Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“— the siege of Gaza. It is very important.”
“Israel's National Security Minister, Ben Gvir, disgracefully filmed himself taunting captured flotilla members, whom he labelled as "terrorists", while he was surrounded by an armed guard of Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers. Make no mistake about it: Israel is definitely the terrorist state, and the world knows about it. <BR /> <BR />We have also seen 15,000 people marching through Barcelona in recent days in response to Israel's actions and 3,000 people outside the European Parliament buildings calling on the EU to break —”
“Some have been deported, while others remain in a prison in the Negev desert that is notorious for its inhumane treatment of Palestinian prisoners. <BR /> <BR />Look at how the only democracy, so to speak, in the Middle East is treating Greta Thunberg, a brave 22-year-old-woman, who is a shining light in a dark and gloomy world. They have subjected her to oppressive, inhumane treatment, as well as bullying and harassment. As we have heard, there were 16 Irish citizens and 13 British citizens on board the flotilla. The message from Amnesty International is that the interception was a clear illegal act of aggression, and it called it "a calculated act of intimidation". The authorities began deportation proceedings without giving notice to the activists' lawyers and denied them access to legal advice.”
“As we have heard, on Wednesday evening, Israel intercepted ships belonging to the Global Sumud flotilla, and Israeli warmongers abducted over 400 peaceful activists on board 41 ships. The purpose of the trip was to deliver aid to Gaza, where Israel has imposed an illegal blockade since 2006. Since October 2023, Israel has tightened its blockade, which it declared publicly, and it cruelly denies Palestinians access to food, fuel and medical supplies. <BR /> <BR />Israel's aim is to destroy Palestinians in Gaza and bring about a humanitarian disaster; in other words, as declared by the UN Commission, it is continuing to try to commit genocide. The activists on the ships were attempting to break the blockade and to stop the genocide.”
“That is completely unacceptable. It poses a dangerous threat, and all parties, instead of shouting out as one to my right is doing, should be speaking out clearly and saying that that type of violence and intimidation should not be happening. Instead of clamping down on peaceful protesters, the PSNI should be going after the people who are doing that —.”
“I unequivocally condemn the actions of those who left a deadly device outside a Sinn Féin constituency office. It is the office of an MP and a Minister. It is an office, like my own and that of others, that no doubt offers constituency advice and support on a range of issues. My thoughts are also with the staff, who do a difficult and challenging job, as staff in all constituency offices do. I do not know how they are feeling today, but I send my thoughts to them. <BR /> <BR />I totally and utterly condemn that action. I do not know the motives of those who carried out the threat by leaving that device, but one can speculate. One wonders whether it is connected to the statement that the UDA and the UVF put out at the weekend to say that vans with bilingual signage on them would be torched.”
“If that approach were to be adopted, we would never be able to locate particularly toxic and dangerous drugs. Do she and her party have concerns about that approach?”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way. She is much more courteous with giving her time than the previous contributor. She mentioned the fact that the criminalisation approach alone does not work, and I agree with that. Does she have concerns about the amendment, which mentions:”
“The citizens' assembly talks about that. Anything less will mean that we will consign users of drugs to more decades of failure and misery. I support the motion —”
“Thanks, Minister, for that. That is useful. That is an issue, but the policy obviously worked. It was not matched by the funding, and that is an issue for the Portuguese Government and other Governments who are not investing where it is required. It speaks more to the funding not being put where it is needed rather than the policy. I thank the Minister for that. <BR /> <BR />We need to look at the models that are working in reducing harm and deaths in Portugal and other countries.”
“Thank you. I thank the Member. I have not been following that as closely as she has, but if there is a citizens' assembly gathering evidence, undertaking research and making recommendations, the Health Minister and the Committee should absolutely look at that, so thanks for that intervention. <BR /> <BR />I think that the Minister challenged the Portuguese model in answer to a question that I asked him a few weeks ago about endometriosis. I am happy to give way if he wants, but Portugal employed a decriminalisation approach and saw a significant fall in drug deaths and infectious transmission. That is important stuff.”
“Festivals have seen a 10% to 25% reduction in drug-related harm because people have come forward when voluntary drug-testing facilities have operated on-site. <BR /> <BR />Drug testing, despite the propaganda against it, saves lives. The Culture, Media and Sport Committee noted that, since 2016, there had been no drug-related deaths at festivals that had drug checking. That is really important. Plenty of other countries have moved further towards the legalisation of recreational drugs. Uruguay, Canada and Germany are just some examples. Portugal has employed the decriminalisation —”
“Medically supervised injection facilities could be established in every trust area for everyone who needs them, but that is not the case. <BR /> <BR />Back-of-house drug testing should be available not just at festivals but at all hospitality venues where drugs are likely to be consumed. Somewhat connected to the debate, all venues should be commanded to provide anti-spiking facilities. They are not expensive, and responsibility for providing them should be put on the venues, nightclubs, bars and so forth, because we have seen an increase in spiking. Festivalgoers at the likes of Electric Picnic have access to free and confidential back-of-house drug checking. Those are non-monitored safe spaces where people can submit substances for analysis without any judgement. That is really important.”
“Drug consumption is a fact of life, and lecturing people — young people in particular — will not work. <BR /> <BR />A public health harm reduction approach acknowledges that fact and operates in a different format. A harm reduction approach to drugs in our society would be transformative, especially for working-class communities. It would require formative change across the health service and broader society. If harm reduction was given proper attention and funding, which, unfortunately, it is not, front-line workers could proactively engage with known drug users to distribute essential items such as clean needles and other products. Health workers and volunteers could be trained in administering naloxone to temporarily reverse the effects of opioid overdose.”
“I commend my GP, Dr McKenna, who recently spoke out in 'The Irish News' about the links between deprivation, poverty and bad health outcomes. Too many people who are experiencing addiction are trapped in a chaotic cycle of imprisonment and release, often into homelessness, and the risk of overdose is hugely increased for prisoners when they are released. <BR /> <BR />I and many others believe that criminalisation and a zero-tolerance approach to drugs is harmful. It also deters people from coming forward for treatment if they want it. To put it mildly, there are therefore problems with the amendment, and I will not be supporting it for that reason. It also completely ignores the reality that people do take drugs, and many of them do so at events such as festivals and concerts — not just young people, but, in many cases, young people.”
“I thank the Members on the opposite Benches for tabling the motion. It is very important that we discuss the topic, as well as the fact that the state's current zero-tolerance approach to drugs is not working and that the war on drugs has categorically failed. Criminal penalties for drug possession are not working. There is no evidence that the small reduction in illegal drug use since the 90s is related to criminal penalties for personal drug possession. People who are suffering from poor mental health and addiction do not need our judgement, condemnation or criminalisation. <BR /> <BR />Drug-use deaths are almost six times higher in the areas of highest deprivation than in the areas of lowest deprivation.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I did not mention it in my speech, but does the Member agree that what we need to look at is some sort of paid leave for women who are suffering from endometriosis or other conditions? That has happened in Portugal, which allows three days' paid leave per month, and Spain became the first country to offer leave for women who experience menstrual pain. Does the Member agree that that should be looked at as well as the other, more obvious, healthcare measures?”
“I am happy to support the motion and the amendment. Thank you.”
“It is concerning, for example, that we live in a world where menstruation and menopause are seen by many people as credible reasons why women should not get certain jobs or hold positions of power. Endometriosis exposes the rotten core of commodified healthcare, long delays in diagnosis, a lack of reliable and accessible specialist services and a two-tier healthcare system in which those who can afford to pay are charged an arm and a leg for basic scans and precarious”
“Those strict gender rules did not always exist, however, and there was a time when people lived very differently. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth emphasising that medical myths about gender roles and behaviours were constructed as facts before medicine became a more evidence-based science. Those myths were fundamental to treatment. For example, doctors once believed that women's nerves were too highly strung for them to receive an education and that their ovaries would become inflamed if they read too much. Obviously, that sounds bonkers, but it is not a million miles away from what Trump, Tate and others are saying. Thankfully, even today, we know much more about gender and sexuality.”
“That is anybody's definition of medical gaslighting and is medical misogyny at its finest. <BR /> <BR />That is not to say that doctors are inherently misogynistic — definitely not. Many are doing the hard work on the ground to improve our health system for women. What it does reflect is the impact of misogyny and women's oppression in every facet of our life. It is still institutionalised and systemic in 2025. Healthcare does not exist in a vacuum. As much as it should be rooted purely in need, evidence, science and treatment outcomes, the history of healthcare is also the history of the humans who shaped it, and they were the product of the society and the conditions they lived under. The same strict gender norms, which were imposed on women and families, ensuring male dominance in society, were written into medicine.”
“That concept, combined with the underfunding of women's health research and a male-centred biomedical model, has led to a decade-long wait for diagnosis. Again, that is totally unacceptable. Without diagnosis, treatment and management, endometriosis may progress and lead to organs being damaged. Thousands of patients are on gynaecology waiting lists in the North, condemned to years of unnecessary suffering. As we have heard, many women have their symptoms downplayed or dismissed; that seems to happen across the board. Some are told just to get pregnant to fix their symptoms, which is totally unacceptable. Some are incorrectly diagnosed with IBS or are even told that their pain is related to anxiety or depression. Others are passed back and forth from gynae to gastro care.”
“That is unacceptable. Like other Members, I have spoken to women in my constituency whose endometriosis pain is so severe that they have been forced to go to A&E regularly and repeatedly, and some have had no choice but to give up work while waiting for treatment. That is forced unemployment. For those who suffer from debilitating symptoms, work, education, relationships and caring responsibilities are all impacted. Endometriosis has, in effect, prevented thousands of women across the North from going about their daily lives, something that we all, including me, take for granted. <BR /> <BR />For hundreds of years, women's pain has been pathologised as emotional or been normalised. As a starting point, we need to challenge that idea.”
“As we have heard, one in 10 women faces endometriosis, but the figure is likely to be much higher. The cost is some £8·2 billion every year in healthcare costs, loss of work and treatment, and that probably only scratches the surface. Some 95% of those living with endometriosis report that it has a negative impact on their well-being, and, as we have heard, it takes an average of almost 10 years — nine years and five months — to get an endometriosis diagnosis. That is completely unacceptable for all women across the North and across the board. <BR /> <BR />As with many healthcare issues in the North, those who can afford it are forced to seek private healthcare for a diagnosis and treatment, while those who cannot afford to pay for private healthcare are left to suffer in silence while waiting years for even a simple ultrasound.”
“Minister, you alluded to the concern about how the removal of AS levels might impact on the health and well-being of young people. Have you or your Department engaged with the Children's Commissioner, the Secondary Students' Union or the mental health champion on the proposals?”
“Ach ní leis an DUP amháin a bhaineann. Tá ceisteanna le freagairt ag Airí de chuid Shinn Féin. Tá fadhbanna le heaspa spásanna agus easpa maoinithe i nGaelscoileanna iarthar Bhéal Feirste. Sin ceist mhór ar an Aire Airgeadais agus ar an Chéad-Aire: cad é atá sibh a dhéanamh faoi sin? <BR /> <BR />Tá súil agam go n-éistfidh Stormont leis na mílte a bhí ar na sráideanna i mBaile Átha Cliath ar an mhórshiúl sin Cearta.”
“Tá muid sa bhliain 2025 agus tá crosadh go fóill ag an DUP: maidir leis an Choimisinéir, maidir leis an méid atá san Acht, tá crosadh ag an DUP go fóill. Ba mhaith leis an DUP crosadh a chur ar chomharthaí dátheangacha in Grand Central Station fosta. <BR /> <BR />Tá pobal na Gaeilge tinn tuirseach de Rialtas ó Dheas nach gcaitheann pingin rua leis an Ghaeilge. Agus tá siad tinn tuirseach den DUP ag déanamh ionsaí ar an teanga. Ná géilligí don DUP.”
“Bhí mé féin, agus mo chlann, ar an mhórshiúl sin Cearta an tseachtain seo caite. Bhí muid ann leis na mílte eile ar na sráideanna agus muid "dearg le fearg". <BR /> <BR />Fair play do na daoine sin a chuir an léirsiú ar cois. Tháinig pobal na Gaeilge le chéile ó gach aon chearn den tír. Bhí daoine feargach. Is é rud atá siad feargach. Tá siad feargach faoin easpa maoinithe don teanga. Tá Gaeilgeoirí ó Thuaidh go fóill ag fanacht le stráitéis. Tá siad feargach faoin ghéarchéim sa Ghaeltacht agus an ghéarchéim thithíochta go háirithe. Tá siad feargach faoin easpa measa ar an Ghaeloideachas. Tá an Roinn Oideachais ó Thuaidh ag caitheamh go maslach leis an Ghaeloideachas. Agus tá siad feargach faoi easpa Cearta teanga. <BR /> <BR />Caithfidh pobal na Gaeilge ó Thuaidh a bheith buartha faoin DUP go fóill.”
“There is a rich history in Britain of challenging monarchy and aristocracy, with the Chartist movement fighting for votes for working-class people. However, the scheme is very "British Government", who, in the past, have always talked about decency and democracy but have clamped down on activism and campaigning left, right and centre. <BR /> <BR />There are huge questions about who will administer the scheme. Will it be, as has been suggested, Fujitsu, a company that has gained hundreds of millions of pounds in public money despite being mired in scandal? Will it be Palantir, with which the British Government already have a cosy relationship and which has been accused of all sorts of horrible things? The scheme should be opposed and challenged. If the Government try to plough ahead with it, I encourage people to resist taking part.”
“The latter is being accused of not declaring £700,000 of public money that was gained by his Labour Together group, which, allegedly, came up with this bonkers policy. <BR /> <BR />The proposal is not fully about immigration; it is about a huge expansion of the digital infrastructure for a surveillance state, for which a huge corporate organisation is likely to be paid. This is a state that already clamps down, spies on and arrests campaigners and activists. The scheme will create even more barriers to public life for racialised minorities and those who are already digitally excluded. During a cost-of-living crisis, ongoing genocide in Gaza, climate breakdown and rampant homelessness, this is the last thing that the Government should plough ahead with. Members have said that the scheme is very un-British.”
“It is worth emphasising that this terrible idea has its origins in the days of Tony Blair and his Government, who began a serious crackdown on civil liberties 20 or so years ago. Keir Starmer — a willing follower and student of Blairism and Tony Blair — has taken his warped ideas of restricting people's rights to another level and different terrain. It should be opposed outright. If the Government in Britain want to plough ahead with it, I strongly encourage people here and in Britain to oppose it and not to take part in the proposed scheme. <BR /> <BR />Some of this is about Labour trying to show that it is tough on migration and asylum seekers. It shows how little a clue Keir Starmer or even Morgan McSweeney have about immigration.”
“The Minister cannot afford to pay our healthcare workers what they are owed, because he, as well as his predecessors, has already given the money to his mates in the private healthcare sector. Funnelling money away from the NHS into the private sector is a recipe for disaster. I urge Members to stop letting that happen. The first step to doing that is to back the amendment and then the motion as amended.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister's Department has already broken pay parity by failing to implement this year's pay recommendation when it was announced. That is having a demoralising effect on workers. The effect that it is having on them cannot be overstated. They are sick and tired of being used as political pawns by the Executive and of the attitude of, "Yes, we'll clap for you and stand with a sign on the picket line with you, but when it comes to voting the right way — to back proper pay for you — we'll look the other way. We'll put our heads down". <BR /> <BR />Nurses are using food banks. Some are homeless. Social care workers are out of pocket on travel. That is a disgraceful situation.”
“The Minister mentioned the "quantum of the figures". He tried to pour cold water on the figures that I quoted. Minister, you may wish to speak to your press team, because those figures were retrieved by 'Belfast Live' from your Department: your healthcare system. If the figures are wrong, find out from your staff why they are wrong. A bit of in-house work is therefore probably required at your end. <BR /> <BR />The Minister also talked about my idealism and my being hypocritical — he made other swipes at me, which I will take — and he said that I had "quite the luxury". Minister, I remind you that you and other Ministers have the luxury of earning £90,000 a year. Some of our healthcare workers can only dream of earning a half or a third of that. I will not take any lectures from you or anybody else in the House about luxury.”
“<BR /> <BR />The principle about criticising the fact that hundreds of millions of pounds of public money — our money, taxpayers' money — is funding an unfair, two-tiered system is key.”
“We had a debate about a very important motion and lots of reference to the motion, but, aside from the Minister, there was not one fleeting reference to my amendment. The positive thinking in me surmises that that shows that there is unanimous support for the amendment, that Members have had a change of heart and now know the logic of what I and many other people would say. However, I suspect that there is something else going on. I am happy to give way to anybody who wants to state their opposition to the amendment, if that is the case. Nobody is keen to jump up. I hope, therefore, that Members will back the amendment rather than voting against something without explaining their logic.”
“<BR /> <BR />Diane Dodds mentioned that it was not good enough just to clap for or well-wish our healthcare staff. It is a rare occasion that I agree with the DUP, but I do on that point. I hope that the Member will do the logical thing and back my amendment, which joins the two issues together, and back the amended motion as well. <BR /> <BR />Mark Durkan talked about pressures in Altnagelvin and the fact that porters and other staff had to leave, effectively, to go not just to Australia, as was the case in the past, but to other regions, such as the South, to get paid better. Órlaithí Flynn mentioned a similar issue. <BR /> <BR />We are in a strange situation with the debate.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will respond to some of the comments and address some of the issues. I will not have a chance to summarise everything, but I am sure that the Member who closes will. <BR /> <BR />Philip McGuigan, the Chair of the Health Committee, referred to his support of the RCN in 2019 when he was first appointed as an MLA. He took strike action then, and he vowed to stand with it again if it decides to take strike action. He blamed the issue of low pay and pay inequality solely on Westminster, without mentioning the fact that the Stormont Executive and his party colleagues are responsible, alongside other Ministers. He went on to criticise the Health Minister. It is not my job to defend the Health Minister, but it is interesting that there is no acting in unison or cooperation on this issue between Executive parties.”
“It is an insult to imply that industrial action would undermine waiting list initiatives and exacerbate the healthcare crisis. Health and social care workers are being forced to pay for a crisis of the system that has been handed down from Westminster and implemented by Stormont. It looks like those workers will soon be striking to save the NHS, as they have done repeatedly since 2019. They will strike for better, safer services for us all. There is no way to achieve that without investing in the workforce through fair pay and better conditions. I hope that Members will support the amendment.”
“If we were to stop the nonsensical and unethical stealth privatisation of our health service and invest directly in the NHS, we could put an end to staff shortages and the workforce crisis.”
“Would those hundreds of millions of pounds not be better spent on our overworked and underpaid healthcare staff? It will cost around £200 million to honour pay parity this year. At least £300 million has been sunk into the private health sector in the past five years.”
“Those who can afford it have already opted for private treatment, so I ask whether our private hospitals even have the capacity to take on further NHS patients. <BR /> <BR />The private sector does not train its own medical staff; instead, it poaches staff who have been trained in the NHS. It relies on the NHS. It cannot survive without it. Workers who would normally do extra hours in the NHS are paid more for straightforward procedures, such as cataract operations, in the private sector, but that means that other more complex procedures are not being done for the NHS. Those with more complex conditions — they are usually working-class people from communities such as mine and elsewhere — are left languishing on waiting lists because of the proliferation of the private sector.”
“Procedures that should be done through the NHS are being outsourced. Staff who would otherwise be working in the NHS are working in private clinics. The maths is simple: the more money that the Executive pour into the black hole of private healthcare, the less that there is to invest in the NHS. The Executive's underfunding of public healthcare got us into this mess in the first place. More of the same will not get us out of it. Relying on the private sector to tackle waiting lists is a doomed strategy for multiple reasons. Private companies with profits to boost and dividends to pay will always choose a private patient over NHS work because there is more money to be made from privately insured or self-paying patients. Some people have been languishing for years on waiting lists.”
“<BR /> <BR />Placing all the blame on Westminster will simply not wash this time, not when the Executive are funnelling money out of the NHS and into the private sector. 'Belfast Live' recently reported that, between 2020 and 2025, our five healthcare trusts spent at least £302 million on private healthcare appointments. That is a shocking figure. The Health Minister's plan to tackle waiting lists includes even more reliance on the profiteering private healthcare sector. MRIs, CT scans, ultrasounds and X-rays are being outsourced to private firms, throwing good money after bad. Treatments and surgeries in orthopaedics, dermatology, gynaecology and much more are being delivered by profit-making organisations. Those private providers are raking it in; they are profiting from the crisis in our NHS. That is completely unacceptable.”
“All the rhetoric about joined-up working and delivery has gone completely out the window, and it is back to doing what the Executive do best: siloed working and playing the blame game. Achieving pay parity should be accounted for in every year's Budget, but it is not. Pay parity does not by itself reverse a decade of pay freezes and below-inflation increases, but it is the very least that our health and social care workers deserve. We are talking about a very modest pay offer of 3·6%, which is below the rate of inflation and well below the increase that NHS staff in Scotland accepted. Failing to deliver even that paltry sum is a damning indictment of an Executive who treat healthcare workers as second-class citizens and not worthy.”
“Over the past two years, uplifts were paid in instalments, with the final instalments being paid at the very end of the financial year. A non-consolidated lump sum for 2023-24 was paid in August 2024, six months after the end of the financial year. This is worth asking: what is the excuse this time? The Executive have been up and running since February 2024. There has been plenty of time to prepare and find the money to make sure that such a shambles did not happen again, yet here we are. <BR /> <BR />In 2022, MLAs from Executive parties joined healthcare workers on various picket lines demanding fair pay. Those same MLAs and Ministers are now in a position to deliver pay parity, but they refuse to do so. They have fallen silent or are pointing the finger at others.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is worth reminding ourselves that healthcare workers in the North are among the lowest paid across the entire public and private sectors. NIPSA reports that the NHS here is the only — I will repeat that: the only — public-sector employer paying below the real living wage for its lowest-paid staff. Ambulance Service workers in Unite and NIPSA have been engaged in industrial action for better conditions and safe staffing for almost three years now. Poor pay is a major driver of the staffing crisis in the NHS. Both are connected. Shamefully, this is the third year in a row that pay parity has been broken; the third year in a row in which health and social care workers have been put in that unacceptable position.”
“I wrote to the office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister a few weeks ago to request that a task force be set up to investigate the impact of the aftermath of the Donegall Road bonfire and its potential impact on people's health in the area. Can I get a reply to that request and, hopefully, some action on it?”
“— and to expel all diplomats from these islands.”
“They backed the efforts to starve Palestinians. They backed the efforts to bomb Palestinians to smithereens. Britain —— maybe this is some of Keir Starmer's thinking — has a legal duty to prevent genocide. The announcement yesterday, whilst important and welcome, will not protect Keir Starmer or others who have backed Israel to the hilt. <BR /> <BR />In the past 24 hours, there has been a lot of talk of rewarding terrorism and whether that decision is not about rewarding terrorism. Israel has been the key driver of terrorism since 1948 and before, wreaking havoc right across the Middle East. What we need to see now is action from the British Government and the Executive to refuse to give any public money to companies that are involved in making weapons for Israel, to implement sanctions against Israel —”