Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“On the removal of the power to determine the allowances, an independent board is, rightly, considered necessary for setting MLAs' salaries, and it is important that salaries are set fairly, objectively and with no interference from people who have a material interest in the outcome. This legislation deems it appropriate for salaries to be set by an independent board, yet MLAs will have responsibility for setting their own staffing and office cost expenditure via the Assembly Commission. There is no independence in that process whatsoever. It does not matter that the Assembly passed a resolution to confer those powers back to the Commission back in 2020; we have an opportunity now to correct that and admit that the determination of allowances needs objectivity and independence.”
“The point that I am making is that being on a higher wage does not mean that an MP, an MLA or any other public representative has the skills and knowledge to make people's lives better. By my argument, and in most people's view, it means that they are less likely to understand the daily struggles of the people whom they represent. That is why it was easy for the Labour Party to cut the winter fuel payment.”
“Apologies, West Tyrone. Another argument is that they will attract the right kind of people. The Member for Lagan Valley Mr Butler said that. The question, however, is this: what kind of people do the public want to be their representatives? Ordinary people and the people whom I talk to in the real world do not want bankers or big business CEOs as their representatives. Plenty of people from high-flying private-sector backgrounds have entered politics, only to tank the economy, such as Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss, to name but two in recent years. The UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rachel Reeves, used to work for the Bank of England and is now pushing hundreds of millions —.”
“You will take it, and your party will take it, so perhaps you will be opposition for a time. <BR /> <BR />I will move on. Another argument in favour of massive pay hikes for MLAs, and perhaps the Member for Strabane will agree, is —.”
“Listen if you will and check the website, or do what you want. <BR /> <BR />I know that the Member is perhaps passionate about getting that pay increase, but it is worth pointing out how disgraceful it would be.”
“Your party does not do that, so that is for you to explain.”
“The Member may not understand, but our party policy is to accept the average wage of workers.”
“At the most basic level, we need to have some practical understanding of the everyday lives and struggles of the people whom we represent. A salary of £70,000 or more would make MLAs become out of touch and disconnected from reality, and some are already there.”
“CPI inflation in the year up to March 2025 was 2·6%, which is a much more reasonable increase than a potential 38%, 28% or 18% hike, or whatever percentage hike may come down the track. <BR /> <BR />For the benefit of the Member for Lagan Valley, I will say that I take the average wage of people in my constituency, so, for the record, I do not get that money. <BR /> <BR />When giving evidence to the Ad Hoc Committee, the Assembly Commission said that it was reasonable to benchmark pay against comparable employment rather than against an unrelated field, but that fails to consider the role of an elected representative. We are here to represent our constituents, not, as some think, to be above them and earn far more than them.”
“<BR /> <BR />To repeat, band 3 health and social care (HSC) workers have a starting salary of just over £24,000 a year, while administrative officers (AOs) in the Civil Service start on £23,000 a year, if they can get through the interview process without the computer system crashing. That is not to mention the hundreds of thousands of retail and hospitality workers on zero-hours contracts and minimum wage being forced to work longer on Sundays. My amendment No 2 would also limit increases to the rate of CPI inflation, which acts as a restraint on the board in case there is a temptation or pressure applied to increase salaries by a disproportionate and unreasonable amount, not that an independent board would ever dream of doing that, of course.”
“It is worth elaborating on a point that was kept quiet by defenders of the process. When the public were consulted, almost 70% of respondents to the call for evidence disagreed or strongly disagreed with the proposal for the board to have regard to salaries paid to politicians in other jurisdictions. Despite what the Member for South Belfast said about my not going before the Committee, the Committee ignored the view of the public, and that is contemptible, to be perfectly honest. Despite the strength of public opinion, the provision remains in the Bill. The voice of the public does not matter. Lip service has been paid once again. No matter how often and how loudly MLAs have protested in prior debates, the provision is paving the way for a completely unjustified pay increase, and I challenge people who say the contrary.”
“The North's financial circumstances have served to line the pockets of a few extremely wealthy people and companies, but, for the vast majority of ordinary people, the financial circumstances here mean poverty and deprivation. A pay increase for MLAs that gives more weight to politicians' inflated salaries in other jurisdictions than to the everyday experiences of those whom we represent would be completely unfair, not to mention tone-deaf, hence my opposition to clause 3.”
“The Ad Hoc Committee makes a recommendation that the board must have regard to the wider financial circumstances of the North. You would presume that those would be the same financial circumstances that mean that pensioners are sitting freezing in their homes during winter, the circumstances that led to 90,000 emergency food parcels being delivered to families last year — over twice as many as five years ago — or the fact that, in the news today, we see that the North's top 100 businesses made pre-tax profits of £2·5 billion.”
“They are happy for Britain to spend billions on war and wreak havoc across the world, but they then lament and stick the boot into people for having the temerity to seek safety and sanctuary in this part of the world. The crisis in our health service was not caused by migrants or asylum seekers. It was caused by the economic policies of the British Government, and by the policies espoused by the DUP in particular.”
“A drain on public services are billionaires, tax evasion by the rich and economic policy that takes a hammer blow to services day in, day out and year in, year out. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, Starmer used dehumanising language when he referred to migrants in disgraceful terms. I want to say quite clearly that migrants are welcome in this part of the world. They are welcome in my constituency and in every part of the North, despite the fear and propaganda that is spouted by some, including in this House and in the media. The vast majority of people on this island are welcoming. There is no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker. They do not exist. It is quite ironic that parties such as the DUP, Reform UK and others wholeheartedly back Britain's foreign policy, which creates refugees across the world.”
“What it will do, however, is boost the far right, racist, anti-migrant sentiment across Britain and probably on this island. It comes at a time when, just last week, we heard the BMA say that its members are terrified of using public transport because of racist violence. People, especially those in this House, should remember that, given their language and what they say. <BR /> <BR />Racism does not just magically appear from the sky or come about organically. It comes from the top of society. Keir Starmer has, once again, made a British Government policy statement that is racist and kicks our migrant brothers and sisters. Shame on him for doing so. We hear a lot about legitimate concerns. There is a duty, especially on people in this House, to challenge lies about migration. Migrants or asylum seekers are not a drain on public services.”
“Keir Starmer's announcement yesterday was divisive and disgraceful. I suspect that Nigel Farage and Reform UK were delighted with and were rubbing their hands at the use of Enoch Powell-style language, sticking the boot into migrants or people who are seeking asylum. Most of us, and certainly those in my party, knew that Keir Starmer would not be strong in standing up for oppressed and marginalised people, but many of us did not think that he would be this bad this quickly. <BR /> <BR />One of the worst aspects of yesterday's statement is the fact that Starmer is doing it all to save his own political skin. Rattled by the far right Reform UK party, he is a cowardly weathervane, and his announcement is being used to boost his party.”
“I encourage everybody to attend the upcoming pro-trans rights events. The pace of change from this Building is slow. The only rights that were ever won were achieved when people got active, and that was through the marriage equality and abortion rights campaigns. I encourage people to get involved in such activism in the weeks, months and years ahead.”
“I hope that he agrees with me that people should not be photographed going into toilets, be they trans women or cis women. I hope that he will condemn that if it happens in this Building or anywhere else. If someone in his party was guilty of doing that, I hope that he would take swift action against them. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, we heard prevarication from the Minister. My reading of what he said was that he gave a litany of excuses for why there will not be an LGBTQI+ strategy. If this place and this Minister were left to their own devices, we could wait another 20 years for an important strategy. <BR /> <BR />For the people watching the debate, the most important thing coming out of this Building is the activism in communities and on the streets. It is an important aspect of standing up for trans rights.”
“However, when it comes to action — investing in health and social care for trans and non-binary people; challenging the application of the British Supreme Court's decision-making in the North; and granting access to gender-affirming care, such as puberty blockers — the Executive are silent and found wanting. It is not too late to do the right thing, and that includes the Opposition. It is not too late for the Executive parties to admit that they capitulated to Westminster and bowed to political pressure from the right and the far right. It is time to do the right thing by the trans community and immediately reverse the decision to deny trans youth the healthcare that they need. <BR /> <BR />The Member for North Antrim talked about "common sense" and people's "safety".”
“No. Thanks. <BR /> <BR />Putting aside the fundamental unfairness that the only way to access puberty blockers will be through a restrictive clinical trial, has a single young person from the North been prescribed medication as part of a clinical trial since last year? I doubt it. <BR /> <BR />The Executive have also refused to publish the clinical evidence that informed the decision to ban puberty blockers, despite freedom of information requests and pressure from the wider sector. If this was a good-faith decision, motivated only by clinical evidence and expert opinion, maybe the Executive would be more open and honest, but it looks like a cover up. <BR /> <BR />The Executive parties are keen to table and support non-binding motions that express vague, warm sentiments towards the LGBTQI+ communities.”
“As anyone who knows anything will know, our health service is collapsing, and our mental health services simply do not have the capacity to give trans and non-binary people the support that they need now. They are being cruelly denied access to basic healthcare. Make no mistake about it: the decision has caused huge distress and anxiety to a community that is already at a higher risk of mental ill health and suicidality. <BR /> <BR />The Health Minister also promised access to clinical trials for patients from the North, but there is no sign of those beginning any time soon.”
“Access to the medication is being blocked only for trans youth. If puberty blockers were inherently dangerous, they would be banned for everyone under the age of 18. In answer to a question for written answer that I tabled earlier this year, the Health Minister said that young trans people will be supported by the child and adolescent mental health services (CAMHS), the Knowing our Identity service and existing gender identification services.”
“No, thanks. <BR /> <BR />Restricting access to puberty blockers for under-18s is a flagrant violation of the human rights of trans and non-binary people. As I outlined, the decision also flies in the face of evidence on puberty blockers from medical professionals — not the DUP but medical professionals — and the trans and non-binary communities.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Despite what the Minister has tried to say, the inhumane ban on puberty blockers is motivated mainly by right-wing transphobia. Some of the Executive parties, such as the DUP, that extended the ban on gender-affirming care indefinitely are openly hostile towards trans and non-binary people. Other parties talked a good game but then caved to political pressure from an increasingly reactionary Labour Government. Yesterday it was trans people; today it is migrants. Who knows where else Keir Starmer will go? <BR /> <BR />It is a shame that the Opposition are siding with the Executive on the matter. The party of so-called civil rights, which tries to hold the mantle of civil rights, basically says that trans rights do not matter. It should reflect on that.”
“Young people under 18 are being directed to the Knowing Our Identity service, where waits are so long that they will be referred to Brackenburn once they turn 18 without ever having been seen by children's services. <BR /> <BR />Trans and non-binary people exist. They deserve to live in dignity, with the healthcare and economic security that we all deserve. Reversing the ban on puberty blockers will not end the oppression and discrimination experienced by trans and non-binary youths, but it would be an important first step in pushing back against the disgraceful campaign of hate. <BR /> <BR />I urge Members to back the amendment in my name and to support the motion.”
“I refer the Member to some of my points about the Cass review. I was not endorsing it; perhaps he was not listening. I also say to the Member that all forms of medication can have side effects. We saw a report in the news last week about some prescribed medication being the main reason that people are in A&E. The Member is not a medical expert, and I refer the Member to the views of the BMA, which he and his party laughed at and are laughing at again. That is my answer to the Member. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the Brackenburn clinic, the only gender identity clinic in the North, has a waiting list of up to seven years before someone can be seen by the clinic's only doctor. Those services have been consciously underfunded and run into the ground.”
“We need to listen to the voices of young trans people, who tell us that denying access to gender-affirming care and refusing to invest in timely, holistic healthcare is destroying the non-binary community. Brackenburn Gender Identity Clinic, the only gender identity clinic in the North, has a waiting list of up to seven years to be seen by the clinic's only doctor.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Women's Policy Group said that the judgement violates the right to privacy, ignores the existence of intersex people and, in some cases, will effectively force trans people to withdraw from public life and the workplace. I suspect that that is the intention of some in the House. Some local councils and others and now, seemingly, the Education Minister are using the British Supreme Court judgement as carte blanche to implement politically motivated attacks on the trans community under the guise of protecting women and young people. <BR /> <BR />We need to listen to the voices of women who tell us that they do not want to be defined by their biology or by any court or legislative body.”
“A limited and incomplete review should not be used to justify an attack on the trans community. <BR /> <BR />The Supreme Court decision was a continuation of that attack. Often, in this place, we hear calls to "listen to the experts". Well, in the case of gender-affirming healthcare, the people who provide it — the experts, if you will — have spoken. The British Medical Association (BMA) has come out and slammed the ruling, saying that it was "biologically nonsensical" and "scientifically illiterate". Parties to my right laughed at that earlier. If they want to laugh at our medical workers and their views, that is on them.”
“Maybe later on. <BR /> <BR />Most recent, of course, has been the Cass review. Much has been said about it already, but what has not yet been homed in on is how the report was biased. The review refused to hear from or have input from trans voices, leading many to conclude that it was a stitch-up. It also excluded hundreds of reviews and research into how puberty blockers are an essential part of gender-affirming healthcare for some young people. Evidence also shows that, in many cases, puberty blockers are life-saving. 'The Journal of Pediatrics' found that trans people on puberty blockers, hormone therapy or both were 73% less likely to report suicidality. There is the evidence for people who want to listen to it. Poland's guidance on trans youth healthcare describes the Cass review as having "low scientific value and credibility".”
“The women's movement, certainly on this island, has been clear about where it stands on the rights of trans, non-binary and bi people. It is welcoming and does not fall into the traps set for it. The real threat to women and women's groups is underfunding by the state and the lack of support for women who want to break out of violent and dangerous situations. The real danger to women, as is often reported, is usually from partners, ex-partners or family members, not from the trans community. <BR /> <BR />My amendment focuses on puberty blockers and reversing the Executive's decision to ban them for the trans community. Other blows have been inflicted on the community that need to be addressed. Most recent, of course —.”
“Despite talk about standing up for concerned parents or whomever else, we see those parties tailing and following the agenda of Trump, Elon Musk, McGregor, Farage, Starmer and whoever else has decided that it is worth sticking the boot into a small, marginalised community in our society. It is disgraceful, and it needs to be called out. <BR /> <BR />The only time that the DUP ever mentions women or pretends to give a damn about women's rights is when it uses them to stick the boot into another oppressed minority. The DUP is fundamentally opposed to the bodily autonomy of women and was happy for the state to prosecute women who sought abortion. Do not fall for the fake concern about women or women-only spaces.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. It is important that the motion has been brought here to be heard today. Obviously, there are omissions in the motion, hence my amendment, but it is important that the House takes a stand against rising transphobia and other forms of hate and division. Despite a crisis in our health service, an education system that sees pupils stuck in unfit and unsafe accommodation and an onslaught on personal independence payment (PIP) and other welfare support systems, we see an attack on the rights of trans people by most of the political establishment, particularly the unionist quarter of the House.”
“I condemn the threats towards you, deputy First Minister. Violence or threats of violence towards anybody are disgraceful and wrong, whoever the person is. <BR /> <BR />Given that the BMA stated that the Supreme Court ruling is "biologically nonsensical" and "scientifically illiterate", do you think that we should listen to the medical experts rather than foolishly follow the Supreme Court ruling here?”
“<BR /> <BR />On the point about Conor McGregor, his politics are, to put it mildly, extremely dangerous, worrying and damaging. It is worth the Member for Lagan Valley noting that a poll from the 'Sunday Independent' — that radical newspaper — showed that just 7% of people would vote for him in the presidential elections, even if he were eligible to stand.”
“Whilst recognising the limitations of the office of president, we should appreciate that Ireland is not a monarchy. The Irish head of state is democratically elected and is, therefore, accountable to the electorate, unlike the British royal family. Michael D Higgins's popularity stands in stark contrast to the platform that is given to left-wing parties in the Dáil and in the media. That does not mean that people prefer their socialist politics to be in the form of abstract speeches delivered by a ceremonial head of state who has little power. The popularity of Michael D Higgins suggests that the people of Ireland have an appetite for left-wing and socialist ideas and politics that is not being satisfied by the political establishment, North and South.”
“He vocally supports Irish neutrality, which is increasingly being eroded by those in power who want Ireland to abandon its anti-colonial history and align with NATO, which is an imperial military alliance that is responsible for the murder of millions of civilians. He also opposed a constitutional ban on abortion services decades before other politicians finally decided to get with the programme.”
“He has been an outspoken critic of the neoliberal economic hegemony of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, and he has rightly characterised the housing crisis as state failure and a disaster.”
“People in the North watch and listen to presidential debates and programming on RTÉ and other channels, if they are not geoblocked, so it seems completely unfair and nonsensical that citizens are not allowed to put that information to practical use at the ballot box. <BR /> <BR />People Before Profit recognises that the powers of the Irish president are limited and that the president holds limited discretionary powers that act as a check on the power of Parliament. In practice, those powers are rarely used. In effect, the president of Ireland is a ceremonial head of state, but being above politics allows the head of state more political freedom of expression, and, as has been said, the current president, Michael D Higgins, has been a key voice in Ireland throughout his tenure.”
“It should be uncontroversial to say that everyone living in Ireland should have the right to vote for the Irish president, but that is obviously not the case. Several hundred thousand Irish citizens in Belfast, Derry and across the North are being denied their basic democratic rights in elections on this island. That shows flagrant disregard for the will of Irish citizens, North and South. <BR /> <BR />As we have heard, over 70% of members of the 2013 Convention on the Constitution believed that residents in the North should have the right to vote in presidential elections, and the suggestion that people in the South do not care about the North is, frankly, nonsense.”
“Minister, you talked about building the workforce and the infrastructure required to tackle waiting lists in the long term. Many will ask how that can happen with more and more investment being funnelled into the private sector, as the statement makes clear, and more and more people being trained within the health service who will be working in private hospitals. Using the facilities of private hospitals and clinics will mean less investment in our own hospital estates and infrastructure. What action are you taking to tackle the growth of the private health sector?”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way, and I share his view on England and Wales. Does he agree that it needs to be included in the debate that, just down the road, when the Irish Government considered introducing separate water charges, there was a huge uprising of people power there? People decided that they would not pay and came out in huge numbers. People should be cognisant of that if they are advocating a separate charge for water.”
“I doubt anybody is advocating for that example to be followed, though maybe some people are. Welsh Water continues to illegally dump waste due to the state of its failing infrastructure. We have only to look to Britain for ample evidence that water charges and privatisation do not guarantee investment or clean good water. <BR /> <BR />People Before Profit will never support the quiet privatisation of our water infrastructure or the imposition of water charges on working-class people. We need to bring NI Water back in-house and allow it to be run as a properly funded public body. For that reason, I am happy to support the motion and Sinn Féin's amendment.”
“Making wealthy developers pay for investment in the network could be a fairer alternative but only if the costs are not passed down to people who are buying homes to live in. That means that the Executive must make sure that there is protection for renters and people with mortgages. So far, they have failed to act for both. <BR /> <BR />Privatisation and mutualisation are not the solutions to NI Water's dysfunction. We have seen how that has played out in England. Directors and shareholders have paid themselves billions in dividends while refusing to invest in infrastructure. Only 14% of English rivers meet the standards required for "good" ecological status. That should be food for thought. Welsh Water has been mutualised, and Welsh people pay over £500 per year for their water.”
“<BR /> <BR />Last year, the Assembly passed a motion calling on the Infrastructure Minister to consider the mutualisation of NI Water. However, mutualisation is just privatisation by another name. As I said at the time, that is nothing more than a red herring that is designed to distract us all from the fact that for years the Executive have failed to give NI Water the investment that it so badly needs. Any review of NI Water's funding and governance that tells us that the only way that we can build social homes is by seeking private finance or introducing water charges is selling a lie. Ordinary people are fed up with rates hikes, out-of-control rents, rising bills and an endless cost-of-living crisis that never seems to touch the wealthy.”
“We have to be clear that the major obstacle to economic, environmental and social progress in the North is mostly inaction and ineptitude by the Executive. The current state of our water network does not help. Poor water infrastructure is, as we have already heard, preventing homes from being built, poisoning our drinking water and leaking sewage into vital natural resources such as Lough Neagh. Each year, NI Water dumps millions of tons of untreated sewage into Lough Neagh and other waterways across the North. Seemingly, it cannot — or, rather, will not — be held to account for those actions. The fault does not lie with the workers in NI Water; it lies with the inaction of the Executive, who have starved our public services, including NI Water, of funds to the point of collapse.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with his point about the Minister. Will the Member clarify his party's position on the devolution of corporation tax? I presume that it is in favour of devolving it and increasing the rate.”
“It is time that we use our fiscal powers to break with the regressive economic orthodoxy of Westminster and the Dáil. Our public services and the ordinary people who use them depend upon our doing that.”
“Mr Speaker, I will continue. Each year, £73 million of public money is being spent on the likes of Moy Park, Caterpillar and Coca-Cola. There is no opposition to that from Mr Buckley, who claims to stand up for the common people. <BR /> <BR />The question is this: what sort of society do we want? Do we want one that welcomes big businesses with open arms, bends over backwards for them and gives them endless rates and tax breaks while they exploit workers and the local environment and one that, frankly, plays into the hands of the Trump economic agenda? Or do we want one that forces huge corporations and the millionaires and billionaires — they do exist on this island — to pay their fair share? A radical redistribution of wealth is the only way to materially improve the lives of the majority of people here.”