Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
The complete record
Every one of 4,137 lines we hold for Gerry Carroll, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 70 of 83.
“The Executive and the Minister especially must now begin to make plans to ensure that no child goes hungry, whether in school or during holiday periods, regardless of whether we are in a health pandemic. In one of the wealthiest countries in human history, it is morally repugnant — it is sickening, in fact — that children and families are forced to go without meals and, far too often, families are forced to choose between heating their home or eating. <BR /> <BR />I want to hear the Minister's plans in response to my points and the issues that are highlighted firmly in the survey.”
“We would do well and the Minister would do well to take our lead from what is done in Finland, especially here — I refer to Mr Butler's points — in what is an overstretched and under-resourced education system that sees many pupils, including those with special educational needs, not getting the support and assistance that they need. Finland has equal access to education for every pupil, and we should ensure that that is rightfully and accurately in place here. <BR /> <BR />Another major concern highlighted in the survey was the lack of support for free school meals. The House should send a collective "Thank you" to Marcus Rashford, who has done more to highlight food poverty than any government Minister in the UK.”
“I am concerned that the Minister appears to be more concerned about battening down the hatches and defining what always was because it always was and wants to maintain a transfer test at all costs and ignore the concerns of parents, staff and pupils in the survey. <BR /> <BR />The Minister needs to look at how education works in places like Finland to learn what is the best practice and approach. Finland regularly tops the table for being the happiest place in the world and is widely regarded as having one of the best education systems in the world, not to mention having extended maternity leave for parents.”
“I thank the Member for his point. I agree, especially on free school meals, and I will come to that in a second. <BR /> <BR />What is the Minister's rationale for keeping this antiquated system in place? How can he justify testing young people at this age and putting them through a tremendous amount of stress and pressure in the middle of a global health pandemic that has thrown all certainties up in the air and has been a particularly tough period for our young people? The safety and well-being of children, as the Chair said, was the reasoning behind the commissioning of the report.”
“Those are sentiments that I certainly agree with.”
“<BR /> <BR />Although we are told that we are in unprecedented times and that everything needs to be on the agenda, it seems that the Minister is firm in maintaining a system that is unfair. As other Members have said, it labels people as failures from such a young age and puts them under enormous pressure. Those views are not solely those of this socialist MLA but are those of teachers in the survey, the largest proportion of whom called for the abolition of the test. Teachers and young people surveyed believe that it should be abolished. <BR /> <BR />The survey also shows a massive concern amongst parents, pupils and teachers about post-primary testing in general, with many calling for the system to be abolished. The concerns refer to the pressure placed on children and the fact that academic selection is unfair and elitist.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important that the concerns of all those who took part in the survey and of the community more generally are heard. Of all the groups surveyed in relation to post-primary transfer tests following COVID-19 and the lockdown period, 61% of parents and guardians, 64% of teachers and 67% of other interested parties stated that they were very or extremely concerned. Earlier in the debate, there was an attempt to dismiss that, but it is very important. When parents, guardians and teachers were asked for their preferred approach to post-primary transfer for the coming academic year, the highest scoring answer was to not run the tests and instead to permit post-primary schools to use non-academic admissions criteria. That is what they said, and the Minister needs to take that firmly on board.”
“It is important at any time but especially in the middle of a global pandemic that we listen to the voices of teachers, parents and young people. The report obviously does that. It is important that we are talking about it today, and the Minister should listen hard to what people have said in it. A concern of mine, shared by many others, is that, all along, the Minister has not listened to these voices and has operated on the basis that he knows best whilst some of his party colleagues simultaneously engage on a round of teacher bashing, disgracefully, during the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />It is worth saying that unions in the North, in the South and in England have already raised concerns about the reopening of schools. That needs to be put on the record too.”
“What is the Minister's plan to address any shortfall in wages in the scheme to ensure that people are not having their wages reduced at a time when the cost of fuel and other things is going up? Moreover, what is the Minister's financial plan if the Tories extend the scheme for only a month, as they have currently said?”
“Given that people in my constituency are hounded and humiliated to pay back benefits if they are overpaid, can the Minister explain why there is one rule for those constituents and another for those who are in and connected to Stormont and do not even need, or apply, for grants but get them regardless?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. I want to follow on from Mr O'Dowd's point about the suspension of Bus Éireann's Belfast to Dublin service. I am concerned that COVID is being used as an excuse to suspend those services, especially as it is being called "indefinite", no time has been given for when the services will resume and, obviously, previous Southern Governments' concerning propensity for stopping and suspending bus routes is very concerning. I know that she said that she raised the issue in the meeting, but does the Minister have any concern that, for all the Taoiseach's talk of a shared island, shared transport services do not seem to be on the Government's agenda?”
“That is especially important in the era of COVID, when people need to travel locally to experience the beauty of the island, and for the many people who do not or cannot drive, or who do not have access to a car. <BR /> <BR />Expanding the Derry service would, obviously, be a start to the endeavour, and it could set a benchmark that could be followed for other areas across the island. I share Members' support for railway expansion across the north-west region beyond Derry and Donegal and other places, but, frankly, I do not hold out much hope in the Southern Government delivering that, but I am happy to be proved wrong. I will leave it there.”
“Eamonn raised the issue when he was here, and people campaigned outside the Building and forced others to take the issue seriously. It is clear from my understanding of the issue, that pressure from below forced it on to the agenda and forced people to take it seriously as an issue at the forefront of local politics in Derry. <BR /> <BR />Trains are the most environmentally friendly means of mass transportation ever devised. Our rail service, as inadequate and underfunded as it is, is part of the public service. In the current decrepit state of capitalism, we must preserve all that we can of the public service. We live on a small and beautiful island, and we should put a necklace of rail around it for people to experience it in every way that they can.”
“I am a West Belfast MLA, but it is important that I speak on this issue as I am interested in and support the extension and rolling out of public services and infrastructure across the North more generally. I have frequently travelled on the slow but beautiful line from Belfast to Derry. That description is probably the only thing that I agree with Portillo on. <BR /> <BR />People Before Profit has been fighting for rail in Derry for many years — long before the big parties paid focus to the issue. To put it bluntly, the issue might not have been discussed as it is today had it not been for my former MLA colleague, Mr Eamonn McCann, and a handful of other activists in Into the West who raised the issue many years ago, when it was neither popular or profitable.”
“Thank you for giving way. I agree in broad terms with what, I think, he is outlining. However, does he agree that, as part of the united Ireland approach that he describes, the wealthier must pay a lot more? Positions that the Minister and his party have advocated previously did not seem to indicate that they were for that.”
“Whilst I might find it hard to divide the Chamber today, I want to put on record my opposition to the Budget for the reasons that I outlined.”
“If that pre-2010 tax rate was implemented, if that £160 billion — even a significant proportion of it — was collected, we would be in a different situation entirely. The Executive and the Finance Minister should emphasise these points. Does he agree with these points? If not, why not? If so, what is his strategy to press, fight, articulate and argue for them? <BR /> <BR />Given the extent of the crisis that we are living through, it is unhealthy to have such a lack of political opposition in this place. It is an unfortunate reflection of our political system and situation. For our part, we are elected to be a socialist opposition, to hold the bigger parties to account and to build an alternative in our communities and on the streets. For that reason, we do not, and I do not, go along with this Budget.”
“<BR /> <BR />Household wealth has risen by 13% from 2016 to 2018 and stands at £14·6 trillion, or £221,000 per person. That enormous wealth should be used to avoid the austerity disaster that was implemented last time. Why are the Executive not highlighting and trying to reduce that massive inequality that is screaming out in front of us? <BR /> <BR />Rishi Sunak, the Tory Chancellor, is pressing for corporation tax to rise by 5%, back to its pre-2010 levels, I believe. Why is this Minister, and the Executive as a whole, not pushing for a higher rate of corporation tax, even beyond the 5% that Rishi Sunak is proposing? UK companies are already able to exempt £160 billion of their profits from taxation, in addition to receiving one of the lowest headline rates in the OECD.”
“Those measures should include an emergency wealth tax to pay for the COVID crisis and shaking the magic money trees that exist in the back gardens of the very wealthy who reside here, in the South and in the UK to ensure that those with the largest shoulders carry the heaviest burden. <BR /> <BR />We need to make a radical break from the failures of the free market to put people and health before profit. The Minister may say that it is not in his remit to do that, but I would ask him whether he agrees with the point. If he does, he needs to project that, as he has on other issues, with Finance Ministers in Scotland and Wales. A Sinn Féin Finance Minister should be fighting and arguing loudly for the rich to pay their way in a greater sense.”
“Getting back to my point, there is also the issue of borrowing money to cut public-sector jobs and lower corporation tax but not to fund jobs and services. Mr Frew, if I heard him correctly, spoke of money not being spent by Departments. What is going on with that? <BR /> <BR />The Assembly has revenue-raising streams, including powers to borrow and to lift the cap on rates for the wealthy. These are, as has been said in many debates, extraordinary times, so extraordinary measures must be taken. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, the Minister pointed out the need for alternative proposals to address some of the issues that I raised yesterday and today. That requires serious thinking outside the box, which the Department and Executive have not done or do not seem willing to do.”
“I refer the Member to debates that took place several months ago. One of the first things that the Assembly did on its return was increase pay for Members' staff. Why was sorting out their own staff, who in some cases are family members, the first thing that Members did, when there were workers waiting to be paid? Healthcare workers are still waiting for strike pay that they are owed. There is a list of workers as long as my arm who are waiting for fair pay. Why were party staff paid before those other workers?”
“It is not good enough, however, simply to blame Westminster, when parties here have spent hundreds of millions of pounds on such schemes as the renewable heat incentive (RHI), PFI schemes and austerity schemes, and when they have agreed to increase expenses at the same time as job losses are happening.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I said yesterday, there has been a significant reduction in spending and in public-sector superannuation for Civil Service pensions as a result of the changes in the workforce that have been driven by years of austerity and the disastrous voluntary exit scheme, both of which have put massive pressure on staff, increased expenditure on agencies and impacted on trade union membership. <BR /> <BR />As some Members have said, the Westminster Government need to step up to the plate. We have been disrespected and underfunded for too long, and all parties should be shouting loudly about that.”
“<BR /> <BR />Today, I was contacted by Civil Service workers who are worried about a lack of mental health support. They do not know where to go to or how to get help. They are worried about paying extra as they follow the guidance and try to work from home. Those issues need to be addressed, but it does not appear that they are addressed in the Budget. On top of that, and as I mentioned earlier, workers from Bombardier, Royal Mail workers in Derry and workers in other workplaces are up in arms about health and safety. I salute those workers for not going into work and for taking action to protect themselves. There is not a major injection of funding into the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). In fact, yesterday's Estimates indicated an actual reduction in spending. That is disgraceful beyond belief.”
“<BR /> <BR />After this Budget, we are peering at the disaster of a chronically underfunded health service, if it is not a disaster already. On top of the massive COVID costs, people are concerned about surgeries being postponed or cancelled. As I said, our vulnerable population is being told that there is a shortage of the flu vaccine. That is largely down to the fact that our health service is overstretched, underfunded and understaffed. The Budget, as presented, will not fill that void, nor will it make a serious dent in the mental health crisis in our communities. We learned today that one in eight of our young people is facing anxiety, depression or some other form of mental health problem. How will the Budget tackle that? I do not think that it will.”
“<BR /> <BR />As figures have shown in recent days, COVID is fundamentally a class issue. Workers are forced to work on the front line whilst billionaires can self-isolate on their private island. Since yesterday, many more workers from the same workplaces whose workers contacted me in March have done so again. They are worried that their employer is not taking the necessary precautions to protect them at this time and is, in fact, prioritising the maximisation of profit over the safety of staff and other people. What measures will the Executive take against non-compliant or obstructive employers? We have fines for individuals who breach the guidelines. Where is the same reproach for big companies that put staff at risk?”
“That expenditure clearly does not go far enough, however, if we consider how chronically underfunded this place has been for decades and the deep crisis that we are in, and probably will be in for some time. Increases for the Department for Communities, for example, will no doubt be welcomed by the Minister and the Executive, but they do not go anywhere far enough if we are to overhaul our benefits system so that people are not falling through the cracks. Where is the payment for hospitality workers who are losing income? Where is the self-isolation fund for workers if their employer does not, or will not, pay them while they are needing to isolate? Where are the greater statutory sick pay levels for all workers who are unwell and have to take time off work?”
“<BR /> <BR />In that context, there are, obviously, budget increases in some Departments compared with last year's expenditure. We have heard about that already. Anything else would be completely and utterly catastrophic in the period that we are in.”
“The same economics that decimated the NHS, cut ICU beds and reduced the public sector in the run-up to the crisis has seen the Executive, effectively, sacrifice public health and preside over a shambolic COVID strategy since March. As I said yesterday, the Executive wasted an important opportunity to reach a zero-COVID strategy in the spring/summer by rushing to reopen the economy before we could control the virus in any real sense. <BR /> <BR />The extent of the health and social crisis has, of course, seen Governments step in to intervene in their economies in a way that has contradicted the decades-long prevailing economic orthodoxy. Even the British Tories stepped in to pay workers' wages for some limited time because they knew that they needed to keep alive the political and economic system over which they preside.”
“That Executive are presiding over what may well be the biggest disaster in their and, possibly, my political life as COVID cases surge, workers lose jobs as a result of the mismanagement of economic restrictions, the NHS struggles to provide basic things like the flu vaccine, and we peer into a very bleak winter indeed. <BR /> <BR />When the history books are written about the turbulent year that we have faced, there is no doubt that one area of agreement among historians will be that, on this island, we entered into the crisis with somewhat of an advantage because we are on an island and had the benefit of witnessing the virus spread across parts of Asia and mainland Europe. However, that advantage was wasted by a political elite of decision makers who are wedded to a for-profit neoliberal model of politics and economics.”
“<BR /> <BR />The whole process says a lot about how the Executive, effectively, expect people to put up and shut up with regard to what advisers have told them and what they present. Frankly, the Executive, their advisers, the layers of management and chief civil servants who sit at the helm of the public sector have shown little ability for independent thought or action outside of what the Tories across the water have presented to them throughout the crisis since March. The Chamber has form in that regard in accepting years of Tory austerity, the privatisation of public services, schemes such as RHI and every other scandal that has engrossed some of those who sit in the Executive now.”
“Yesterday, I spoke about the way in which the Executive were using the current crisis to drive forward policy in a way that ignores basic processes of scrutiny, accountability and transparency. The Budget Bill was laid late yesterday afternoon. By the time that I and other opposition MLAs got out of the Chamber and got sight of it, we had only a matter of hours to look at the relatively scarce detail that is in front of us, making it, in real terms, impossible to amend or influence the process. As was pointed out yesterday, the way in which revenue Estimates and, indeed, the Budget are presented poses more questions than answers and offers little by way of understanding the financial need and projections of support that have existed over the years that proceeded the mammoth health and economic crisis in which we now find ourselves.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Obviously, everybody agrees about the importance of education and it being face to face. Does the Member have any concern about today's reports that there are at least 1,500 cases of COVID-19 outbreaks in schools? That would warrant some action being taken by the Health Department and the Executive. He seems to be suggesting either no action whatsoever or very limited action in schools. That is concerning and may be in line with the Education Minister's approach.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given that we are at the bottom of the global league table for ICU capacity and that warnings were made prior to COVID-19, does the Minister agree with me that more needed to be done prior to COVID-19, and now, to increase our ICU capacity?”
“That is what is possible; it is time for us to do it.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will end on this point, which I think many would benefit from hearing as a refreshing circuit breaker from the rank sectarianism that has poured from some in the Chamber over the past few weeks: there is a way out of this crisis, and it is not a pipe dream. When we look around the world at millions of people returning to life as normal, we can be hopeful of what is possible beyond this virus. Look to New Zealand and other islands around the world that have used to their advantage their ability to limit travel and implement post-travel quarantine while ensuring that a proper track-and-trace system is in place to track and trace the virus. They decided to slow their economies down to allow people to get well and have now successfully reopened, including holding big events in their countries.”
“Not only is there a magic money tree, there is a forest full of them. Anyone who denies that, it appears to me, would rather see billionaires hoard the wealth that they built on the backs of ordinary people than bail out vulnerable people at a time of crisis. Shame on them for backing that strategy. <BR /> <BR />There are other Members who, over the past week, have sought to suggest that the spread of COVID-19 is happening on one side of the community. One would imagine that they would hang their head in shame when, unsurprisingly, it emerged that this virus is spreading in working-class communities as a result of the Executive's approach. Past experience leaves me doubtful that any heads were hung in shame, such is their shamelessness. Let me say this: sectarianism is also a virus, and Edwin Poots is a superspreader.”
“<BR /> <BR />Moreover, it is rich for some in the Chamber to suggest that we cannot afford a different approach because the economy will suffer and there is no magic money tree. I would like someone to tell me how exactly they expect any economy to recover if they are periodically shutting it down because they have lost control of the virus time and time again. As for the magic money tree, for the First Minister in particular, here are five headlines from the past few weeks:”
“The Government in the South are very happy to use the border as an excuse not to take this virus as seriously as they should, and this Executive, or certainly some elements of the Executive, seem very happy to let them because of an irrational fear of an all-Ireland approach. <BR /> <BR />We need to get real here. This virus is taking lives because of the political decisions that have been made across this island over the past few months. The economy was rushed to open before it was safe to do so. This virus will emerge again and again if we do not get a handle on it. We cannot accept an endless cycle of a surge in cases and circuit breakers and a surge in cases and circuit breakers. We have already seen the impact that it has had on our life, our livelihood and our mental health.”
“Again today, my office has been contacted by workers in Bombardier — this is a bit of a déjà vu scenario — where there are serious health and safety concerns that appear not to be taken as seriously as they should be. <BR /> <BR />Instead, we are in a situation where it is an absolute shambles on the hill. There are those who cannot even get the message straight. They openly call for profits to be prioritised over health, and they plead poverty when it comes to paying people through the crisis, but they do not hesitate to pay £4 million for a bump in their own expenses. There is another shambles in the South that is led by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.”
“Where is the plan here? Where is the leadership that we urgently need? What we urgently need is an all-island, zero-COVID strategy that seeks to eliminate this virus. It is the only way to crush COVID-19 in the absence of a vaccine. Unfortunately, that means restrictions for a period. However, those absolutely must be accompanied by full financial support and emergency contingencies for vulnerable people and by cash injections into our health service to enable it to provide a COVID service and regular services. It means putting the focus on those who are in control of workplaces rather than an obsessional overemphasis on individual behaviour. It means promoting that strategy through education rather than the primary focus being on criminal deterrents. Those issues are important. The workplace issues are essential.”
“Once again, they will have no work to go to, but this time, they will have even less financial support to avail themselves of.”
“<BR /> <BR />What about the jobs of hospitality workers now, who did everything that they could to keep themselves and their punters safe when the Executive promoted a return to pubs opening without even a proper, functioning test-and-trace system in place? What about the workers who will lose out on payments when furlough comes to an end, and those who were never furloughed in the first place because their jobs were not deemed viable enough to save or protect? They are now being forced into the situation that they faced in the spring.”
“I feel like a broken record, and I am sure that there are some in the Chamber who would rather that I changed my tune, but a cursory glance at the number of occupied ICU beds is the vindication of what trade unions, workers, People Before Profit and others warned about. I did not want to be right when predicting that the virus would surge because the Executive prioritised getting people back to work before it was safe to do so. Nor did I want to be right when predicting that hospitality workers, artists, taxi drivers and others would be thrown under the bus by this Executive after they spent weeks crooning about the importance of saving jobs.”
“The COVID-19 restrictions that we are being asked to sign off on today are largely redundant because the virus is, once again, out of control. A much more robust approach is needed. The fact that the regulations before us are so weak is symptomatic of the head-in-the-sand approach of the Executive to the surge of cases over the past few weeks. New cases, now in the thousands, are growing by the day, and these regulations are nowhere near close to the response that we need. <BR /> <BR />That is exasperating because, like others, I warned time and again that the virus would surge because of the actions of the Executive.”
“It is important to raise those issues. I am unlikely to divide the House, but I oppose the Estimates for those reasons.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Westminster Government need to step up to the plate and provide more funding for the North. We have been chronically underfunded for some time, but that should not be an excuse for the Executive. They should be shouting loudly about that. It is not good enough for the Executive to say, "We don't control the purse strings", not when they have, for years, wasted tens of millions of pounds on RHI, PFI and austerity, to name but a few issues. Many will ask whether —.”
“A significant reduction in spending on public-sector superannuation for Civil Service pensions seems to be a reflection of the changes in workforce driven by years of austerity and a disastrous voluntary exit scheme that has led to worse terms and conditions, reduced trade union membership in the public sector and wasted expenditure. There is also a concerning increase in spending on agency staff at a time when public-sector jobs have been gutted. <BR /> <BR />The Statement of Excesses gives us another glance, as people have said, at the £27 million listed as added expenditure from RHI from the 2016-17 period after the Assembly collapsed and £17 million on the SIF programme, which, for some at least, acted as a slush fund of power and patronage. There are many other issues on top of those.”
“Resource spending for the Health and Safety Executive seems to be down from last year. That would be extremely worrying at any time, but, during a pandemic, when people are worried about their safety, that seems to be preposterous. Why is that the case? Why are we not ramping up and expanding our Health and Safety Executive? Why are we not recruiting more staff and carrying out regular on-the-spot checks to ensure that workers are safe and protected at this time? There also appears to be a serious gap in funding for student support services. It is unclear why that is the case, but it is worrying. <BR /> <BR />Beyond the financial decisions that I have raised, the Estimates contain traces of previous bad decisions and wasted expenditure.”
“We have heard about the increased anxiety and depression faced by so many due to the pandemic. Where is the plan to rapidly increase funding to provide more access to counsellors for things such as cognitive behavioural therapy and all the other mechanisms that are needed to support people in need? <BR /> <BR />Earlier this year, I raised the important issue of the £50 million reduction in funding for trusts. When people were clapping for the NHS, there were plans to strip back the NHS via the trusts. We have been told that there is a bid to plug that gap, but we do not know whether it has been accepted or when it will be. We need information on that as soon as possible. <BR /> <BR />There are serious concerns that need to be addressed and highlighted in relation to the Estimates for the Economy Department.”