Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“We need to ensure that there is a proper financial uplift for all the workers who put their necks on the line for all of us.”
“Just imagine people trying to have their daily walk or visit their local park or green space in the middle of lockdown without the park wardens to open the parks and make sure they were kept clean and in good condition. It is clear that, without the sterling and continued work of our council workers, the terrible experience of the pandemic would have been immeasurably worse. Of course, I should mention the other workers in councils who answer phone calls, work in the community and play many roles. <BR /> <BR />We owe our council workers a lot for the work that they did and still do. They put themselves and their family members at risk by going out to work and interacting with the public during a deadly pandemic. What will not work here is thanks or pats on the back for those workers.”
“I want to raise the issue of pay offers for our council workers, who, like our health workers and Civil Service workers, are being made an offer that is unacceptable, below inflation and way below what they deserve. Let us not forget that, while most people were able to work from home to protect themselves and their families, the front-line work of council workers and many others, including retail workers and lorry drivers, kept our society functioning to some degree when everything else had ground to a halt. <BR /> <BR />Just imagine how unbearable it would have been for people who were working from home if there were no council workers to collect bins or clean streets.”
“Otherwise, we will potentially see a spike in cases in those hospitality settings.”
“For me and many others, it was easier and simpler to avail ourselves of table service. It is easier for staff as well if they are not faced with deep queues or being pushed by impatient punters. At the weekend, I saw at least one bar with queues that were 10 or 20 people deep, which was very concerning. What medical consideration has been given to that? What work has the Minister or his Department done on engaging with unions, bar workers, hospitality workers and, especially, representatives of Unite Hospitality? What work has been done around increasing and encouraging the proper ventilation of those workplaces? That could mitigate workplace clusters emerging and protect individual staff members in hospitality. Those are serious concerns that have to be addressed, and if not today, very soon.”
“<BR /> <BR />We are now obviously deep into the pandemic, and everyone wants to see some level of whatever normality is and will be. That leaves workers struggling to make ends meet. It has to be done in a safe way that is secure for workers. Table service worked well at the start of the reopening, so I ask why the change has been considered and made.”
“There are two sets of regulations today. Although they are both important, I will focus specifically on the relaxation of the rules in the hospitality sector and how the Executive intend to protect workers in that context. The amendment (No. 15) regulations remove the requirement to be seated at tables in hospitality settings for food or drink in bars and restaurants. To be frank, I have heard mixed reports about that. Many bars may be supportive of it because they are under massive economic pressure and there has been a lack of support for hospitality workers throughout the pandemic. Many medical experts, however, express general caution and concern about the swift reopening not just here but in other parts of the world.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He referred to an issue in the Colin area of west Belfast. Does he agree that it is important that people in Colin and Poleglass have accessibility to vaccines and that they are not faced with intimidation and mixed messaging as they go to get their jab?”
“I appreciate the Minister's answer. Will he give a guarantee that the cultural and linguistic backgrounds of those who do not fit into the main binaries of Catholicism and Protestantism or unionism and nationalism will be properly regarded in the legislation?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa were tragically killed, as were many other women on this island. Following those tragic cases, has she reconsidered adopting and implementing a strategy to combat violence against women and girls?”
“<BR /> <BR />Like I said, the Bill is long overdue, but I welcome it today and ask for further clarity on the issues I raised, either from the Minister today or from his officials at the Committee or in writing.”
“talks about the need to safeguard and promote children's welfare. Again, that did not always, or often, happen, but it is welcome that it is in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Most of the Bill seems fine, and I look forward to hearing the views of the organisations, many of which have been referred to, that are affected by it. I hope the Bill can be strengthened and condensed for them. With so many clauses, it is hard for MLAs to go through the Bill and it is probably even harder for organisations that have a lot on their plate, so I hope the Minister and his Department can take that into consideration and maybe provide a version that is condensed or easier to read.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 14 relates to inspections of premises where a child or young person has been placed by an adoption agency and allowing the Department or RQIA, as I understand it, to inspect those premises and to request records etc. I hope that the clause increases the safeguarding of children and young people, although I have concerns — I raised them in the Committee as well — about the way in which it is worded: "reasonable time" and "reasonable assistance". My concern is that it could be used or, effectively, abused to delay inspections in cases where young people or children are at risk or are not being protected or safeguarded. I would like the Minister to address that. <BR /> <BR />Clause 121, which is headed:”
“That sounds sensible, reasonable, rational and fair. Why is it being legislated for only now? I raised that question in the Committee. The Minister and Department may say that it was already happening and that that is a tidying-up exercise. That may well be the case. However, I am concerned because it appears that many people could have been let down if due consideration was not given to those issues. <BR /> <BR />Clause 6 relates to a duty to provide information on adoption services. Obviously, that is welcome and important. Again, though, people may ask why something so simple and straightforward was not already happening. If it leads to an increase in people adopting and seeking services, it is welcome and important.”
“Whilst it is important to recognise that it is in the Bill, it would be foolish not to mention that that has not always been the case — far from it. I share the view of other Members that the delay to the draft legislation has been frustrating and disappointing for those who wish to adopt and those looked-after children and young people themselves. <BR /> <BR />Frankly, I am quite astounded that some aspects of the Bill are not already in law. For example, clause 1(5) states that:”
“I want to join others in condemning unequivocally the threats that have been made against the Minister. <BR /> <BR />It would be remiss of me not to mention briefly the report on mother-and-baby institutions and Magdalene laundries, which is being published today. People have referred to it. I have yet to read the details of the report, but one thing that we knew before its publication is that the state and religious institutions not only failed young people and their families but treated them barbarically. I hope that they can get justice, and how that is defined should be up to those victims and survivors. <BR /> <BR />Quite glaringly, historically, there has not always been a child-centred approach to adoption issues or putting people supposedly into "care" — I use that term in inverted commas.”
“When you google "abortion services NI", one of the first organisations that comes up is a discredited, biased and anti-choice organisation. In light of his decision in relation to Informing Choices, what steps will he take to ensure that women here are aware of abortion services that are currently available locally and that they are able to access information that is safe, accurate and reliable?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is she as concerned as I am about the argument that cutting the budgets of Health, Education or Infrastructure is the only way in which we can have a decent and fair welfare system? Does the Member think that it is perverse that, in one of the richest societies in human history in which billionaire wealth has soared, the argument is about what we cut, rather than saying, "How do we make those who have more pay?". Is the Member concerned about that?”
“<BR /> <BR />"The money is not there", we are always told, but this Executive have given Capita £100 million, and PFI millions are spent every day, so the idea needs to be done away with that it is about education or health or welfare. We need a new economic approach, we need to fund the universal credit uplift, and, if the Tories do not budge, the Executive need to make sure that people are not thrown to the wolves.”
“It is based on the premise that people are swinging the lead and that benefits need to be reduced. We need a new and fair welfare system. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to Stormont, we are always told that money is not there, until it is found. Nurses and other healthcare workers were told that, until they walked out and took strike action in 2018-19. As for the conversation about mitigations for things like the bedroom tax that were not in place here, boasting about mitigations that people here have on the basis that people in England do not have them not only sets a low bar but is a bit like kicking someone's teeth out and then bragging about replacing them.”
“As the Tories meet in Manchester today, my message to them and the Prime Minister is this: grow a spine, go after your rich mates who have seen their wealth balloon during the pandemic, and make them pay. <BR /> <BR />The Tory dream of "get on your bike" is alive and well with the cut. The idea that was announced by some that the cut would force people to get into work is fantasy. A large number of people, 40%, who are on universal credit are already in work. People have caring responsibilities and barriers to being able to work more, if at all. <BR /> <BR />Universal credit punishes people who work longer or more hours. Lack of affordable childcare is one of many reasons why more and more people cannot work or work longer hours. While the uplift should remain, universal credit is an unfair and unjust system.”
“Frankly, the Tories are rotten and hate working-class and poor people, whether they live in the North of Ireland, Scotland, Wales or elsewhere. However, the Tories are not all-powerful. They can be forced to retreat, embarrassed, if met with resistance. What is said here matters, but more important is what happens in communities, workplaces and trade unions. Health workers, civil servants, and retail and hospitality workers will all be impacted by the cut. If the Executive do not cushion the effects of that, and the Tories do not budge, they will have failed people here. All the platitudes about learning from COVID will go completely out the window with that cut.”
“Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, for using your discretion. An important motion is being discussed. The impact of the cut looms closer. The cut to universal credit will impact on 105,000 families, and some 300,000 individuals. We know the pressure and stress that that will put on people's lives. Kevin Higgins from Advice NI has, today, talked about people's lives being at stake due to that cut. That is a harrowing, but likely, result. Already, 25% of workers earn less than the living wage, and 20% of people live in poverty. That cut, coupled with the hike in National Insurance and energy price rises, will drive more and more people into poverty, misery and destitution. <BR /> <BR />I agree with the call in the motion to put the focus and anger on the Tories.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was rising to be called to make a Member's Statement, and, I think, mine was the only party not to be called while a number of independent Members were, rightfully, called. Can you advise why that was the case, please?”
“In conclusion, if the Executive are serious about having a benefits system that properly supports people, they need to abandon their decades-long economic strategy and instead protect public services and those on benefits. Make the wealthy pay so that those who have very little can live life with at least a little dignity.”
“We will, no doubt, hear talk about Budgets being tightened by the Tories, and, indeed, they have done that, but we also have to remember that the Executive failed to mount any serious resistance to Tory austerity, and actually did their bidding. <BR /> <BR />We have spent over £100 million on Capita carrying out detested, offensive personal independence payment assessments. Hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent on agency staff in our hospitals, and I often hear a lot of feigned concern for those trapped in poverty and those who depend on food banks, even though, for decades, the five main parties signed up to tax cuts for corporations.”
“<BR /> <BR />If the Tories follow through on plans to slash universal credit, People Before Profit will call on the Executive to step in with funding to make sure that no one loses out. We need action from the Executive, not promises and aspirations about possible strategies in the future. I want to ask this: will the Executive parties commit today to finding that money to guarantee funding to make sure that no one loses out if the Tories follow through on their cruel cut? The Executive threw the people of Foyle, and those across the North, to the wolves by signing up to Tory welfare reforms, and they should not do it again. Let us commit now to making sure that no one is punished by the cruel Tory cut to universal credit.”
“Given Derry and Foyle's existing levels of deprivation, as Members have said, the cut to universal credit, out-of-control energy prices, pay cuts for health workers and new taxes will hit the area very hard indeed. <BR /> <BR />The Stormont Executive are finally talking about putting in place an anti-poverty strategy, but it will mean very little if we cannot protect people right now. It is shocking to me that the Executive have done nothing to demand a wealth tax on billionaires, rich corporations and elites. Why the silence? Where is the strategy to tackle wealth inequality? Where is the strategy to make the rich, who filled their pockets during COVID, pay?”
“Twenty-seven per cent of people in Derry and Strabane live below the poverty line. In Foyle, like in West Belfast, people have been ravaged by welfare reforms brought in by the Executive, and the Executive's determination to run public services into the ground in favour of privatisation, allowing a tiny few to profiteer, is also having a dramatic impact on people's well-being. This is all a shocking indictment of the Stormont Executive and their policies, which have propped up inequality instead of undoing it. It is true for Foyle, but it is also true across the entire North. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that people across the North, including those in Foyle, will be very hard hit by the proposed cut to universal credit.”
“I thank the Member for securing the debate this evening. I am glad to have the opportunity to discuss poverty and deprivation in Derry and in the Foyle constituency. Like in my constituency of West Belfast, far too many people there struggle with poverty, a lack of housing, low wages and the effects of decades of neglect. The failure to increase Magee to a student population of 10,000 by now is one of the many injustices that the Stormont Executive have failed to rectify, and there has been an abysmal failure to improve and vastly expand rail provision for Foyle and across the entire north-west. <BR /> <BR />As my former colleague on this Bench, Eamonn McCann, has said on many occasions, the Stormont regime of the past failed the people of Derry, and the new Stormont regime has failed the people of Derry and Foyle as well.”
“Minister, what are your views on the workers who, although not directly employed by the trusts or the Department, have been providing essential health work during the pandemic? One of the groups, B-Fast, delivers medical equipment across our communities. I think that you met its staff during the pandemic. Are those workers deserving of a special recognition payment? If so, what steps have been taken to ensure that they get one?”
“<BR /> <BR />In the run-up to the Conference of Parties (COP) 26 and at a time when we need China, the UK and the US to drastically reduce their emissions to stop the planet straying into further climate chaos, the further escalation of tensions or even outright attacks would make that highly unlikely. I have to say no to war and no to the ramping-up of war machines and war rhetoric. We need international solidarity from below to rid us of the perils of capitalism and climate chaos.”
“Wars of any kind are not only a colossal waste of public money, with exorbitant spending on nukes and missiles when citizens do not have enough money to put food on the table or heat their homes this winter, but a colossal loss of life, with people forced to sacrifice themselves for some often jingoistic, unidentifiable or unobtainable goal. They also disguise who the real enemy is. The main enemy is at home. We should be railing collectively against the elites in the US, Britain and China, criticising their hoarding of mass wealth and their inaction on other problems.”
“Despite Joe Biden talking after the Afghanistan withdrawal about ending the "forever wars", he has no problem pivoting the US to pit it militarily against China in a modern-day, ramped-up cold war, with Australia also playing a role. That further pivot against China is cause for huge concern. You do not have to be a fan of Xi Jinping or his Government to understand how catastrophic a further escalation of war would be for the people of China, Asia, the US and the world. <BR /> <BR />The US has 400 military bases in or around China, and Biden is looking for a US military budget of $750 billion. In order to justify that huge spending, the US and Britain need an enemy, and what better enemy for the US than one of the fastest-growing economies in the world, which is set to outstrip the US's standing as the great capitalist power?”
“I want to raise the Australia, UK and US deal that creates a pact to develop nuclear submarines. It should go without saying that nuclear weapons of any kind, including nuclear submarines, should be decommissioned and put completely out of use. Nuclear weapons and nuclear submarines pose huge dangers to people across the world, and we should be well beyond the point of states threatening to use those weapons of mass terror. <BR /> <BR />What seems to be driving the deal is the US belief that it should flex its muscles firmly after its disastrous interventions in and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. The US cannot stand being seen to be weak on the global stage and wants to show that it is still the big dog by ensuring the purchase of weapons of mass destruction.”
“Thank you for giving way, Minister. I advise you to read our party policy. We are for creating green jobs. We want to create jobs, whereas you want to dither while the planet burns.”
“The change needed to avert catastrophic climate change has the potential to improve the quality of life for the vast majority of people on the planet, if that opportunity is grasped.”
“We either let capitalism change everything that we know and love about the planet or we change the system itself. We need to transform our economic system in such a way that production is based on need, not profit, and on cooperative and democratic systems of worker and community control. The climate crisis is a social justice crisis issue as well, with those who have done least to cause the crisis being the most vulnerable to its effects. It is the poorest and most vulnerable in our society who feel the greatest impacts of climate change, but, whether it is the end of the world with the climate crisis or the end of the month with our wages, it is the same fight at the end of the day.”
“The change needed to our economic system and the full transition to renewable and non-carbon energy is a threat to an elite minority who have a stranglehold over our economy, our political processes and the major media outlets.”
“A climate change Act needs to be robust and challenging and have a clear and undiluted net zero target that reflects the severity of the situation. However, having a net zero and effective climate Bill is only one step in addressing the climate crisis; we also need to transform the economic system, which is at war with life on earth itself. The IPCC report calls for transformative systemic change. The dominant capitalist system is no longer sustainable. A healthy capitalist system prioritises the needs of the market for infinite growth above all else, creating greater wealth inequality and greater health inequalities and extracting resources from the earth and from workers in ways that exploit and destroy.”
“The Scottish Government established the Scottish Just Transition Commission in 2019 to advise on a net zero economy that is fair for all. The Scottish principles for a just transition state that action to reduce net greenhouse gas emissions should support environmentally and socially sustainable jobs, support low-carbon investment and infrastructure and create decent, fair and high-value work in a way that does not negatively affect the current workforce and overall economy, and contribute to resource-efficient and sustainable economic approaches that help to address inequality and poverty. That is an approach that is worth considering for here. <BR /> <BR />There is a historic duty on the House and the Executive to introduce ambitious climate change legislation.”
“To implement that — in my view; this is not in the report — you need a corporate wealth tax to cover the costs. How can this Bill have no provision for a just transition, despite the AERA Minister saying on 23 September:”
“In its report, 'Policies for the Sixth Carbon Budget and Net Zero', the CCC states:”
“It could be implied from that that the AERA Minister does not support sustainable jobs and job growth, net zero carbon investment and infrastructure, the creation of work that is of high value, fair and sustainable, and reducing, with a view to eliminating, inequality, poverty and social deprivation. The absence of the provision for a just transition from the Minister's Bill makes the case for all sectors, including the agriculture sector, to support the other Bill, as it safeguards workers as we transition to the net zero target. <BR /> <BR />The CCC said in 2019 in its report, 'Net Zero: The UK’s contribution to stopping global warming', that the concept of a just transition is widely recognised as being a crucial element of a low-carbon transition, but it is not in this Bill. On page 257 of that report, the CCC says:”
“The IPCC and the Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services — that does not roll off the tongue — are united in their view that climate change and biodiversity are interconnected and that neither domain can be addressed without effectively addressing the other. Given the growing awareness of the vital role of nature-based solutions to climate change, specific provisions have been incorporated into the Republic of Ireland's Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Act 2021. Given the importance of harnessing the power of nature to help tackle the climate emergency, climate change legislation here should, but does not, include specific provision for nature-based solutions. <BR /> <BR />As others have said — this is very important — there is no provision in the Bill for a just transition.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is too much reliance on the Climate Change Committee as the sole advisory body, and if we are to ensure that the best evidence-based information is drawn upon when devising policy, amending targets and assessing overall compliance with the legislation, advice should be sought from multiple sources such as the IPCC and the South's Climate Change Advisory Council. That is particularly important given the fact that we are on a partitioned island and the Bill does not address transboundary issues sufficiently. Obviously, climate change knows no borders. However, the CCC has confirmed that it does not concern itself with the Republic of Ireland's efforts. <BR /> <BR />The lack of mention of nature, nature-based solutions and biodiversity in the Bill is, as people have said, a major oversight.”
“The commissioner should propose recommendations for amendments to the Act that are considered necessary and desirable in order to achieve the overriding climate objective. That would keep us on track to do the most that we could in the quickest time and in a way that is fair to all. Without the scrutiny of a commissioner, it is likely that we will continue to lag behind. It is important that the climate commissioner is independent of government and free to be critical of departmental plans and policies. The commissioner must be able to speak freely without fear of funding cuts, ministerial gags or political interference.”
“Policies and plans may offer transitionary support to some sectors that are less able than others to make early cuts, but it would be wholly unjust to allow some sectors to continue to grow and produce increasing emissions while others have to make dramatic and drastic cuts. <BR /> <BR />Rather than relying on advice from the CCC alone, it is necessary to incorporate a mechanism for independently scrutinising progress on delivering the provisions of the Act. A climate office should be established, with a commissioner based here. The commissioner should review the adequacy and effectiveness of the Act, and prepare and review progress reports on the working of the Act for the Assembly.”
“Without the guidance set by climate action plans, there is a real risk that the North's response to the climate emergency will remain unfocused, contradictory and inadequate. A climate action plan should set out the Minister's proposals and policies for meeting the emissions reduction targets during the planned period and cover such areas as nature-based solutions, agriculture, food, energy, transport, waste, land use, land use change, forestry and residential and public buildings, to name a few. <BR /> <BR />Certain sectors should not be given de facto immunity from greenhouse gas reduction requirements while others are forced to carry an unreasonably disproportionate burden.”
“However, there are other indicators that should be included in similar budgeting mechanisms. For instance, nitrogen budgets should be included. Biodiversity decline is also a key indicator of climate change. Any climate change legislation for the North should reflect the importance of biodiversity as a key performance indicator in the battle against climate change. Carbon budgets should specify the limits to carbon emissions within the period of the commitment and align with the dates of the internal targets. Those should be reviewed on a five-yearly basis to reflect the most up-to-date science and any changes in global agreements on climate mitigation. <BR /> <BR />However, carbon budgets alone do not provide enough detail. We need climate action plans to provide the details that are necessary to set sectoral emissions targets.”