly contemptible, cruel and self-serving". You said that it was punishing the public and using our people as ransom. You said that it threatened our democracy. I agree with you on all those things, so why do you insist on your party's retaining that veto?”
“First Minister, notwithstanding the current debate and discussions around the fiscal package, Executive parties have been in discussions around developing a Programme for Government for, I think, around 18 months now in a parallel process to other talks. Can you give us a date for when the Programme for Government will be published?”
“We need a properly transformed way of doing Budget scrutiny in this place, and the Executive and, indeed, the Department need to stop treating this place with a degree of, at best, patronisation and, at worst, mild contempt in how we do scrutiny. We need to do our jobs properly and, critically, from the public's perspective, be seen to do that. Therefore, it is important to lay down a marker with this suspension of Standing Orders. For those of you who are new to the Chamber, this is going much further than we normally go in ramming through a Budget Bill.”
“Arguments have and will be made about what will happen if we do not proceed with suspending Standing Orders, and I will say something about accelerated passage in my role as Chair of the Finance Committee, but it is important to say that we cannot simply go on for ever and a day rushing through spending legislation in this place. We are not just granting accelerated passage, which is pretty commonplace for Budget Bills, but we are suspending Standing Orders. Although we will not push this suspension of Standing Orders to a Division, we do not support it. It is not only suboptimal; it is completely unacceptable.”
“Of course, we have not had a Budget, even a one-year Budget, since, I believe, 2021. The process is completely suboptimal. In fairness to the officials involved, there are clearly extenuating circumstances, which were created by a combination of the political chaos that we had here for several years and decisions made by the British Government to not regularise spending authorisations and not pass a Budget Bill at Westminster.”
“We are supposed to have a Budget process that involves the Minister of Finance bringing a Budget statement, which is a strategic spending document, having agreed it with her or his Executive colleagues, to the Assembly before the end of the financial year. At the same time, we are supposed to have spring Supplementary Estimates so that we can vote to regularise the spending for the end of the current financial year. That is part of what we are doing now, but, as has been said correctly, we do not have any spring Supplementary Estimates, so we are not able to properly judge and read across what we are voting on.”
“I am afraid that I must agree in part with Jim Allister, which is something that I do not always do, but it is important to acknowledge that we are being placed in a deeply unacceptable position. There is, of course, the irony that some of the people now talking most loudly about us not having scrutiny were the loudest cheerleaders for us not having an Assembly to scrutinise anything for more than two years, but let us stop, pause and reflect on the purpose of what we are doing. <BR /> <BR />Authorising money to be spent is the most important thing, in many ways, that the legislature can do.”
“I assume that he will not support that, but his party president, Mary Lou McDonald, said that she had been in contact with the British Government before that paper was drafted and was satisfied that the Good Friday Agreement was undermined. Did the Economy Minister see that commitment — that the UK Government were seeking to remove obligations around the all-island economy — before it was published, and, in his office, what action is he going to take to ensure that they do not go ahead with that objectionable action?”
“First, with all sincerity, I congratulate the Minister on his appointment as Economy Minister. I also commend the fact that, in this statement and in his early actions, he has clearly prioritised the development of the all-island economy, North/South cooperation and dual market access. That is hugely welcome, and he will have our support as he pursues those. However, I will also draw his attention to the contents of the UK Government's Command Paper, 'Safeguarding the Union', which included a specific commitment to the abolition of British Government legal duties around promoting the all-island economy.”
“— and beginning the long-term work of saving our greatest natural resource from death.”
“I agree with those who say that we need to bring Lough Neagh into public ownership. I am disappointed that that is not in today's motion, because that is also something that is real, meaningful and can be delivered. While I agree with the sentiment of today's motion, my party, as a constructive Opposition, will hold those with governmental power to account for delivering that —”
“We need, however, to support farmers and give them the regulatory structure through which they can make the decisions that they want to make to protect the lough. <BR /> <BR />We also need investment in our waste water infrastructure. Those are not elusive, impossible things that we cannot understand. They need to be in a Programme for Government, costed and delivered by the Executive.”
“We will be dealing with the problem long after he leaves office, and probably long after most of us have left the Assembly, but we have to be honest with the public. We cannot simply table motions that express aspirations to do things and not be honest with people about the trade-offs involved. Let us be honest about what those will be. There will be real decisions to be taken about what we put into the lough. It is basically a big bowl into which the whole of Northern Ireland drains. As was said by the Member who spoke previously, Maurice Bradley, there is only one river that flows out of it. My saying that has nothing to do with demonising agriculture. In fact, farmers are the custodians of the lough, because they farm around it.”
“Those levels are causing the lough to be too warm, warmer than it was ever supposed to be, and they led to what was last year a shocking, almost other-worldly appearance. It looked like something from a sci-fi movie, and it smelt indescribable, to be honest. Lots of us went down to the lough shore. My colleagues Patsy McGlone and Councillor Denise Johnston, whose family earns its living as Lough Neagh fishermen, did huge work. <BR /> <BR />The lough shore was an extraordinary sight last year. We therefore need more than words and consensus on how awful it is. We need real action. I am sure that the new Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs will take the matter seriously. It is going to take much longer than his time in office to address.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am pleased that the motion is before the Assembly, just as I am pleased that other important motions have been debated here today and yesterday. I am pleased that there is at least a degree of rhetorical consensus, but there has to be more than consensus: there has to be action. There has to be real, meaningful action that addresses what is at least a half century of the degradation of Lough Neagh, our greatest natural asset. It is clear and irrefutable that, for a range of reasons but primarily two — agricultural run-off and run-off from waste water — there are now, and there has been for decades, unacceptable levels of, in particular, phosphorus in Lough Neagh.”
“As Steve Aiken mentioned earlier, last year was the first full year in which, on an aggregate basis, the average temperature on earth had risen 1·5 degrees above the baseline that countries had set themselves. That is a horrifying milestone. <BR /> <BR />What is happening in Lough Neagh is, in many ways, a chilling — that is probably the wrong word, ironically — and frightening manifestation of what is happening to ecologies and environments all over the planet. It is intimately, irrefutably and inextricably connected to our warming planet, and we should not be in denial about that. It has multiple causes, but those causes are not, as some have indicated today, impossible to ascertain, mysterious or elusive. They are real, and we know what they are.”
“First, may I, on the record in the Chamber, join others in congratulating Andrew Muir on his appointment as AERA Minister? There is a historical significance in that Andrew is an LGBT man but also in that he is the first Alliance Party Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. There are therefore two firsts, one of which is a little more important than the other, but I congratulate him. <BR /> <BR />Today is a gorgeous day. The grounds of Stormont are spectacular, as we all know. It is beautiful after some fairly unremarkable weather recently. When one stands and look down the hilI, one can see that it is a cold, spectacular winter's day. Sometimes, the beauty of this island can mask what is happening more broadly and deeply in our ecology and environment, which is that our planet is slowly warming.”
“I am pleased that the Member gave way. Throughout today's debate, and, indeed, for the past 18 months while we have been preparing for opposition, we have repeated a word before opposition, which is "constructive". I am not sure whether he is aware of that word. I am happy to buy a dictionary and point it out to him, but constructive means that, occasionally, you try to build things. Yes, we are the Opposition, but we are also keen to be constructive. I am happy to offer him a definition of that concept at some point.”
“After two years, Mr Nesbitt. I thank the Member for giving way. I appreciate his comments about our amendment. I just want to say gently that it is designed to be constructive and complementary. Some of those urgent public-service resuscitation plans are exactly related and are related in the public mind to long-term, sustainable financing. You will note that our amendment does not call for that plan to be delivered tomorrow, next week or next month, because that would be unreasonable; it is about linking the two, which is important. <BR /> <BR />I do not think that Harold Wilson, in 1974, was talking about all of us. He had in mind a particular group of people who were blockading some of the roads outside this Building, but that is one for the historians.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way, and I congratulate him on his appointment as Deputy Speaker. It sounds like he is arguing in favour of an all-island economy and greater harmonisation. Can I assume that he and his party will make those arguments in the Executive?”
“We will, however, be robust, serious and fair, and we will, on behalf of the people who have elected us, ask fair questions and ask, as our amendment calls for, for a plan and for honesty — a plan to deal with the crisis in our health service, a plan to deal with the crisis in special educational needs and a plan to allow working parents to come close to the support that working parents in other jurisdictions get to deal with the crippling cost of childcare. Those are promises that have been made to the public in Northern Ireland in recent years, and we intend to ensure that those promises are kept. We will do our best to work with the Executive parties to ensure that they are.”
“<BR /> <BR />What I, as the leader of the Opposition, will pledge is that our approach to that will always be constructive. I am sure that, at times, we will be accused of stunts, as we were the other day; we will be accused of hurling from the ditch or of being Monday morning quarterbacks, but that is the job of being an Opposition. Those are the things that are levelled at an Opposition, just as it is the job of those in Government to take difficult decisions, to be honest and to provide leadership to the people who elected them. <BR /> <BR />Let me commend our amendment and reiterate my party's support for the motion, which, I hope, will become the motion as amended. Those who have just entered office have a really big job to do. What I promise them is that we will not be unreasonable and unfair and we will not carp.”
“She is a really talented public representative. I served with her on the Economy Committee, and I wish her well. I am sure the she will acquit herself and work very hard in that role. The time is right to ask her to take the lead, with the First Minister and the deputy First Minister, in order to bring forward a plan, in conjunction with the financial settlement that has been provided by London, and communicate to the public in this region what the plan is to start to resuscitate public services. How are we going to start to get waiting times down? How are we going to start to deal with the crisis in special educational needs, and, yes, how are we going to take advantage of the economic opportunities that lie in front of us?”
“<BR /> <BR />Pivotal, the Northern Ireland policy think tank that has come together in the past number of years, published a paper recently that talks about the need not just for a period of stability but for difficult decisions from the Executive parties. It also talked about a proper move towards budget setting and honesty with the public around the time that it will take to repair our public services and the steps that will be needed. In our role as an Opposition, we think that it is vital for us to say this to the Executive parties and particularly to the Minister of Finance. She is not in her place, but I congratulate her warmly on her appointment.”
“Many of us have been on the picket lines in recent weeks, talking to them not just for politicking's sake but because they are our constituents. They are teachers, nurses and classroom assistants who, in many cases, cannot afford to put petrol in their car to get to their place of work and serve all of us. <BR /> <BR />It is welcome that we are in the Chamber, doing our work and debating. It is welcome that there is a degree of unanimity around the need for the maximum financial settlement from the UK Government, but it is also important that the Executive parties, particularly under the leadership of both First and deputy First Ministers and the new Finance Minister, promptly and quickly come together to agree, as our amendment says, a costed plan to start to resuscitate public services.”
“Today, we saw me being nominated as Chair of the Finance Committee and my colleague Daniel McCrossan being nominated as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee. We intend to bring to those roles seriousness, scrutiny and a sense of constructive opposition. Given that both roles face into public finances, they are very relevant to the motion and the amendment that we are debating. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland's public services are in an absolute mess. It is almost too painful to list the problems with our health service, but they are shocking. Hospital waiting lists are twice as long as those in the Republic. They are not just the longest in the UK but are among the longest in western Europe. Cancer waiting times are far behind their targets. We know what public-sector workers are having to endure.”
“That is not just the opinion of political parties here; it is obviously the opinion of the Fiscal Council, the Fiscal Commission and various independent academics, who have acknowledged that this place needed to be funded at need and that it was not. I commend the letter and the motion in that respect. <BR /> <BR />We have said consistently that we intend to be a constructive Opposition. That role has two parts. First, it is about being constructive. We joined in agreeing with the letter, although we were not signatories to it, because we are not in the Executive. We agreed and signed today's motion. The second part is opposition. Opposition does not mean, as some have said, tearing lumps out of those in the Executive, but it means offering challenge and scrutiny.”
“Like Scrappy-Doo, let me at 'em. Some of us are slightly rusty on the process after a couple of years. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted that we are back in the Assembly Chamber, debating vital issues. Let me say first that we were pleased to co-sign the letter with the Executive parties, and I concur with Ms Ennis that the settlement from the UK Treasury needs to reflect the level of need in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute genuinely to the fact that all parties, including our party, which was not going to be in the Executive, gave a unified message at Hillsborough Castle before Christmas and since that there has been a long-term and unacceptable underfunding of Northern Ireland.”
“I need to move the amendment first. Do I need to just say "moved"? <BR /> <BR />I beg to move the following amendment:”
“I am delighted that we are back in the Chamber of the Northern Ireland Assembly, debating the vital issues that face the people —.”
“In line with Standing Order 56(4), in my role as leader of the Opposition, I nominate Daniel McCrossan as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee.”
“Yes, I am willing to take up said office.”
“Mr Speaker, may I have a 15-minute suspension?”
“This is slightly embarrassing, because I was not expecting to be in this position. I select the Committee for Finance, and I nominate myself, Matthew O'Toole MLA, to be Chair of said Committee. I hope that that is within Standing Orders.”
“It is true that very few roles in the world are more public than that of a monarch, but I pay tribute to him for using his office not just to bring awareness but to encourage discussion and openness about this very difficult situation. <BR /> <BR />Our thoughts go to the King and the rest of the royal family as they deal with an intensely private moment. I thank them for talking about it with candour and honesty.”
“It has also been said that, because of the problems in health services — this is true in England but even more so in Northern Ireland — an increasing number of people receive their cancer diagnosis on an incidental basis. That is deeply troubling and worrying. It is a good thing that we are back in the Chamber and able to do something about that, and it is a good thing that a Health Minister has now been appointed who can start to deal with the issues in our health service, which will, hopefully, improve cancer outcomes. <BR /> <BR />Once again, let me express that my thoughts are with the family of the King.”
“I commend the Member for Lagan Valley for bringing this Matter of the Day to us. Obviously, she spoke with immense emotion of the cancer experience that she and her husband are going through. She, like the King, is an example of people being open about their experiences with cancer, which, as has already been said, will very soon affect 50% of us. Our condolences also go to the family of the former Taoiseach John Bruton, whose sad passing we learned about today. We may have an opportunity to debate his legacy on another occasion. <BR /> <BR />The King has done something very brave. He has used the office and the role that he holds not simply to make this a private matter but to do something that takes courage at a very difficult time for him and his family, which is to talk about his cancer experience.”
“There is no reason why anyone's preference for a united Ireland in the future should prevent them from taking up the post of Justice Minister. I want to make that point. <BR /> <BR />I also gently say to some of my Alliance colleagues, who had a very good election and who are entitled under a normal d'Hondt process to have two Ministries — of course, in the previous mandate, they had the same number of MLAs as us, and they had the justice Ministry because it was taken out of the d'Hondt process — please, finally, can this be the last time that a nationalist is excluded from holding the post of Justice Minister, because it is utterly indefensible in 2024.”
“First, I congratulate Naomi Long on being reappointed as Justice Minister. I do not think that there is anybody in Northern Ireland politics who would doubt the ability of Naomi; indeed, some of us have found to our cost electorally that Mrs Naomi Long is an extremely effective politician. However, I put on record today my party's profound regret that, once again, the post of Justice Minister has been excluded from the d'Hondt process. I said earlier that there was a profoundly historic moment when Michelle O'Neill was elected to be the first nationalist First Minister of this place, and it is something that we should all mark, but there is absolutely no reason why there should not be a nationalist Justice Minister elected. There are qualified Sinn Féin MLAs on the Benches behind me who could do that job.”
“I thank the First Minister honestly for her answer. I asked that neither party choose to collapse the institutions. People out there want to know that that will not happen again. <BR /> <BR />This place has changed. We are a plural society, but we have struggled to combine inclusive governance with effective governance. This is the last chance that we have to get it right for the people whom we serve. The SDLP's job as a constructive Opposition is not, as some have said, to tear lumps out of anyone; it is to bring long-awaited accountability to lift up our democracy, to lift up our people and to deliver hope, change and ambition in equal measure. Our collective job is to finally prove that this place can work, so, once we have finished with the ceremony today, let us get down to that work.”
“First Minister and deputy First Minister, I have congratulated you both, but your parties have both collapsed the institutions in the past seven years. I do not think that, if they are collapsed again, they will ever restart, but only two people have the power to stop that happening: both of you. My first act in leading the SDLP Opposition in this reformed Assembly is to ask both of you to add to the Pledge of Office that you have just taken. Will you both now, in the Chamber, pledge to all the people of the North that, for the duration of this mandate, you will not use your power under the Northern Ireland Act to collapse devolution by resigning your office? I am happy to give way to the First Minister or deputy First Minister. I will follow up in writing, Mr Speaker. I will give way to the First Minister.”
“It is also true to say that this place — Northern Ireland; the North of Ireland — has had many symbolic moments: firsts, lasts, handshakes, ceremonies and milestones. What our people need now is delivery. Symbolism will not pay teachers or nurses; selfies will not cut waiting lists. We need an Executive to be focused on resuscitating collapsed public services and helping our demoralised workers. We need an Executive to address ecological catastrophe in our greatest natural resource, to help exhausted parents with the crippling cost of childcare and to take economic advantage of our unique trading position, but, to do any of that, we need to be here. <BR /> <BR />Today's restoration comes after two years of chaos. In 2020, the restoration came after three years.”
“First Minister, you have waited with patience and good grace to take up a post to which you were freely elected two years ago but which you have been blocked from taking up ever since. It is, as you said, a profoundly symbolic moment that we should all acknowledge.”
“As we walked down the stairs into the Great Hall, we passed the figure of James Craig, Northern Ireland's first Prime Minister — the man who built this Building and this state in his image. Whatever one's view of him, Craig was a far-sighted strategist, but even he was unlikely to have foreseen today's events. The state that he constructed was not meant to have people like Michelle O'Neill in charge, but here she is — a republican woman taking the First Minister's office. On behalf of the SDLP, I offer warm congratulations to you, First Minister. I offer congratulations to you, deputy First Minister. We sincerely wish you both well.”
“I will not say anything more. All the best in the role.”
“That was a very indulgent intervention that you allowed, Mr Speaker.”