Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
The complete record
Every one of 4,137 lines we hold for Gerry Carroll, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 32 of 83.
“Those who run and volunteer in our food banks provide practical and emotional support to thousands of families each year. Edel Diamond, manager of the South-West Food Bank in my constituency, stated:”
“I thought that it was an intervention. No problem. <BR /> <BR />Poverty is not just the unfair and cruel end result of capitalism but a public health emergency that hits children hardest. Locally, the rate of children growing up in relative poverty grew from 18% in 2021 to 24% in 2023, so it is clearly going in the wrong direction. We are all familiar with the child poverty statistics, but there is one clear conclusion: rising rates of child poverty are a sure sign of a state that is in rapid decline. The Stormont Executive have accepted child poverty as unfortunate but, effectively, inevitable. <BR /> <BR />The de facto government response to widespread poverty has been to outsource responsibility for caring for people to food banks.”
“The highest rate of child poverty in the North is in my constituency of West Belfast, where, disgracefully, almost one in three children is living in poverty. Child poverty exists because poverty exists, and poverty exists because capitalism exists. Capitalism will never provide the jobs or resources that all of us need to live and feed our families. Poverty is not just the unfair and cruel end result —.”
“I thank the Minister for that. I will write to him about that. Does he accept that damp and mould is a public health issue and something that requires urgent action from his Department, including through legislation to deal with landlords and other housing issues that are often not tackled?”
“Leaving aside the obvious fact that nobody should be forced to pay for healthcare, will the Minister confirm why exemptions do not automatically apply when people sign on for universal credit or other benefits? Why do people have to apply annually through the HC1 form? I fear that too many people are falling through the cracks.”
“I thank the front-line workers and community volunteers for the work that they have done over the past few days. <BR /> <BR />Presumably, First Minister, there was a plan in place to deal with the storm. Will that be released for people to scrutinise? I presume that there is a TEO team that works to respond to extreme weather events. If so, how many people work in that team and how often does it meet? Can you give us some further detail on that? Unfortunately, given the heating up of the planet, this is probably not going to be the last weather crisis that we will see in the next few years.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She mentioned young males in particular dealing with mental health. Is she as concerned as I am that, given the lack of funding, resources and services here, it is quite often the case that young males in particular are being dealt with by the police when they are locked up, when they should instead be dealt with in a mental health setting? Does she agree that that is the wrong approach to take to people with mental ill health?”
“I thank the Member and agree with her. We must tackle health inequalities, and the Minister should proceed with that. We also need to tackle wealth inequality in our society. There are too many rich people and too many poor people. That is often not talked about or addressed in this Building or by the Executive. <BR /> <BR />It is inhumane to allow those with wealth to access the services that they need via private healthcare whilst leaving working-class people just to deal with it or to get on with it, as if that is a normal way of running life and society. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion, but it was important to air those points in the debate.”
“It is frankly inhumane to allow those with wealth to access the services that they need via private healthcare whilst working-class people are left behind.”
“I agree with the Member and thank him for raising that point. Community and voluntary services do a vital job, but they need to intervene when the state has failed to treat mental health as a public health issue and an emergency. Therefore, I agree with the Member's point. <BR /> <BR />Mental health services need sustainable, long-term funding. Without that, all the positive sentiments in the world from here and elsewhere will make no difference. The Executive need to be held responsible for not prioritising funding to support the mental well-being of working-class communities and communities across the board. <BR /> <BR />There should be no economic barriers to accessing mental health services.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is one thing to talk about the issues but another to act and create a change. Unfortunately, the North spends less per head of population on mental health than other regions across these islands. That reflects a systemic and repeated failure on the part of the Executive to take the mental health epidemic seriously. Funding needs to go directly to services that help people who need it most. Services, such as West Wellbeing in my constituency of West Belfast, which provides essential care to the community, are constantly battling for funding so that they can keep their doors open, pay workers and keep delivering services to people who desperately need them. Where the state has failed to provide mental health services for people in need, charities such as West Wellbeing and many others are often left to pick up the pieces.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our social security system is supposed to support people who are experiencing illness, including mental health issues, but instead the system is causing its own mental health crisis. Too many people experience anxiety when attending jobcentre appointments and personal independence payment (PIP) assessments. They experience depression when they are sanctioned and forced to live below the breadline. Our housing crisis is also driving our mental health crisis. Poor living conditions, such as damp and mould, overcrowding and hidden homelessness massively impact on a person's mental health. A 2023 survey by Depaul and the Simon Community shows that, of all the people experiencing homelessness in the North, a shocking 70% have a diagnosed mental health condition. Again, those connections are not coincidental.”
“Anti-stigma and anti-discrimination public awareness and education campaigns are important and worthwhile. We should destigmatise mental health issues, but we cannot normalise the mental health epidemic, and that is what it is. Poverty, debt, income inequality, discrimination, loneliness and climate breakdown have a devastating impact on mental health. The North has some of the highest levels of multiple deprivation in the UK and across these islands, as well as the highest prevalence of mental illness. That is no coincidence. We cannot solve the mental health crisis without challenging capitalist ideology and reality, which has created the conditions for mental ill health to thrive.”
“Issues like anxiety and depression are 25% more common among young people who live in the North than they are among their peers across the water, and we need to listen to the voices and experiences of the people who are impacted by those issues.”
“I thank the Member who moved the motion. There is no doubt that we, as a society, need to change our attitude towards mental health. Mental ill health is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. If mental health was destigmatised, more people would speak up and more people would realise the struggles that are faced by many — unfortunately, too many — across the board. <BR /> <BR />It is also vital that we look at the structural issues that affect people's mental health. Mental ill health is not a personal failing. Viewing the issue as a personal failing ignores structural oppression, especially that faced by women, people from ethnic minority communities, people with disabilities and many others.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It was indicated to me yesterday that Members who were not called yesterday for Members' statements would probably be called today. What are the criteria for selecting Members for Members' statements?”
“The motion is completely contradictory, disrespects the rights of transgender prisoners and, if acted on, would put trans prisoners in danger. I oppose it, and anyone who cares about the dignity, rights and safety of all prisoners should fundamentally oppose it too.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is also worth remembering during the debate that we cannot end transphobia without tackling the over-incarceration of people, especially the locking up of so many people who have serious mental health issues. The carceral state itself is transphobic, misogynistic, racist and oppressive at its core, and, as long as it continues to exist, the criminal legal system will deny prisoners, including trans people, the rights and dignity that they deserve. Rather than locking people up in a violent prison system, we should tackle the root causes of crime: poverty, abuse and a lack of access to education, good jobs, housing and, crucially, mental health support. We should strive for a society in which everyone's basic needs are met. That includes the needs of women, trans people and non-binary people.”
“Beyond the lack of access to basic rights and services in prison, the Westminster Women and Equalities Committee recognised "a clear risk of harm" to transgender prisoners who are placed in prisons that do not align with their gender identity. That harm includes — I emphasise this — sexual assault, harassment, discrimination and mistreatment. People should heed those words. <BR /> <BR />Given the evidence, is it in anyone's interest to force a transgender man into the female prison estate? Does anyone really think that it is wise for a transgender woman to be housed in the male prison estate where she is at high risk of experiencing physical or sexual assault and abuse? What is really motivating calls for trans people to be placed at active risk of harm? For the most part, I think, it is bigotry, misogyny and transphobia.”
“I thank the Member for her important point. I note that. It is a positive, progressive thing, and I think that most of the women's rights organisations in the South are the same. That is a positive thing as well. I was going on to talk about groups such as HERe NI, the Women's Resource and Development Agency and the Rainbow Project, which, among others, are experts on women's rights and safety as well as the rights of LGBTQ people, and they all reject the blanket approach in the motion. <BR /> <BR />Transgender people, including prisoners, have the right to be treated with dignity and respect. That includes access to appropriate clothing and gender-affirming healthcare.”
“When there is so much work to do on ending violence against women and girls, the time would be much better spent trying to prevent misogynistic violence from the earliest possible stages.”
“If it were not so serious, it would be almost hilarious to hear people talk about women's rights when their parties oppose them every step of the way. Trans people are not a threat to other women or to anyone else. The fact is that none — I repeat: none — of the 24 women killed in the North in the past four years, which is a huge number, was murdered by trans people. They were killed by cisgender men. If you do not know what that means, go look it up. In fact, trans people are at a disproportionate risk of violence themselves. Transgender Europe reports that at least 350 trans and non-binary people across the world were murdered in the past year. Most of them were trans women — not a mention of them from the Members who tabled the motion and the amendment. <BR /> <BR />Frankly, the debate is a complete waste of time.”
“I oppose the motion and the amendment. <BR /> <BR />The motion talks about providing "continuous support" for the LGBTQ+ community, whilst urging the Justice Minister to force trans women into male prisons and to force trans men into women's prisons. The denial of trans and non-binary identity in prisons is inhumane. How can that be described as "continuous support" for transgender and non-binary people? I challenge those who tabled the motion on their rationale for that. The proposer of the amendment tried to solve that contradiction by completely removing any commitment to support the LGBTQ+ community, and that is pretty telling in itself. <BR /> <BR />The so-called debate about trans prisoners is just another culture war fuelled by lies and fearmongering about a marginalised, oppressed community.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Minister has no longer any excuses for not introducing standardised RSE across the board. Teachers are under pressure — all education workers are — so does the Member agree that it would be worth looking at the amount of time that teachers spend on examinations and homework, which put a lot of pressure on them and on young people? That could be a way to look at the issue of RSE.”
“It is an age-appropriate programme to make young people aware of what abuse can look like in order to protect and safeguard them in cases in which they could be at risk of abuse. Disappointingly, the Department does not have the figures for the number of schools that have availed themselves of that possibly life-saving resource. I urge the Minister to get the data, get the research and ensure that the programme is rolled out in schools right across the North.”
“<BR /> <BR />We also need to examine critically the role of Churches and religious bodies in RSE. Churches should not have a veto over what is taught in schools or in education settings, especially when it comes to teaching young people about consent and healthy relationships. Organisations that have anti-trans and anti-LGBT agendas should not dictate school policy on what is taught either. The DUP talks about the importance of parental choice in education, especially for RSE, but, in practice, its actions show a shocking lack of respect for parental choice when it comes to school integration. The DUP cannot have it both ways. <BR /> <BR />We are also missing an important opportunity by not having a school-wide roll-out of the NSPCC Talk PANTS programme.”
“Instead, the reality is that young people are in a postcode lottery when it comes to RSE, which varies widely in quality, quantity and content, if it happens at all. <BR /> <BR />We need to fight back against racist, far-right myths about the role of so-called grooming gangs in child sexual exploitation. Those myths are being peddled by some in the House. The perpetrators of abuse and violence against women are usually males who are white. Child sexual exploitation and violence against women is, in the vast majority of cases, perpetrated by people who are known to the victim and their family. We cannot allow people's justified outrage at violence and child exploitation to be weaponised by far-right agitators, who are out only to make political gain.”
“If we want to end gender-based violence for good, we need to prevent it from happening in the first place and from the earliest possible stages. We need to change the cultural attitudes that allow gender-based violence to spread across society as well as in the home, and the best way in which to teach that is in the classroom. <BR /> <BR />Standardised and inclusive RSE should be taught in every single school across the board to help fight harmful stereotypes about gender and to promote relationships based on respect, equality and consent. High-quality RSE can stamp out sexism, misogyny, victim blaming and rape culture. The DUP amendment, if made, will effectively allow pupils to skip, as the Member for South Belfast indicated, essential, life-saving education and learning of life skills.”
“— still being reinforced by the system today. <BR /> <BR />I have plenty more to say, but, unfortunately, time is against me.”
“People should therefore be careful about the language that they use in the debate. <BR /> <BR />Any serious plans to end violence against women and girls must be clearly targeted at the root of gender-based violence. Deep-rooted, institutional misogyny stems from old ideas about women and their bodies being the personal property of men. Those ideas, as outdated as they seem, are —”
“Change has been slow. That is all that I will say, because I have limited time. <BR /> <BR />I send my solidarity to all women who have been impacted on by violence and threatening and abusive behaviour, including women in the Building who have spoken out in recent days such as the MP for Lagan Valley. <BR /> <BR />We need to be careful about focusing our language on racial minorities and on thoughts or perceptions that people from the Muslim or Asian communities are perhaps more predisposed to committing violence against women. That is nonsense. It is factually incorrect. It is dangerous language to use and a dangerous road to go down. Across these islands, perpetrators are more likely to be white and, as the Member opposite said, more likely to be a family member or known to the victim.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion. As Members have said, we should be horrified and outraged that 42 women have been murdered in the North in the past eight years. It should be a source of shame for the Executive that no meaningful progress has been made on tackling gender-based violence, the epidemic of which is, unfortunately, getting worse. In 2023 alone, more than 33,000 domestic abuse incidents were recorded. Lip service from Executive parties will not cut it. Women deserve so much more than aspirational —.”
“It causes havoc in communities and is tearing up the social fabric of communities and the connections that people have made over years and generations. This reasonable question could be asked: how many people are impacted by that policy? The Minister has told us that he does not have the figures. I seriously doubt that. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly declared a housing emergency a matter of months ago. This issue is part of the housing emergency. I support the call of the Community Action Tenants Union (CATU), Participation and the Practice of Rights (PPR), An Dream Dearg and many other organisations in calling for an end to evictions, an end to the eviction of Housing Executive tenants and a review of the current outdated policy. I will put that call directly to the Housing Executive in a matter of days.”
“The Housing Executive should be preventing people from being made homeless rather than adding to homelessness figures by turfing people out of their homes. It defies belief that it should happen to anyone in any constituency, but someone in my constituency with a visual impairment is being evicted from a home that was adapted to suit her needs. Another person in the Beechmount/Clonard area is being kicked out of a Housing Executive home despite there being at least 200 empty homes in that area. <BR /> <BR />The current succession policy, introduced in 2022 by the then Communities Minister, Deirdre Hargey, does not work. It is unfair, and it disproportionately affects children, women, people with disabilities and those from a Catholic background.”
“I am raising the issue of tenancy succession for Housing Executive tenants. In recent days, I have been contacted at my office by multiple West Belfast residents who are being evicted after suffering a family bereavement. That is completely unfair and counterproductive. The Housing Executive has been dragging its tenants through court to try to claw back homes under its succession policy. <BR /> <BR />It is important that social housing use is maintained and protected and that an avenue for people to have somewhere to live is kept open for all sorts of obvious reasons, not least because people are being ripped off by the cost of private rent in Belfast, which has reached over £1,000 per month.”
“Until we value all health and social care workers properly and end, finally, the creeping privatisation of healthcare, we will not be able to solve the recruitment and retention crisis. We will not be able to fix the chaotic scenes in our emergency departments until we reverse the effects of years of chronic underfunding, plan and coordinate our services and listen to the voices of workers on the front line.”
“That is the only reliable way to reduce response times and save lives, but, instead of increasing investment in in-house capacity, the Executive have overseen the widespread use of agencies to provide workers and of private healthcare facilities. That is exceptionally poor value for money that diverts resources away from the core funding of health and social care services. Instead of shifting the responsibility to individuals to mitigate the crisis in our emergency departments, the Executive should tackle the systemic issues that plague our health and social care system: chronic underfunding, a lack of planning and coordination and a failure to listen to the voices of workers on the front line.”
“The fact is that social care workers are simply not being paid near what they deserve. Some domiciliary care workers are not even paid for travel time between house visits. That is a scandalous state of affairs. Those workers provide life-saving, life-enhancing care to our loved ones when they are chronically ill or in their older age. <BR /> <BR />A lot of that care is privatised, and the DOH funds that privatised care as well. Rather than investing in our health service, the Department of Health is throwing good money after bad, spending millions on private ambulances: since 2020, the Department has spent, on average, £10 million a year on private ambulances. Saving lives should not be a private enterprise. The Executive need to turn the tide in order to increase capacity in the Ambulance Service's fleet.”
“That is not to mention the women who are forced to give birth in cars, on the roadside, because of a lack of support for them when giving birth. <BR /> <BR />It is not possible to talk about ambulance waiting times and the crisis in our EDs without considering the wider issues. Ambulance crews are tied up at EDs because our EDs are over capacity; our EDs are over capacity because hospital wards are full; and our hospital wards are full because patients cannot be discharged back into the community in a safe and timely way. Last Sunday, as we have heard, more than 500 people who were medically fit could not be discharged from hospital. That was partly because of a lack of care packages in the community. There is a lack of care packages in the community because of a wider crisis in social care.”
“We should remember that we are talking about people and that, on the Executive's watch, people are dying in ambulances, in our emergency departments and on the streets. On Friday morning, as we have heard, 19 of 56 ambulance crews were waiting with patients outside emergency departments. That is 19 crews that cannot respond to other emergencies in the community; 19 crews listening to emergency calls, desperate to respond but unable to do so. Years of political failure under the watch of various Ministers from various parties have normalised long queues of ambulances outside EDs and patients being treated in corridors, changing rooms and tea rooms rather than on wards. Annual winter pressures, as they are called, bring our healthcare system to the point of collapse year after year.”
“Unacceptable ambulance waiting times and a lack of capacity in the Ambulance Service are terminal symptoms of a health and social care system on the brink of collapse. It is, quite literally, a matter of life and death. The longer a patient waits outside an emergency department, the more likely they are to experience harm, and the higher the risk of death. The longer a patient waits for an ambulance after experiencing a critical illness, the higher the risk of death. <BR /> <BR />This will sound like an obvious point, but it is one that is too often missed when we talk about patient flows through the hospital system and bed-blockers: we are talking about people here, and they should be regarded as such.”
“Minister, I appreciate the answer and the fact that this is a reserved matter, but I will come back to you on some of it. You will probably have a view on it, and, given the fact that 10,000 people here are affected by the issue, I would like to tease that out. Decriminalising drugs has proven to reduce addiction and keep out of prison people who should not be there. Do you have a view on the decriminalisation approach, and have you made any attempts to try to move it forward?”
“Frankly, it is cruel that a private pharmaceutical company can dangle that in front of someone. This is someone's life; it is their healthcare as well. Will these regulations have any impact on that constituent? Could these changes in regulations benefit my constituent? Can the form of medical treatment that they have received be replicated locally? Can the profit motive that currently dictates their life be removed and essential healthcare provided? I would appreciate it if the Minister could give an answer to those questions, if not today, as soon as possible.”
“All medication should be provided to patients without any further payment from, or cost to, them. Investment in public health is key. <BR /> <BR />I want to ask the Minister a specific question about how these regulations might affect a constituent of mine. I wrote to the Minister, just over the weekend, about this; I appreciate that he might not have the letter in front of him. The person has a rare enzyme disease. She was provided with a treatment from a pharmaceutical company for two years, with no extra cost to her. That treatment has now been withdrawn from the constituent, and that is having a huge impact on her health and life. My understanding is that NICE has said that the medication is too expensive — some half a million pounds a year.”
“Having a regulatory framework to ensure that medicines are made near the patient, at the point of care, is important, and it is essential in many cases. It is important to have personalised manufactured products near the point of care owing to the nature of diseases and, as the Minister said, the short shelf life that many of the medicines have. It potentially allows medically vulnerable people to be given the best chance of improving their health. It also allows for cell or gene therapies, which often have a short shelf life, to be produced much more easily and, hopefully, readily. <BR /> <BR />As a general point, we need to ensure that there are no barriers to people receiving healthcare. There should be no barriers whatsoever, but medical companies should not be allowed to profit off the back of people's ill health and suffering.”
“The Minister is not answering the question.”
“The Minister's comments about classroom assistants were a bit concerning, in that it sounds like we are moving away from them. It even sounds as though we are making the case for fewer classroom assistants at a time when SEN workers are overstretched and overworked. Will the reform agenda involve the pausing or slowing down of recruitment? The SEN reform delivery plan rightly has input from parents, practitioners and academics. Was there any input from classroom assistants or the unions into the plan?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that, for many a year, there have been unionist Health Ministers who have been happy to have divergence between the pay of health workers here and the pay of health workers in Britain?”
“If you want an answer, listen. On elitist corporations, the DUP is the party that backs elitist corporations in the North, so I think that you need to check your facts on that as well. You and everybody else should remember that, when we are talking about the EU, we should mention the role of von der Leyen and the people who have backed Israel every single step of the way in the past year. Members should remember that when they are up to their necks in backing and supporting Israel and its horrible crimes.”
“The Member needs to be careful with his language, because "globalists" can mean very different and strange things. Maybe check the meaning of that.”