Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“I thank the Member for giving way. Will he concede that that does not take into account lower wages, higher levels of deprivation, higher levels of poverty and more-complex health issues and trauma. It takes no account of that stuff.”
“I urge the Minister to listen to that call and that story and make sure that Catherine gets the treatment that she deserves, as well as the tens of thousands of people across the North who are waiting for treatment.”
“She lives just a stone's throw away from the Royal Hospital. That is completely unacceptable. I do not blame the people working in the Royal or anywhere else for that, but that is a symptom of the failure of the system. Her GP has put in an urgent referral but has been told that Catherine will have to wait years. That is totally unacceptable, Minister. I know that she is not the only person, but she is the person whom I most recently met, and I urge you to hear her story, listen to her concerns and make sure that she gets the treatment that she deserves. <BR /> <BR />After one recent seizure, the cooker in the house was left on. The family told me that it was a miracle that nobody was tragically injured or worse. As Catherine's daughter said to me on Friday:”
“The second person whom I want to speak about is a constituent of mine, Ms Catherine Mullen. I met her and her daughter on Friday. She is one of the tens of thousands of people who are waiting for treatment and to see a consultant. Despite the severity of her seizures and her neurological issues, she has been told that she will have to wait at least five years to see a consultant. That is completely unacceptable. Her GP wants to start her on medication. However, she has been told that she has to wait because she is under a consultant, despite never having seen a consultant. That is completely unacceptable, and I urge the Minister to act on that. <BR /> <BR />To add insult to injury, Catherine was recently forced to wait two hours for an ambulance to come when she fell after her seizure and was found to be black and blue.”
“I urge the Minister to pay heed to that and ensure that FND support is in place.”
“Patients are still dismissed, stigmatised and left without adequate support. There is delayed diagnosis and a lack of treatment, leading to worsening symptoms for many and placing emotional and financial strain on families in the healthcare system. FND is a common but under-recognised condition, and the lack of timely, appropriate care has severe consequences for patients and their families. Patient-led organisations like FND Matters are leading the charge for change, but systemic support is still urgently needed. As Jeanette states:”
“It does really important stuff. It provides training for healthcare professionals and advocates for better education to improve understanding and care for FND patients. I thank Jeanette and her group for their work. <BR /> <BR />Despite that effort and that sterling work, systemic issues persist. There are no formal care pathways for people with FND, no rehabilitation programmes or specialist healthcare professionals for FND patients.”
“Patients were left to research their condition themselves, with no structured care or support from the healthcare system. There is a stigma. FND patients were often blamed for their condition, which exacerbated emotional distress for patients and their families. There is also insufficient medical education. Many clinicians lack the knowledge or confidence to manage FND, leading to delays in diagnosis and treatment. <BR /> <BR />Jeanette and her family were determined to take action. She founded the charity FND Matters NI, which I am sure that Members are familiar with. It has provided 800 hours of free counselling funded by grants and members' contributions. It has set up support networks and established drop-in sessions, as well as a befriending service and social media platforms to connect patients and families.”
“I will speak in the main about two individuals. The first is a lady called Jeanette. Twelve years ago, she was diagnosed with functional neurological disorder, which is condition that disrupts the brain and body communication, leading to symptoms such as seizures, tremors, paralysis and chronic pain. Despite its prevalence, FND remains widely misunderstood, with minimal awareness, inadequate health services and significant stigma. At the time of Jeanette's diagnosis, there were no care pathways, specialists or rehabilitation services available. There are misdiagnoses and dismissal. Jeanette was ridiculed and told by healthcare professionals that her symptoms were imagined or that she was attention-seeking. I hope that she was the only one who was told that, but I am sure that she was not. <BR /> <BR />There is also a lack of resources.”
“Revenue raising has been doing the rounds again. Something that I have raised before but was not in the statement is some form of empty property levy or tax through the rating system. According to your Department's figures, Minister, a £1,000 fine on empty properties could bring in somewhere between £22 million and £50 million a year. Is that something that you are likely to look at and support developing further?”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. No Government handled the pandemic brilliantly, but does he agree that other countries handled it in a much better way, including countries in Southeast Asia that prioritised public health over opening businesses at any cost and letting the virus run rampant through communities? Does the Member agree with that point in a general sense?”
“That is totally unconscionable, but preventable. People deserve institutions that work for them, not against them. They deserve a Government that can respond quickly and effectively to emergencies, not one that is tied to the internal dysfunction of Westminster during a public health crisis.”
“That is why previous attempts have failed and why Mr Buckley and others are dead set against them. Here is the terrifying reality: we are no better prepared for the next pandemic than we were for the last. It would be foolish to say when there will be another, but there is no doubt that, at some time, one will come round the corner. <BR /> <BR />The COVID inquiry's recommendations have not been fully implemented, as has been stated. We still lack robust emergency planning structures. Our healthcare system remains fragile and underfunded, with a gap of thousands of health and social care workers. The cross-departmental coordination needed for a pandemic response is totally absent; it is non-existent. When — not if — a public health emergency strikes, we risk repeating the same catastrophic failures that cost thousands of lives.”
“They are absolutely right; they are not wrong. People see MLAs whose votes do not count equally, depending on which box they tick when they take their seat in this place. They see a political class that is more interested in looking after wealthy and vested interests than building houses or treating the sick. Reform is not optional; it is absolutely essential. Reform must serve working-class communities across the board and not just tinker with mechanisms that protect elite and well-connected interests. We need institutions that can act decisively in emergencies, and we need accountability mechanisms that work. <BR /> <BR />Citizens' assemblies could — I emphasise "could" — provide a democratic mandate for change. However, let us be honest: reforms in this Building and even talking about them threaten those who benefit from dysfunction.”
“We were lucky to have a small funeral for her, but we were denied a wake, which is so important to many families. Many families did not get a funeral at all, while the Executive lurched from one chaotic meeting to the next, leaking like a sieve. <BR /> <BR />This is not just about COVID; it is about a system that cannot deliver on housing, that watches our health service collapse and that fiddles while Lough Neagh and Belfast lough turn toxic. It is a system where "transformation" means another unfunded strategy document gathering dust and where an aspirational, non-binding Programme for Government exists. <BR /> <BR />Fifty-eight per cent of people who responded to the life and times survey said that they want reform, and 79% said that they think that the Assembly had achieved little or nothing.”
“<BR /> <BR />Working-class communities bore the brunt of that failure. They could not access adequate healthcare then, and tens and hundreds of thousands still cannot today. They faced impossible choices between following restrictions and putting food on the table, and they watched as those who made the rules broke them without consequence. <BR /> <BR />Our institutions are fundamentally built on a foundation that incentivises division. When the crisis hit, we saw the consequences: people died alone in hospitals, while Ministers played political games and let the virus flow and grow. Families were denied funerals for their loved ones. My grandmother died of COVID in 2022 because, in part, she could not get a care package and was forced to stay in hospital.”
“I support the motion and the amendment. As somebody who sat in the House and on the Health Committee during COVID, I think that there is a lot of amnesia and that there has been a lot of rewriting of the history of that, no doubt, turbulent and difficult period by Members to my right, in particular those in the DUP. <BR /> <BR />The COVID-19 inquiry told us that our local institutions failed and that political disputes trumped the public good and what was good for people's health. However, what the inquiry did not say loudly enough is that that was entirely predictable to anyone who watches this place, at present or in the past. While thousands of people died, often alone, and were denied the company of loved ones to comfort them, our political system was paralysed by sectarian vetoes and political point-scoring.”
“The Minister talked about access to the labour market. Can he expand on that and what will it look like? How will he ensure that people whose personal independence payment (PIP) has been cut and who have lost their mobility car, will be able to get into work? <BR /> <BR />Quickly — with your indulgence, Mr Deputy Speaker, given the time of year — as the Minister has been speaking, I have been tagged online by Dermot Devlin. He, alongside three members of the disability strategy co-design group, has published a brief outlining concerns about the strategy. I have not read it yet, but will the Minister commit to engaging with Dermot and members of the group to hear their concerns?”
“D’fhreastail mé féin ar chuid de na himeachtaí Dé hAoine, agus tá taispeántas an-suimiúil ann thuas staighre sa Chultúrlann. Bhí spiorad Ghearóid le mothú an deireadh seachtaine ar fad. Arís eile, comhghairdeas mór le gach duine a d’eagraigh an scoil.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Chomhairle. Tá sin iontach cinéalta. Nollaig shona duit. <BR /> <BR />Ba mhaith liom cúpla focal gasta a rá faoi rud a bhí ar siúl ag an deireadh seachtaine in Iarthar Bhéal Feirste. Tá moladh mór tuillte ag na daoine sin ar fad a d’eagraigh Scoil Gheimhridh Ghearóid Uí Chairealláin — bhí an-rath ar fad uirthi. <BR /> <BR />Ba cheannródaí teanga agus pobail é Gearóid Ó Cairealláin. Bhí sé mar chuid de ghrúpa Gaeilgeoirí a bhunaigh an Chultúrlann. Bhunaigh siad an nuachtán Lá, Raidió Fáilte agus, ar ndóigh, Meánscoil Feirste. D’fhág Gearóid lorg ollmhór ar an Ghaeilge ó Thuaidh. Is tábhachtach an rud é Scoil Gheimhridh a bheith ann a thabhairt ómos dó. <BR /> <BR />Bhí plé breá ann ar an iriseoireacht, ar an ghníomhaíochas, agus ar an teanga.”
“does the Member agree that the DUP culture war, not wanting to see or hear Irish, needs to come to an end and that we owe a debt of gratitude to our interpreters who, while a small team, do exceptional work for me and other Members across the House? <BR /> <BR />Also, can the Member outline whether the Commission has received any complaints or issues about Pi Comms, which does not employ our interpretation staff, but provides the facilities to allow us to record speeches and items in the Chamber?”
“I would welcome the Minister's moving on that in some other capacity, but I fear that he might tell us that the time has gone. I hope not, but that is what I fear. That is a missed opportunity in an otherwise, for the most part, positive Bill. <BR /> <BR />My final point is about payment. I welcome the fact that this was pushed by some members of the Finance Committee, and I recognise that there has been some movement from the Department. However, I reiterate the fact that, even if it is one person, a charge for the second or third copy in circumstances that we do not know about and that, frankly, are none of our business could create unintended consequences, to use the terminology of this place. I repeat my issue with that. That could be problematic, to put it mildly, for people going through a bereavement process. I will leave it there.”
“They may be — I emphasise the words "may be" — traumatised or in need of more in-depth support and counselling services, and I fear that those services are not in place. I repeat the previous point that I made: the Finance Minister needs to work really robustly with the Health Minister to expand those services to make sure that they are in place not only as a general point but to protect those people and support them when they come forward. <BR /> <BR />The other point that I want to make is that there has been some progress in the Bill on support for same-sex couples, which I welcome. That is a positive move, but there are gaps when it comes to same-sex couples who live in the North but go through IVF treatment in the South. The non-birth mother cannot be on the birth certificate, and that is an oversight and a missed opportunity.”
“<BR /> <BR />I extend my sympathies to everybody in the House and on the Committee who shared their heartfelt trauma and stories and to my constituents who have been through baby loss, stillbirth or miscarriage. I can only imagine that it is traumatic to share that, but I commend them for doing so. <BR /> <BR />I have two quick points. There are still some issues in the Bill that have not been addressed that I raised throughout the process. There are huge gaps in the existing bereavement services. I pay tribute to people who provide counselling and support services in the trusts and elsewhere, but such a small number of people do that. There is probably an expectation that, as a result of the Bill, more people will come forward to get a certificate, as is their right.”
“Like others, I hope that the Bill provides some solace and comfort as part of the healing process for people who been through bereavement, loss and tragedy. Some will want a certificate to recognise their loss, which is their right, and others may not. It is not for me or anybody else to dictate that. However, as Members have said, a certificate can be important for people to acknowledge their loss and give them that space. I genuinely hope that the Bill will have a positive impact and help people who have experienced that trauma and bereavement. Despite some criticisms and shortcomings, that is a genuine view that I and others have.”
“I declare an interest as Glór na Móna is in my constituency and I regularly attend community events at the site. Minister, your Department is responsible for ending violence against women and girls, historical institutional abuse, the Programme for Government and leading the Executive response to all sorts of strategies. Do you agree that that is what Members should be focusing on? Do you agree that it is quite pathetic that people are trying to focus on a damaged picture? Despite attempts to try to make it so, there is no evidence of a damaged picture being about racism or antisemitism, and people to my right are grasping at straws.”
“Minister, I am sure that you are aware of the Unite the union's hospitality campaign — the 'Get me home safely' campaign — which includes employers getting hospitality workers home safely after they have worked until the late hours of the night and the morning, zero tolerance on harassment and other issues. Can you confirm whether aspects of that will be in the 'good jobs' Bill?”
“Despite the Minister's attempt at deflection and all sorts of red herrings, does the Member agree that there is a cost to not implementing free school meals, insofar as there are financial as well as health, emotional, social and other impacts on children and young people?”
“The wealth of the world's billionaires grew by $2 trillion — $5·7 billion per day — in 2024, and we have the cheek and the nerve to say that there is not money for free school meal provision. Pull the other one. <BR /> <BR />We tell working-class families that they must pull themselves up by their bootstraps, as they struggle to choose between heating their homes and feeding their children. Poverty among children and pupils is a choice. The Executive must choose whether they will opt in or opt out. I support the motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />Universal free school meal provision is entirely feasible. It has been introduced in Sweden and Wales. Until universal provision is achieved, there should, as a bare minimum, be a price cap on school meals to provide support to the children who need it most. In addition, the holiday hunger grant, which was first introduced in the North during the COVID pandemic, should be immediately reinstated. The Member for West Belfast Danny Baker is proposing to do that through a PMB that we will support. Over 100,000 children benefited from those payments. We cannot allow working-class children to go hungry over the holiday period, and we will not accept the excuse that the money simply is not there. To those who say that the money is not there or that it is utopian, I say the contrary.”
“That has not only exacerbated the conditions faced by working-class families in my constituency and elsewhere but put immense pressure on food banks, which those families depend on more and more, year after year. The level of reliance on food banks to meet people's basic needs is totally immoral and unsustainable, and it cannot continue. The universal provision of free school meals would be a far more effective and efficient approach than means testing. It would alleviate the pressures on working-class families and provide a far broader group of children with a nutritious meal each day. That is the bare minimum of what is necessary for children to stay focused and learn. Alongside that, it would be beneficial — ideal, really — to introduce sustainably sourced school meals that support local food production and reduce food waste.”
“Across the North, there are over 100,000 children living in poverty, and one third of the children in my constituency of West Belfast live in poverty. That is absolutely unacceptable and immoral. The proposed 20% increase to the cost of school meals will only harm the families in poverty and on low incomes who are not eligible for free school meals. As Members have stated, only 59% of children in poverty are eligible for free school meals. That means that 41% of children living in poverty are being denied free school meals simply because they do not count and do not matter. <BR /> <BR />Alarmingly, the number of families eligible for free school meals and uniform grants over the past two years has fallen by 3,000.”
“I appreciate the Minister's giving way. I agree with him on water charges, but can he expand on other aspects of revenue raising? I think that he said in recent days that he would look at that again. What is he proposing that we do to raise revenue?”
“That is obscene and totally grotesque, and we are long past the time to abolish billionaires. That should be the stated policy of the Executive and all Governments across these islands. Instead of being in awe of and beholden to people who are often described as wealth creators but who are inequality defenders, we need to tackle wealth and abolish billionaires in order to have some fairness and decency in our communities.”
“The Executive need to demand, with one voice, a wealth tax. A wealth tax on the richest 2% across these islands could, for a start, bring in £160 billion over several years. Corporation tax needs to be increased rather than reduced, as previous Executive parties agreed to do. If there has been a Damascene conversion on that, I would certainly welcome it, but the Executive need to demand that corporation tax be increased. We need to see an end to the drive to militarisation and the huge increase in spending on war. <BR /> <BR />In closing, it is worth reminding ourselves that billionaire wealth across these islands has exploded over the past 35 years. In 1990, there were 15 billionaires in Britain, but there are now 156. In the South, we have seen billionaire wealth increase by €13 billion in the past year alone.”
“That idea will not work, because it will punish people who have already paid for their water. There has been some suggestion about paying for GPs, which is another ludicrous idea that would put more barriers in place for people who are already struggling to get access to their GP to receive healthcare. The current Economy Minister maybe had some flirtation with the idea of increasing university fees, but, thankfully, she backed down after people opposed the idea. That would not only be unfair but would be totally counterproductive. <BR /> <BR />As other Members said, a multi-year Budget could — I emphasise the word "could" — give some Departments the ability to plan ahead, but the devil will be in the detail of the Budget. If we have stringent single-year Budgets repeated over three or five years, they will still be insufficient.”
“If you are talking about reallocating and stopping the £80 million or so for industrial derating, which is, to repeat, a handout to multinational corporations, I am with you. If you are talking about tackling, alongside the Minister for Communities, the hundreds of millions of pounds that are going to landlords to subsidise increased rents, because rents are not capped or reduced, I am with you. <BR /> <BR />However, if you are talking about kicking working-class people again, we will part ways. I will say, "No, thank you", and we will fight any proposals that do that. Prescription charges are being touted again, and everybody in the House should resist that. Although this Minister has ruled them out, water charges are unconscionable, given that people have been paying for water for decades.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is clear that we need a different path and a different system in order to meet the needs of not only my community but the wider constituency across the North. As a start, the Executive and the Finance Minister should refuse to engage in the groupthink that is Treasury economics, which considers fiscal prudence and being in the black to be more important than the social consequences of terrible economic decisions. <BR /> <BR />In recent days, the Finance Minister has referred to the need for revenue raising. I agree with him but have one big caveat. The question that I want to ask him is this: from whom will you, Minister, and the Executive seek to raise money? If you are talking about ending the landlord allowance, which sees millions of pounds going into landlords' pockets every single year, I am with you.”
“It is clear that the current economic and political system is not broken but working exactly as intended. The economic system that we live under was never designed to tackle wealth inequality. It was never designed to tackle record levels of deprivation, which includes, disgracefully, one in three children in my constituency living in child poverty. The current system is unable and unwilling to tackle the ever-increasing cost of food, the price of which is shooting up year-on-year, making it unaffordable for people right across the North. The system that we live under refuses to tackle year-on-year increases in rent, with landlords ripping off tenants while the Executive say, "Fill your boots, lads".”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with that. Does she agree that there is a lack of financial support for rural families and children and young people who are being forced to travel? That gap really needs to be closed, and the Minister needs to address that point as well.”
“We therefore need the Department to work with local communities to prevent the causes of cancer and to spot signs at the earliest possible stages. Interventions such as smoking-cessation clinics and targeted lung-screening programmes will help, but, ultimately, we need to deal with health inequalities and the gross wealth inequality to which the Minister has alluded. Action needs to be taken to eliminate health inequalities and treat cancer.”
“Children and young people travel around twice as far and spend twice as much as older adults with cancer, with there being just one principal treatment centre in the North, which is in Belfast. Only 8% of families receive support with their travel costs. That is simply not good enough and puts additional strain on low-income families, who are already dealing with a devastating cancer diagnosis. <BR /> <BR />Cancer affects us all, rich or poor, but the burden is not distributed evenly. Shockingly, death rates from cancer are 60% higher for people living in the most deprived areas. That is certainly the case in the UK, and it is probably the case across these islands. There are 78 extra cancer deaths as a result of deprivation each and every day. Nobody should face a greater risk of death from cancer simply because of where they live.”
“Too many children and young people, and, indeed, people of all ages, face an uphill battle for their health concerns to be treated seriously enough for them to get a referral or a diagnosis. Too many cancers are diagnosed in an emergency setting, and only 42% of people diagnosed with cancer in emergency departments survive beyond a year. They should obviously not be diagnosed there. <BR /> <BR />We need quicker access to high-quality cancer services and a better experience of diagnosis. We need wrap-around support for people who are facing a cancer diagnosis, including counselling and access to mental health services, as well as financial support. The cost of practical but essential things such as travel and accommodation should never be a barrier to getting cancer treatment, but, unfortunately, it is.”
“At the bare minimum, the Department should regularly publish more comprehensive data on waiting times — I do not know anyone who could disagree with that — as well as the disaggregated data on children, young people and women within broader cancer statistics. That is crucial in order to understand the reasons behind delays and what is being done to fix them. <BR /> <BR />Children and young people also need to be mentioned in the debate, given that 125 children and young people, all under the age of 25, are diagnosed with cancer each year in the North. Young Lives Vs Cancer reports that most young people do not tend to wait a long time from diagnosis to treatment, but there are significant delays in their even getting a diagnosis after first presenting to health services.”
“In England and Scotland, around 70% are being treated, so we are way behind. <BR /> <BR />Missing the 62-day target is just the tip of the iceberg, as that includes only GP red-flag referrals. It does not include screening, non-urgent referrals or emergency department presentations, so we do not have access to some very basic but important information, including on how long people are waiting from diagnosis to treatment. <BR /> <BR />I was made aware of the case of a man who was red-flagged for prostate cancer in January. He started his treatment only this month, in November, and it seems that he will now need treatment for a year. How different would his outcome be had he been treated in time?”
“The longer that people wait for a diagnosis and for treatment, the more that opportunities for treatment are missed. The 'British Medical Journal' estimates that a four-week delay results in a 6% to 8% increased risk of death. Not to be dramatic or flippant about it, but that can be a death sentence for so many people. <BR /> <BR />Cancer Research tells us that, in the past year, 3,500 people with a red-flag referral did not get their treatment on time. Members have already said that, but it is worth repeating that shocking statistic. Those are people with the most serious and urgent cases of suspected cancer, and the 62-day target from referral to first treatment has never been met in full since it was introduced in 2008. Right now, less than a third of patients in the North are being treated within 62 days.”
“I acknowledge the significance of Members' speeches. I pay tribute to Sinéad, and I wish her friend or family member the best. I am glad to hear that Órlaithí's mother has received good news. Although I do not know him, it would also be remiss of me not to mention Ernie Irvine from Fermanagh, who was on the front page of 'The Irish News' today. He was forced to wait for 50 hours in Altnagelvin Hospital's ED at the weekend, despite his having cancer. That is completely unacceptable. Our best wishes go to him also. <BR /> <BR />Our cancer waiting times, as Members have said, are by far the worst across these islands, and they are getting worse by the day. Prevention, early diagnosis and fast treatment are life-saving measures and are literally a matter of life and death, as Members have indicated.”
“Have there been previous rulings against Ministers — I will not be shouted down — dismissing valid questions as "stupid questions"? Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“Does the Minister's dismissal of my question mean a breach of Standing Orders?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. During the debate on the independent review of liquor licensing, the Minister for Communities dismissed my entirely reasonable question about Unite the union's Get me Home Safely campaign as a "stupid question". Leaving aside the arrogance, Mr Deputy Speaker, Standing Order 19(5) states:”