Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“For example, there is no technical reason why the North could not invest in the electric grid to facilitate a rapid wholesale shift to electric heat. There is no technical reason why a programme of public works to increase energy efficiency in homes and public buildings could not be implemented quickly. <BR /> <BR />Clauses 4 and 5 give substantial power to the Department to change the emissions targets' years and baseline. I share people's concerns about that. DAERA should not be given the power to dilute what are already very weak targets. We see no valid reason why the Department should be allowed to revise targets down in the future. Provision should be made only to allow targets to be revised upwards and become more ambitious. <BR /> <BR />Carbon budgets are a key indicator of the extent to which we are meeting targets.”
“Scotland, Wales and the Republic of Ireland have not only had climate legislation in place for a number of years, but recently amended that legislation to show more ambition in reflecting the urgency of the climate crisis and the need to do more. <BR /> <BR />The net zero by 2045 target is rooted in the overwhelming scientific evidence that we are living in a climate and ecological emergency and that ambitious action is needed to limit global temperature increases. It is unlikely that a weak, caveated target of at least 82% will encourage the adoption of the technologies, policies and behaviours that are necessary to ensure that there is a just transition to a climate-proofed society. The "at least" terminology sets the bar incredibly low. A more ambitious target is possible.”
“The specific targets included in the Bill are inadequate. The Bill does not include a science-based net zero target. A net zero target has significant political power. It would establish a clear, unambiguous intent to transition to a climate-resilient society. We cannot be the only part of these islands without a net zero target because of inaction. <BR /> <BR />Net zero by 2045 is achievable, despite the Minister's comments; with more ambitious measures, it is possible earlier than 2045. The Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research has demonstrated that we could have a net zero carbon energy system by 2042 if the will was there.”
“Scientists are hopeful that, if we can cut global emissions in half by 2030 and reach net zero by the middle of the century, we can halt and possibly reverse the rise in temperatures. Right now, the North's per capita emissions are higher than the UK average, accounting for 4% of the UK's total emissions. In addition, the North's emissions are falling significantly lower than the UK average, achieving just an 18% reduction compared with the UK's 44%. If we are to do our fair share in tackling climate change, there is simply no room in the carbon budget for new fossil fuel infrastructure or exploitation, and we must make a rapid transition to a zero-carbon society as soon as possible. <BR /> <BR />The Bill will not deliver the climate action that we need to address this global emergency.”
“<BR /> <BR />We also have a growing youth climate movement that is calling on the Stormont Executive to take urgent, radical climate action, because the decisions that we make here today will affect the lives of those young people and of future generations. I, alongside some other Members from across the House, stood with them last Friday as they restarted their campaign. <BR /> <BR />The science is clear: the latest IPCC report is "a code red for humanity". The effects of climate breakdown are already being felt. Just this year around the world and locally, we have had floods, droughts, wildfires and storms on a scale that we have never seen before, and they will only get more frequent and more extreme.”
“They have managed to stop the drill in Woodburn forest and to stop incinerators being built outside Derry, instead pushing for zero-waste solutions. They have halted fracking in Fermanagh and have campaigned to keep railway lines open, knowing that is the future for travel. They are fighting against Goliath-like gold-mining companies in the Sperrins with no help from DFE in that endeavour. They are fighting to save our last remaining ancient woodland, of which we have only 0·04%, and they are fighting for rights for nature in law, to name some examples. Also, they are taking part in highlighting the petroleum licence in and around Lough Neagh, petroleum licence application PLA1/16, and the landfill site at Mullaghglass, which forces residents in west Belfast and Lisburn to endure terrible odours daily.”
“There are serious deficiencies both in how arrangements for environmental governance have been designed and how environmental regulation has been delivered, with penalties for breaking regulations merely a slap on the wrist compared with similar offences elsewhere. <BR /> <BR />As Members have said, we are without an independent EPA, which would have enhanced the protections of our natural resources and biodiversity. Instead, we have had to rely on ordinary people and communities who have acted as independent environmental protection agents in their own right in the battle to save our planet. The Executive should be indebted to those environmental campaigners, without whom our environment here would be in a much poorer state.”
“It has been over 10 years since the UK Climate Change Act was introduced, yet the North of Ireland is the only jurisdiction in these islands not to have introduced its own climate change law. We can no longer afford not to act. We are in a climate and ecological emergency, yet this seriously deficient Climate Change (No. 2) Bill and the inaction of the Stormont Executive on many environmental fronts is typical of how successive Executives have treated our environment here. The Stormont Executive have done too little too late, colluding with corporations and continuing the exploitation of workers and the planet. We have had decades of a systemic failure to take environmental protection seriously.”
“As usual, we will hear cries that it is unaffordable, but let us not forget that over £100 million has gone to Capita to carry out its detested personal independence payment (PIP) assessment, and hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent on agency staff whilst health workers are left without proper pay. The Executive need to make it their priority to ensure that those who rely on minimal state benefits to get by are not hit hard by a cut in universal credit. It is time for action.”
“The Executive have responsibilities on many fronts, the chief of which is their insistence on signing up to implement welfare reform. At the very least, they need to ensure that people are not financially penalised as a result of a system that they endorsed. <BR /> <BR />For all the important talk about an anti-poverty strategy, if the Executive cannot intervene to stop the reduction, they will fail to stop many thousands descending further into poverty. If the Tories continue with the cut to universal credit, the Executive must intervene to ensure that people here are not financially worse off.”
“The Tories are willing to protect the wealthy, and the Executive dutifully follow suit. Class war is alive and well in today's society, and it affects everyone on the bottom rung of the ladder. People from all backgrounds are being driven into further economic hardship by these policies. <BR /> <BR />The main focus has to be on forcing the Tories to retreat and backtrack from imposing this huge cut on people's ability to live. A retreat can be forced by mounting huge pressure on them. Hopefully, Marcus Rashford's intervention will help in that regard. In the instance that the Tories do not budge, however, and plough ahead with the shocking reduction, the Executive need to step up to the plate to ensure that people are not thrown under the bus.”
“The truth is that the universal credit uplift was needed so that people on universal credit — a large proportion of whom are in work, let us not forget — could afford the basic necessities to get by in the middle of a global pandemic. COVID is still with us and is circulating like wildfire in our communities. The cost of living has not reduced but has dramatically shot up. <BR /> <BR />The Tory Government's disgraceful response to rocketing energy prices and to inflation shooting up is to pull the carpet of support from under the people who need it. At the same time, they have not lifted a finger to tackle the obscene wealth increase during the pandemic. The UK now has a record number of billionaires. Corporate profits have continued to surge during COVID, yet working-class people feel the brunt of economic hardship.”
“The decision by the Tories to reduce universal credit by £1,000 a year will have a devastating impact on people in my constituency of West Belfast and right across the North. Millions of people will be impacted by the cut, and, in the North, we know that 105,000 households will lose £20 a week with the uplift being abolished. Given that we have larger families here compared with other places in the UK, some 300,000 people, according to the Government's own figures, will be impacted by the cut. Why, therefore, are the Executive putting up such a meek front on the question? The cut will push people further into poverty, hardship and difficulty. The Executive should be screaming about that and should mount a wall of resistance against the Tories' plans to implement this drastic cut, which is the worst in decades.”
“For that reason as well, my party will oppose the Bill.”
“Mr O'Toole mentioned Arkansas in his contribution. In Alabama, the law states that carrying out an abortion at any stage of a pregnancy is punishable by 10 to 99 years in jail for doctors who assist in or perform an abortion. My understanding of this Bill is that, if someone here moved to Alabama or someone from Alabama moved here and they carried out an abortion or helped someone to do so, they could serve 10 to 99 years in jail and, therefore, would not be eligible for the positions that are mentioned in the Bill and could not take them up. In Andorra, for example — I do not claim to be an expert on Andorran politics — performing an abortion results in a six-year prison sentence. Again, that applies not just to the prisoners and ex-paramilitaries to whom Mr Allister referred but to people who have carried out healthcare.”
“There is some ambiguity or a lack of clarity around who the serious criminal conviction title refers to. We have heard the Bill sponsor mention individuals in relation to serious criminal convictions and the position of people who received a sentence of five years or more. However, in clause 5(2)(a), the Bill also states that the meaning of "serious criminal conviction" applies whether the person:”
“Any legislative system that blocks former paramilitaries from doing so while doing nothing or not enough about state actors who partook in or, indeed, gave the go-ahead for some of the most awful crimes during the recent Troubles, including the murder of innocent people, is a legislative system that is based on rank hypocrisy. <BR /> <BR />I challenge the presumption in the Bill that the outworkings of the criminal justice system are infallible, especially historically. To suggest a blanket ban on criminal convictions of a certain degree is steeped in problems, not least the obvious problems that arise when we think about some of the huge miscarriages of justice against people in our society — too many to mention — that took place here not so long ago.”
“We need only look at recent moves from the highest office of the Tory Party to absolve and protect state forces who killed innocent people to see that there has existed a situation of one law for state forces, and one law for everyone else. The Bill would exacerbate that problem, because it would base itself on a belief or view about a criminal justice system that has not done enough to challenge the role of state violence or state repression. <BR /> <BR />I resolutely oppose violence and its many political manifestations here in recent decades. Therefore, I disagree on much with many people in political life here, including many ex-prisoners from "different" or "both" sides of the conflict, but, at the same time, I defend people's right to participate in political office.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, this is not just about former political prisoners, as such discrimination would presumably, on reading the Bill, impact on all former prisoners who have been found guilty of serious offences. However, the Bill sponsor and others who support the legislation have specifically raised the issue of former paramilitaries taking up positions, so I will briefly speak to that. <BR /> <BR />In my opinion, anyone who is relying on the outworkings of the criminal justice system that existed here during and after the Troubles to dictate who can and cannot enter political office today is relying on a system built on hypocrisy and disproportionality.”
“My party and I will not support the Bill today. In our view, it represents a move to discriminate against former prisoners in a way that is mired in contradictions and, dare I say, hypocrisy. Blocking or restricting those who have come through prison from entering public office is, by definition, a form of discrimination against those people, and I have serious concerns about the human rights and equality implications of doing so. We can defend the right of ex-prisoners to take specific jobs or hold office while also being absolutely opposed to actions that constitute serious crime or, indeed, that led to prison sentences. There is no contradiction in holding such a position.”
“That is not directly connected to the Bill, but it is something that should be factored into the conversation going forward. I am happy to support the Bill, but those other points have to be raised. If there is any way to submit amendments to that effect, we will do our best to do that.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is the stark statistic that the rate of autism in school-age children in the 10% most deprived areas is 30% higher than in average areas. That is concerning, not because there is anything obviously wrong with people who have autism but because people in deprived communities already face massive barriers and there are greater barriers generally for people with autism in society. Those barriers are higher in those areas as well. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I echo the point that was made by Nicola Brogan and Pat Sheehan about restraint and seclusion measures being used in schools and other educational settings, especially on young people with autism or any other learning disability or condition. That should not be happening. I imagine that it is very traumatic for children.”
“To be blunt, you can have the best training in the world, but there will not be enough people to implement best practice unless we have staff doing those jobs. <BR /> <BR />We have a situation with the diagnosis of autism. We have one of the highest rates in the world, but so many people are still forced to wait an excessive amount of time to receive their assessment and their confirmation of autism. Some never receive a diagnosis at all, and that needs to be factored into the debate as well. Whilst the Bill has no significant financial implications, if we are truly to support people with autism and let them be themselves, as somebody said earlier, we need increased investment, especially in support services for people with autism.”
“I will speak briefly to support the Bill and to raise some connected issues that are very relevant to autism support, even if they are not necessarily detailed in the Bill. I raised some of it in Committee last week, but it is relevant to today's discussion. <BR /> <BR />The Bill mentions amending and strengthening autism strategies. That is important and is welcome, especially training for staff and so forth, but there is a gap. While staff should, obviously, be provided with all the necessary training and support, 14% of people with autism are not receiving the appropriate SEN assistance despite needing it. In my view, any strategy has to take that into account, and any strategy should also increase the number of staff assessing people who are in need of SEN support and increase the number of people providing that support.”
“If supporting health workers is a priority for the Executive, they must ensure not only that health workers are paid a proper wage but that they are not forced to pay to park outside their workplace.”
“It is shocking that, as things stand, you or your loved ones may be forced to go to A&E services and may also be hit with a charge of £12 or more. Not only are those charges unfair and unjust, but they could be counterproductive, as they may discourage people from seeking medical advice and assistance at a time when they are told to do so. <BR /> <BR />Workers should not be forced to pay for the planning disasters around our city. The lack of free and timely public transport and so on is a political failure. We always hear — we have heard it in the last number of days — that we cannot afford it and that the costs are too high. The trusts spend over £100 million every year on agency staff, so the money is clearly there.”
“We are talking about people who work in ICU wards, treat cancer patients or are maternity nurses; the list goes on and on. Historically, we had the disgraceful decision that allowed private companies to charge millions to health workers to park at their workplace. Now, the Department and trusts are following in that vein. <BR /> <BR />Before the exemption for parking charges came into place, people at hospitals were forced to pay, including, obviously, health workers. The new proposal from the Minister and the Department will see those in health and well-being centres forced to pay to park outside. What message does that send to our OTs, mental health workers and those who work in those vital facilities?”
“The reality for health workers is universal credit being cut, National Insurance contributions on the rise, and, now, being charged to park outside their place of work.”
“I pay tribute to Anto Finnegan, a community and sport stalwart and former Antrim captain who sadly passed away at the weekend. As a Member who lives in west Belfast, my thoughts are with his family and former teammates. <BR /> <BR />I will speak about the disgraceful decision to reintroduce car parking charges for our health workers. It is causing fury amongst all our health workers, who sacrificed so much for everyone during the pandemic. After COVID, we were, supposedly, to learn lessons, but, seemingly, the Minister and the Executive did not get the memo. Not satisfied with ploughing ahead with a below-inflation pay offer that falls way short of what health workers deserve and have demanded, they have lumped another charge on to health workers at a time when they, like all working-class people, are feeling the financial squeeze.”
“I will continue to join activists such as those who gathered outside these walls yesterday and whose radical but necessary demands put world leaders in stuffy COP26 boardrooms to shame.”
“That means implementing a just transition away from the kind of production, polluting and environmental wrecking that has become the norm here for too long, while committing to proper investment and reskilling for those who need it. Crucially, that must be done in tandem with communities, workers and trade unions in a way that empowers them to deliver a new green economy that works for ordinary people, not just the wealthiest. That will not be delivered by the Tories or, frankly, the parties here, especially those responsible for dredging Lough Neagh, abandoning Mobuoy, green-lighting destructive mining in the Sperrins or the failure to deliver sustainable public transport, to name a few of the issues.”
“The amendment from the Tories to allow DAERA and the relevant Departments across the water to interfere with the process of holding Governments to account was a shameless attempt to shirk responsibility and maintain business as usual during the crisis. <BR /> <BR />We support all the amendments that strengthen the hand of the Office for Environmental Protection, declare a climate emergency and strengthen provisions to deal with the crisis and insert the necessary targets to prevent the crisis from worsening. Ultimately, however, the Bill will not be enough. We need local legislation that takes on the worst polluters, commits to the most radical targets and protects those who are most threatened by the climate crisis, as well as those whose livelihoods may be impacted by the move towards environmental progress.”
“The Tories call the Bill "world-leading", but they did not write a single target into it, nor any duty on Ministers to ensure that the decarbonisation of these islands is achieved. While, as Members have said, it fills a gap left by Brexit in terms of regulations, it is a missed opportunity to deliver the environmental targets that are needed, and it is only somewhat improved by amendments that the Tories are unlikely to be happy about. <BR /> <BR />One of the amendments before us today is around the guidance DAERA can give to the Office for Environmental Protection. It could not be clearer, given what I and others have said today, that Stormont needs a truly independent body with proper teeth to hold it to account on environmental issues.”
“You will probably be aware, Deputy Speaker, that hundreds of environmental activists from across the North descended here yesterday to raise awareness of the need for climate action. Among them were very young people, including an 11-year-old who spoke about the need to protect her future and that of other young people. That aim should be foremost in our minds when writing or passing any kind of environmental legislation. Unfortunately, the action we have seen from Westminster and locally falls far short in that regard. At a time when we need ambitious action and a crackdown on the biggest polluters, the actions of Governments in these islands can be described only as reckless.”
“Thank you, Minister. Your preference may be to have it in-house, but you extended Capita's contract for two years despite it having a litany of complaints against it and despite it having received a bucketload of public money. Minister, do you think that it is right that Capita has been paid £100 million to carry out a service that is well below what is required for people who are disabled and vulnerable? Capita has had hundreds of complaints against it. Was that money well spent?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I listened to her carefully, but I have to point out an inconsistency. There is a pick-and-mix approach. Her party is obviously content with heavily regulating women's healthcare and has no issue with that. However, when it comes to this issue, the party seems —”
“Do you oppose legislation on road safety, on health and safety and on medical interventions in hospital unless there is full consent, whatever that is? There are important arguments that need to be challenged. Those myths need to be dispelled, and we need the Bill to proceed as quickly as possible. I am therefore happy to support it going forward today.”
“<BR /> <BR />If people have strong reasons for opting out, they can do so. There are ethical reasons — I do not fully understand them, to be honest — for opposing organ donation, and there is support for people to opt out. It is important that we provide that. In some cases, there is reason to oppose the state taking strong measures and trying to grab power for its own interests to harass and intimidate, to persecute people, to spy on citizens and so on and so forth. In those cases, there should be opposition to the state getting more powers, but that is not what this is about. As people said, this Bill is about giving support and hope to individuals and taking a public health policy measure to support people who need organ donation. <BR /> <BR />For those reasons, I do not buy the so-called libertarian argument. Where does it stop?”
“Although a handful of people have claimed to be acting on medical or scientific advice in disputing the real dangers of COVID, there is, for the most part, an overwhelming consensus — amounting to at least 90% — that Governments need to take action on COVID because it is a threat to public health. This is a separate issue, but a similar point guides it. I understand that there is pretty much unanimity across the medical field in relation to organ donation legislation being not only required but essential to increasing the possibility of donation for so many people. As I understand it, the clinical lead for organ donation is in support of soft opt-out being in legislation. Unfortunately, too many people have that conversation at a late stage, when loved ones are dying or have passed away.”
“To put it mildly, this House often moves at a snail's pace, and it is campaigns out on the streets and in communities that force issues on to the agenda. In that vein, I pay tribute to those campaigners, including and especially wee Dáithí, Seph and Máirtín. What they have done goes to show how change comes about. It is those campaigns and that activism that cause those conversations to happen in workplaces, amongst families and friends and so on, bringing about change. <BR /> <BR />In the past year, there has been a lot of discussion about COVID and about medical evidence guiding the decisions that are taken or not taken by Ministers.”
“That, in and of itself, is a strong and powerful thing. It is an incredible act of solidarity that is, it is worth emphasising, reason enough to support the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Some years ago, I, as did Carál Ní Chuilín, raised in passing the issue of organ donation with family members. I told them that I would gladly wish that my organs be donated. I am sure that others have had that conversation casually in off-the-cuff chats with loved ones. To be honest, however, it was not until I saw the campaign led by Dáithí, Máirtín and Seph that I, along with many thousands of other people, made the decision. I am happy to say is deontóir anois mé. <BR /> <BR />That campaign led to me and many other people signing up to be an organ donor. That really goes to show how change is made in society.”
“I thought that there were still more Members to speak before me. I am happy to speak in favour of the Bill. Simple, easy-to-follow legislation on organ donation is long overdue. Too often, when it comes to issues that may be difficult to talk about, people do not know how to approach or raise them. In that context, where there is no reason or need for exemptions, the state should make the assumption that it is right and proper to proceed with organ donation. <BR /> <BR />In the past year and a half, people have taken extraordinary measures for one another and their public health. In my view and that of others, this legislation is in a similar vein. It indicates quite strongly that our family members, when faced with a tragedy and an untimely death, can play an important role in giving hope and life to others.”
“Where is the plan from Ministers in the Executive to put a mountain of pressure on the Tories to implement a COVID wealth tax? I have listened carefully throughout the past year, but I have not heard it. It is ironic to hear the DUP, in particular, talk about poverty and to almost talk about inequality when its whole economic approach has always been to pull the carpet of support from under vulnerable or working people. Where is the new party leader talking about poverty eradication? I have listened, but I have not heard it. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to support the motion, but it would be remiss of me not to call out the obvious contradictions today.”
“<BR /> <BR />If that were not bad enough, it gets more sickening and obscene: at a time when the Tories and the Executive are implementing pay cuts and freezes, and, as Members referred to, when there is the implementation of National Insurance increases and universal credit cuts, the wealthy are having a picnic and popping champagne. The super-wealthy have increased their lot during COVID in such an outlandish way. Household wealth in Britain, for example, has surged by £900 billion during COVID. That is sickening stuff. There are at least an extra 24 billionaires in the UK compared with before COVID. Where is the action from Executive Ministers to even raise the flag about that issue? Where is the plan to change the debate?”
“Thank you. <BR /> <BR />That is a good question. We are definitely not investing enough in our staff. That is certain. However, I get nervous when I hear that question being posed. I am not saying that the Member is suggesting this, but it could lead to the closure of services when we need to protect them. On one level, we hear, "Defend the NHS", which I am for, but we also hear, "Reform". When I hear "Reform", I get nervous because it means a reduction in services. The Member may not be arguing that, but that is how I interpret it in most cases.”
“To be clear, there is no "fair economic recovery", to which the motion refers, if those who carried us through the pandemic are treated in such a disgraceful and disdainful way. It may not come next week or even next year, but I think that there will be an uproar of anger against the continuation of neoliberal, unimaginative policies that do not provide people with the ability to afford to live a dignified and decent life.”
“All of us clapped health workers, but the Executive will not pay them what they are owed or are worth. The offer should be withdrawn. Money was not a problem before and was found. Money should be found for health workers for all the work that they have done in the past year and a half.”
“As people said, electricity and gas prices are shooting up astronomically, yet health workers are being offered only 3%. That is in line with Tory policy in that it does not keep up with inflation and falls way below either the 12·5% or 15% rise or the £2,000 or £3,000 direct payment that healthcare workers and their unions are calling for.”
“When they could not see their families, where would the people who needed a care package during the pandemic be if it was not for the brave and often underpaid care workers going into homes and donning PPE? That is without mentioning care home workers or the role of public-sector workers in processing benefits and doing many things during the pandemic or, obviously, NHS workers in keeping people alive in ICU and consoling the loved ones of those who died from COVID. The list goes on. <BR /> <BR />This is where we get to the problems with implementation and action. Unless there is a dramatic change of direction, it seems that the Executive are pressing ahead with pay cuts for health workers and public-sector workers in our communities.”
“Although I will speak in favour of the motion, there are some glaring contradictions in what the Member and her party propose and what their Executive colleagues are pursuing, but I will come to those later. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that, if it were not for the actions of workers, our society would truly have collapsed during the COVID pandemic. There is often sneering or dismissal when you talk about the role of working-class people, but, if you think about it for a second, this point has to be underlined and emphasised: where would vulnerable people be if it were not for the delivery drivers for supermarkets who dropped off food when people could not leave their houses?”