Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“I declare an interest: I have a sibling who runs a dental practice in Belfast. <BR /> <BR />NHS dentistry has been under threat almost since its inception, but it is now close to breaking point. People who live here are twice as likely to have filled teeth as people in England, and children here are three times as likely to have multiple teeth extracted under general anaesthetic. As has been mentioned, children in the most deprived areas, including in my constituency of West Belfast, are the least likely even to be registered with a dentist. As has been said, areas in which dentists no longer accept new patients are already being called "dental deserts". These days, most if not every community could probably be described as a "dental desert".”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. I appreciate also that he has not had a huge amount of correspondence on the issue. I agree with him on challenging the conspiracy theories about 5G and 4G. However, we have a concern that network companies could use the attacks as the sole excuse for there being bad signal, rather than it being caused by infrastructure decisions that they have or have not made. Is the Member concerned about that as well?”
“I would like to hear the Minister's assessment of the situation and about what powers she will use to compel those companies to pay back people what they are owed for a lack of service and coverage.”
“It is therefore clear that, in the North, in Britain and in the South of Ireland, the privatisation of telecommunications services and infrastructure has been a disaster for those who work in sectors that rely on those services but has been profitable for those who are at the helm. It is not an anomaly that such profits and revenues are being made by companies that were once viewed as providing essential public services. The telecommunications companies are interested not in service or infrastructure but in the bottom line of profit. It is absurd that we have four, five or more private networks competing with one another, fighting for market share and people's bank accounts. Internet and mobile phone coverage should be treated as a public utility and provided to individuals at no extra cost.”
“Mobile phone networks in Britain generated at least £3·5 billion in revenue in the year ending 2023. The BT group, up to March 2024, had revenue in the region of £21 billion. Who knows what BT's figures will be next year when it completes the likely sale of its shares in TNT Sports to the US joint venture partner Warner Bros. Discovery?”
“<BR /> <BR />The other side of the debate is, of course, the financial cost borne by those who are impacted on by inadequate phone coverage. People on contracts are still paying hefty monthly bills to the providers, regardless of the service provided. It is time for the network providers to show some compassion for the individuals and communities affected by coughing up and paying them the money that they are owed. Of course, I am talking about the shareholders, the chief executives and those who make the financial decisions, not the ordinary workers at those network provider companies. <BR /> <BR />The fact that phone masts have been damaged needs to be challenged and called out, but that is not the whole picture and does not explain why there is such a bad connection.”
“There is also a question of privacy, with some people forced to take personal calls in parts of the street that have a better signal than is available in other parts of the street or area or in their home. <BR /> <BR />People have also reported to me and our office that they have missed universal credit telephone interviews. I hazard a guess — I am probably right — that people have been sanctioned for not being able to take those calls. That is, of course, not to mention those who rely on the emergency services, including elderly people, people who suffer from mental health issues, people with medical complications and people who have an NMO in place. Everyone, including all those people, has the right to be able to access and use their phone.”
“ADHD clinician updates have also been missed. <BR /> <BR />The network providers may try to say that, on the basis of their graphs or assessments, their coverage in the area is great. However, if you speak to anyone in the areas that have been mentioned, other parts of West Belfast and, I am sure, elsewhere in the North, they will tell you otherwise. Parents have also reported to me difficulties with schools trying to contact them. Obviously, that can be an nuisance and an annoyance, but my concern is about what happens in an emergency when a parent, guardian or carer needs to be contacted and the school cannot reach them. <BR /> <BR />Even when calls can be made and answered, people report that, half the time, they cannot have a proper conversation, with words becoming muffled and broken up.”
“The result has been a real-life negative consequences for people. People, including the Member opposite, have missed doctors' appointments, calls giving medical advice and calls from doctors because the phone signal is completely shoddy or non-existent. One parent stressed to me that she needs to use the phone to order her son's medication, a particular form of medication, every four weeks and that it takes many attempts to do that. On several occasions, that person has been on hold waiting for a receptionist in the GP surgery when their phone has died, and they have had to start the process all over again. It is very frustrating and unnecessary for that parent and many others. That same child has additional needs, and, regularly, the school cannot access the parent, despite her having the phone in her pocket.”
“I thank the Member for West Belfast for securing an Adjournment debate on this important item for discussion. It is important that we discuss it in the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />This issue has plagued a lot of constituents, particularly in West Belfast, for a long time. For years, people, particularly in the Glen Road and Andytown area, have faced serious problems with phone coverage, although Members will probably agree that, in the past nine months or so, it has become noticeably worse. Maybe 10 or 20 years ago, a mobile phone might have been seen as a luxury or an extra, but, for everyone today, it is now a literal lifeline. <BR /> <BR />Like Members opposite, my office has been contacted by people who face the consequences of dire mobile phone coverage or no mobile phone coverage at all.”
“Shame on the Members opposite for bringing a disgraceful motion.”
“As long as some sections of society blame migrants for the housing crisis, we are letting the Communities Minister off the hook. We are letting the Executive off the hook for failing to build enough homes, not reducing rents and refusing to open up tens of thousands of empty homes.”
“Are HMOs only a problem now because some people who are not white live in them?”
“<BR /> <BR />Do DUP members have any concerns about HMO landlords exploiting tenants in the Holylands and other student areas? My recollection from my time on Belfast City Council is that they are all too happy with it. Is the DUP content to let landlords charge upwards of £800 per room, raking in obscene profits?”
“The only other time that HMOs have been mentioned by his party colleagues during the entirety of this mandate was when the Member for Upper Bann, during his recent Member's statement, shamelessly tried to scapegoat migrants for the housing crisis. Some people would question the DUP's legitimate concerns about HMOs. <BR /> <BR />What exactly is the link between "illegal" immigration and the rise in the number of HMOs? Is the DUP able to point out any evidence that clearly links the two? If anyone were to look into it, they would find that the vast majority of tenants in HMOs are people who were born here. The rise of HMOs has nothing to do with migrants and asylum seekers. HMOs are an efficient way for profiteering landlords to line their pockets as quickly as possible. It is a simple as that.”
“<BR /> <BR />I remind the Members to my right that their party colleague the Minister for Communities is responsible for housing. In case they have forgotten, I say that he has overseen an escalation of the housing crisis: average rents in Belfast are over £1,100; almost 60,000 people from 30,000 families are officially homeless; and 12,000 families have been waiting for social housing for more than four years. <BR /> <BR />HMOs are a part of that housing crisis. To his credit, the Member for East Londonderry to my right asked the Infrastructure Minister about the impact of holiday lets and HMOs on residential areas.”
“The people in those hotels are not able to cook meals or wash their clothes. Many of them have curfews and their rights limited. <BR /> <BR />The £400 million spent on accommodation over 10 years is not a small sum, but it pales in comparison with the amount handed over by the Government to landlords in the form of housing benefit. Every single year — every single year — £330 million is spent on subsidising landlords in the North. Landlords will always charge extortionate rents as long as Stormont foots the bill. The message from the DUP is, "Work away, lads". Who are the real scroungers? It is not migrants, refugees or asylum seekers. Many will say that it is those who rip people off with huge rents, subsidised by the state.”
“No, thanks. <BR /> <BR />Migration is a natural part of the human experience. It always has been, and it always will be. <BR /> <BR />Housing is also mentioned in the motion. It is true that the estimated cost of accommodation for asylum seekers in the North has risen to around £400 million in 10 years. Some people, when they hear that number, think that asylum seekers are living in the lap of luxury. Some people believe the lie, which is spread by the far right, that asylum seekers live in luxury hotels and B&Bs, while so-called local people are left to rot on the streets. In reality, hundreds of asylum seekers across the North are living in inhumane, oppressive conditions. I was going to invite the Members to my right to visit those hotels, but maybe that is not a good idea given what they have said today.”
“The term "illegal" places the focus and blame on the person, rather than on the violence of border regimes and the difficulties and complexities of displacement and loss of status. People might come to Ireland to seek safety, and they might be forced to take unsafe routes to get here, but no human being is illegal. Migration is a natural —”
“No, thanks. <BR /> <BR />They are people who are fleeing war, ethnic cleansing and persecution. A very small number of migrants come here in search of a better life: they should be supported. Would anyone on the Benches to my right try to deny that they would not do the same? Would they not try to make a better and safer life for themselves and their families if they were in the same position? Yet, when migrants arrive here, they are often met with hostility, racism and violence. That hatred is consciously stoked up by the likes of the DUP. Shame on you, and shame on the proposer of the motion. <BR /> <BR />Describing fellow humans as "illegal" is where the hostility starts. The use of the word "illegal" to describe people who move across borders has been condemned by the UN and other organisations.”
“I oppose today's motion in the strongest possible terms. There is plenty of objectionable, inflammatory language in the motion, but I will start with the term "illegal immigration". As has been said, no human being is illegal, and that includes asylum seekers and refugees.”
“Minister, given the concerns raised about the lack of full services being provided and staff concerns about conditions, I urge you to move at speed to address both of those issues. How confident are you that there will not be a cervical scandal similar to that in the South, with those issues being raised?”
“As people in Ireland and elsewhere gathered to commemorate the Nakba, Israel continued to do what it has done since 1948. It relentlessly targeted Palestinian towns, villages and hospitals once again. Just yesterday morning, 23 Palestinians were killed. I ask these questions: do the lives of the millions of Palestinian hostages not matter? Do the lives of the 100,000 Palestinian hostages who were killed not matter? It is important that truth continues to be spoken to power. I commend people for continuing to protest. I also commend Louis Theroux for his excellent documentary, which showcased the truth behind the Israeli state.”
“It continued the sorry trend of settler colonialism — a project that has caused devastation worldwide and that would collapse without the military and financial support that it has.”
“In response to the brutality of the Holocaust and the industrial attempts by European fascist powers to wipe out Jewish people, Zionism grew. Palestinians should not have been forced to pay then or now for the vicious crimes of antisemitic parties and forces in Europe — something that people in the House should do well to remember. <BR /> <BR />Since day one and before its inception, Israel has been backed by Western imperial powers.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Over the weekend, in Belfast and across Ireland and the world, people gathered to commemorate the "Nakba" or, in English, "Catastrophe". The event marks the founding of the Israeli state 77 years ago this month. The Israeli state was founded in ethnic cleansing, displacement, slaughter and the belief not in coexistence but that it is OK to steal and occupy another people's land. <BR /> <BR />Zionism never did and does not today speak for all Jewish people, and a large number of Jewish people are defying what Israel represents. It is worth emphasising and challenging one of the many lies that Israel is based on: Palestine was not a land without people. It had people, culture and history for thousands of years.”
“In recent months, there has been political consensus that, rather than punishing the poor, we should find more progressive ways of raising revenue for our public services. Despite that, the war on the poor continues unabated. Ordinary people are being hammered by a 5% increase to the regional rate this year, with absolutely no improvement in the delivery of services to justify it. Young people face possible tuition fee hikes of more than £1,000 a year. The Sinn Féin Economy Minister refused to rule that out the other day; I hope that the Sinn Féin Finance Minister will not refuse to rule it out today. Students already pay extortionate rents —.”
“Tá Gaelscoil an Lonnáin, atá i mo thoghcheantar féin, suite i láthair atá as dáta agus nach bhfuil fóirsteánach. Iarraim ar an Aire Airgeadais an maoiniú a chur ar fáil le go dtig leo suíomh nua agus scoil nua bheith acu.”
“Cead agat spás breise bheith agat do dhaoine óga, ach ní mhaoineoidh muidne é. Tá sin go huile is go hiomlán scannalach. Iarraim ar an Aire Airgeadais agus ar a chuid feidhmeannach aird a dhíriú ar an cheist sin go luath, in éineacht le feidhmeannaigh na Roinne Oideachais. £4.4 milliún an buiséad a bhí ag ciste Pathway anuraidh. Gealltar £4.2 milliún i mbuiséad Stormont don chomórtas gailf, the Open, i bPort Rois i mbliana. Beidh neart daoine ag cur na ceiste: an léiriú é sin ar thosaíochtaí polaitíochta an Choiste Feidhmiúcháin? Ar ndóigh, sin gan trácht a dhéanamh ar an drochbhail atá ar neart Gaelscoileanna ar fud an Tuaiscirt. Beidh neart daoine ag cur na ceiste: cad é an mhaith Aire Airgeadais nó Céad-Aire ó Shinn Féin ann má tá drochbhail ar scoileanna, in aineoinn iarrachtaí na n-oibrithe atá iontu?”
“Our health and social care services, our social security system and the wider economy will all suffer as a result of the tens of thousands of people being forced into poverty, destitution and unemployment, but that is another problem for another day under this Budget. As long as the Executive are content for Westminster to hold the purse strings as our public services crumble, there is no time to take a step back and think about whether the rich should finally start paying their fair share. <BR /> <BR />The Department of Education has a legal duty to encourage and facilitate the development of Irish-medium education. Tá mé iontach buartha faoin scéala faoi Bhunscoil an tSléibhe Dhuibh. Cheadaigh an Roinn iarratas ar rang breise naíscoile, ach dúradh leis an scoil ó shin gur rith maoiniú chiste Pathway as.”
“The Executive could take measures that would require minimal investment, including rent controls and a no-fault eviction ban, but maybe the cost of upsetting landlords is just too great to bear. No doubt the Department will be allocated more money for social housing in dribs and drabs through monitoring rounds, but that is no way to fund a social housing development programme that is supposed to prioritise the building of social housing on the basis of need. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to social security. At least 35,000 people in the North will be impacted on by the Labour Government's cuts to personal independence payment (PIP) and universal credit. There is no money in the Budget to mitigate those inhumane costs, never mind the two-child limit, which affects nearly one in five children in my constituency.”
“The Department's equality impact assessment states that the constrained capital budget for housing will have a disproportionate impact on almost all section 75 equality groups. That should come as no surprise; the housing crisis does not discriminate. Migrants are victims of it as well — something that the Members who tabled tomorrow's motion would do well to remember. More and more working-class families are waiting for social housing, because they cannot afford private rents of £1,000 or more a month in Belfast. In the meantime, they are sofa-surfing or living out of suitcases in temporary accommodation, far from work, school, friends and family.”
“That simply means that more people will be stuck in our hospitals, unable to go home with an appropriate care package in place, which means more people waiting in corridors in A&E for a hospital bed to become available, more patients sitting in ambulances waiting to get into A&E and more people in a state of medical emergency waiting for an ambulance that will take hours or days to arrive. Is that one of the "catastrophic cuts" on which the Minister will refuse to sign off? Any investment in tackling waiting lists that relies on making cuts or efficiency savings elsewhere in the system is a recipe for complete disaster. <BR /> <BR />An extra £100 million for housing in the Budget means around 1,000 new social homes this year. That falls far short of the Department's target of 2,000 per year.”
“Apart from the madness of strengthening the private sector at the expense of the NHS, most of the £215 million ring-fenced to tackle waiting lists is not even extra money. Some £165 million has already been ring-fenced in the Department's general allocation, which the Department says will intensify the need for Health and Social Care to make further savings to live within its means. Presumably, the Minister's plans to tackle waiting lists will be funded by cuts to vital services such as domiciliary care packages.”
“but the Executive plough on. In practice, that will look like pay deals for workers that are lower than those implemented in Britain, reduced funding for the community and voluntary sector, a restriction of domiciliary care packages and fewer care home beds. <BR /> <BR />The Budget announcement made in April by the Finance Minister did bring some welcome news, with increased funding for tackling health waiting lists. However, plans to increase our reliance on private hospitals to clear waiting list backlogs are nothing more than stealth privatisation, and the reimbursement scheme will pay back patients who can afford to pay up front for private treatment south of the border. That is effectively a subsidy for private hospitals in the South.”
“The Northern Ireland Confederation for Health and Social Care (NICON) described the cuts as:”
“It would be fair to describe this Budget as another year of crisis management: another year of what were once winter pressures in our emergency departments but are now pressures felt 365 days a year; another year of a housing waiting list that is growing whilst private rents soar and landlords evict tenants into homelessness; and another year of toxic algae spreading across Lough Neagh and our waterways like a disease. This is another cruel, punishing Budget for working-class people, and I will vote against it. I urge all Executive parties that complain about Westminster austerity to do the same and refuse to do Keir Starmer's economic bidding. <BR /> <BR />It looks like health and social care trusts are expected to generate hundreds of millions of pounds in savings — otherwise known as cuts — this year.”
“As part of their work on the Bill, have the Minister's officials looked at addressing the anomaly that is affecting some of my constituents who are unmarried same-sex couples who live in the North but went through IVF treatment in the South. My understanding is that, as things stand, the non-birth mother will not be named on the birth certificate. That seems to be an equality and rights gap. Has the Department looked at that?”
“Minister, can you detail whether your Department has given funding through community arts funding to any organisation that has been publicly singing:”
“Despite your opening comments, Minister, not only have you picked a fight with the BMA but it seems as if you have brought your boxing gloves, head guard and the gumshield. The statement is laden with events and accusations that the BMA may challenge, but I will leave that up to it. You talk a lot about collaboration and working together since you took up post: how does the statement meet that threshold?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you illuminate the House on how Mr Aiken's comments align with Standing Orders, particularly Standing Order 24A(6)(d) on Members' statements? Will you also remind him that to claim that people are antisemitic just because they support the rights of Palestinians is a disgraceful slur against the name of anybody who stands up for Palestinians and does a disservice to the many Jewish people in America and across the world who stand up for Palestine?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. How does he respond to the fact that, in the call for evidence, 69% of respondents disagreed or strongly disagreed that the board should have regard to salaries paid to Members in other jurisdictions? If the Member was so keen to hear my views, and I thank him for that, I refer him to what I said in the Second Stage debate on the Bill.”
“The Member is being kind in giving way. He talks about limiting the pool. I remind him that there are over 250,000 trade unionists in the North, so that is a lot of people for the Committee and the panel to choose from.”
“I thank the Member for giving way again. What is the Member's assessment of the fact that, in the call for evidence, 69% of respondents disagreed or strongly disagreed that the board should have regard to the salaries paid by legislatures in other jurisdictions?”
“Thank you. If former MLAs can sit on the board, how can the Member justify saying that such a board will be independent? If you stepped down as an MLA tomorrow, you could sit on it and set the pay of your colleagues. How is that independent?”
“<BR /> <BR />I am happy to support amendment No 11 in the name of the Member for North Antrim, who made some very important points about parties wanting to shut down public consultation on this process. I support the amendments in my name.”
“That is not what is being proposed with this Bill. As it stands, given that a former MLA can, and, if the amendments do not pass, likely will, be a member of the independent remuneration board, it is independent only in name. My amendment restores some independence and requires at least two thirds of the board to be made up of active trade union representatives. For all the positive talk about trade unions in this place, parties are seemingly going to vote against that amendment. How many times in this place have parties in the Executive restricted the pay of workers and trade unions, yet they do not want them to have any say over the pay or allowances of MLAs?”
“<BR /> <BR />On the membership and independence of the remuneration board, 81% of people who responded to the call for evidence — another high number — agreed or strongly agreed that MLAs' salaries and pensions should be set by an independent board rather than the Assembly Commission. Despite that, the Bill makes provision for a former MLA to take a seat on the independent board. There is no independence there if a former MLA is sitting on it. Ask anybody outside this Building and they will say the same. Former MLAs on the remuneration board will have responsibility for setting the salaries of their party colleagues as well as their own pensions. Scratch my back and I will scratch yours. <BR /> <BR />People Before Profit supports the principle of a remuneration board that is truly independent.”
“In its evidence to the Ad Hoc Committee, the Commission stated that allowing the board to make determinations on MLAs' expenses would result in the board being bogged down with work, with considerable cost to the public purse. Pull the other one. Surely one of the main aims of the independent remuneration board is to achieve good value for public money, not a stitch-up. Given that Ministers have no problem jet-setting around the world to events and conferences with no tangible outcomes and staying in opulent five-star hotels, it is hard to believe that some Executive parties are genuinely concerned about cost to the public purse.”
“Adequate provision for staff maternity allowance, disability access to offices and the lifting of restrictions on office signage are, obviously, positive things to be welcomed, but they were addressed in 2020. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth emphasising that the majority of people who responded to the Committee's call for evidence — 53% — disagreed that powers to determine allowances should be set by MLAs themselves rather than an independent board. Yet again, parties want to plough ahead and ignore the views of the people. When people are asked for their views, the Committee and the parties here do not want to take them on board. <BR /> <BR />In Wales and in Westminster, the same independent board sets pay and allowances for politicians. Why should it be any different in Stormont?”