David Ford
South Antrim · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“All I can say is that I remember officials coming back into the Department and saying, "You wouldn't have been very pleased with what Trevor or Stewart said at the Committee yesterday, Minister".”
“<BR /> <BR />When I listened to the start of the debate, I welcomed the comments that Mr McGuigan made, but, as Alex Attwood said so forcibly, even when he intervened and asked what had changed, there was an inability on the part of the Sinn Féin representative to explain anything other than to say that there is an election in six weeks'…”
“<BR /> <BR />No doubt, what we saw from in/out Ministers not so long ago and the failure of the outgoing First Minister to accept her role when she was Minister in DETI to deal with the issue has further added to that.”
“There is an inability in all that we face at the moment to recognise the public disgust at the behaviour of certain people in this place and, most particularly, in the Executive.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In his question to the Minister on that statement, Mr Paul Girvan suggested that some judges spin out cases inappropriately in their own financial interests.”
“Less than the full truth emerged and facts were eventually slowly dragged out from the bunker, sorry, from Stormont Castle. It is a classic example of why people have lost trust in the way that this place operates; it is a classic example of why the ministerial code needs to be enforced at least as rigorously as we enforce procedures agai…”
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“I am quite sure that the deputy First Minister was not referring to Stephen Farry or me in his last comment. Given what he has just said about the releasing of information from the Executive, the complexity of the work to be done around the Programme for Government framework and the subsequent development of the Programme for Government, particularly where it relates to cross-departmental issues, will the deputy First Minister inform us of how Members of the House and its Committees will be involved in that process?”
“I suppose that it is particularly disappointing after all the positivity that surrounded the match. The fact is that it is not always the case that, at football matches, supporters of the two teams can go to a match together, can come away from it together and can celebrate together in a constructive and positive relationship, and that perhaps makes it even more poignant that there was a tragic end to that night for one particular individual. We can assure the family, the friends and the playing colleagues of Darren Rodgers that he will be in the thoughts and the prayers of all of us at this time.”
“That is appropriate, but it is also appropriate that, in this place, we remember his friends and family at this time.”
“On behalf of the Alliance Party, I also extend our condolences to the family of Darren Rodgers. It was a matter of great shock and sadness for those who thought that, this weekend, we could celebrate the result of a rugby match in South Africa and at least a creditable performance on the football field in Nice, and to then hear that there are things much more important than sporting achievement, which will have deeply affected not just a family but a circle of friends. <BR /> <BR />As was said, Darren was not just a football fan but a football participant who enriched the life of Braid United. By the remarks already on social media, which refer to him as a true gentleman who contributed a great deal, he was clearly well respected. I understand that the green and white army will pay tribute to him at the Ukraine match.”
“From the enormous list in front of me, I select the Audit Committee and nominate Trevor Lunn as its Deputy Chair.”
“I nominate Chris Lyttle as Deputy Chair of the Committee for Education.”
“What we have achieved was based on the proposals that Alliance put forward before we accepted the job in 2010. That work must continue. From the point of my colleagues, we will judge the new Minister not on her age or her gender; we will judge her on how far that reform programme continues.”
“The fact that the new Minister has, at least, a lack of public preconditions gives me some concern as to how that will be carried through. Indeed, as in the words of Harold Macmillan some years ago, there is no doubt that, like Health and unlike most other Departments, Justice has "events" to face. There will be significant — very significant — challenges ahead. <BR /> <BR />I know from my background that I am handing over a Department that has made a positive contribution over the last six years, which has seen Justice fully embedded into the devolved sphere and participating, with other Departments, in a joined-up — to some extent — government, but there is much that lies ahead that needs to be done, and there are very significant challenges.”
“Though I cannot personally support that nomination — it is not because I have a fixation with the d'Hondt system, which I do not — I certainly wish Claire well in the task that clearly lies ahead of her. She has, as the deputy First Minister said, onerous responsibilities to carry out. I am certainly well aware of the major issues that are faced by the Department of Justice, the massive issues that confront that Department over budget, Programme for Government, the specific issues for justice and the ongoing issue of reforms that have been put in place over the last few years and that need to be continued.”
“It is clear from the announcement that has already been made in the Great Hall that Claire Sugden is to be the Minister of Justice, and, like Colum Eastwood, I personally wish her well. The deputy First Minister referred to the fact that the post was first offered to Alliance. It is no secret that we put forward five proposals that we believe would have made this place function better and delivered better for the people of Northern Ireland and that those proposals were rejected by the First Minister and deputy First Minister. <BR /> <BR />As is their right, they have sought to look elsewhere, and they have now asked Claire Sugden to carry out the job. That is their right, and clearly there are the numbers in the House to carry that.”
“If they do not, they will be challenged by us because there is a need to ensure that delivery is achieved in key issues, in particular the need to deal with the threat of violence on our streets that still exists, and of which we have been so sadly reminded in recent days, and the need to move to a united community so that those divisions will be overcome and that violence will be ended. That is what, unfortunately, we have so far failed to do in 18 years. That is the challenge that needs to be addressed, and it is up to those who have just assumed office to lead that challenge and up to the rest of us to ensure that that carries through.”
“Despite the number of votes that were given, there is absolutely no doubt that they were given by only 55% of our people, and there is a very substantial body that does not believe that the Assembly has delivered in the 18 years that we have had. <BR /> <BR />I say to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister that if they are going to take action on those key issues, they will get the support of the Alliance Party for the work that they are doing in the right direction.”
“I add my congratulations to Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness. It is clear that their parties have been given a mandate to lead the Government. The challenge now is to turn it into delivery and not just some of the promises which we saw. <BR /> <BR />I congratulate Mike Nesbitt on the sound bite of the day, but some of us believe that government is a bit more substantial than the sound bite of the day. I congratulate Colum Eastwood on the quote of the day, because the sad reality is that the Executive and the Assembly, over the last five years, did not deliver all that was promised when we stood here five years ago. There is much that remains to be done. That is a challenge for those who have been given office today and for others who will join them, and it is a challenge for the Assembly to hold the Executive to account.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to put on record our compliments to the outgoing Speaker, Mitchel McLaughlin, and wish you well in the role that you have taken on this afternoon. I certainly agree with Colum Eastwood: there has proven to be little value in having, formally, a Principal Deputy Speaker. I think that it would be a sign of maturity in the Assembly if we were to move away from the presumption that the two largest parties occupy the posts of Speaker and Principal Deputy Speaker all of the time. That said, I welcome you to your role. While we have established that we no longer have to have a Speaker from Foyle, we have at least returned to having a Speaker from East Belfast. I recall that that set us off in good terms in 1998.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was slightly surprised when I read the notes indicating procedure for this morning, which referred to Members giving a designation of "Nationalist, Unionist or Other", with initial capitals and quotation marks, but paragraph 6 of strand one of the Good Friday Agreement specifically puts "nationalist, unionist or other" in lower case with no quotation marks. For the avoidance of doubt, my colleagues and I have given our designation as united community. You may regard it as something different.”
“<BR /> <BR />The important thing is that we see a united response carried through into full support for the Police Service in its difficult task of protecting the community in general. At the same time, we should recognise the good work being done by prison staff in the difficult task of changing the culture of prisons for the vast majority of prisoners, while still dealing with the small numbers who pose significant threats, including those posed by their colleagues outside.”
“I do not believe that anybody in the leadership of the Prison Service is merely paying lip-service to the concerns that have been expressed. I have already indicated that an updated security assessment has been sought from the director general. Measures have been provided to ensure protection for prison officers and their homes. However, the sad reality is that, in circumstances where a small number of people are seeking to carry out attacks on police and prison officers, whether on or off duty, unless people are entirely vigilant all the time and the community provides the information that is required, we cannot be certain that we will not see similar incidents in the future.”
“Support for Prison Service staff and their families in general is being addressed by the director general. I am also well aware of the direct support provided by representatives of the Prison Service Central Benevolent Fund to the Ismay family over the 11 days since the incident occurred, and particularly today. That support needs to be followed through in a response from the community that, first, provides to the Police Service practical information that can help to catch the perpetrators, and, secondly, tells those who wear the uniform of a prison officer or a police officer that they do so on behalf of everyone and are respected for the work that they do by all in society, except the tiny number who carry out deeds like this.”
“Members will appreciate that I cannot promise to give "all the resources necessary", in Mr Craig's phraseology, to the Chief Constable. We are bound by various restrictions. In response to Mr Allen, I said that I will look at the issue of resources and appropriate support for the Police Service in discussions with the Secretary of State in the coming weeks. <BR /> <BR />Mr Craig also made a very significant point, and it is one that we should remember: this was not just an attack on democracy, on the peace process in Northern Ireland and on an individual prison officer and his colleagues; it will also have raised major concerns with those who suffered in the past. We should, perhaps, also remember them tonight as we remember the Ismay family.”
“I indicate to Mr Allen, as to others, that the issue of appropriate resources for the justice system — in particular, for the work of the Police Service — is kept continually under review, and I have no doubt that it will feature in discussions that I will have with the Secretary of State in the immediate future.”
“Of course I agree with the sentiments that Mr Douglas expresses. He referred to the murder of Mr Stack some years ago in the Republic. Notably, in recent years, when I have attended the Northern Ireland Prison Service memorial service on the Friday before Remembrance Sunday, there has been a representation of uniformed officers of the Irish Prison Service, wearing poppies with shamrocks to show their solidarity on a cross-border basis. That is the message that needs to go out: unity within Northern Ireland and unity across the island against all those who would seek to divide us. That must be followed by a determination to overcome the divisions that exist and that certain people continue to play on.”
“I agree entirely with that. I have said before and repeat tonight that it appears that some people are more wedded to some form of struggle than to any possible outcome. They must be condemned from every quarter. The united response in the House is being replicated amongst the vast, overwhelming majority of our people not just in Northern Ireland but across the border and across the water, judging from the responses that I saw this morning. That is the response that we need, and we need that carried through into the practical action of assistance to the police and acknowledgement of the difficult task that the police officers and prison officers of this society carry out.”
“I am aware of reports in the media about supposed celebrations in Roe House in Maghaberry. I am not aware of the veracity of those allegations, but I entirely agree with Mr Kennedy that, if there is any truth in them, it is utterly despicable behaviour.”
“I expect to see the family during the day tomorrow. I will convey the wishes that are being expressed around the House, which I have no doubt will continue unanimously, when I meet the family.”
“I certainly agree that we need united condemnation from the Assembly and a united community response to those who seek to divide us and drag us back.”
“I indicated to the House at Question Time this week that the director general of the Prison Service had asked for a security assessment of the threat against prison officers. I have no doubt that that will be completed as speedily as can be and that the Prison Service, in conjunction with the Police Service, will do all that it can to protect Prison Service staff.”
“Whoever was behind this has nothing to offer anyone in Northern Ireland. Today, the Assembly and the justice family stand side by side, united in our sympathy for Adrian's family and in solidarity against those who want to drag this community back.”
“Those behind this callous attack once again showed an utter disregard for human life, not only for the life of someone who served the community but for the lives of his family and others living in the area. I know that I speak for all Members when I condemn the actions of those responsible for this heinous attack and say that I fully support the police in their investigation. <BR /> <BR />Those involved in carrying out this misguided attack and those who planned it should see the futility of their actions. They go against the democratic principles that the vast majority of people in this society support. I know that the police are looking for every piece of evidence to bring the perpetrators to justice, and I ask anyone with information to contact the police. <BR /> <BR />Adrian Ismay served the entire community.”
“In addition to his dedicated work as a prison officer, Adrian was actively involved in the community as a trainer in search and rescue and first aid. A remarkable example of his dedication to the Prison Service was shown when he attended a passing-out ceremony for new recruits last Friday, just one week after he had been attacked. <BR /> <BR />That courage could not be more different from the cowardice of those responsible for planting a bomb under his van in the darkness of night. Whilst the police and other agencies are working to establish the exact cause of Adrian's death, his bravery is in stark contrast to those who carried out this appalling attack.”
“Mr Speaker, I start by thanking you for agreeing to allow me to make the statement at short notice. It is with the deepest sorrow that I speak to Members today following the death of serving prison officer, Adrian Ismay. I know that I speak for everyone in the Assembly when I say that our thoughts and prayers are with his wife, his daughters and the wider family circle, as well as his colleagues and friends. <BR /> <BR />Adrian's death has come as a great shock to all of us. He was a husband, father and grandfather, and it is in his family home that the pain of the loss will be felt most. He was also hugely respected by his friends and colleagues in the Northern Ireland Prison Service, where he gave over 28 years' service.”
“I also pay tribute to Professor Roy McClelland, who, with his background in psychiatry, has played a significant role for the Department of Justice in promoting safer custody. I am delighted that the work of those two men and their colleagues has been carried through by the Ad Hoc Committee and the two Departments, despite the naysayers — not Mr Wells, but a certain predecessor of his — into very solid and very positive legislation that we can all take pride in.”
“When, as a very young and enthusiastic trainee social worker, I found my supervisor on my first student placement to be a principal social worker called David Bamford, I little believed that, 40-something years later, one of the things that I would do on my last day as Minister in the Chamber would be to sit through the Final Stage of a Bill that puts into practice the work that he suggested. David not only supervised me but came to Jordanstown as a senior lecturer the following year, and he was known by my class as somebody who was very rooted in the practical realities, alongside serious intellectual rigour. We see that in the report that he produced and in the legislation.”
“I appreciate the Minister giving way. The procedures in this place indicate that no two Ministers can speak on a single piece of legislation, so I pay tribute to Simon Hamilton for the way in which he carried the legislation on behalf of the two Departments. Of course, he was ably supported because the Chair of the Ad Hoc Committee had been well trained in the field of justice and was therefore capable of dealing with complex legislation. It was, as others said, an extremely positive example of good work being done, and I am extremely grateful for the work that was done between the two Departments, our officials and the Committee's officials. <BR /> <BR />I will digress, if I may, slightly.”
“The challenge for those of us who return to the Assembly will be in building the public services that our people want, ensuring that we get that across all our public services and ensuring that, in this place, we really start to build a united community.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank those who sit beside you, Mr Speaker — the Clerk/Chief Executive and the Clerks — and all staff, from doorkeepers, cleaners and catering staff through to the entire secretariat, for the exceptionally good way in which we are served. I also thank you, Mr Speaker, for the role that you have performed. There were those who thought that it was not possible for somebody with your political background to be the Speaker of the House. You have proved that it is possible to make change and that it can be done by anybody from any background. The way in which you sought to reach out has been very welcome to all of us.”
“In paying tribute to those who are leaving, I particularly mention my three colleagues: Judith Cochrane, whom you know well, Mr Speaker, from her work on the Assembly Commission, where she helped to make this place run more smoothly than would otherwise have been the case; Anna Lo, who has been a phenomenal Chair of the Environment Committee and introduced initiatives in a way that some Committee Chairs can grasp and other Chairs often do not grasp; and the particular old boy who is sitting directly behind me, Kieran McCarthy. I assure you that the Alliance Party will do its best to address the age and gender issue in providing Kieran's replacement in this place. I shall leave it there, but we need to address that issue collectively.”
“That number will potentially be even more diminished after the election, even should the good people of South Down decide to return Jim Wells to this place yet again, or if the good people of South Antrim return me. We are clearly going through a time of transition. Mr Speaker, you highlighted the fact that, after May, the Assembly will be significantly changed compared with five years ago, and that has to be an opportunity to move things on.”
“In the same way, we can highlight some of our economic successes, and if Stephen Farry were here representing me — unfortunately for others, I am representing myself this morning — he would doubtless highlight the role that DEL has played in the creation of tens of thousands of new jobs and the 1,300 or so university places in STEM subjects and in work done around apprenticeships, all of which have been key to getting us started on the road of economic recovery, but there is such a lot more that still needs to be done. <BR /> <BR />I add my words of thanks to a number in this place who I regard as friends, if not exactly colleagues, in different parties, particularly the seven of the old guard who have been here since 1998.”
“However, while we have made modest improvements on things like the removal of interface structures, there is still an awful lot more to be done that requires a much greater joining up of work between the future Department for Communities, the Department for Infrastructure and the Department of Justice than we have yet seen. <BR /> <BR />Let us acknowledge that, while we have made improvements, there is a lot more still to be done.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the spirit in which others have highlighted the work of their Ministers, I certainly believe that we can say that six years of devolution of justice has made a difference. We have tackled issues like prison reform, youth justice and, I dare say, even legal aid, which were not tackled previously. As I acknowledged yesterday in the presence of a number of members of the Justice Committee, I acknowledge that that has worked, because we worked well in partnership between this Assembly, particularly the Justice Committee, and the Department.”
“There is no doubt that it provided a degree of stability, but, all but 18 years from the Good Friday Agreement, is stability enough? We need to be moving on from the concept of saying that the institutions are surviving and, therefore, that is something good, to the point where we can genuinely say that the institutions are delivering. There is no doubt that we could look through a series of issues where we have not got the strategies in place that we need and where we have not spent the money that we should have spent on dealing with poverty and social inclusion. There are real challenges across every Department to ensure that we get a better measure of delivery in the future.”
“Whilst, unlike some in the Chamber, I have no doubt in my belief that devolution is better than direct rule, and I believe that we have actually shown a significant measure of delivery in comparison with what went before, we need to also acknowledge that that is a pretty low bar against which to set our standards. There are real challenges to ensuring that we deal with the frustration that is felt in the wider community and to actually addressing the key issues before us in a way in which we have not yet managed. We have not fully got a spirit of partnership and working together at Executive level, even if we do have some good examples from Committees in this place of how that should be done. <BR /> <BR />Others have referred to the so-called Fresh Start deal of last autumn.”
“Mr Speaker, particularly in the context in which you introduced this item, I suppose that it is natural that we should look back on some achievements, whether statistics on questions asked or numbers of Bills passed. However, there is certain danger that we then end up in a mood of self-congratulation, which does not entirely take into account the feelings that people in the community have about this Assembly. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that we have changed from the days when you and I first arrived here in 1998, but whether we have changed as much as people expected remains very much an open question.”
“I trust that those Members, particularly the members of the Justice Committee, who have shown such positive engagement with the incredibly difficult issues that the Department of Justice and the Committee have to deal with, will show the same positive support for my successor as they have shown me. With that, I commend the Bill to the House.”
“I have also not called for his resignation, but I do think that it is an indication of some constructive and some very positive good work. <BR /> <BR />I should just say on personal basis, if you will indulge me a little, that, given the number of good wishes that referred to whether I might be going somewhere, I should like to make it clear that the Taoiseach has not nominated me to the Seanad, whoever the Taoiseach may be. The last offer that I got of a seat in the House of Lords came from the then leader of the Ulster Unionist Party in 2005. I declined it and have not had one since. As far as I am concerned, subject to the wishes of the good people of South Antrim, I have every intent of going nowhere at all but coming back here after the election to take up a different role in the Assembly.”
“The problem is that I am not sure that Mr Allister would say anything nice about me even if I did resign. <BR /> <BR />I do, however, feel that it is appropriate that I should betray one personal confidence, Mr Speaker, and I trust that I will not embarrass the Member too much. You may recall that Alastair Ross was indicated to be the incoming Chair of the Justice Committee some weeks before he actually took up the post. The day that he took up the post, he sent me a text message that said something along the lines of, "That's me in the Chair now; I shan't call for your resignation for at least a week". I have managed a little longer than a week. Some of his colleagues may think that it is a fault on his part that he did not call for my resignation.”
“It reminded me of the point when I was elected Minister and stepped down from Antrim Council. For the first time ever, six members of the council said nice things about me on the day that I left. Clearly, I should resign more frequently and then more people would say nice things about me.”
“I will not dwell on that, except to say that I fundamentally disagree with a number of the points that were made. I do think that the House will have to return to confront some of these difficult moral issues and work out how we meet those needs. In my remaining week or two, I look forward to working with the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety on the promised working group looking at abortion law. That aside, I think that we have seen positive engagement and compromise producing significantly good legislation, not just in this Bill but in a number of other Bills. <BR /> <BR />Quite a number of good wishes were passed in my direction as well as those of the mutual love-in amongst the Committee members. I thank those Members for saying that.”
“I think that we have seen a significant improvement in the work of the Bill, as with every preceding Bill, by good, constructive, positive engagement and by the willingness of members of the Committee to engage with officials in the Department and vice versa. On this occasion, the amendments that came in did so when it was possible to ensure that they were put right at Consideration Stage, and any minor tweaks were fixed at Further Consideration Stage. That is absolutely the right way to work and has made things extremely positive for all of us. <BR /> <BR />I have to mention the one issue that Mr Dickson mentioned: my disappointment that we failed to address the tragic issue of fatal foetal abnormality. Various references have been made about this not being the right Bill and so on and so forth.”
“In particular, his reference to his experience on other Committees and how well the Justice Committee has worked merits consideration by people in the Chamber who are not on the Justice Committee. <BR /> <BR />I repeat my thanks to the Chair and the Deputy Chair. I know that I am not supposed to say words like "Alastair" and "Raymond" and that I am supposed to call them by their titles, but they have been friends in a constructive working relationship. Christine, who comes in with them as Clerk of the Committee, has got on with my officials and me equally well and has made matters a whole lot better than might have been the case.”