Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“Minister, it is better to break the stringent, out-of-date fiscal rules than to break working-class communities. I asked this question before in the Finance Committee and got a mixed answer, so I would appreciate it if you could bring some clarity for me: can you outline how much of an overspend Departments can enter into?”
“Like the Member for Lagan Valley and other Members, I was contacted over the weekend by EOTAS workers who are concerned about the EA's announcement of the suspension of referrals to their provision. Workers are furious about that decision. Minister, have you carried out any assessment of how it will affect vulnerable people, given the work that EOTAS workers do?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it right and fitting for the Member to repeat things that are categorically untrue — Mr Buckley has done it once again — such as that I am antisemitic. That is a slur and a lie, and he should withdraw that remark right now.”
“I am sure that many of the same slanderous remarks will be recycled in the debate, as the DUP is not renowned for its creativity. Those accusations should be utterly rejected and condemned by all. <BR /> <BR />It is an embarrassment to the institutions that big parties here claim that they want to protect at all costs Minister Givan continuing in his role as Minister of Education. I appeal to the Minister to do the right thing, make his apologies, accept that he is not fit to hold the post of Minister of Education, and step aside.”
“As you can imagine, the staff are demoralised and furious about the lack of communication and transparency. I could go on and on, but it is a long list that I do not have the time to go through. <BR /> <BR />Paul Givan's tenure as Education Minister was marred with controversy and failings long before this scandal. He has failed education workers, schools and some of the most vulnerable and marginalised in our communities. He has ducked and weaved in and out of the truth in order to justify a trip to Israel as it actively continues to commit genocide against Palestinians. While in Israel, he failed to uphold his Pledge of Office and to comply with the ministerial code of conduct. He has made deeply offensive and unfounded accusations of antisemitism, because he is in a tailspin.”
“to fill a £300 million black hole in the budget. That is austerity on steroids. <BR /> <BR />The Minister ordered the removal from the EA website of guidance and support for trans pupils, trying to further kick, marginalise and attack a community that is already under huge repression and attacks. His Department published plans to criminalise teachers for not taking part in school inspections while taking legal industrial action. Just last week, the EA announced that it was hiking the price of school meals and cutting overtime payments and school music programmes. A few days ago, I was contacted by an education other than at school (EOTAS) teacher who works with marginalised and vulnerable young people. Disgracefully, the EA had told them that referrals to that provision were being suspended.”
“Maybe in a second. <BR /> <BR />The DUP fears the power of the local and global Palestine Solidarity Movement, which is cross-community, diverse and filled with millions of people of all ages, religions and backgrounds. <BR /> <BR />In response to the motion, some people talked about the need to focus on issues at home, but I say, "Look at home. Look at the state of our schools". A total of 84 schools across the North are suffering from black mould, and six of those are in the Minister's constituency. That is the context in which he chose to travel to Israel for six days to visit one school and to smile alongside the Israeli Government. The Education Authority (EA) told principals recently:”
“The Minister and his party made a fundamental mistake in writing off the anger of the Palestine Solidarity Movement and people across communities in the North as antisemitic, sectarian or terrorist sympathising. That is not just a cynical deflection tactic; the DUP accuses its critics of being antisemitic or sectarian because it so desperately wants that to be the truth.”
“In a second, maybe. <BR /> <BR />In that state, "Death to the Arabs" is regularly chanted in the streets by settlers, with absolutely no repercussions. Days before the Minister smiled for pictures in the Knesset, that same body voted to annex the West Bank — a decision that would further breach international law and that was criticised heavily by US Vice-President JD Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, those well-known members of that left-wing cabal. <BR /> <BR />Millions of us have been forced to watch the death, torture, bloodshed and suffering of Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli state. I cannot fathom how anyone could see children with missing limbs and lifeless bodies being pulled out of rubble and then accept an invitation from the people who are directly responsible for that mass slaughter.”
“Paul Givan chose to visit a school in those occupied territories. Bizarrely, he patted himself on the back for visiting a school in illegally occupied territory because it was integrated. The irony of that statement should not be lost, given his party's role in preventing integration at home on every step of the way. <BR /> <BR />The Minister repeated lies about the education that Palestinians receive. He claimed, last week, that they are told to hate the Jews. That is completely false and inaccurate, is deeply racist towards Arabs and ignores the hatred that is taught in the Israeli education system —.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I have just set out, the case for the Minister to resign is strong before we even consider that he made an official visit to a state that is carrying out an active genocide against the people of Palestine, while Ministers here have a duty to prevent genocide at all costs. For the record, I believe that the Minister's travelling to Israel during this genocide is reason enough to question his fitness for ministerial office. Israel has openly defied international law time and again, inflicting maximum suffering on civilians. That is not just my view or the view of other parties in the House but the words of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. The International Court of Justice has recognised the unlawfulness of Israel's ongoing presence in the occupied Palestinian territories.”
“The Minister has levelled a charge of antisemitism against me in particular and other Members of this Chamber who asked questions about his recent trip to Israel. I wish to refute that in the strongest possible terms and to condemn the Minister for diminishing the truly horrific and deeply serious reality of antisemitism by flinging it at his critics like a get-out-of-jail-free card. I would also like to remind him of the great replacement-type conspiracy theories that have been repeated by his party colleagues almost every single week, which have their roots in antisemitic hatred. It is his party that peddles far right rhetoric in an attempt to deflect and blame minorities and migrants for society's ills. The Minister should be ashamed and apologetic, but then he is not known for his honesty or his humility.”
“That rule was clearly flouted. The visit was a propaganda junket funded by the Israeli state. There can be no other way to describe it, hence the huge outcry from a huge number of the public. In this Chamber, a matter of days before the trip, Paul Givan expressed his thanks to the Israeli Defence Forces, as he calls them. I wonder whether that was before he had his ticket booked to Jerusalem. <BR /> <BR />In response to incredibly serious questions about his decision-making in office, Minister Givan has refused to acknowledge or apologise for breaking the rules of his office. Instead, he has sought to deflect, obfuscate and sling offensive, inaccurate slurs. Had he not been so offensive and arrogant, this matter might have blown over.”
“Despite the Minister's bluster and mudslinging, there is no doubt that those meetings were official meetings. Paul Givan said that the parts of his visit pertaining to his role as Minister were totally non-political. That, again, is not true. He visited the Israeli Parliament, where he was listed not as an individual MLA but as the Minister of Education. He shared an overtly political social media post about the event, insinuating that Israeli parliamentarians think that the North should remain a part of the UK. <BR /> <BR />Paul Givan claims that his trip to Israel was an objective, fact-finding mission. Indeed, the principle of integrity in the ministerial code of conduct states that those in public office should not have financial or other obligations to outside organisations that could influence their official duties.”
“He later admitted that it was his idea and decision to make the trip relevant to his role as Education Minister. Minister Givan claimed that the trip came at no cost to the public purse. That was also untrue. The visit to the school was publicised using departmental resources. In the House last week, the Minister stated that he had meetings with his officials in the Department to discuss the trip. That also has a cost attached to it. <BR /> <BR />The Functioning of Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 states that a Minister who holds an official meeting must ensure that a civil servant is present. That did not happen, even though Paul Givan said explicitly that the school visit was directly relevant to his ministerial portfolio.”
“It is clear that the Minister of Education has lost the confidence of the majority of parties and MLAs in the House. I thank the parties who have supported the motion today — Sinn Féin, the SDLP and Alliance, as well as the independent MLA, Claire Sugden. The Minister has lost the support of tens of thousands of people outside this Building, including the teaching unions and many who work in education. He has brought his Department into disrepute, failed to uphold the Pledge of Office and failed to comply with the ministerial code of conduct. <BR /> <BR />I wish to set out with the utmost clarity the case for Paul Givan to resign as Minister of Education. Paul Givan stated that he travelled to Israel in his capacity as an individual MLA. That was found to be untrue.”
“The voluntary groups also do tremendous work, but the services are not really in place, and, with respect, I do not hear a plan from you, Minister, or the Health Minister to try to address that issue.”
“The answer to a question for written answer that I submitted revealed that there is one bereavement services coordinator in the Belfast Health and Social Care Trust, there is none in the Southern Health and Social Care Trust and there is one in the Northern Health and Social Care Trust, that the number of bereavement nurses in each trust area is one or zero, and that the number of bereavement midwives in each trust area is two, one or zero. There is a massive issue in that regard because of the good aims of the Bill: people who are traumatised or have issues that they need to express are going to come forward, but, unfortunately, the support will not be there for them. That is not to downplay the important work that is done by healthcare workers already, but they are a small number of people who are under pressure.”
“I tried to introduce an amendment about the lack of bereavement support nurses and services in place, but I was told that that issue was connected to Westminster legislation. I raise it because it is something that the Minister and the Health Minister need to tackle. The Member who spoke previously touched on the issue. As, hopefully, the Bill becomes law, it is likely that a large number of bereaved people will come forward, which is their right, but there is no coordination or plan in place from Ministers to address that situation.”
“There cannot be a partitionist approach for same-sex parents and so many families.”
“It is ironic — cruelly ironic — that parties who talk about women's rights to attack trans people cannot allow or stomach same-sex parents who are women the chance to register a birth or stillbirth. I highlight that hypocrisy. The clause is a step forward for parents who are non-birth mothers, although there is an anomaly and a gap that I have raised with the Minister and in Committee. Constituents of mine who go through IVF treatment in the South do not have the same rights to register a birth or stillbirth in the North.”
“It looks as though it is designed to create a chill factor around a healthcare issue for women. I will oppose it for that reason and urge others to do so as well. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 6 strengthens the accountability mechanisms in the House and for the Committee to ensure that the regulations on certificates match what the public and grieving parents want and expect. We heard from Forget-me-not that language is important when it comes to bereavement. Often, legislation can be misunderstood. It comes across as dry and not compassionate, even when it is trying not to be. The language is really important in this case. <BR /> <BR />Clause 8 deals with the rights of same-sex couples.”
“As I have said before in Committee, not only does that show a contemptible view of the public but it will cause harm and probably trauma to people who have suffered and been bereaved, thus rendering the Bill's aims redundant and counterproductive. Amendment Nos 2 and 3 deal with that. Amendment No 2 is stronger, so I urge people to support that amendment. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4 seems OK on the face of it, unless the Member has other motives. I am interested to hear from the Minister on it. I have taken note of comments from Kellie Armstrong and Steve Aiken as well. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 5 tries to stigmatise women who have had terminations and will put people under pressure to think that, in the future, they may need a certificate or that a certificate may be compulsory and they will have to mention their termination.”
“As I have said before, the Bill's broad aims are important for everyone who has experienced baby loss, death or stillbirth. I commend everybody who has spoken out, including Ms Armstrong and other Members who have experienced that sadness and tragedy. <BR /> <BR />There are, however, gaps in the Bill. I have raised that before. It is completely unconscionable that the Department and the Minister are including a provision to charge for certificates. I have been consistent on that. The reason given for that is not strong or robust enough. The only argument that I have heard from the Department and the Minister is that, in the future, somebody may ask for a large number of certificates, thus costing the Department money. That is my reading of the explanation that has been given.”
“I heard Mr Frew's point. Does the Member share my concern that, if a mother and father or a same-sex couple were to separate, under Mr Frew's amendment, they would not be charged for two copies, but, if a grandparent, uncle or another close relative — a third person, if you will — wanted to apply for a certificate under the legislation, and the Department decided to charge, they could be charged, which could lead to more bereavement and upset? Is the Member concerned that, if his amendment does not pass, that situation could be in play?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with his assessment. Does he share my concern that the Department and the Minister are saying one thing but doing the other? They are saying, "We don't want to charge for certificates, but, at the same time, we're going to have the power to charge people for them". Does the Member agree that that is doublespeak?”
“The Minister is completely out of step with public opinion and completely out of step with the majority opinion in the House. Will he save himself further embarrassment and step down now?”
“Rent-free in your head, Minister, I suggest. There has been widespread opposition to the Minister's recent whitewashing propaganda trip to Israel, which was political from the start to the middle and end. I commend the hundreds of people in Belfast who came out at the weekend and called for him to go. I commend the Mothers Against Genocide protest today, calling for him to go. I also commend the teachers who came out this afternoon from Colaiste Feirste and other schools and protested, calling for him to go. I commend the tens of thousands of people who signed a petition calling for him to go.”
“I agree with that, Minister. Terms and conditions for workers that include fair pay are essential for services to be rolled out, including, of course, the night bus. Minister, have your officials looked at taking action to address the fact that drivers are stuck on buses, in some cases for up to five hours at a time, without any breaks? That is leading to a lot of anger, injuries and grumblings among workers in Translink in particular.”
“North and South. <BR /> <BR />The future is unwritten, but the cracks are starting to appear. Cracks of light are coming through, and Catherine will shine a torch brightly for everybody who wants to see a positive and different future. Comhghairdeas agus beir bua.”
“People are enthused and inspired by the realisation that we can have a different type of politics and that we can have a Government in the South without the civil war, right-wing, gombeen parties. People want a new hope, and, although her position is that of a figurehead, Catherine Connolly provides that hope in droves. <BR /> <BR />It was great to see Catherine Connolly at Cultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiaich in my constituency in the past week. I hosted her there a few months ago at the start of her campaign. It was great to see her back, meeting people, chatting to them and getting a bite to eat. It was fantastic to see her at the Oireachtas na Samhna this week, standing up as a Gaelgeoir for all Gaelgeoirí”
“I sincerely hope that this is the last time that people in the North, including me, my family and my community, will not have a vote in a presidential election. It is a crying shame that people who live on this island, travel in it and contribute so much to it cannot play their part in voting for the figurehead of the state. Despite that, Catherine Connolly achieved a record vote. The Member to my right who shouted at me should listen to this: she received almost one million votes — the biggest vote in the history of voting for the Uachtarán, the president of Ireland. <BR /> <BR />It was fantastic to see the parties of the left come together to back Catherine as Uachtarán through the campaign.”
“In the middle of a genocide and the killing of at least 20,000 children and hundreds of thousands of women and men slaughtered by Israel, Catherine Connolly has been an ardent critic of Israel's actions for years and a stalwart supporter of the right to Palestinian self-determination. Members would do well to listen to her on that matter. As Governments make excuses, wring their hands and, on occasion, fund Israel, it is important that we have a president who stands up on the right side for citizens on the island.”
“The recent election of Catherine Connolly has given people hope, amidst the despair and rising sentiment of right-wing and racist ideas that are growing in Ireland and across the world, that things can be different. Catherine Connolly clearly stands on the right side for people here and across the world and lets us know that things can be different. In the middle of a housing crisis North and South it is important that we have a president who recognises where the blame should lie for that. We have problems with skyrocketing rents, landlordism and homes lying empty. Catherine Connolly has articulated a solution to the housing crisis that is positive and inclusive and that most people can get behind.”
“Ba mhaith liom mo chomhghairdeas a dhéanamh lenár nUachtarán nua tofa, Catherine Connolly.”
“Be quiet. You have had your time. <BR /> <BR />It seems to be a non-subtle way to try and stick the boot into asylum seekers and refugees. It is poor housing, a lack of regulation and extortionate rents that are upsetting the "balance of a community", not demographic changes as you are alleging. My question was referred to earlier but it was not adequately addressed. In 2019, the British High Court ruled that the right-to-rent scheme was racially discriminatory and had "little to no effect" on controlling immigration. Minister, it sounds like you did not do your homework on this one.”
“Minister, any attempt to clamp down on rogue landlords or those who are exploiting people through high rents is welcome. I am not sure that that is what this is; it seems to be a non-subtle way to try and stick the boot —.”
“The Health Minister tells health and social care workers that there is no money to pay them, but his Department has paid over £400 million not to the independent sector but to the private health sector. That is a disgrace. <BR /> <BR />It is time to stop taking advantage of all those who work in health and social care. It is time to stop exploiting those workers and making below-inflation pay offers that amount to less than those made to healthcare workers in the South and in England, Scotland and Wales. It is time to pay health and social care workers what they are owed and what is due to them.”
“The blame should not be placed at their door for having the temerity and the gall to stand up for themselves, for their communities and for future public-sector workers across the board. The blame should be placed at the door of the system and of the Executive, who give rates handouts to multinational corporations and landlords whilst telling health and social care workers, "Sorry, the money is not available". <BR /> <BR />The last time that there was a political crisis in this place, politicians promised health and social care workers safe staffing legislation and proper, fair pay. The Executive have categorically failed on both fronts, and people are right to rail against them.”
“Thanks, Mr Speaker. What does it say about our society that, with the passing of another year, there is another attempt at a strategy to deny our health and social care workers the pay that they are owed? How many times do health and social care workers need to be strung along by political parties and be told, "We get it", "We are with you" or "We have got your back", while Budgets are passed again that refuse to include the money set aside for those health and social care workers while continuing to slash our public-sector budgets? <BR /> <BR />In the absence of their pay being forthcoming, health and social care workers are totally correct and justified in taking strike action.”
“Minister, given that there is an outstanding pay award for health and social care staff, and that half the money is clearly not all the money, how will it be possible to implement the winter plan if health and social care staff remain underpaid and their demands are not met?”
“I thank the First Minister for her answer. She is aware that, earlier this year, Belfast City Council passed a motion, with the votes of Sinn Féin councillors among others, that expressed objection to the use of Belfast International Airport by US warplanes. At least 60 of them have gone through Aldergrove this year. Will she give an update on conversations with Belfast City Council on that matter and any action that she has taken as First Minister to express, I presume, her opposition to that fact?”
“It is clear that the policy is not only unfair and should not be in operation but is completely out of date and backward. Over the years, huge sums of public money that could have gone into the region — hundreds of millions of pounds — have been wasted on those companies, while they do not give a damn about their workers: they underpay them and exploit them. <BR /> <BR />Thank you for allowing me to present the petition in the Assembly today.”
“Companies such as Moy Park, Caterpillar and Coca-Cola do not need corporate handouts. They need to be human-rights compliant; they need to respect, protect and not pollute our environment; and those that are doing so need to not engage with or support the Israeli war machine. <BR /> <BR />The signatories to the petition have raised their objections to the fact that rates for homeowners and small businesses rise year-on-year. There is no derating process, handout or bailout for those people: they are forced to pay ever-increasing amounts for their rates. It is also worth mentioning that a similar policy was in operation for some time in England and Scotland, but came to an end in 1963 in the former and 1995 in the latter.”
“I present the petition on behalf of over 3,000 people who signed it to raise their objections to the ongoing industrial derating policy. I thank Roan and the team at Act Now, who gathered the signatures. <BR /> <BR />The petition challenges the fact that huge amounts of public money are going to major multinational corporations. The Department of Finance, no doubt, will tell people otherwise. Despite some of what we have heard today, that is money that working-class communities need. Nurses are being denied a pay rise, when they could have availed themselves of that almost £80 million. That money could go a huge way towards resolving the mental health crisis, the housing crisis and other crises in our communities. Every year, however, that money goes to multinational corporations.”
“Despite what spin Members try to put on it, unionists are not an oppressed minority. Of all the issues that the DUP could have brought to the Chamber tonight on poverty or inequality, they, instead, try to stir the pot of sectarianism. Shame on them for that. <BR /> <BR />Mar fhocal scoir, ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis na hateangairí don díospóireacht seo.”
“We have to reject the DUP's sectarianism. The rights of Irish speakers should be respected and resourced. Narrow nationalism will not serve the needs of working-class Gaeilgeoirí in Belfast or anywhere else. We need to take a socialist approach to the questions of the Irish language. <BR /> <BR />There has been a lot of talk about the Irish language being weaponised by some people. I will make a point of who is doing the weaponising tonight: it is the DUP. DUP Members are clearly vexed at the sight of bilingualism and of Irish anywhere. They are the biggest culprits when it comes to weaponisation and negative politicisation. <BR /> <BR />I will address some points that were made in the debate. Unionists may be in the minority in the House, but they are not an oppressed minority.”
“Those ridiculous and embarrassing attacks on the Irish language are designed to distract from that reality and keep working-class people angry at the wrong things. Sectarianism lets the whole establishment off the hook. Nationalist parties here are right to defend the language — we all agree on the need for that, obviously — but, in the same breath, all Executive parties implement a neoliberal agenda that punishes working class Gaeilgeoirí and working class people in general. They are complicit in the crises in our public services and housing. Mar a deir muid i nGaeilge, tá siad ag baint ó Pheadar le tabhairt do Phól.”
“Let us be clear: the DUP is trying to sectarianise the Irish language by talking about costs, trying to whip up racism and talking about transphobia, because working-class communities are suffering, and they are angry. The Executive share a lot of the blame for that stuff.”
“— you can tut all you want — as does working and sitting down with the Loyalist Communities Council. <BR /> <BR />We have heard much in the debate about cost. I remind Members that the DUP should not be trusted on accounting matters. The spirit of the RHI scheme is still alive and well in that party. <BR /> <BR />Sa dara háit, mar a deir an seanfhocal atá scríofa ar an bhealach isteach go Coláiste Feirste: Is fiú ór í an fhoghlaim. Is fiú ór í an méid atá le foghlaim faoin Ghaeilge sa chathair seo. Is fiú ór í Béal Feirste ina bhfuil an Ghaeilge lárnach inti. Is fiú ór í an infheistíocht a dhéantar sa teanga.”