Gerry Carroll
West Belfast · People Before Profit Alliance · Northern Ireland
“Yesterday morning, as others did, I stood alongside our resident doctors as they commenced a 24-hour period of industrial action. We often praise our healthcare workers in the House and more generally, saying things such as that they are invaluable and that we wish them well.”
“If we have learnt anything from the political events of the past week, it is that powerful people — powerful men, in particular — and institutions should always be held to maximum account when it comes to abuse, neglect and victims, and that victims and survivors should be believed and supported on every occasion.”
“Agency spend has, again, gone through the roof and is sky-high; locum spend has gone up and continues to go up — it has gone up by in the region of £0·5 billion over the past few years; and, almost every single year out of the past five to 10 years, hundreds of millions of pounds of public money have been pumped into the for-profit privat…”
“With bills increasing month-on-month and year-on-year, that is true, and those workers need a proper settlement that meets their needs and the ever-increasing cost of living. One striking doctor put it to me starkly yesterday. They said that they left Scotland and took a more senior position in the health sector in Belfast.”
“I commend Stephen and his colleagues in the Bill Office and the Executive Office officials, who worked closely with me to try to support, amend or help along my amendments — whatever way you want to look at it. I also want to commend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone who spoke out during the last few stages.”
“I commend people for speaking out on the issue, especially Sharon Burke. I think that she might be in the Gallery. She has been emailing Members on that issue.”
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“A "tragic mistake" is what chief terrorist Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called the bombing of a collection of refugee tents in Gaza just a few days ago. That is not true. It is a complete fabrication once again from him and Israel. The Israeli state has some of the most deadly but precise and sophisticated weaponry in the world. It knew exactly what it was doing and knows exactly what it is doing. As recent revelations about its AI weaponry have shown, it knows exactly how many people are in buildings and tents and how many Palestinians it will kill with each and every missile fired and bomb dropped. <BR /> <BR />The Israeli Government and state simply do not care. They do not care when building illegal settlements, stealing the land of Palestinians. They do not care when tens of thousands are killed by their bombs.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Does he agree with me and disagree with the Chair of the Health Committee in saying that it is not simply the case that the Minister of Finance's only option is to present that Budget but that she can present a new, improved Budget that includes pay for junior doctors, education workers and others?”
“We desperately need an alternative. We can no longer accept the erosion of pay, forced migration of health workers, compromised patient safety and the decline and gradual privatisation of the health service. In my view, the alternative will be shaped through strikes like that of the junior doctors tomorrow. It is workers who keep society afloat. Workers have the solution to the problems that we face. They have the power to shape the future. That may start with their pay demands, but it should not end there. My message to them is that they should keep up the fight and continue to demand a National Health Service that delivers on its aim of providing free and accessible healthcare for all. <BR /> <BR />Victory to the junior doctors, victory to the strike and victory to the NHS.”
“The junior doctors' strike, like that of the education support workers, shines a glaring spotlight on the duplicity of this Government — a Government who speak out against Tory policy whilst implementing it through Stormont; applaud the efforts of public-sector workers whilst cutting their pay; bring motions to the Floor of the Assembly to call for the policies and services that they refuse to implement; and underfund the health service, yet give hundreds of millions of pounds each year to the private healthcare sector. <BR /> <BR />The Executive's refusal to explicitly support the junior doctors' strike is unsurprising, given Stormont's long-term neglect of those workers. Crucially, the strike poses a serious question: if the Government cannot deliver for health workers, patients and the health service, what is the alternative?”
“Across the Chamber, parties claimed that they would sort workers' pay and the health service when the Executive were restored. I ask — I am sure that junior doctors are also asking — this: what is the hold-up? People are right to aspire to have a Government who do more than implement Tory cuts. Junior doctors are right to strike for pay and for the protection of the health service. They will not be fooled by the excuses and hand-wringing of the Executive or the proposers of the motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />Junior doctors are also leaving because Stormont cares little about workers' living standards, patients' health or the health service. If the Executive cared, the money would be found in short order. Tory economic policy kills. It kills the working-class people whose health outcomes are diminished through poverty and alienation. It kills people who are languishing on waiting lists. It kills people in overcrowded and under-resourced emergency departments. It kills the desire of too many workers to stay in the NHS. <BR /> <BR />Hopefully, we are all in agreement that the Tories have underfunded public services, with catastrophic consequences, but it is that exact policy that the Executive are following. Striking junior doctors can attest to that fact.”
“I invite any MLA here to put themselves in the shoes of a junior doctor and then tell us why they should not be given a pay rise or take strike action. Junior doctors in the North have had their pay eroded by some 30·7% since 2008. Not only is their pay less than that of their NHS counterparts but it is less than that of many more doctors across the world. Then we wonder why waiting lists are sky high, emergency departments are rammed and doctors are leaving the NHS in droves. They have long hours, crippling work conditions and pay that is barely above minimum wage. Like all health workers, junior doctors are overworked, undervalued and need to be given a real pay rise if the NHS is to survive. As has been said, 75% of the North's junior doctors are, because of pay and other issues, already considering leaving the North.”
“People's lives and the very future of the NHS are at stake if the Government do not pay our junior doctors properly. Junior doctor workers should not be forced to take strike action; they would rather be treating patients. The desperate state of our health service can be judged by the fact that those life-saving workers are being forced on to the picket lines and, in many cases, forced to go abroad to make a living.”
“I offer my solidarity to all of the victims as well. <BR /> <BR />Minister, one thing that is clear from the inquiry is that senior civil servants in Britain destroyed documents relating to patients and former patients to cover their tracks in the scandal. Does the Minister know whether any of the patient records that were cancelled or destroyed in Britain related to patients here or whether any documents that were destroyed here related to former patients here?”
“<BR /> <BR />Members talked about the Youth Assembly, but it was split on aspects of the Bill, such as the age restriction for the sale of tobacco. It is important to emphasise that. It is also worth mentioning that this Tory Government cut the NHS programmes specifically designed to stop people smoking, so I do not think that they have much interest in encouraging people not to smoke. In Britain, there has been an uptick among pregnant women not giving up smoking precisely because those programmes were cut. <BR /> <BR />There are holes in the Bill. I remain unconvinced that it will do what it says that it will do, and I would like the Minister to address some of the issues that I raised.”
“That could put people at greater risk of taking products that are not ordered or checked in any way as people, be they paramilitaries or criminal gangs, seek to fill the void when the ban comes in. A better way to tackle the issue would be a properly funded public health approach and a campaign that talks aggressively about the dangers of smoking. <BR /> <BR />There are serious questions about the legislation allowing for enforcement. The Minister mentioned powers for councils, which have not been detailed, as far as I am aware. Also, a serious problem in our society is the incredibly high rate of stop-and-search of young people. I remain unconvinced that the LCM will not lead to more harassment and stop-and-search of young people, racial minorities and others.”
“However, some of those same problems exist with tobacco, alcohol and prescription drugs, and I do not think that anybody who is serious about tackling addiction and substance abuse would advocate for a prohibition model there. Prohibition did not, and does not, work with alcohol, and I am not sure that it will work with vaping. The reason why people vape, smoke or use any other drugs will not be tackled by a ban. We need to tackle the underlying issues of alienation, low pay, poverty and deprivation, which, obviously, are not mentioned in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned about the Bill and its LCM leading to an unregulated underground market for vapes and similar products.”
“I am not sure that the approach laid out in the LCM is necessarily the correct one to tackle vaping and smoking. I say that because it is an initiative that was initially taken by a Tory Government that have underfunded health over the past 14 years and, in this place, for decades. They see enforcement and outlawing as a possible quick and easy way to make some headway on this important issue. The party that has underfunded health tells us that this is a measure that is being taken for health reasons. It is forcing charities to take up the slack to raise awareness of smoking and vaping and the associated health problems. <BR /> <BR />The Minister outlined some of the obvious health problems and complications associated with vaping. These are real and are not disputed by me or anybody else in this House.”
“— and use those workers and their skill sets for more peaceful purposes. In the interests of humanity —”
“We have openly told workers that their jobs do not have to be contingent on war. <BR /> <BR />Crucially, we believe that organised workers, with the power that they can wield, are best placed to break those factories from the war industry. In our view, those workers could be reskilled and those factories repurposed to create new, green jobs as part of a just transition that protects workers and our planet. The technological capacity of those industries could help combat climate change with the development of renewable energy initiatives and infrastructure. We think that we could demilitarise those factories —”
“Thanks, Deputy Speaker. I will come on to the intervention in a second. <BR /> <BR />What is needed in Ukraine is a ceasefire, which Sunak and Biden have opposed every step of the way. What is not needed is a further escalation of war or cynical motions like the one here today. That brings me on to the workers here, who were mentioned. When it comes to paying bills or putting food on the table, people tend to take jobs wherever they can get them. Therefore, the responsibility for the dead and the war casualties lies with the politicians and manufacturing bosses who profit from war, not with the workers themselves. People Before Profit has stood on picket lines with workers and told them much of what I have said here today. We can and do make a distinction between the workers, their welfare and the companies that they work for.”
“There is an entrenched power struggle between Russia and NATO and other imperialist interventions, which are tearing Ukraine asunder. <BR /> <BR />The reason the motion — the motion — speaks about Ukraine is twofold. First, it is because the UUP and DUP want workers to think that war is the best way to protect and provide jobs. That is not true. Secondly, the supporters of the Ukraine war have made a cynical, self-serving and morally abhorrent calculation. Those Governments that are arming Ukraine are fighting a proxy war with Russia because they have calculated that it is the cheapest way to protect their own interests. It is cheaper to arm the Ukrainian military because they believe that Ukrainian lives are cheaper than those of their own citizens.”
“Yes, but, respectfully, Mr Deputy Speaker, Ukraine is mentioned in the motion. <BR /> <BR />In the aftermath of Russia's barbaric invasion of Ukraine and despite NATO's support for Kiev, the war has been fought to a stalemate. Hundreds of thousands are dead and yet there are parties here that want more. To be clear, Russia's invasion of Ukraine was wrong. Ukraine has the right to self-determination, but that will not come about —.”
“<BR /> <BR />That has also been evidenced in Ukraine, which the motion is sure to mention. The British, European and American ruling classes are in the grips of a cold war-style panic over the war in Ukraine.”
“<BR /> <BR />At this very moment, Britain and its imperialist allies in the US are funding Israel's genocide in Gaza. Over 35,000 are dead, there are countless injured, hospitals, schools and universities have been destroyed and millions of Palestinian people are being forced to endure famine conditions. It appears that there is no end to the number of war crimes that Israel will commit or the number of countries that it will bomb, and it does so with the backing of Western Governments. Despite all the risks and warnings of a wider regional war, Britain, the US and others continue to add fuel to the fire. They know that Israel is a bulwark against democracy and the will of the wider working-class in the Middle East, and there is no depraved depths that the ruling class will not go to to protect their interests.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have seen that move before: 13 years after the invasion of Afghanistan and 11 years after the invasion of Iraq, and we know the repercussions. There are millions dead and countless injured, yet not a single worthwhile lesson has been learned by the Tories, Labour, the DUP or the UUP, because, at the end of the day, it is not politicians or the captains of industry who fight the wars that they create: the price is paid in the blood of countless, and, for the most part, nameless, working-class people, who serve in and are massacred by the armies of Britain and its imperialist allies. War is catastrophic and cruel. From Belfast to Baghdad and from Manchester to the Malvinas, the history of that warmongering is carved into tombstones across the world, and its memory is carried in the scars of the survivors.”
“It is an utter shame that politicians are using manufacturing workers as political pawns as they beat the drum of war and ramp up military tensions. The motion mentions the 9,000 workers who work in the defence industry, but anyone who thinks that it is about the needs or desires of those workers clearly has not been paying attention. The media is awash with reports about putting Britain on a war footing. In Whitehall, there are open conversations about conscription and the need to ramp up war industries. It is in that context that the unionist parties and establishment and their Tory counterparts, with their Safeguarding the Union deal, are angling to integrate the North further into Britain's military defence systems.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Minister, you may or may not be aware that Amnesty International, the Committee on the Administration of Justice (CAJ) and others are calling for a public inquiry. Do you support that call, and do you support the release of the names of all the journalists and campaigners who were spied on by the police?”
“It is completely unacceptable, and the reality for those workers is that they are underpaid for working in schools and educational settings but they do the essential job that they love while also working two and three jobs. They are working all the hours of the day just to pay their bills. <BR /> <BR />Today and this week, unions that represent those workers are demanding that the money be released for the pay and grading review. Ministers talked a good game when Stormont was down. Now that Stormont is up, the Finance and Education Ministers need to cough up the money, put it in the pockets of those workers and pay them what they are owed.”
“When the Stormont Executive were cobbled together with much pomp and celebration, we were told all about workers' pay and how it and many other things would be a priority for this Executive, but, once again, education workers, cleaners, porters, drivers, escorts and assistants have all been forgotten about by this place. No Ministers have been listening. They have ignored the plight and fight of these workers for five or six years — same as it ever was. <BR /> <BR />However, it is OK for Ministers, who got a salary bump. Ministers who are on £90,000 a year have the temerity to tell workers, some of whom earn £1,000 per month, that they must take another year, two years or three years — who knows how long? — of pay cuts.”
“This morning, I was once again proud to stand with the striking education workers at St Joseph's Primary School on Slate Street in my constituency and also outside this Building with workers who were striking from various schools. I want to say categorically that I support the strike. Disgracefully, the Education Minister sent a statement to MLAs, imploring us to support the strike's being called off. The strike will end, Minister, when workers are paid what they are owed. <BR /> <BR />In different schools and across constituencies, the experience is universal. Education workers are sick, sore and tired of being taken advantage of.”
“That would take the pressure off them when it comes to insurance and other costs and would also allow care, rather than making money in some cases, to be the main factor. <BR /> <BR />It would be remiss of me not to mention junior doctors as well. I believe that a motion on that is coming up next week. If we are to have a sustainable GP and healthcare sector in the months and years to come, we need to pay them what they are demanding and what they are owed.”
“When university fees amount to almost £5,000 a year for four years, that basically sends a message to working-class kids that they need not apply to study medicine, and that is completely unacceptable. <BR /> <BR />Recognition of our healthcare practitioners is not enough. It does not recruit and improve the retention of GPs. Our system needs complete transformation in order for them to do more than just survive the pressures of their day-to-day work. We need our Executive to supply a health budget that will mend our health service. It needs at least a 6% increase each year just to stand still, and that is completely unacceptable. <BR /> <BR />GP contracts need to be addressed. We need to start to treat them as GPs and public-sector workers rather than private-sector businesses.”
“Too often, our health system tries to play catch-up with people's health when it should intervene at a much earlier stage. <BR /> <BR />We also need to talk about barriers to studying medicine and, thus, to people becoming doctors. The applicant pool for medical degrees is far too small. In 2017, the BMA reported that more than nine in every 10 medical students in the North were ex-grammar-school pupils. There is nothing wrong with that generally — I am a former grammar-school pupil — but the issue of class needs to be added into the question. The medical profession generally needs to represent the society that it serves. It cannot be the sole preserve of middle-class and upper-class kids.”
“I suggest that, as with most things, it is probably down to politics. <BR /> <BR />In a reversal of trends across the world, Cuba tends to send its doctors across the world when crises emerge, be they natural, viral or whatever. To serve a population of 11 million people, the country has 90,000 doctors. That is eight for every 1,000 citizens, which is more than double the rates in the USA and in the UK, which are 2·5 doctors per 1,000 people and 2·7 doctors per 1,000 people respectively. Cuba also has a preventative model that stops people getting ill, rather than treating them when they are unwell. We need to adopt more of that approach to stop the car at the top of the hill, rather than intervening when it has crashed at the bottom.”
“We need to look at erasing the market principles that have been forced on health services. We should stop treating GPs as business owners and let them be doctors. It would be beneficial for the Assembly to consider the Cuban healthcare model, which has the highest doctor density in the world. It focuses on the needs-based allocation of carers to communities and has a comprehensive state-backed system that does not allow an extreme financial and workload burden to be placed on its workers. It has already eradicated polio, malaria and tetanus, and I believe that it is the only country in the world that has eliminated the mother-to-child transmission of HIV. Dr Clare Wenham of the London School of Economics and Political Science asked why it is not promoted as a great case study.”
“Our primary carers face an unacceptable amount of pressure without the resources to address it. While demand continues to escalate and the workforce is becoming more and more depleted, the real-terms funding cuts in general practice have created an unmanageable burden. To neglect and abandon the people who are holding up the foundation of our health service is cruel and unacceptable. The crisis has, unfortunately, been building for many years, and the necessary action to address the scenario has not been taken. It should not be surprising that the pressure has contributed to such poor retention in GP health services, with over one in 10 doctors leaving the sector in the past year. <BR /> <BR />Privatisation and austerity measures have eroded the capacity of our healthcare system to function more generally.”
“— interferes with basic democratic rights. It is time for a public inquiry.”
“I cannot. <BR /> <BR />We are continuously told that these are operational matters for the PSNI. Is it an operational matter for the PSNI when it withholds files of families bereaved in the Troubles, covering up for the devastation wrought by the state and its paramilitary proxies, the firing of lethal plastic bullets at children and teenagers, and arrests and strip-searching of children? The list goes on. The public need to know how deep the rot goes. Is the PSNI spying on political activists, MLAs, human rights workers and any other so-called troublemakers who challenge the state? It needs to come clean and be upfront about that. The Executive and the Policing Board cannot sit idly by while the PSNI —”
“There seems to be no amount of controversy, scandal or wrongdoing by the PSNI that the Justice Minister and the Executive are not prepared to wash their hands of.”
“We all know what the PSNI is about, but the surveillance of so-called troublemaker journalists should be a watershed moment for everybody in this Building. <BR /> <BR />I express my support for all those journalists who may be affected, reiterate the fact that journalism is not a crime and reaffirm the right of journalists to carry out their duties without any interference from the PSNI. The PSNI should come clean about its actions. It should state which journalists it had under surveillance and why, but we should know not to expect the truth from that discredited police force. The Justice Minister needs to set up an independent public inquiry into the PSNI surveillance of journalists. I am prepared to be corrected on this, but I have not seen nor heard a single word of condemnation from the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />We are all familiar with the arrest and attempted prosecution of journalists Trevor Birney and Barry McCaffrey, who were pursued for exposing the truth of the Loughinisland atrocity. Instead of pursuing those who were involved in the murder of six civilians, the PSNI tried to prosecute journalists for exposing RUC collusion. That should tell us a lot about whose interests the PSNI serves and the justice that is afforded to us in this supposed democracy. At every turn, it has used its power to pervert and frustrate the course of justice. The PSNI has been at the vanguard of the state's attempts to deny victims and their bereaved families justice and to cover up the crimes of the RUC and muddy the waters of any investigation of crimes sanctioned by the Government.”
“I want to raise the issue of police spying on journalists in this state. I would like to say that I am shocked to hear that the PSNI put so many journalists under surveillance. It really should come as a shock that the PSNI accessed the phone bills of journalists who have carried out their important democratic function of holding the state to account, but it is hardly a first offence by the PSNI. It is not the first time that that police force has targeted and attempted to criminalise journalists or anyone who challenges the ruling establishment or uncovers the crimes that it has committed. Can you imagine the outcry in this Building if China or Russia were spying on journalists in this state?”
“In recent days, I have been working to support an individual who has been here for more than 10 years. His family has been granted the right to remain, but he is terrified of being deported to Rwanda or somewhere else. People have a right to resist deportation. I support them in resisting deportation. Shame on the Home Office. Shame on the British Government for their detested, racist and reactionary attacks on migrants, asylum seekers and people who are seeking refuge here.”
“They then have the temerity to stick the boot into people who risk their lives on dinghies to seek shelter and safety here. People go to sea because the land is more dangerous. The real enemy arrives by limousine, not by boat. <BR /> <BR />Executive Ministers need to make it clear that they will not comply with the Rwanda Act or any other hated anti-human, anti-asylum-seeker legislation that is passed by the current British Government, or any incoming one. Disgracefully, last week, the deputy First Minister repeated the lie that immigration puts pressure on public services. It does not. That is not true; it is a myth. She needs to immediately retract that statement. <BR /> <BR />People here are terrified of the Home Office and its disgraceful "hostile environment" policies.”
“Across this island, we have a crisis, but, contrary to some views that have been expressed in the House, and by the Tories and mainstream, right-wing and illiberal media, we do not have a problem or crisis with migration or asylum seekers. We have a problem with landlord-ism across this country, in which hundreds of thousands of homes lie empty. Rather than blaming greedy landlords or governments, nefarious forces are blaming brothers and sisters who want to and try to come to these shores. <BR /> <BR />It is quite cruel and ironic that the people who are normally the loudest champions of Britain's foreign policy, which has created hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of refugees across the Middle East and Africa, are content and happy with that policy and are cheerleaders for it.”
“I did not expect the Member to give way, but I am thankful that he did. I remind him that we submitted leaflets to workers at Harland and Wolff that stated that we are for workers' skills being used in the just transition to green energy and away from warfare. I do not think that the SDLP did that.”
“It will be the environmentalists, the swimmers, the fisherfolk, the surfers and the workers who take up the fight to save Lough Neagh. They will be key to protecting our environment and putting an end to the system that allows a wealthy minority to profit from its destruction. I stand with all those people every step of the way.”
“I could ask the Member the same question. I imagine that, at his end, it is probably zero, but I am happy to be corrected. <BR /> <BR />I will continue with my points. The Minister should be sufficiently funding and staffing an independent EPA. It should have inspection and enforcement powers, be responsible for both land and sea and have the authority to bring prosecutions, where appropriate. Those are the demands. That is what the public and Lough Neagh deserve. We also deserve to take the lough back into public ownership, end commercial dredging and have a proper research and recovery plan enacted with urgent effect. Frankly, if they were left to their own devices, I do not believe that the Executive would be capable of or willing to do any of that.”
“I did not hear the Member's question. I am happy to give way again.”
“The Executive cannot strike a balance between our drinking water and their conservative economic agenda. Saving Lough Neagh requires urgent action and funding, and the AERA Minister should start by establishing an independent EPA that is free from ministerial interference, sufficiently funded and staffed —.”
“There is also a certain irony to the fact that the SDLP is taking up the case to demand an independent EPA. It was its Infrastructure Minister, Nichola Mallon, who granted licences for the destructive sand dredging that is stirring up the nutrients in Lough Neagh, choking its flora and fauna and fuelling the toxic algae growth. <BR /> <BR />That said, the responsibility is on the new Executive to address the Lough Neagh crisis. They continue to let pig farmers and other industrial giants spill their poisonous dung into Lough Neagh and its tributaries. It might be said that a similar whiff of manure emanates from the Executive, given all the broken promises and excuses. The Tory Exchequer cannot be allowed to dictate whether Lough Neagh lives or dies.”
“It is that people do not trust Stormont to hold those who are poisoning Lough Neagh and elsewhere to account, and why should they? The parties that say today that they want to protect Lough Neagh are the same parties whose poisonous policies have led to its destruction. The DUP, Sinn Féin, Alliance, the UUP and the SDLP have all played their part. The Executive's Going for Growth initiative incentivised the creation of industrial, factory-style farms, which have been spilling their poison into waterways for over a decade. A lack of infrastructure for dealing with the waste was no obstacle to parties here signing off on that plan. An independent environmental protection agency is needed to deal with the polluters, which had their fines reduced by the then DUP AERA Minister Edwin Poots.”
“We are told that there is an environmental plan — it is probably sitting in some drawer — that will be brought before the Executive. I call for that plan to be brought forward urgently and for it to include a commitment to establishing an independent environmental protection agency. The fact that 12% of local species are being threatened with extinction and the fact that we are one of the most nature-depleted countries in the world cannot be separated from the crisis in Lough Neagh, nor can it be understood without reference to the fact that the North is the only place in these islands that does not have a separate and independent statutory nature conservation body. <BR /> <BR />The reason that we need an independent environmental protection agency is simple.”
“The First Minister and the deputy First Minister promised immediate action over Lough Neagh, and the AERA Minister promised urgent action as well. After all the pledges and alleged priorities, the Executive have failed to take the most basic of steps, and a paltry £1·6 million is the sum that they have pledged to deal with a dying lough. <BR /> <BR />On Thursday, the Save Lough Neagh campaign, of which I am part, met the AERA Minister to make some proposals that could save the lough, including establishing an independent EPA. I am not convinced that there is an urgent plan to save the lough. The Minister has previously spoken about needing years or decades to fix the lough. I am afraid that it does not have years or decades. It does not have the luxury of time, and neither do we.”