David Ford
South Antrim · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“All I can say is that I remember officials coming back into the Department and saying, "You wouldn't have been very pleased with what Trevor or Stewart said at the Committee yesterday, Minister".”
“<BR /> <BR />When I listened to the start of the debate, I welcomed the comments that Mr McGuigan made, but, as Alex Attwood said so forcibly, even when he intervened and asked what had changed, there was an inability on the part of the Sinn Féin representative to explain anything other than to say that there is an election in six weeks'…”
“<BR /> <BR />No doubt, what we saw from in/out Ministers not so long ago and the failure of the outgoing First Minister to accept her role when she was Minister in DETI to deal with the issue has further added to that.”
“There is an inability in all that we face at the moment to recognise the public disgust at the behaviour of certain people in this place and, most particularly, in the Executive.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In his question to the Minister on that statement, Mr Paul Girvan suggested that some judges spin out cases inappropriately in their own financial interests.”
“Less than the full truth emerged and facts were eventually slowly dragged out from the bunker, sorry, from Stormont Castle. It is a classic example of why people have lost trust in the way that this place operates; it is a classic example of why the ministerial code needs to be enforced at least as rigorously as we enforce procedures agai…”
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“If Mr Frew is suggesting that today's statement is glossing over the problems at Maghaberry, I am not quite sure why I am standing here taking time to explain what has happened, acknowledge the issues in the report and point out the changes that have happened since then. That is anything but glossing over: it is recognising the extremely worrying contents of the report, as it related to last May, and explaining the action that is being taken. It is not about glossy action plans but about real work on the ground, on the landings and in other areas of the prison, to ensure that we move forward and have a better report in January.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need to ensure that we do not understate the seriousness of the poor inspection report from May this year but nor do we need to suggest that that somehow invalidates the reform programme generally, because the reform programme generally is making progress and seeing positive responses in different areas, including, in some respects, in Maghaberry and very much in the other two prisons as well.”
“I am not sure that it is reasonable to say, as Ms McGahan says, that there was a failure to implement the Owers recommendations in Maghaberry. The Owers recommendations are wide-ranging and far-reaching. What we saw in the inspection report was a failure in Maghaberry at that time — significant failings that led to a critical report. <BR /> <BR />That is in no sense undermining the concept of the Owers report and its wider, far-reaching recommendations, which, as I said, has seen a significant number of its recommendations signed off and others are work in progress.”
“The key issue of dealing with things like sickness absence matters much more than some of the individual 93 recommendations did three years ago. The important thing is that we do not lose sight of those smaller points being what drives the overall reforms. The team now in place in Maghaberry will be taking account of both levels of recommendation.”
“Mr Douglas highlights the difference between the wider strategic view following up on the report by the prison review team led by Dame Anne Owers and the immediate snapshot of the inspection of an individual institution. It is also the case that we have had reports in the past that have had a significantly large number of, in effect, fairly small recommendations, whereas the premise under which the PRT operated was of a strategic view with 40 strategic recommendations covering a range of areas. It was felt appropriate to concentrate on those, whilst not ignoring the individual recommendations. The Prison Service staff will be looking at the individual recommendations. The recommendations on this occasion are more of a high-level strategic objective than reporting on relatively small items and simply listing them.”
“It is on the Web, but I will see that a copy is placed in the Assembly Library as well. The key issue is looking at a range of issues and showing that robust action is being taken, whether it is how we deal with management of separation or the wider issue of developing a strategy with the South Eastern Trust looking at healthcare provision and self-harm. Those are key issues that affect the welfare of prisoners and, ultimately, the good of society. <BR /> <BR />There are actions under way and actions in place that, I believe, we will see the results of when the inspectors return in January. We will see a positive response from that.”
“I am glad that I am not going to annoy Mr Douglas by suggesting that he was not there. By what I heard from the Prison Service side, I believe that the visit by the three members was very positive. It was unfortunate that only three members of the Committee were available that day. <BR /> <BR />That question has highlighted the positive change that has come about since Phil Wragg's appointment. He is clearly grasping the nettle of some of the difficult issues that need to be done, supported by a refreshed senior management team in the prison that is being seen as more active. <BR /> <BR />I am not sure that I can provide reassurance today, but I know that there is significant attention being directed at a range of issues. The Justice Committee has seen the action plan that has been prepared.”
“Mr Swann makes a reasonable point. Changes have recently been made to the terms and conditions of newly appointed officers, and my understanding, at this stage, is that, with the current scheme looking to appoint up to 100 prison officers, we have already received in excess of 1,000 applications, with time still to run. That suggests that the terms and conditions that are being offered, and the modest improvement to them recently, makes them acceptable to those who would consider a career in the Prison Service.”
“That will helpfully change the situation, but there are wider issues that affect the higher-level industrial relations as well as relationships as they happen hour by hour in the prison, and, indeed, in each part of the prison. That is part of the challenge that the management team is taking on, and we will look to see how it succeeds over the next couple of months.”
“I notice, for example, that, in some of his comments, the chair of the Prison Officers' Association referred more to issues such as capital funding to ensure that we have proper arrangements than to anything else. There is no doubt that many of the prison officers who continue to work in the Prison Service and who experienced very difficult times in the 1970s and 1980s will view the proposed changes with a certain amount of misapprehension. What is important is to see the good work that is now being done, under a leadership team that is making itself more visible on the landings and engaging better with staff on a day-to-day basis.”
“I thank Mr Maginness for his support for the reform programme. He is absolutely correct that the reform programme is vital to having things move forward, and it is extremely disappointing to see the quality of the report. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, there has been an industrial relations problem. It is not entirely unique to Maghaberry, as we can see if we look at prisons across different parts of these islands, and there is no doubt that confronting the changes that were required to be made has created difficulties for management and not contributed terribly well to industrial relations. I do think that we have seen some good progress made.”
“Today, 48 staff are absent. That, to me, is a demonstration of leadership at the present time. I think that you can take it that a failure of leadership is what was happening at the previous stage, and that was a key challenge that is being addressed by Phil Wragg and his senior team, from which we are already seeing very positive benefits for staff and prisoners.”
“I thank Mr Lynch for his question about that. I am not sure that it is for me to define what was referred to in the report as failure of leadership, but there are a number of instances cited in it: issues like the failure to have robust management of sickness absence, which is a clear issue. That is one of the points that was made most clearly as impacting on the entire way that the prison runs because of the lack of staff, therefore creating an unpredictability of things like lockdowns and general regime. I notice, for example, that, in May, just after the report was done, the average number of staff sick every day in Maghaberry was 101.”
“What we saw was a snapshot that showed how things were earlier this year, and a report that commented on failings of local leadership in Maghaberry and the breakdown of relationships at a point when they were being challenged from prison headquarters. It is not an issue of three years of decline since the previous report. We have highlighted the fact that progress was being made previously in Maghaberry. It was a snapshot showing a very difficult situation earlier this year, which is being addressed robustly by the director general and her senior team with full support from the Department.”
“Members may recall that, in the report by Dame Anne Owers and her colleagues, there was a recommendation, which I referred to in my statement, for three mini prisons in which there would be one high-security area that would include separated prisoners. That would give a way of ensuring that the maintenance of the necessity of a higher standard there did not impact on the regime for others, but, as was made perfectly clear, that is dependent on capital funding, which we have not yet seen. <BR /> <BR />The final comment that the Committee Chair made about the failure of the leadership of the director general was an unfair comment that I reject entirely.”
“In recent months, we have seen a significant decrease in the numbers of those who either have positive drug tests or refuse to take drug tests. Whilst it is clearly an issue that needs to be addressed, the clear implication is that the current leadership team in Maghaberry is addressing that. <BR /> <BR />The Member also refers to the effect of having two groups of segregated prisoners on the regime for the great majority of prisoners in Maghaberry, and I share that concern. It is not my decision that segregation exists, and it is not my decision that individuals are admitted to segregation. Those were decisions that were taken respectively by the Northern Ireland Office in the past and on behalf of the Secretary of State at the present time.”
“We need to acknowledge that the issue of safety is significantly different here from other regions and is an issue outside. In terms of the things like number of assaults, I noticed in the statistics that I was given most recently that those are down in recent months, and the number of occasions on which force has to be used is down in recent months, so there are clearly positive changes happening there. <BR /> <BR />Mr Ross also referred to the concern about drugs, and there is no doubt that there is a problem with illicit drugs in this society, and, as he did not highlight, there is also a problem of prescribed drugs being misused in prisons. Again, that is something on which there has been action taken.”
“Whilst we should be cautious about applying too much of the statistics of small numbers, to suggest that that implies that Maghaberry is the most dangerous prison in Europe is perhaps a bit of hyperbole and hype in some of the reporting, rather than the content of the report itself. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, there are issues that relate to the safety of prison officers which cause us all concern. Again, unlike the situation in other parts of these islands, that threat to the safety of prison officers also comes outside the prisons, regardless of anything that may happen inside the prisons. That is a point that I was only too well reminded of on Friday when I attended the annual memorial service for the Prison Service, which remembered 31 colleagues who have lost their lives in the recent past.”
“I will endeavour to refer to those points. In the Chair's enthusiasm to ensure that he gets in as many questions as possible, he does tend to speak slightly fast, so I apologise if I do not cover all the points that he made. <BR /> <BR />He started off by highlighting the suggestion that Maghaberry is the — I think that he said this — "most dangerous prison in Europe". I am indebted to Newton Emerson for reminding me in his column in 'The Irish News' on Saturday of an article that I saw in the national media two or three months ago, pointing out a significant increase in deaths in custody in England and Wales, which were already at a higher level than in Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />NIPS has taken swift and decisive action to ensure that Maghaberry has the right leadership and resources in place to deliver an effective regime. That work is well under way, but it will take time to deliver. I welcome the announcement by the inspectors that they will return to the prison in January, and I am confident that when they do, they will see real progress and a prison well on the road to recovery.”
“It would also be wrong to conclude that the problems identified at Maghaberry earlier this year are because of, rather than in contrast to, the progress being made against the recommendations made by Dame Anne Owers and her team. That progress has been about embedding long-term change in the prison system. I am confident that the Prison Service, under the leadership of its director general, Sue McAllister, will continue to progress along the difficult path of reform. Indeed, I am convinced that had we not embarked on that journey, and had we not benefited from the leadership that Sue McAllister and her senior team have shown, we would have seen a greater number of reports like last week's.”
“Senior management at Maghaberry has now written to the Equality Commission seeking advice and guidance on how this can be achieved. <BR /> <BR />I know that, in some of the commentary around last week's report, I was accused of trying to spin or downplay the seriousness of its findings. I have no intention to do any such thing, and I hope that this statement will give Members a sense of the seriousness with which it is being treated by me, by NIPS senior management and by the new leadership team at Maghaberry. What I will do, however, in closing, is say that I believe it would be wrong to ignore or lose sight of the scale of what has been achieved and what continues to be delivered, not just at Maghaberry but across the entire prison system through the wider reform programme.”
“This will give the prison greater flexibility across the regime. Plans are also in place to build a high-security facility and a new visits area at the prison. This will enable the redevelopment of the site into three mini prisons, with dedicated units for short-sentenced and remand prisoners; long and life-sentenced prisoners; and category-A and separated prisoners. The plans are clearly dependent upon finance. However, it is critical that this is delivered to ensure an effective, modern and fit-for-purpose estate. <BR /> <BR />The inspectors also found that Catholic prisoners experienced poorer outcomes and acknowledged that the reasons for this were likely to be complex. They recommended that the prison needed to understand the underlying reasons for this.”
“In specific relation to Maghaberry, NIPS and the trust will produce and implement the action plan recommended by the inspectors within the month specified by them, and I intend to meet the Minister of Health to discuss its implementation when they do so. <BR /> <BR />The final overarching theme on which the report makes recommendation is the development of the prison estate. Following years of underinvestment, NIPS continues to progress plans for all three prisons, including the redevelopment of Magilligan and the construction of a new custodial facility for women. In particular, the changes and investment at Maghaberry will allow NIPS to build a focused regime that will be resourced in a more effective and efficient way. The first phase of this is the new 360-cell accommodation that is expected to be completed during 2018-19.”
“The partnership that was announced after the inspection between the Prison Service and Belfast Met and North West Regional College was a significant step for all three prisons. The outsourcing of learning and skills means that a wider curriculum will be offered, including areas such as essential skills in literacy, numeracy and ICT as well as vocational courses. <BR /> <BR />Turning to healthcare, the report recorded a range of concerns. The provision of healthcare in prisons is a complex issue. While this is the responsibility of the South Eastern Trust, the Northern Ireland Prison Service (NIPS) is committed to continuing to work with the trust and DHSSPS to develop the joint justice and healthcare strategy, which is key to delivering an effective service at Maghaberry and the other prisons.”
“With the full complement of staff available, the prison will be able to operate with a full regime and a core day. That is what the management team is working towards. Purposeful activity is key to ensuring prisons can be a place of positive, constructive change for people in custody. <BR /> <BR />The inspectors recommended that the prison should complete a robust needs analysis to ensure that the resettlement services provided meet the needs of the prison population. I can confirm that, under plans that were already being developed, within days of their arrival at Maghaberry, prisoners are now assessed on their risks, needs and strengths, and a personal development plan is devised for the duration of their sentence. <BR /> <BR />The inspectors recommended that the leadership and management of learning and skills should be strengthened.”
“Regarding outcomes for prisoners, I am encouraged that the report reaffirms the four overarching strategic themes identified by the Prison Service as those on which it will focus as it continues along the path of reform. These are leadership, about which I have spoken already; purposeful activity; partnership with healthcare; and a fit-for-purpose prison estate. In relation to purposeful activity, the inspectors found that the regime was curtailed and that prisoners were often locked for long periods of time. Actions being taken by the new senior team are focused on delivering a safe, decent and secure environment for everyone at the prison. Key to that is having a regime that meets prisoners' needs and matches the resources available to the prison.”
“This is helping to build resilience and morale among the staff. Work is also being taken forward to improve the overall condition of the prison environment through cleaning and painting programmes in accommodation and communal areas. A cafe and restroom has recently been opened for staff and visitors, which not only provides staff with time and space to rest during their breaks but enables prisoners to work and achieve qualifications in preparation for release and potential future employment.”
“<BR /> <BR />While this is still work in progress, it is a critical part of getting the performance of the prison back to where it needs to be. Other steps to strengthen and support the staff at Maghaberry have included permanent and temporary transfers of staff from other prisons. An external recruitment programme recently commenced to target key replacements for custody officers, night custody officers and prison custody officers. That is an important step to ensure that the workforce can be reinforced and refreshed. <BR /> <BR />The report also identified low morale among staff, and the refreshed senior team is now more visible and accessible.”
“These factors, combined with the need to retrain existing staff for the new roles that we now expect them to play, have all combined to put staff under additional stress. While it is important to acknowledge that over three quarters of staff at Maghaberry did not take time off for sickness, the inspectors found an unsustainable level of staff absence that was having a detrimental effect across all areas of the prison. This is being addressed as a priority by the governor and his team. Since the arrival of the new governor, the level of daily sickness absence has dropped by over a third and continues to fall month by month. That is testament to his leadership and indicative of how things that could have been addressed by the previous team were not given appropriate attention.”
“The challenges facing Maghaberry are serious and the level of improvement that we want to see will take time to deliver, but I have seen first-hand how the new governor’s decisive and dynamic leadership has already brought significant improvements in the areas of greatest concern to the inspectors. <BR /> <BR />One of the key challenges highlighted in the report was staffing at the prison. As Members know, our Prison Service has undergone significant changes in its workforce in recent years, with a large-scale early retirement scheme in addition to the changes that happen in any large group of employees over time. While reform programmes of this scale are usually supported by additional funding, the budget available to run our prisons has been significantly reduced.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Prison Service has accepted all nine recommendations made by the inspectors and has put in place an action plan to achieve them. I am encouraged that the chief inspector of Criminal Justice Inspection has indicated that he believes that the action plan, if delivered, has the potential to address his concerns. <BR /> <BR />Of all the recommendations, I believe that the most fundamental is that urgent and decisive action be taken to strengthen Maghaberry’s leadership. The appointment of Phil Wragg as the new governor has been key to this. Phil is an experienced governor, with over 25 years’ service in some of the most challenging prisons in England, including Belmarsh.”
“In this case, immediately upon receiving the initial feedback from the unannounced inspection of Maghaberry, Prison Service management, with support from me and the DOJ permanent secretary, took steps to remove the governor and deputy governor from their posts and to replace them with a new senior team. <BR /> <BR />While I do not believe that it is appropriate to go further into what are ongoing personnel management matters, I will say that neither of the two personnel removed from their positions in Maghaberry was redeployed in the Prison Service. These actions are a reflection of the seriousness with which the Prison Service and I took the findings of the inspection and of the determination of the director general and her team to keep our reform programme on track.”
“That has involved giving senior staff in the service opportunities to demonstrate their ability to deliver change in line with the service’s new focus. In many cases, senior staff have risen to that challenge and have shown real ability. Unfortunately, in the case of the team appointed at Maghaberry in June 2014 that was not the case. Increasingly concerned about the weakness of that leadership, in the spring of this year, Prison Service management took steps to challenge their performance. <BR /> <BR />Last week’s report references the difficult relationship that evolved between the local leadership at Maghaberry and Prison Service headquarters at that time. Frequently, when independent inspection reports identify failings, public bodies encounter criticism for inaction.”
“CJINI’s previous inspection of Maghaberry in March 2012 found signs of improvement in several aspects of the running of the prison, including the introduction of free-flow movement; an improvement in the quality of teaching, training and learning; and the provision of offending behaviour programmes. Encouraged by that report, but not complacent, the local leadership in Maghaberry continued to pursue improvements. The leadership team should be commended for the progress made during that period, in line with progress that was also beginning to be made at Magilligan and Hydebank Wood. <BR /> <BR />In 2014, however, due to planned departures from the Prison Service, a new leadership team was appointed in Maghaberry. A key aspect of the reform programme has been to develop new leadership from within the Prison Service.”
“Based on the advice of Criminal Justice Inspection and the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority (RQIA), 33 of the strategic recommendations for change that were set out in the fundamental review of the prison system led by Dame Anne Owers have been implemented or signed off. These were reforms that many believed were not achievable. <BR /> <BR />Last week's report confirms what we knew when we set out on the path of reform: that it would not be easy or straightforward; that not everyone, nor every part of the service, would move forward at the same pace; and that, as well as successes, there would be real setbacks and disappointments along the way. What Criminal Justice Inspection and Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons found when they visited Maghaberry in May is the biggest of those setbacks that we have encountered.”
“<BR /> <BR />Early in my tenure as Justice Minister, I made clear my determination to reform our prison system to ensure that it plays its part in making our society safer. For too long, its focus had been solely on keeping people locked up. It was time to broaden that focus, to ensure that society is kept safe by detaining those whom the courts send to prison and by doing all that we can to ensure that, on release, prisoners play a positive role in their families and communities. <BR /> <BR />I am proud that, in the years since, we have made great strides towards that objective.”
“The standard four areas that are considered and assessed in the healthy prison test are safety, respect, purposeful activity and resettlement. Against the first three of these, inspectors scored Maghaberry 1 out of a possible 4, described as delivering "poor outcomes for prisoners". Against the fourth, the inspectors scored Maghaberry 3, described as delivering "reasonably good outcomes for prisoners". <BR /> <BR />I want to set out for Members the context in which the inspection took place, the key conclusions and recommendations that were made by the inspectors and the steps that have been taken and are being taken to ensure that, when the inspectors return in the new year, they will see significant improvement.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement to update the House on Maghaberry prison. <BR /> <BR />Last Thursday, Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland (CJINI) published its report following an unannounced inspection at Maghaberry prison in May. I would like to thank the Chief Inspector, Brendan McGuigan, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons, Nick Hardwick, and their teams for their work and the comprehensive report that they have published. <BR /> <BR />The inspection that was carried out in May provided a deeply worrying analysis of how the prison was performing at that time. The inspectors found significant concerns around staffing, resourcing, outcomes for prisoners and the provision of healthcare.”
“We cannot guarantee that these things will continue in perpetuity, but there is a clear recommendation that there will be no change in that direction in the immediate future.”
“The report makes it clear, and I accept the recommendation at present, that we should seek to maintain the current system for criminal defence. However, the reality is that adjacent jurisdictions have looked, at least in part, at a public defender system, and there are issues around management of costs that may well make that a necessary way in which this jurisdiction may have to look at some point in the future. If we can manage things under the current arrangements in a way that is affordable and sustainable, it is clearly the wish of many clients that they should have their full choice of a lawyer — and that is clearly the choice of those in legal practice, including Mr Allister himself in the past.”
“Had Mr Allister listened slightly more carefully, he would have heard that, whilst the report refers to us having a "world class" system of legal aid, I did not say that I believed it necessary to maintain the current system. I made the point that a decent legal aid system is a fundamental human right, but not everything within the current system will be. I also made the point that I welcome the fact that the report specifically says that we should not be going to the irreducible minimum. It is a fundamental human right that people should have a decent system. We need to look, as I highlighted and the report highlights, at a range of alternative dispute resolution. <BR /> <BR />I am not quite sure when I was "flirting" with a public defender system.”
“<BR /> <BR />The report refers to standard fees being applicable on the civil side as well, and I believe that to be a much better way for individuals to know what they will be paid; for the Legal Services Agency to know what it will be paying out; and to ensure, as far as possible and allowing for the fact that there will always be exceptionality, that we depend upon standard fees for simplification and assurance as to what expenditure will be.”
“I thank Mr McCarthy for the question. I believe that significant benefits have come through the introduction of much greater dependence on standard fees in criminal cases in the past. Members may recall my complaining in the past about the assessment of too many criminal cases as very-high-cost cases. That was one of the key reforms in Crown Courts that reduced expenditure and brought them down to a more manageable level on that side.”
“It took considerable staff time and ministerial time to seek to resolve those cases when they might have been resolved just as easily in a slightly different and more informal way. There is an issue about getting the balance right with judicial reviews to ensure that decisions can be covered, but also to ensure that all appropriate means are exhausted first.”
“The simple answer to Lord Morrow is that this is an issue on which I will be looking for responses in the consultation, but I can certainly sympathise with his general point. <BR /> <BR />As the recipient of a very significant number of judicial review applications, either personally or slightly at second hand, which, in many cases, revolve around the Prison Service, it seems to me that, at times, there are real questions as to whether matters should not be better assessed elsewhere and that leave might not be granted for a judicial review until all available means have been covered. I can think of one or two particular cases, which I will not go into the details of.”
“I am slightly baffled by Mr Frew's question on two grounds. The first is that courthouse closures have absolutely nothing to do with the access to justice report, and the other is that the points that he highlighted about different ways of doing justice, particularly as we look at the smaller number of cases coming into courts, would reinforce the point that we do not need as many courthouses as we have currently. <BR /> <BR />I hope to report to the Assembly on the proposals for the court estate within a few weeks. When Members look at the number of cases going through the courts compared to the numbers that went through five or 10 years ago, they will recognise that there is a very serious issue, which is that we cannot fund justice for our citizens if we are keeping roofs on buildings that are not needed.”
“I cannot give Ms McGahan the sort of blow-by-blow account of all the research that was done by Jim Daniell and Colin Stutt, but I know that they took every opportunity to look at other jurisdictions and see how matters were applied to legal aid there. The point is that it was not simply a matter of looking at legal aid; it was a matter of looking at access to justice and the best ways of ensuring access to justice for citizens, not just the best ways of managing legal aid.”
“The figures that applied on the basis of the budget and the application of cuts by the Executive are inadequate to meet current legal aid costs, but legal aid cannot be protected for ever when other aspects of the justice system are seeing their budgets going down.”
“Those are the kind of things that happen. It is the law of unintended consequences. When we did something good to benefit victims and, indeed, defendants, by getting cases heard more quickly, there was a rush to put those legal aid payments through. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that we had the budget that we had when justice was devolved, and we have sought to work within that budget given all the other pressures across the justice system. I know that my officials, whom I will be having discussions with later today, are looking at the budgeting process for next year and at the balance between different aspects of the justice system.”