Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“Unfortunately, answers to that question could not be given at Committee level, nor when I spoke to the Department, nor when it was raised in the Assembly at a previous stage of the Budget Bill. For me, that is not good enough, and I suspect that it will not be good enough for those environmental activists who watch the actions of the Assembly very closely. <BR /> <BR />To sum up, as one member of this very small opposition in the Chamber, I cannot support this kind of roughshod practice, and I see it very much as my role to challenge it.”
“It was very easy for the Assembly to bring forward a different Budget Bill with ample time for scrutiny. Indeed, I outlined in detail how that could have been done during the previous debate on the Budget Bill. Time could have been made, but time was not made by the Assembly and the Executive. <BR /> <BR />I will return to my comments. We were told that the financial changes in the Budget Bill are just totting up figures, just run-off from Departments and just the usual movements of unspent or unnecessary funding. If that were the case, it should be very easy to explain, for example, where the massive £24 million reduction in DAERA came from and who thought that it was pertinent not to use whatever financial ability we had to tackle the climate crisis in the Department that is responsible for the environment.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have said this before but I will say it again because it is important to reiterate it today: a key test for this new Executive will be whether or not they overcome the negative perception that Stormont is a gravy train where politicians turn up and sign off on legislation, schemes, public statements and more that have been prepared by officials or unelected advisers, with little oversight or transparency. The passing of this Budget Bill with so little scrutiny is a failure of that test as far as I am concerned.”
“I will make my comments brief because I have already made clear my views on the lack of scrutiny and accountability involved in approving past financial decisions in the Budget Bill. It is somewhat coincidental that the Bill will likely be passed in the same week that the RHI report will be published, given how fundamental issues such as a lack of accountability, scrutiny and transparency were in the RHI scandal. Indeed, the last Assembly was plagued by these issues long before the RHI crisis eventually brought it to its knees. <BR /> <BR />It is difficult to see what is new about this approach of ramming through a Budget Bill unscrutinised, and it would not inspire any hope in an electorate that wants nothing more than a clean break from the scandal-laden past of the Assembly.”
“Obviously, funds could be made available if the will were there. Will the Minister ensure that all the buildings in his Department are up to the required standard so that they do not waste energy or carbon?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is plainly in contravention of the most basic elements of democratic debate to have a discussion like this and not call a single Member from a non-Executive party. What does the Executive have to hide when it comes to paramilitarism?”
“<BR /> <BR />Finally, when it comes to language rights, we should question the unnecessary equivalence that the Executive continue to demand when the Irish language is mentioned. Despite a much-hailed "New approach", the constant equivalence only further entrenches sectarianism by doubling down on the two-traditions approach, whereby communalism is elevated in politics while other approaches, such as working-class history, labour history, women's history and more, can be relegated.”
“Gaeilgeoirí were promised no return to Stormont without the Irish language Act that they needed, and that has not happened. The plans do not give the language official status, which is a key demand in order to protect it from the whims of individual Ministers, such as the cut to Líofa funding. Whilst I welcome the appointment of an Irish language commissioner, I am concerned that his or her work could be vetoed by the deputy First Minister or the First Minister and that suggestions for best practice are required only to be given due regard by Ministers. Ministers in the business of making decisions such as cutting the Líofa funding will lose little sleep over the commissioner, especially when the post is announced without any mention of funding, signage or rights.”
“While housing associations can and should work in harmony with the Housing Executive, the privatisation of those organisations removes accountability, as it strips away necessary oversight and answerability. Housing associations should not be the main vehicle for providing homes, but, if they are allowed to borrow and build while the Housing Executive cannot, that may indeed become the case, especially as the Minister for Communities cannot rule out the selling off of Housing Executive houses beyond this year. <BR /> <BR />There are some welcome moves on the Irish language that are evidently the result of the hard work of Irish language activists but fall disappointingly short of the commitments given in the St Andrews Agreement.”
“While we pay more, people in every community and constituency suffer. Today, I reiterate our call to scrap the reforms and implement a social security system that aims to protect the most vulnerable in our communities, not only to save money but to save lives. <BR /> <BR />I move on to the proposed housing Bill. We have a huge waiting list emergency, with certain communities particularly affected, yet our Housing Executive barely functions. To rectify the situation, the Executive should allow the Housing Executive to borrow against itself and promote a rapid programme of building public housing; instead, we see plans to allow housing associations to do exactly that.”
“Those who move to houses that better accommodate their disability, illness or children will be hit with the bedroom tax if that new home has more bedrooms than they require. <BR /> <BR />That is our reality, because the Assembly did the Tories' dirty work. At the time, the big parties told us that they had no choice but to implement welfare reform, because, otherwise, Westminster would fine us. At the time, People Before Profit refused to accept that excuse. Five years on, we are backed by studies that show that we lose at least £1 billion from our economy every year because of welfare reform. The amount that we pay in mitigations and from outsourcing PIP assessments, added to the amount that people have lost from their pocket, is much more than we would have paid in fines to Westminster.”
“I thank the Member for his point. I agree with him: it was voted for by those parties. <BR /> <BR />Those on the personal independence payment (PIP) face traumatic application processes carried out by private companies that have been the subject of incredible allegations, such as ignoring medical evidence. Many are denied PIP by those same companies, only for them to win appeals because it is found that they do need the support. The average waiting time for an appeal is an incredible 33 and a half weeks and much longer for the 7,000 people who have had their appeal adjourned. <BR /> <BR />Some already pay the disgraceful bedroom tax, despite claims from some Sinn Féin Members that People Before Profit and I were not telling the truth when we warned of that inevitability.”
“There are things to be welcomed in the legislative programme, but I find it disappointing how the Executive plan to address some important issues. As was mentioned, despite declaring a climate emergency in week one, there is no pledge to legislate for measures to tackle the crisis. On welfare, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who says that this brutal system designed by the Tories does not require mitigations. Only last week, we heard that universal credit was directly connected to the rise in clinical depression. Under the current mitigations package, too many people are not being protected. People face a six-week wait for benefits. We have had a surge in the number of food banks and in food poverty, with single mothers feeling the sharpest effects, being punished by the brutal and misogynistic two-child tax cap.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and join him in wishing a speedy recovery to the member of the public who contracted the virus. Does the Minister agree that people who are forced to take time out of work due to containment should not be out of pocket or financially penalised for doing so?”
“The Minister stated correctly that removing carbon from the atmosphere is essential. Afforestation obviously provides an opportunity to do so. Does he agree that re-wetting drained bogs and bogland is also essential to tackling climate change, so that they will act as a huge carbon sink?”
“That means that, where we see positives, we will support and welcome them; where I can work with the big parties to make positive changes for my constituents, I will do so. I note, for example, fresh talk in the Chamber today about workers' rights. I hope to have the support of those who made comments about workers' rights to ensure that my trade union freedom Bill has a successful journey through the House. Where we get a sniff of harmful moves by the Executive, we will challenge it. We will interrogate those financial moves in particular that have a real impact on the lived experience of people here. We will not, therefore, offer our approval today. Instead, I will continue to scrutinise and hold the Executive to account in the period ahead.”
“<BR /> <BR />We will not stop pushing and pressing to ensure that the Assembly does not make cuts that hurt the most vulnerable, but, if that happens, we will be in our communities organising against it, building people power and throwing our weight behind the trade unions defending workers. Not a week has gone by since the Executive got together without the leaking of a fresh quote about water charges, tuition fees, prescription fees or the sell-off of Housing Executive homes. New Decade, New Approach? It does not feel that way so far. <BR /> <BR />The five-party Executive, which makes up the majority of the Assembly, clearly needs a strong Opposition. People Before Profit is the socialist opposition in the Chamber. I was elected as a socialist voice, and I will continue to use my platform in that way.”
“I will not. Sorry. All the Executive parties had about seven hours to set out their stall, so I will set out mine without taking any interventions. <BR /> <BR />We will certainly not be beholden to any austerity Budget. People elected me to take a stand against that kind of behaviour, and that is what I intend to do. We believe that there is a different way forward: one based on taxing the very rich to pay for public services; one based on investing heavily in public services and that enforces proper minimum wages to kick-start our economy, rather than one that drops to its knees, pockets open for whatever multinational corporation is interested; and not an economy that relies on the whim of free-market forces.”
“Most concerning of all, just like the £24 million, there has been little or no scrutiny or oversight. Every corner of this Chamber seems to agree on that, so I cannot fathom how the Executive, who claim to be championing a new approach for a new decade, are happy to sign off on those figures when they have barely touched the oversight measures demanded by the Assembly. To have financial decisions rubber-stamped by MLAs without a shred of proper scrutiny demonstrates that the Assembly has also failed the test of accountability. <BR /> <BR />People Before Profit has no truck with such antics.”
“All indications point to a continuation of that theme. Indeed, we listened to almost every Committee Chair in the Assembly speak about hard decisions, cuts and underfunding in the context of the Estimates and this Budget Bill. As I pointed out yesterday, the detail of the Bill contains very concerning elements, such as £24 million in reductions, albeit retrospective, to the budget of DAERA, the Department with responsibility for the environment. At a time when we are addressing climate change — the biggest test of our generation — it is hard not to think, in advance of any new Budget, that the Assembly has already failed the test by approving those figures. <BR /> <BR />Other glaring reductions are to be written into legislation today, many as concerning as the £24 million from DAERA.”
“We have heard that the British Government apparently rowed back on the financial promises that they made in negotiations. I ask the Finance Minister to take the opportunity when he comes back to the Dispatch Box to enlighten Members and the public on exactly what those financial promises were. That is the basic level of transparency that I have been calling for since the deal was agreed. His silence on that front leads us to believe that, in order to avoid an election, in which they would likely have lost seats, the two big parties missed a historic opportunity to tie down the British Government to serious commitments. <BR /> <BR />It is in that context that we are now faced with a continuation of the same old austerity processes, the same context of empty promises and little political will to deliver.”
“It might have been 20,000 public-sector job losses, but, thankfully, they did not get their wish. <BR /> <BR />These are the parties of RHI. We listen to the Finance Minister suggest that the Assembly is in need of some £600 million. It is quite glaring that almost that exact figure was burned as part of the RHI scandal: a scheme that they should have shut down but did not. The hundreds of millions of pounds squandered on the RHI is needed now more than ever for public services. <BR /> <BR />It is my view that the two big parties, Sinn Féin and the DUP, supported the British Government's new deal primarily to avoid an election. In doing so, they signed up to a deal that secured no costed financial commitments from the British Government.”
“Those same parties were so opposed to Tory austerity that they introduced welfare reforms on the Tories' behalf, decimating our welfare system and driving people to food banks and into poverty. They told us that there was no money to implement pay parity for health workers, but only after they signed up to PFI schemes in our health service and beyond to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds. Lo and behold, when the nurses and health workers refused to give up the fight, the money that we were told was not there for pay was found pretty quickly in the Stormont coffers. No Westminster lump sum was necessary. <BR /> <BR />I labour the point because it is hypocritical at best for parties to condemn Tory austerity on the one hand while implementing it with the other. I mean austerity measures such as thousands of public-sector job losses.”
“There is an irony, however, Mr Deputy Speaker, to sitting in the Chamber and listening to the big parties talk about Tory austerity. The Civil Service workers who were on strike yesterday and again today are on picket lines because the Assembly has so far refused to pay them the wage that they deserve. Of course, a lump sum from Westminster would go some way towards solving that problem, but let us not forget about the parties in the Chamber that prioritised tax handouts for big corporations for a decade. This would have cost us £300 million per year from our block grant, and the big parties can readily envision £300 million for big business, but they cannot envision the money needed for the civil servants that they have been falling over themselves to thank over the last few days for running this place for the last three years.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, yesterday I stood with workers at the Belfast courts who are striking because they cannot get the pay they deserve and because measures like redundancies have increased their workload substantially. For those who have not joined those workers on the picket lines, I can tell you that the level of mistrust that they have for politicians is massive. There is a frustration that has deepened as their struggle has gone on, and it is hard to imagine how the way that the Bill will probably be passed today will alleviate that mistrust one bit. <BR /> <BR />We have heard a lot about Tory austerity, and, indeed, I am an ardent opponent of the Tories in general and the austerity measures in particular from Westminster that have crippled communities like mine.”
“Given that mental health is, obviously, a priority for the Minister, will he do all that he can to ensure that mental health groups that struggle to stay open, such as Compass Counselling on the Shankill, will be supported to stay open?”
“It is concerning that there are commitments in New Decade, New Approach that have not been adequately budgeted for. There is talk of funding gaps of several hundreds of millions of pounds. Will the Minister commit to doing all that he can to ensure that the British Government live up to their commitments?”
“I also appreciate that there is a large backlog of work due to the unique situation that the Assembly finds itself in. However, the institutions have been sitting for some weeks, and more time should have been afforded to critically engage with the financial Estimates. It is a false choice to present an ultimatum that the Assembly must give blanket approval to the Estimates, which include cuts to DAERA, or trigger a disastrous situation in spending. I cannot sincerely give my approval by engaging in such a false choice, and I call for more time to be afforded for proper scrutiny.”
“People Before Profit does not support such a reduction in DAERA spending. <BR /> <BR />I note that, during the Finance Committee meeting last week, one MLA had the good sense to ask for an explanation of the DAERA decrease, but no one was able to explain it to him; indeed, I have been trying to ascertain that detail myself. No one has been able to explain it to me or my party staff in the short time afforded to us for scrutiny. I find it ludicrous, then, that the Finance Committee was told that it must approve the Estimates and that here we are, being asked to approve them in the Chamber. It would be reckless to do so. I appreciate that the Chair of the Finance Committee raised similar concerns about the level of scrutiny that has been possible.”
“If the Estimates are voted through today, it will be with a clear and recognised lack of scrutiny and accountability. That, simply, is not good enough. <BR /> <BR />There appear to be some positives in the Estimates, with departmental increases to address pension payments, for example. Public services are, obviously, crying out for investment, and increases in public-sector spending should be welcomed. However, we are also asked to give blanket approval to a huge range of Estimates, the finer detail of which is not clear. Even a cursory glance shows some worrying financial movements, such as the decrease in DAERA spending of up to £24 million in cash resources and £10 million in net resource, which has been referred to. I find that extremely concerning at a time when we need to see investment to tackle issues such as the climate crisis.”
“It is seriously concerning that such serious financial decisions — many of them retrospective — are being presented to the Chamber at such short notice, with little to no time for oversight or approval through the normal channels expected by the Assembly. It is not just concerning; it is incredibly frustrating. I have attempted to get clear answers from Committee Clerks, departmental officials and staff about the details of the spring Estimates, but I have been unable to get detailed answers in time. One member of staff rightly pointed out that officials should not be expected to respond with such detail at short notice. How, then, are MLAs expected to scrutinise and vote on important financial decisions with the shortest of notice?”
“I begin by saying that, obviously, public confidence in these institutions has been pretty low for some time. There is a general perception that Stormont is a gravy train where politicians simply turn up and take their wage for rubber-stamping legislation and where financial decisions are primarily drafted by unelected officials, advisers or spads; indeed, those concerns were right at the heart of the RHI debacle and the collapse of the previous Assembly. Overcoming that perception will be a test for the new Assembly. On the basis of the fact that we are being asked to approve the spring Supplementary Estimates today with nowhere near enough time for the appropriate scrutiny, it is hard to see how anything has changed.”
“I thank the Minister for her response, but it is disappointing that she did not rule out tuition fees going up in this Assembly term. Is it fair that people who availed themselves of free education can tell students that they have to be landed with a mountain of debt when they come out of university?”
“Given that there is considerable opposition to the application, including by my party, which submitted several thousand objections to it, and ongoing concern about the environment, will she give an indication of whether she will rule out granting the licence?”
“The Minister stated that there were some 5,000 consultation responses about the application for drilling in the Lough Neagh and Belfast areas, including parts of my constituency.”
“Thank you, Minister, for your answer. I cannot speak on behalf of all the families, but I would imagine that they would be willing to meet you. I thank you for that offer. Five people were massacred — shot down in cold blood — three of whom were teenagers. It is an absolute crime, and those families deserve truth and justice. I will certainly pass that message on to the families.”
“Similarly, we must ensure that any changes to IVF access do not see more barriers erected for people who are struggling to become parents — for example, having to prove that one has been trying to get pregnant for up to two years could present obvious and unnecessary barriers for lesbian and trans couples. <BR /> <BR />We in People Before Profit support access for couples and those who are single, regardless of their sexuality and as late as is considered possible by health experts. We also believe that we should roll out a fertility education and information programme but that it must be inclusive and up to date.”
“If we see three free cycles of IVF on the NHS, it will be because of the hard work, sustained pressure and passion of those campaigners, many of whom will never be able to avail themselves of the changes because time has passed. We owe them a debt. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned, of course, that the Minister of Health said recently that the Regional Fertility Centre did not currently have the capacity to meet the need if the Department grants three cycles of IVF on the NHS. We need urgent action to address that issue to ensure that there is absolutely no hold-up in offering more cycles of IVF via the NHS.”
“I am glad to have the opportunity to support greater access to fertility treatment. We know that the issue has caused great distress to a great many people and couples, and we heard that today. I am sure that those who are struggling to conceive will feel a bit of relief that their journey to conception may become a lot more hopeful from today onwards. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to the campaigners who have been fighting for the change for years. Many have shared their heartbreaking experiences, and many have given up their time to gather signatures, to protest and to meet politicians. They were told that we did not have the money to offer more cycles, but they kept up the fight. They were told by previous Health Ministers that they might get just one more cycle but only if budgets allowed, yet they kept up the fight.”
“I am not sure if the Minister is aware that the Minister for Infrastructure said this morning, in a written answer to a question from me, that there are no plans to bring outsourced maintenance of DVA equipment in-house. Does the Minister share the view of his Executive colleague?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree with me that it is disappointing that the AERA Minister did not rule out opposing any further extraction of fossil fuels in the future? Does she agree that the only way we have a chance of saving our environment is by stopping the drilling for and extraction of fossil fuels?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Will the Minister support the calls for no further extraction of fossil fuels in our country? It would be very significant for people who are campaigning to save the environment if he said, today, that he would refuse to support further extraction, and would call for no more exploration of fossil fuels. Will he support that call?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Too often, in the last Assembly, the voices of the smaller parties were not heard. Today, it is a shame that the voice of my party, and those who vote for us, has not been heard. My party provides the only eco-socialist voice in the Chamber. I ask you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and your office to look at how every voice and all parties can be included in future debates.”
“Given today's announcement that the bedroom tax mitigations will be extended, what does the Minister intend to do to help those who lost their supplementary payments when they moved to a house with the same number of rooms because it suited their outstanding needs — for example, people who had to move to a different accommodation to make sure it suited and could accommodate their disabilities? What will she do to ensure that people who have lost out on their supplementary payments will be supported?”
“I thank the Minister for his reply. I add that investment in cycling and public transport is very important. Are the Minister and his officials happy to meet me, alongside some of the residents of the Stockmans area, to talk about what he and his Department can do to alleviate the air pollution levels?”
“Without extra support, extra funding and extra classroom assistants, the whole provision of extra training may be futile, because under-pressure teachers and assistants may not have the time or space to put the whole thing into practice. <BR /> <BR />Finally, and importantly, we have to be careful that the provision of mandatory training for autism in mainstream schools is not used as an excuse to shut down special needs schools. In 2018, I led a campaign alongside teachers, classroom assistants, trade unionists, parents and pupils of special needs schools in Belfast against the closure of special needs schools, and I have no doubt that, if plans emerge again to try to shut down or amalgamate special needs schools, a similar campaign will be back on the streets of our city of Belfast, with all the ferocity that existed before.”
“We must ensure that the development of this training programme has the input of people with autism and of teachers and classroom assistants who are across the current failings in the system and who know that, because of educational attainment or gender, some children can be overlooked or dismissed as acting out. <BR /> <BR />We absolutely must ensure that our teachers and classroom assistants, who do the utmost to support their classes and their children and who are already overworked and due a pay rise, see the necessary investment in education to ensure that children with autism get the support they deserve in a sustainable way. To do that, we must address the underspend in education.”
“<BR /> <BR />We absolutely endorse training and education as essential criteria for supporting people with autism, but we also know that much more must be done on top of that to slash waiting times and to address the wider issues such as underinvestment in education in general, bigger class sizes and a lack of access to classroom assistants, to name but a few. <BR /> <BR />We are clear that, whatever mandatory training is put in place, it must not be a tick-box exercise but must be wide-reaching and encompass all the research that has been found to support children with autism. It should be adaptive to react to the different levels and types of support that different pupils with different needs require.”
“<BR /> <BR />None of this touches on the impact of under-provision and misrepresentation outside of school time, such as the fact that people have to fundraise to pay for respite or even basic facilities and services, or the fact that negative and harmful stereotypes about people with autism are still perpetuated in society. Disgracefully, autism was used last week by a Fine Gael elected member as a slur on somebody else in the general election campaign in the South. Too often, the term has been used as an attempt to delegitimise Greta Thunberg's campaign and as a slur against her. People with autism deserve much better than that, but, unfortunately, on these issues they are being failed.”
“Too many are unable to get statemented, too many are left with no offer from a school each September because of their statement, and too many do not get the proper educational support even when they have been statemented. <BR /> <BR />All those failings can have serious impacts going forward. We see people with autism experiencing mental health problems because of a lack of support services, and we see children underachieving educationally because of a lack of provision. We also have working-class families being forced to pay privately to get their children diagnosed with autism. None of this is good enough, and it is totally unacceptable.”