Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“In the Budget, for example, much is made of a 6% increase for the Department of Health, which certainly would be promising if it were not for inflation and the fact that we are all living longer, adding to the costs of the health service generally. That means that this is not really an increase in real terms. If anything, it is a repeat of similar baseline austerity budgets. Indeed, as I pointed out in the Health Committee, these projections are predicated on a cut of at least £50 million to health trusts across this region: £50 million from our health service at a time when people are out every Thursday clapping for the NHS. It would be unbelievable if it were not so true to form. <BR /> <BR />It runs even deeper. It means the Bengoa report, which, behind the doublespeak, is predicated on efficiency savings.”
“This had a very real impact during the crisis, with too few ventilators and intensive care beds, too little personal protective equipment and, with it, no capacity to properly test. Austerity was never an economic necessity, as even right-wing economists will now admit. It was always a political choice and, too often, the big parties in this Chamber went along with that political choice. Because of that, we entered this health crisis with an underfunded NHS and healthcare provision, which undoubtedly impacted negatively on the force of the crisis. <BR /> <BR />One might hope that there was a lesson here, but, when we look at the projected costs and how they play out in the new Budget to be proposed later today, it is clear that nothing has been learned.”
“<BR /> <BR />In reference to earlier comments about the need for us to be thankful to the British Government, public funding is not the British Government's money; it belongs to the taxpayer. It is a result of the labour of the workers who create the wealth in our society. We need much more public funding, and we need wealth to be redistributed generally. <BR /> <BR />This emergency demands emergency action, but neither this Vote on Account nor the Budget provides that. There is no ambition for a different kind of economic agenda. In my role as one of very few opposition MLAs, I will do my best to scrutinise and to continue to hold to account those who bring this legislation forward. <BR /> <BR />Take the health service. The big parties in the Executive have spent years implementing Tory cuts to our NHS.”
“We have to ask why, as we sit on the brink of another economic crisis, the cornerstone of this Executive's economic policy is not to raise taxes for the rich and fight for an urgent, radical redistribution of wealth across our society, thus ensuring that those who cannot afford to pay are not forced deeper and deeper into poverty. The DUP and Sinn Féin unashamedly begged for tax powers to give the wealthy a break. Why are those in charge here not willing to stick their neck out to give working people a break? Why are the Executive not even considering the use of powers that they have already to lift the caps on rates for the wealthy and high earners, drawing in more money to pay for parts of this crisis, at least?”
“When the likes of Richard Branson needs a bailout, that magic money tree is a whole island. The money has been there all along, and one way that we can get it is through taxation. <BR /> <BR />It is worth remembering that the two biggest parties in the last Stormont Executive spent the last 10 years begging Westminster for tax powers to give big business a break. For almost a decade, it was a major cornerstone in the economic policy of Sinn Féin and the DUP to ensure that the wealthy paid less in tax contributions. It epitomised the neoliberal economics that helped to bring the current ruin upon us.”
“There can be no return to our nurses standing in the freezing cold for months to get the pay that they deserve. There must be an end to the systemic underfunding of the health service to the point at which it is perpetually on the brink and unprepared for whatever crisis is round the corner. There must be an end to bottom-level welfare and the precarious employment contracts that leave too many on the cusp of poverty. <BR /> <BR />That was the position of my party and socialists before this crisis, but the response in this Chamber and in political chambers around the world has always been that the money is not there. If this crisis has exposed one myth, it is that the magic money tree exists. Suddenly, when big businesses need bailed out, there is a forest of magic money trees.”
“Who pays for this crisis will soon be a key dividing line in politics. The Tories and others are already pushing the burden of payment on to ordinary people. The current crisis, broadly speaking, has two ends: the first can be categorised as the immediate health crisis; the second is the deep economic crisis that demands a whole new economic outlook, one that prioritises the interests of working people over those of rich corporations and the wealthy. The period ahead is full of massive uncertainty, but one thing is clear: we cannot return to normal, economically or politically. <BR /> <BR />The current Vote on Account is a crucial starting point for considering the Assembly's financial position, as is the upcoming Budget. The sentiment that we cannot return to normal has been reiterated around the world.”
“Given that they are ongoing concerns, what assurances will the Minister give us that, as her Department moves towards recommencing minor capital works, the workers who carry out that work will be protected and will have appropriate equipment?”
“The Minister mentioned the importance of listening. I agree with her about that, and I urge her Department, her as a Minister and other Ministers to listen to the concerns of residents in the Casement Park area, especially about overdevelopment. <BR /> <BR />I have raised previously with the Minister how Belfast Roads Service workers, despite raising it several times with the Department, do not have appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE). I urge the Minister to intervene — it is an ongoing problem — to ensure that those workers who are working on roads, gullies and other works have protective equipment.”
“Does he know how many, if any, companies have been subject to tough action as a result of not following health and safety measures?”
“Thank you for giving way. For his attention, the 'Belfast Telegraph' on 31 March stated:”
“I would hazard a guess that that is a lot higher today. We saw the tragic case of the death of a Moy Park worker, and there are still concerns about the health and safety of workers and how they will be protected. I do not think that the Executive have been clear or robust enough with a plan that shows how workers will be protected. The Health and Safety Executive recently received at least 480 complaints, but there are only 28 staff who can inspect sites. <BR /> <BR />I think that I have asked this question three times from the Floor of the Assembly: will the junior Minister tell us what measures the Executive will take to ensure that workers are protected, especially as new measures to lift the lockdown are put in place?”
“<BR /> <BR />Turning to the measures that are before us today, while I do not oppose them, provided that safety is ensured for workers — in particular, those who work in cemeteries, which are important places for people to grieve — I urge caution in lifting too many of the lockdown restrictions so soon. The key issue at the heart of this all is what happens when large numbers of workers go back to work. When restrictions were lifted in South Korea, Germany, Italy and other countries, we witnessed new clusters and cases, and that is the risk before us. We cannot rush to lift lockdown measures. That would risk all the sacrifices that people have made and the possibility of more deaths. <BR /> <BR />I note that, in March, the Health and Safety Executive stated that it had seen an almost 2,000% increase in complaints.”
“I just want to make a few brief points. The Executive are often presented as an image of unity. I am not sure whether, today, we saw a glimpse of some of the tensions and divisions that normally exist. Maybe the junior Minister can enlighten us on whether that is the case when he speaks again today. <BR /> <BR />Political questions were referred to. Throughout the crisis, part of the problem has been that we followed London for too long and too often. The problem with that approach was that London preached and practised the dangerous and ludicrous policy of herd immunity, suspended contact tracing, had a lack of testing and was slow to acquire PPE, to name but a few of the issues.”
“The Minister will know that workers are central to the economy, so can he comment on the lack of action to support workers and say what measures are in place to ensure that employers support workers at this time?”
“I want the Minister to expand on the measures in place and those needed to protect and support workers at this time, particularly those who have not been furloughed and have to visit food banks. I have mentioned the pattern across the world where the ratio of businesses to workers being helped is 4:1, and it seems to be the case here, with the Minister announcing £700 million support for businesses through rates and grants but, from his Department, only £4 million for sub teachers. I note that there is no rate relief for workers. Support for the business community is clearly necessary at this time, but some feel that the measures with no strings attached do not address the situation, with some businesses being able to receive government assistance at the same time as laying off staff.”
“What is the Minister's view on this? What measures do the Executive intend to take to protect and support private renters who are being pursued by landlords who are trying to maximise profit at this time?”
“To move to my question, I want to ask the Minister about private renters. Since her Department proposed the Private Tenancies (Coronavirus Modifications) Bill, scores of people have been issued with threatening letters from landlords to pay their rent. That disgraceful situation is happening. As we know, students, in particular, are living with families that are practising social distancing etc.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement and extend my good wishes to her sister. <BR /> <BR />I note the almost 300% rise in people accessing universal credit. People are spending more on electricity, gas and other utilities due to the fact that they are staying at home. That really brings into focus the fact that the welfare reform measures that were implemented by the House are not fit for purpose. There has been a lot of talk about a "new normal" at the end of the crisis: if that is the case, we cannot return to a situation where people who are in work or out of work are forced to go to food banks.”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for her comments, especially where she said that she supports workers walking out if they feel that they are unsafe or are working in unsafe conditions. Guidelines have been referred to already, but there are guidelines and then there is enforcement. They are two different things. I am concerned that step 1 will force more and more workers back into work without there being robust mechanisms in place to protect them. <BR /> <BR />I asked the Health Minister this question a few weeks ago but got neither a sufficient nor a direct answer. I will therefore ask the Ministers here today. More people are likely to go back into work very soon, so is now the time to increase the number of people employed to inspect workplaces, in order to ensure that the health and safety measures are not being breached?”
“In the light of that, do the Ministers think that more could have been done to protect essential workers? Was it a mistake to allow non-essential businesses such as Bombardier to reopen?”
“If workers are forced back to work under unsafe conditions, my advice to them is to follow the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 2000 and:”
“I welcome the fact that, unlike in England, the restrictions here have not been lifted, but, then again, just doing better than Boris Johnson is nothing to brag about. <BR /> <BR />A worker in a food production plant died in recent days, just weeks after workers at the company were forced to walk out en masse over health and safety concerns. Their colleagues, union reps, migrants' groups, radio broadcasters and more have been highlighting the lack of testing on those sites, never mind breaches of social distancing and PPE use. It is my view that we cannot consider lifting lockdown without first protecting workers in danger today, and there is a strong feeling that the Executive have not done enough to protect workers in that regard.”
“I will continue to scrutinise this Budget. Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“Undoubtedly small businesses need support during this crisis, but just as necessary is a large injection of financial aid for individuals thrust into poverty and unemployment. The economist Michael Roberts has noted this trend right across Europe: state aid for businesses at around four times that for ordinary people. Though it is notable that, compared with other Governments, we have given out much less. <BR /> <BR />On the question of rates, for example, I do not oppose freezing the domestic rate and reducing the regional rate to help struggling small businesses, but in my view, the Executive must go much further, and workers and families should also see their rate payments cut. <BR /> <BR />There is a question around the priorities —.”
“We all know what that is code for. It is the same tale that was spun to us when the voluntary exit scheme saw 20,000 secure, unionised jobs offered up on the chopping block. The result today is that most of those workers have been replaced by agency staff on precarious contracts, unable to join a union; encroaching privatisation; and a massive bill from recruitment agencies. <BR /> <BR />What was done to the Civil Service in the name of effectiveness under the previous Executive was a neo-liberal's dream and a worker's nightmare. Again, either lessons have not been learned or the new Executive are as neo-liberal as the previous one. <BR /> <BR />Two measures relating to COVID-19 are mentioned in the Budget. For me, the standout figure was £99 million for businesses.”
“This suggestion of further austerity will only make the situation worse. The Committee Chair raised concerns about Translink's future. <BR /> <BR />I move on to the Department for Agriculture. There is no attempt to intervene to create a food production sector that shirks competition in favour of health and sustainability for those of us who eat the food and those who produce it. This will be vital in the challenges around the global climate crisis. <BR /> <BR />We see a reflection of previous austerity Budgets in the section on the Department of Finance, where it talks about:”
“There is £75 million for the new A5, but where is the budget for rectifying the additional air pollution that that will cause — air pollution that kills one in 24 people in Belfast alone. Nor is there reference to rectifying the air pollution likely to come from the York Street interchange. Nor, and this is stark, is there a massive increase in investment in Translink, which, just months ago, warned that our public transport system will collapse without additional funding. Where is that funding? A break with individual cars will not come without a proper alternative, but this Budget does not provide one. <BR /> <BR />Instead of sustainable funding for Translink, we have seen suggestions from the Finance Minister for further austerity in the request that Translink staff should be furloughed to deal with this crisis.”
“I do not look forward to future sittings of this Assembly when we look back at the ruinous impact of such a strategy, but I fear that that will indeed come to pass. <BR /> <BR />Where is the commitment to double the funding to mental health — a basic demand that mental health workers say will make a massive difference. The increase in depression and anxiety that isolation has brought should have given us the impetus to act on this issue. Once again, mental health has been relegated. <BR /> <BR />I now move on to the other crisis that faces us, climate change. It is often said by environmental activists that this Assembly is addicted to roads. Look at the Department for Infrastructure figures; this Budget will not prove them wrong.”
“Indeed, as I pointed out in the Health Committee, these projections are predicated on at least a £50 million cut to health trusts across the region — £50 million stripped away from our health service during a global pandemic — but that figure was not the headline, unlike the supposed 6% bump. While communities are out clapping for the NHS every Thursday, some elected reps are suggesting £50 million cuts to the health service. It would be unbelievable if it were not so true to form. <BR /> <BR />Sticking with Health, this Budget guarantees a continuation of the logic of the Bengoa report, which is predicated on efficiencies and savings, rather than the massive investment needed in our health service. Clearly, the strong warnings from unions and health workers about such an agenda have fallen on deaf ears.”
“That had a very real impact during the crisis, with too few ventilators and ICU beds, too little PPE and a lack of capacity to properly test. We have been forced to play catch-up while the virus has spread. One might hope that there was a lesson here, but looking through the fine detail of the Budget projections it is clear that nothing has been learned. <BR /> <BR />Much is made of a 6% bump for the health budget, which certainly would be promising if it were not for inflation and the fact that we are all living longer and adding to the cost of running the health service. That means that it is not really a 6% increase at all. It is not a significant increase in real terms. If anything, it is a repeat of similar baseline austerity Budgets with "savings" at their heart.”
“<BR /> <BR />This emergency shows that we need emergency action that goes beyond treating the current pandemic. This Budget, I am afraid, does nothing of the sort, nor does it try to. There is no ambition for a different kind of economic agenda and, in my role as one of the very few opposition MLAs, I will do my best to scrutinise it today, although I share others' sentiments that it has been hard to scrutinise over the past few days. It is bizarre in the extreme to hear Committee Chair after Committee Chair raising concerns, many of which I concur with, when many of them will vote for this Budget Bill regardless. <BR /> <BR />Look at health. The big parties in the Executive have spent years implementing Tory cuts to our NHS.”
“No return to our nurses standing in the freezing cold for months for the pay that they deserve and no more systematic under-funding of our health service until it is perpetually at the brink and under-prepared for whatever crisis is around the corner. No more food production based on bottom prices and agri-food competition, which pumps our food full of antibiotics and gives rise to new and resistant viruses and destroys the environment to the tune of millions of tonnes of carbon. Summed up, it is a fundamental break with an economic system that gives primacy above all else to the market and breeds through competition. The very duo that sees nations around the world struggle for basic orders of PPE, including the Finance Minister apparently.”
“I put on record my condolences and sympathies to Mr Dallat's family and party colleagues. <BR /> <BR />There is no escaping that we are in the throes of a global health pandemic and are veering into a deep recession as we consider the Budget. The period ahead may be filled with massive uncertainty, but one truth rings clear as a bell: we cannot return to the normality that gave rise to this crisis. No return to normal. <BR /> <BR />That sentiment has been felt and expressed around the globe and, unsurprisingly, has been felt most strongly by those at the bottom of society who feel the outworkings of this pandemic most sharply.”
“Can the Minister give a guarantee today that those workers will no longer be asked to carry out non-essential work and will be provided with adequate PPE when they have to do emergency work?”
“The Minister said that she would like to hear about issues concerning PPE and social distancing, and I welcome her statement and her comments to that effect. Workers in the Roads Service in Belfast have been in contact with my office with serious concerns about non-essential work that Roads Service staff in other regions are not being made to do during the crisis. They have raised concerns that they are unable to distance socially from the public while doing that work, putting themselves and, obviously, the public at risk. Worse, the protection that they are given does not prevent the spread of COVID-19. When they do emergency work, they are not being given proper PPE at all. I have written to the Minister's office about those issues, and the workers themselves have raised them, but, seemingly, nothing has been done.”
“A vaccine, as I said earlier, will not be available for the next year or so. <BR /> <BR />I commend the amendments to the House. I will leave my comments there.”
“Obviously, as she will be aware, most medical officials and most organisations, such as the World Health Organization, have stated that the crisis is likely to go beyond 12 weeks.”
“If they are subject to legal challenge by landlords, there is an onus on the House and on Ministers to challenge landlords in the courts, if necessary, and to stand up for and support tenants and people who are in rental accommodation. <BR /> <BR />In closing, the Minister mentioned a number of points about a balance of rights. I challenge that again. We need to stand up for renters at this time, and not enough is being done on that. We have seen measures in place for landlords and nowhere near enough measures in place for renters. We should not be afraid of challenging landlords even if that means in the courts. <BR /> <BR />The Minister also mentioned the 12-week period in line with the guidance in the shielding letters and the announcements made by the NHS.”
“She said that she would support amendment No 13, which, in my view, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, is essential. Generally speaking, it seems to be accepted that we have learned the lessons of the renewable heat incentive (RHI) for democracy, scrutiny and accountability. If that is the case, I implore and encourage Members to support amendment No 13, if for no other reason than that. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned there was reference to and quite a number of comments about a summer break. I take the point, but surely we should not consider a summer break before having legislation that is strong enough and doing whatever we need to do to make sure that it is in place to protect renters and people generally in this situation. <BR /> <BR />Generally speaking, we obviously are in an emergency situation, and emergency measures are needed.”
“No, I will not. <BR /> <BR />I am disappointed that the response from some in the Chamber to my amendments, which sought to strengthen the Bill in the interests of renters, was to attack. I thank those in the Chamber who took seriously the intention of the amendments. To be clear, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, the amendments were drawn up in conjunction with renters and housing activists. They are, in my view and theirs, necessary to protect people during the crisis. It is very telling that it was met with defensiveness, deflection and attack in some quarters. Obviously, Mr O'Dowd mentioned politics and the right to be political, but there is a difference between politics and sheer political point scoring. <BR /> <BR />Rachel Woods mentioned concerns about renters, students and the need for security for tenants.”
“I suggest that he speaks to the Bill Office, who said that the amendments were legislatively competent, workable and proportionate.”
“Mr Durkan made a number of comments and he obviously defended the right to propose amendments. Perish the thought of Members trying to make amendments in a political Chamber. He defended the right to do so, and I thank him for that. Mr Butler raised concerns about all the amendments but indicated that he supported amendment No 13. He made some other points, obviously, as well. Kellie Armstrong, similarly, said that she could not accept most of the amendments. She raised concerns about the financial situation of some landlords and said that she could not support the amendments apart from amendment No 13. She also suggested the necessity for or, certainly, the consideration of a breakaway clause for renters at some point in the future. Mr O'Dowd said quite a lot: "unworkable", "not proportionate" and "not legislatively competent".”
“I will do my best to sum up and reply as much as I can, but there is obviously a lot in that. Thanks for Members' comments and contributions. <BR /> <BR />Paula Bradley raised concerns, generally speaking, about the need to have more scrutiny. She said that legislation had to be proportional. Generally speaking, I respond to that by saying that there is not enough legislation in place across the board that supports renters. If we are to be proportional, we need a lot more legislation in place to support renters. She said that she would not support any of the amendments, if I am correct in summing her position up. Sinéad Ennis from Sinn Féin said that the amendments were an attempt to cynically delay the Bill. I put it to her that the real question is why she and her party do not support amendments that strengthen the rights of tenants.”
“Throughout this crisis, my party has always called for maximum democracy and scrutiny. <BR /> <BR />If new guidelines are to be implemented in legislation, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, surely Members should have the opportunity to debate, discuss and, if necessary, amend them. The measures will affect a lot of my constituents and the constituents of many others in the House, so surely we should settle for nothing less than maximum scrutiny at this time. <BR /> <BR />I will end my comments there and commend amendment Nos 1 to 13 to the House. For your reference, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I will not be moving amendment No 14.”
“The final amendment, amendment No 13, aims to inject greater democracy into the legislative process. If accepted, it will mean that new legislation relating to exceptions to the extended notice period would have to be voted on in the House. The Bill currently does not stipulate that. <BR /> <BR />It is imperative that MLAs be allowed to scrutinise properly and improve the measures in the Bill by way of a positive vote in the Chamber, in order to ensure that the necessary oversight and accountability is possible. At a time when states have been imbued with far-reaching powers, we must ensure that democracy is not encroached on at any stage in the Assembly, especially when COVID-19 measures are being implemented. Indeed, we should strive to guarantee as much oversight and accountability as is possible during these unprecedented times.”
“That is a simple enough measure. It would allow as many renters as possible to avail themselves of the new protections and allow us to implement them as early as possible. Unless there are robust guidelines in place that cover renters for the period just before the legislation is finally implemented, renters are left exposed. Legally speaking, their landlord could begin eviction proceedings, which would be to the detriment of vulnerable renters, students and people in low-paid jobs. For that reason, amendment No 2 seeks to extend the notice period retrospectively back to the date on which the Bill was published. Amendment Nos 8 to 12 allow for that amendment to apply thematically throughout the legislation.”
“<BR /> <BR />The next aim of my amendments is to allow renters who receive an eviction notice during the time between this Bill's introduction and when it is given Royal Assent to avail themselves of the extended notice period.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Irish Government, the British Government and other Governments around the world, along with Chief Medical Officers and the World Health Organization, estimate that COVID-19 and the measures necessary to prevent its spread will probably be with us into 2021. We must ensure not only that we are adhering to that advice, but that we have protections for renters for as long as those COVID-19 measures are in place. That is why amendment No 1 seeks to extend the eviction notice period to one year. Amendment Nos 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 allow for that change to apply thematically throughout the legislation. This Bill, without that amendment of the applicable period, would allow landlords the possibility to begin evictions in July, or shortly after.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is highly unlikely that we will have fully lifted the social-distancing protocols, the advice to stay at home or the advice that all non-essential staff should stay at home within the next 12 weeks. Indeed, it would be profoundly dangerous, based on the World Health Organization's advice, to do so. We have heard that a vaccine for COVID-19 may not be available until next year, and we know that it is very likely that we will have a second wave of this virus. Therefore, while the three-month extension in the Bill is certainly welcome, it unfortunately does not go far enough.”