David Ford
South Antrim · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“All I can say is that I remember officials coming back into the Department and saying, "You wouldn't have been very pleased with what Trevor or Stewart said at the Committee yesterday, Minister".”
“<BR /> <BR />When I listened to the start of the debate, I welcomed the comments that Mr McGuigan made, but, as Alex Attwood said so forcibly, even when he intervened and asked what had changed, there was an inability on the part of the Sinn Féin representative to explain anything other than to say that there is an election in six weeks'…”
“<BR /> <BR />No doubt, what we saw from in/out Ministers not so long ago and the failure of the outgoing First Minister to accept her role when she was Minister in DETI to deal with the issue has further added to that.”
“There is an inability in all that we face at the moment to recognise the public disgust at the behaviour of certain people in this place and, most particularly, in the Executive.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In his question to the Minister on that statement, Mr Paul Girvan suggested that some judges spin out cases inappropriately in their own financial interests.”
“Less than the full truth emerged and facts were eventually slowly dragged out from the bunker, sorry, from Stormont Castle. It is a classic example of why people have lost trust in the way that this place operates; it is a classic example of why the ministerial code needs to be enforced at least as rigorously as we enforce procedures agai…”
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“I am not sure whether it is appropriate that I should say that I have full confidence in any body, particularly those that are not directly accountable to me, but I have significant confidence in the good work that is being done by a range of voluntary sector partners, not least NIACRO. I do not wish to start to have to name all of them, but NIACRO seems to have featured a number of times in questions today. We have had a good working relationship. A lot of good, positive work has been done by our NGO partners.”
“I do not think that it is possible to say what we would see as a direct consequence. I regret the fact that the Department of Justice has had to cut back some grants to the voluntary sector, particularly because, faced with a difficult budget settlement from 2010 to 2014, the Department of Justice was able to prioritise front-line services, including those provided by our voluntary sector partners. Significant reductions were made in the back office, which continue to be made this year, but the reality is that the ongoing difficult budget settlement becoming even more difficult this year means that we can no longer protect our voluntary sector partners as we had sought to do for the first four years of devolution.”
“As part of a study in the latter part of last year, the Home Office specifically looked at the Irish legislation, which seems to me to have been a major bonus, and its potential benefits. The fact that the relevant shops were, by and large, closed down almost overnight in the Republic whereas, in Northern Ireland, we still have the problem of having to take individual action is an example that we can learn from, which is not always the case in social matters from our neighbours across the border. The key issue will be to persuade the Home Office of its responsibilities across the UK as a whole, to learn the lessons and to ensure that we and other parts of the UK get the benefit.”
“I am happy to endorse the good work that Belfast and, I think, Larne and Omagh councils did in addressing those so-called head shops that were selling so-called legal highs. New psychoactive substances (NPSs) is a more accurate description. I have also been in contact with the Home Office about the issue and hope to have a meeting with the relevant Home Office Minister when individual Ministers' responsibilities are sorted out. That is because, as Members will be aware, the specific issue of the Misuse of Drugs Act is a reserved matter. It is clear that a number of councils in Northern Ireland have done good work. That was clearly a step forward, but I believe that we need the law to be more comprehensively joined up in the future.”
“Yes. I am grateful to Mr Ross for pointing that out. Members will be aware of my intention to provide a full-time speech and language therapist for the Youth Justice Agency, principally for those in Woodlands but potentially also for some in the community. The reality is that, with the current budget arrangements, it has not been possible to provide that post. I have asked officials to look at what may be possible as developments go through and as the Youth Justice Agency looks at its overall budgeting in the future, but, unfortunately, it has not been possible to get that position filled at this stage. It is clearly an issue, given that so many young people in custody have problems in speech and language. Of course, we see issues in mental health as well.”
“There are benefits to health and social care within a year or two of getting involved in such a project, benefits to education in two or three years and benefits to justice in 10 years. That is why it is more difficult for us to justify it at a time of limited expenditure. Nonetheless, the Department is participating in some of those projects and will continue to do so, as well as continuing the work that we are doing on diversionary activity for young teenagers.”
“I am happy to confirm the general tenor of my Committee Chair's question. In a sense, there are two issues that we need to talk about, one of which is early intervention in the context of interventions in early childhood to help children who might otherwise have difficulties in their family. There are then early interventions for those who, perhaps in their early teenage years, are in danger of getting sucked in to criminal activity. The former is clearly not particularly the DOJ's responsibility. Indeed, we can look at the lifestyles of some of the families with whom a number of voluntary groups are working in projects like those that I have seen in the west Belfast and Shankill community interventions.”
“Yes. The answer is simple: I gave a commitment that there would be a paper to the Executive from the Department of Justice on the issue, recommending that, in this narrow area, abortions be allowed in circumstances of fatal foetal abnormality. That is the commitment that I gave, and that is what I have instructed officials to do. I trust that we will have a paper prepared in the very near future that will go to the Executive. I also trust that those who said that they do not think that such a measure could pass in the Assembly will allow the Executive to put it to the Assembly so that the views of the representatives of the people of Northern Ireland can be tested in the Chamber.”
“Those tragic circumstances can be addressed only by a change in the criminal law, which will provide clarity for practitioners and for women faced with the devastating diagnosis of fatal foetal abnormality.”
“Currently, in the circumstances of fatal foetal abnormality, a woman can have an abortion in Northern Ireland only if there is a risk to her life or a risk of serious permanent or long-term injury to her mental or physical health. Where a woman does not meet that test but feels that she cannot continue with the pregnancy, she is prevented by our law from having an abortion in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Following consideration of responses to the recent consultation, I am proposing a change in the law to provide a statutory exemption to allow for a lawful abortion to be an option for a woman who has received a diagnosis in pregnancy of a fatal foetal abnormality.”
“With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I will take questions 10 and 11 together. <BR /> <BR />The recent remarks by the First Minister on the subject of guidelines for abortion contradict previous statements by former DUP Health Minister Edwin Poots, when he said, on more than one occasion, that guidelines were unable to deal with cases of foetal abnormality and that such cases would require an amendment to the criminal law, which was a matter for the Department of Justice. It is therefore hard to understand the reasons for the First Minister’s comments. <BR /> <BR />As I have said previously, guidelines can only define the law at the present time; they cannot change it. It is simply not correct to say that we can resolve the tragedies of women carrying foetuses with fatal abnormalities by changing the guidelines.”
“A number of different strands go together. I fully acknowledge, and I repeat to Mr Beggs, that there are problems with the cuts that have had to be made, from a variety of different backgrounds, on organisations such as NIACRO. The direct work that is being done with employers and the work that will be taken forward by the two further education colleges, including specific formal skills, will all assist. However, it is a key issue that requires a lot of effort, and it is difficult to do all that we would wish to, given the cuts being imposed on the Department. That is the unfortunate reality.”
“I certainly agree with Mr Ross that it is more difficult when some of our voluntary sector partners are losing money, particularly funding from the European social fund, which NIACRO was unsuccessful in securing this year. The reality is that we are seeking to manage things as best we can by looking directly to a range of private-sector employers, as well as through the good work that was being done by organisations such as NIACRO and Extern. However, it is all part of living with the difficult Budget settlement that we have. We are seeking to make the best job of it that we can, despite the cuts.”
“I am extremely grateful to employers who have seen the benefits in that, including, of course, some that are nationally-based and have previously worked in Great Britain to provide opportunities for prisoners. <BR /> <BR />I trust that we will see further work going through, particularly as we look at learning lessons from the Employers' Forum for Reducing Re-offending.”
“Placements are now actively being provided for prisoners in all three establishments, and I believe that it shows that a significant amount of good progress is being made.”
“Work has been done on engaging with the private sector over the last year or two, which has seen significant progress. Last year, 53 new employers were engaged and committed to working with the Prison Service to provide placement opportunities across Northern Ireland for those in custody and being released from custody. In November last year, the Prison Service held a Recruit with Conviction event for employers to raise awareness and understanding of community sentences. The Prison Service has also been working in conjunction with the UK-wide organisation, the Employers' Forum for Reducing Re-offending, to help establish a similar strategic employer network local to Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am confident that through the implementation of the employability strategy and our work to improve skills, we will significantly increase the opportunities available to prisoners on their release and support desistance from crime.”
“<BR /> <BR />Alongside the employability strategy, work is progressing to improve the levels of educational attainment amongst prisoners and provide them with specific skills aimed at supporting employment. When responsibility for learning and skills in the prison establishments transfers to Belfast Metropolitan College and the North West Regional College, an accredited course in employability skills will be offered to all prisoners. The course is designed to support an individual to successfully gain employment and progress in their chosen field, prepare them for further study where necessary and support the development of techniques required for successful independent living.”
“The Prison Service employability strategy is a public commitment to support individuals in custody to develop qualifications, skills and experience linked to labour market needs in order to increase their potential for gaining employment on release. The strategy aims to expand the opportunities for individuals to gain practical work experience whilst in custody that mirrors the expectations of employers and better prepares them for the workplace. Significant progress has been made, including engaging with employers to dispel some of the myths around employing people who have offended, increasing the number of placement opportunities available for prisoners as part of the pre-release process and establishing a corporate and standardised approach to working with employers.”
“There have been discussions for a considerable period. We are obliged to adopt a full-cost recovery model by DFP. It is clear that the current payments are not covering the costs, which is why there is a proposal for a fee increase. I am also keen to see that that proceeds in as efficient a way as possible. Indeed, my officials had a meeting just last week with representatives of elements of the gun trade and others and discussed how that might apply. I believe that some progress was made around fees. We also looked at other issues, like a banded system that would provide further benefits for those who shoot.”
“The certification of firearms is a matter for the Chief Constable. I am advised that he has a complement of 35 members of staff in the firearms licensing branch at police headquarters to process firearms certificates. There are also 29 locally based firearms enquiry officers who are involved in the licensing process. I have a small team that processes firearms appeals and prohibitions in devolved cases, as does the NIO for non-devolved cases.”
“The precise detail of funding is not entirely clear at this stage. It depends on how much is done at what pace. Mr McGlone raises an entirely reasonable question. In very rough figures, we are now offered £30 million a year for five years by the Treasury, on top of what was probably in the region of £10 million going from the existing justice system, for something that could cost up to £50 million a year. That detail will have to be worked through. My officials have started a considerable amount of work on that, but, of course, until we get wider agreement on other issues, it is not guaranteed that we will receive that money from the Treasury, although it is clear that we need that money and we need it rapidly.”
“Yes, I assure Mr McCartney that the legacy inquests will remain entirely unchanged in terms of autonomy. Assigning judges from a higher tier to take responsibility for some of the legacy inquests will, we trust, ensure that matters proceed more speedily, more effectively and more efficiently, particularly for the benefit of those who were bereaved and have been seeking a full and proper inquest, as they see it, for some considerable time. As I said, I will discuss that issue with the Lord Chief Justice shortly when looking at his responsibilities. I hope that we will see significant progress around that area, but there is the matter of legislation going in one single Bill at Westminster that may be derailed by other matters.”
“Yes, I agree with my colleague. There is no doubt that good work has been done, to a certain extent at the party leaders' meetings and certainly in terms of the work being done by my officials. I also acknowledge the work being done by officials in the Northern Ireland Office, who will be responsible for the Bill at Westminster in conjunction with my officials. It is clear that there are many other aspects of the Stormont House Agreement, most particularly around welfare reform, that have not yet been dealt with and have the potential to derail the entire process, which would do real damage to the victims who have invested their hopes in the Stormont House Agreement delivering for them.”
“The early recruitment of the HIU's director will be taken forward by OFMDFM in consultation with my Department. Plans are under way to have the post filled by December this year. <BR /> <BR />To improve the way in which the legacy inquest function is conducted, a number of changes are being progressed, including the allocation of cases to a higher judicial tier to case manage and hear legacy inquests. To allow that to happen, it has been agreed that the existing County Court judicial complement will be increased. I will also meet the Lord Chief Justice to discuss when he will assume the role of president of the Coroners' Court, in accordance with the Legal Aid and Coroners Act (Northern Ireland) 2014. <BR /> <BR />My Department has been set a challenging agenda by the agreement, but work is well under way to deliver the necessary changes.”
“I am committed to implementing the elements of the Stormont House Agreement that fall to my Department as promptly as possible. Under the agreement, my Department is responsible for the establishment of the new historical investigations unit (HIU) and improving the legacy inquest function. The HIU will be an independent body to take forward investigations of outstanding Troubles-related deaths. The legislation required to set up the HIU will be progressed through a Westminster Bill. Drafting is at an advanced stage, and I expect the Bill to be introduced in Parliament in the autumn. My intention is to establish the HIU by summer 2016 and for it to be operational by the autumn of next year. In developing the legislation, my officials have been working closely with key stakeholders, including victims and victims' groups.”
“That is a very reasonable question, but, since Sir Keir Starmer was preparing the report for Barra McGrory, the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), and not for the DOJ, I am not entirely clear on that point. My understanding is that it is likely to be published within the next week, but it is in the hands of Sir Keir and the DPP, not me or anybody to do with the DOJ.”
“I am unable to give an assessment of Sir Keir Starmer’s independent review, as the report of his findings has not yet been published.”
“As I made clear, Mr Dunne's question is about operational matters for the Chief Constable. However, faced with the budget cuts that have been imposed on DOJ, a large measure of which have had to be passed to the police, even though they have been protected compared with other areas of justice spending, it has been for the Chief Constable to determine how he prioritises. He clearly has to prioritise certain elements of his work over others that, we might all agree, are desirable but are not necessarily essential at a time of difficulty.”
“The community policing structure in North Down is an operational matter for the Chief Constable, who is accountable to the Policing Board. However, I have every confidence in the Chief Constable and his senior officers to put appropriate structures in place in all the new policing districts.”
“Yes; that is a point that I tried to make earlier. The important issue is that we have the best possible facilities for people who are using courthouses, not that they are necessarily close at hand. We are not in the days when the resident magistrate rode around on his pony to assorted courthouses in the backrooms of hotels, community halls and whatever. We have to ensure, for example, that victims get properly treated, that young people are segregated from adults and that all those issues are better done in some of our more modern courthouses, as indeed I inspected at Laganside just last week. The challenge is to ensure that courthouses are fit for purpose, not that they are at every street corner.”
“I do not think that the cuts that were imposed on my Department's budget were a particularly bright idea, but I have to live with them.”
“Of course, in the case of fatal foetal abnormality, the view that I took was that those who know most about this — the medical professions, the nurses and the midwives — know better than I or others do. <BR /> <BR />This consultation has not closed, and I have not seen the report of responses; therefore, I cannot answer on what the responses to this consultation are.”
“I am not sure how many times I have to say that this is a consultation and there are no predetermined answers, but, if Mr McKay likes, I will say that this is a consultation and there are no predetermined answers. Those who have read the consultation document will have seen references to things like travel times. There are clearly issues that have some effect, but the key thing for me is to ensure that people get the best possible facilities when they reach a courthouse. It is not necessarily about there being a courthouse close at hand but that there is a fit-for-purpose courthouse within a reasonable travelling distance.”
“The DOJ's record on consultations, for example, the one on prisons some time ago, which the Members for East Londonderry will recall — there is one staring straight at me at the moment — is an indication that, when the DOJ does consultations, it listens to their contents. I was slightly surprised, given that I wrote to the chief executive of Mid and East Antrim Borough Council on 26 March about contacts on possible community uses of Ballymena courthouse, which had been suggested at my meeting with the council, to discover that, in last week's local papers in Antrim and Ballymena, there was a report that the council was demanding to get names of people to speak to in the DOJ from me, despite the fact that they were told of it on 26 March. I am keen that those discussions should happen.”
“The consultation on the rationalisation of the court estate ran until today, 18 May. The responses to the consultation will be analysed and recommendations will be prepared. I have met a number of MLAs, local councillors and community representatives, including a delegation from Ballymena, to discuss the consultation. No final decisions on any of the proposals will be made until the autumn.”
“No, I have not had the opportunity to discuss that particular issue with Frances Fitzgerald since it arose, but I will meet her shortly and expect that it will feature at that meeting.”
“No, I have not yet had any discussions with those who bear these particular responsibilities in Westminster, or in Whitehall, to be more specific. I will wait and see what further proposals there may be, depending upon what discussions the UK Government have with the EU.”
“I am not sure that this issue needs to be resolved in that sense, on the basis that the original arrangements are working well in this jurisdiction. They provide for repatriation in a way that aids rehabilitation and reduces the likelihood of reoffending. On the specific issues, whilst a majority of EU member states have signed up to the new proposals, Ireland in particular has not and, therefore, it is not possible to use the compulsory arrangements for repatriation with the Republic of Ireland. At the moment, I have no reason to believe that the current use of the original 1983 convention is inadequate.”
“To date, my Department has not repatriated any individual, either into or out of this jurisdiction, under the new compulsory return arrangements that were introduced by the EU Council framework decision on the transfer of sentenced persons. Rather, we have continued to rely on the terms of the original 1983 convention, which provided for agreed repatriations. Since April 2010, we have repatriated 11 individuals and accepted two into this jurisdiction from EU member states.”
“However, we clearly need to ensure that we use every possible means, and I believe that naming and shaming will be a key part of that.”
“I have not had direct discussions, although I will shortly be having discussions with those who operate in the legal trade. Mr Byrne makes an entirely valid point about ensuring that people are able to support only those selling legitimate fuel. One of the key issues, of course, is the fact that the new marker is now in place. That makes it significantly easier to ensure that the fuel cannot be laundered without considerable expense. I think that that will certainly assist in the fight against organised criminals. Certainly, within a very short time, all diesel sold across the UK and Ireland will have the new marker in it. That is a key area. <BR /> <BR />The fact that we are having not only our own conference but a Europe-wide conference in Northern Ireland this year is an indication that we are leading the fight.”
“I am always encouraged when Members want to highlight the benefits of the NCA. Of course, on the specific issue of non-devolved crime, which includes evasion of excise duty, there is no additional benefit, although we are aware that gangs that launder fuel are also engaged in other varieties of crime, some of which is a devolved matter. Therefore, I have no doubt that, when the NCA becomes operational next week, it will add to our overall fight against organised criminals generally.”
“No. That is why I am in constant contact with the Treasury to seek to ensure that action is taken robustly. There are issues around the confidentiality of individuals' tax returns that are entirely different from protecting the public where illicit fuel is being sold in petrol stations. That may happen even where the nominal ownership of a petrol station may change hands, leaving individuals vulnerable even if there are prosecutions against those who perpetrated the crime in the first place. I believe that a lot more needs to be done and I will continue to pursue it with the Treasury.”
“Yes, of course it is a criminal offence, and prosecutions are the responsibility of HMRC. Members need to be careful when quoting the number of filling stations that may be committing this offence. That was not particularly helped by a press release issued some time ago by HMRC that referred to the number of filling stations involved in selling laundered fuel, as opposed to the number of occasions on which detections had been made. The number with multiple offences means that the number of filling stations that have actually been engaged in that process is significantly lower. My understanding is that, in the last two years, the number of individual retail sites that were found to be in possession of illicit fuel were 33 in 2013-14 and 45 in 2014-15; a lot less than half.”
“Fuel excise evasion and the related legislation is a reserved matter and is the responsibility of HM Revenue and Customs and the Treasury. Between February and May this year, HMRC consulted on a discussion document relating to penalties, which is the first stage in a wider review aimed at making it hard for a dishonest minority to cheat the system, including, of course, filling stations selling illicit fuel. In addition, they are continuing to look at legislative issues regarding naming and shaming filling stations where laundered diesel has been found: something that I have been pursuing with them. <BR /> <BR />My Department and HMRC are organising a seminar on fuel laundering to be held in June. It will involve all relevant agencies and will be a forum to discuss whether there are areas in which more can be done.”
“I am sorry that Mr McIlveen highlights that he thinks the Policing Board is critical of me over the handling of injury-on-duty issues, when it is, principally, a responsibility for the Policing Board. If we have the situation where certain solicitors and barristers are not terribly happy with essential reforms to legal aid, then I am sorry, but we might possibly think they have a vested interest in the matter. At the moment, I think I get on tolerably well with most people in probation, most people in youth justice, most people in the Police Service and most of the civil servants working in the core of the Department who support the work that has to be done, despite the difficult budget cuts. So, at the moment, I am reasonably content that we are still winning, thanks.”
“I hear lots of things said by the Law Society, including some of the predictions it made about the terrible things that would happen when we reformed criminal legal aid a couple of years ago, and the so-called strike that some of them engaged in for a while before they recognised the reality of what has to be done to live within a budget and to reform the system. So, I am afraid that I do not recognise any sense in the point made by the Law Society. I do not see any suggestion. If the Law Society believes that the proposals around courthouse reform are penny wise and pound foolish, I hope it will engage with the Department of Justice in finding a better way of dealing with matters, given the budget constraints we live under.”
“The concept of online courts is an interesting one that has not come across my desk in any formal way. It is in line with what we are seeking to do to reform the way in which the court system operates to make it more effective and more efficient; but I think that, for some time, people are likely to expect to be present if they are to have their proverbial "day in court". However, we should acknowledge that it was not that long ago that the prisoner escort service was spending an enormous amount of time and effort transporting prisoners from jails to courthouses for simple remand hearings of a minute or two. We have got away from that by video links. There may be other ways in which we can develop it, but I shall look to those who have greater experience of the IT niceties than I do to make those suggestions.”
“<BR /> <BR />This is the sort of work that I saw highlighted in the Ornella unit in Ash House recently and the additional work assisting women to get their lives back on track; the work that has turned the young offenders' centre into a college; the work that has got the good result that we highlighted earlier for Magilligan; and the ongoing work in the very difficult and complex prison of Maghaberry to ensure that life is much better there. By the time we have the final report of the three-year oversight group this autumn, I believe that we will see all significant recommendations signed off to the point where all that remains is capital funding. Sometimes, we forget that it is a reform programme that is, frankly, as big as the one that brought the PSNI into operation, but it has gone through in a much quieter way.”