Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“I welcome the substance of the motion and hope that the Assembly recognises that it aligns well with the economic vision that I have set out. I am focused on taking a comprehensive approach that will result in a highly productive, zero-carbon, regionally balanced economy that provides good jobs.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some of the other points related to the FE sector. Quite clearly, we need to continue to work with our FE sector. It has accepted, and I have accepted, that it is underutilised. It has a significantly good estate, which previous Economy Ministers invested in. I acknowledge that. We need to ensure that that is linked in right through our education system. It is a critical, key component in what should be a seamless education system from nursery school right through to the end of people's academic pursuits. <BR /> <BR />I am glad to see that there is not only general agreement about the type of economy that we must aim for but wide recognition that we must consider inclusion, whether that is of women, people with disabilities or those from rural or more deprived areas.”
“<BR /> <BR />David Honeyford's point about stability — I think that Stewart Dickson made the same point about political stability — was one of the main aspects of the discussion that we had in the States this week; we talked about dual market access and political stability. Those are critical in trying to develop that programme of work, just as they have been to many others that sought to reform the health service or education service. All those programmes require political stability. They also require funding. That is another matter that the Executive have to work on with Treasury. They require more than an annual budget, which does not allow for longer-term planning. We have said that we are happy to discuss how we achieve political stability for the institutions. We are here for the long haul to do that job.”
“We have to ensure that, when people go to them, we have a good story to tell, so that they want to support them. However, we do not ignore the challenges that there are across the region. Those challenges are found in some urban areas of this city, where there is also deprivation. We need to be mindful of promoting the positives while not forgetting the challenges. I accept that, at the end of the three years, we will be judged on what we have delivered against the targets that we set out. I accept that and am quite happy to be judged on what we have produced at the end of the three-year period.”
“There are other factors that act as indicators, such as demands not being excessive; employment security; opportunities for career development; discretion over how work is organised; social support from management and co-workers; union representation; participation in organisational decision-making; work being safe to undertake; and work-life balance being provided for. I have asked Dr Lisa Wilson to work with the Department to review those indicators and help us to establish the best means of monitoring the creation of good jobs. Dr Wilson will also help us to produce data to allow for more analysis of that issue. As I said, there is much more to good jobs than simply a wage packet. <BR /> <BR />I take Pádraig Delargy's point about positivity about the region. Of course, we have to talk up our areas.”
“The difficulty is that we have lost EU funding, which supported that endeavour. That has been replaced in a very sporadic and uncertain way by the Shared Prosperity Fund. Part of the discussion that we will have with Treasury in the time ahead will be about getting more certainty in relation to that funding. That is, clearly, a significant gap that has been left in the Department for the Economy's budget. We managed to plug that during COVID, but it has now been left unfilled. That is something that we want to concentrate on in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />Sorcha Eastwood also mentioned the definition of "good jobs". As she said, it is about much more than simply pay.”
“<BR /> <BR />Sinéad McLaughlin mentioned the subregional issue and Invest NI's track record on visits. I accept that that does not make for good reading. That has to change. Invest NI already has the power. Many agencies that promote jobs and the economy use their own financial incentives to ensure that government policy is met. That is what I expect Invest NI to do in future. We have had a commitment regarding regional balance in the Programme for Government for, I am sure, almost a decade now. Departments should be adhering to that. We need to make sure that all Departments step up to the plate in that regard. <BR /> <BR />I think that Sorcha Eastwood and Stewart Dickson mentioned the ability to return to work and the value that social enterprises play in that regard.”
“I agree with Gary Middleton and the many others who mentioned the need for the skills pipeline. I think that Sorcha Eastwood said that the skills pipeline will be served if we get back to the starting point, which is by ensuring that children get the best possible start, young people get the best possible careers advice and all the pathways that are available to people throughout their lives are offered to them. We must ensure that children and young people and their parents are fully aware of those pathways. That is something that I have already spoken to the Education Minister about. I am very happy to take up an area of work with him in that regard to ensure that our colleges, our university system and our schools are fully utilised to make sure that the best opportunities for our young people emerge.”
“We have the capacity to become a global leader in the green economy by developing locally the solutions, products and services that will be used around the world. We have the resources, including wind, biomethane and geothermal, to become not only self-sufficient but an exporter of affordable renewable energy. We have the strategic opportunities to collaborate across the island through the single electricity market to support those aims. <BR /> <BR />A huge number of issues were raised by Members during the debate, most of which I agree with. Gary Middleton raised points about areas of deprivation and regional balance. I am glad that he welcomed the appointment of the new CEO of Invest, who brings experience to the role, including experience of the South, where regional balance has been achieved more successfully than it has been here.”
“I have discussed the need for targets on regional balance with the new chief executive of Invest NI. Those will be aligned to a wider regional plan, which will be co-designed with regional partners and stakeholders. <BR /> <BR />Although it is not mentioned in the motion, some Members raised the issue of decarbonisation, which offers opportunities to realise policy goals, as well as being necessary in its own right. We have a legal and moral obligation to drive down emissions and meet our net zero commitments. We can and must do that in a way that creates more and better jobs. The green economy is an area of enormous potential. We already possess specialities in areas such as green hydrogen. The green energy sector will be a source of productivity and job growth across the region.”
“My Department, along with Invest NI, will work in partnership with local councils, local enterprise agencies, the business community and the community and voluntary sector to identify regional challenges and strengths. That collective effort will enable targeted action to develop local businesses and incentivise investment in areas with real regional strengths. While high-quality FDI has an important role to play, the majority of job creation over the next few years will be from our own indigenous entrepreneurs. <BR /> <BR />We already have significant assets at local level. Our regional further education college network, in particular, is an asset that we can further leverage for economic development. I think that that was a point that Mr Honeyford made.”
“Our city and growth deals provide a platform from which to grow jobs in those sectors. Again, provision of relevant skills for those investments will be key. My Department will enable clusters of companies, universities and colleges to flourish regionally and on an all-island basis. That will build on the previous work on priority sectors and will be a key driver of exports, job creation and regional productivity growth. <BR /> <BR />The motion highlights the need to ensure that good jobs are available in rural as well as urban locations, and the amendment highlights the need for targets to address regional imbalance. Regional balance is one of my core priorities.”
“Flexible working arrangements will be included in the consultation, which will inform the content of the Bill, because remote or hybrid working, along with flexible working patterns, provide opportunities for more people to take up employment. <BR /> <BR />The sectors outlined in today's motion are high-productivity industries that will improve our overall economic performance. Our dual market access, as a result of the Windsor framework, provides us with a significant opportunity to grow exports on both a North/South and east-west basis. To maximise the benefit of that unique market access, we will need to have the right level and mix of skills demanded by those sectors. That means supporting higher-level skills development and ensuring that our skills system is responsive to evolving need.”
“Evidence suggests that that gap is connected to the higher prevalence of women in part-time employment: 23% of part-time jobs are low-paid compared to 6·4% of full-time jobs. Part of the solution is more affordable childcare support, and I am keen to work with the Department of Education to take that forward. People with caring responsibilities would benefit from more-flexible working patterns. Members are aware that I will bring forward a wide-ranging good jobs Bill during this mandate. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly debated a motion last week on the importance of protecting workers' rights, and while I could not be in the Chamber for that debate, I was pleased to hear the level of support across the Chamber for ambitious, new employment rights legislation.”
“The challenge is to manage that revolution in technology in a way that supports good jobs, innovation and productivity, regional balance and a transition to net zero. <BR /> <BR />A key indicator of a good job is the level of pay. Currently, 15% of jobs here pay less than the real living wage, and that figure must come down. I want everyone to earn at least the real living wage. The sectors highlighted in the motion are higher-paying, so growing those sectors should increase the number of higher-paying jobs in the economy. <BR /> <BR />While developing the sectors, we must be aware of the need to ensure that women and people with disabilities can access opportunities. There is a gender employment gap of around 7% and a gender pay gap of approximately 8%.”
“<BR /> <BR />The ambition is to create 5,000 jobs, and some Members wondered where that figure came from. It may follow on from an ambition set out in the New Decade, New Approach agreement. I like Stewart Dickson's approach of SMART targets rather than just arbitrary targets; nonetheless, it is useful to have targets. New Decade, New Approach set out to achieve 5,000 cybersecurity professionals by 2030, and, currently, there are approximately 10,000 people employed in the software sector and 15,000 employed in fintech or financial services. The rise of digitisation and AI means that there will be tech jobs in nearly every sector of our economy, from retail to agriculture to advanced manufacturing and cybersecurity.”
“I thank the Members for the debate. It was very informative, and a lot of very good points were made. I apologise that I missed the debate last week, when I was away on travels, but the nature of the debates, particularly on the economy, has been very constructive. I hope that we continue in that vein and collectively realise that, if we pull together, we can make a distinct improvement on some of the problems. <BR /> <BR />I do not underestimate the challenges and problems in particular areas of our economy, and that has focused my efforts on trying to provide strategic focus to the Department. I outlined that vision with a focus on good jobs, regional balance, productivity and decarbonisation, and I was glad to see that, in this and previous debates — I am aware of the debate last week — there has been a high level of consensus on that.”
“I am happy to speak today at the event in the Long Gallery involving the credit unions. They have played a vital role in the provision of financial support for families and small businesses for 65 years. They are a cornerstone of that local financial support for people. Yes, they have identified issues in their manifesto that they want to work with us on. We have committed to putting together a group to deal with the issues and to trying to bring those recommendations forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />Yes, we will have those conversations, and we will continue to have them in the days ahead.”
“I hope that the company will be as clear as possible and that we do not add to the uncertainty and, undoubtedly, the stress of the people who are waiting to hear the outcome of the review. I will ask my officials to make sure that the company is as clear as possible and does not end up adding unduly to people's stress. <BR /> <BR />Our primary objective is to retain the jobs there, and if BT identifies particular issues, to try to work with it to resolve those issues. The restructuring issue that BT is dealing with is global, and we are in the situation where we are reminding it of our commitment to jobs in the regions here, particularly west of the Bann. If it was considering something that is detrimental to that, it would be going against our entire economic policy.”
“We have also engaged with the unions there to try to get an understanding of what issues might be at the back of any decisions that might be taken and how best to offset them.”
“We are trying to understand what the rationale for a change in Enniskillen might be and what it might involve. A two-week extension might create more uncertainty, but it might also buy some more time to allow the company to come at the situation in a more supportive way for the staff that are there. <BR /> <BR />If the issue is property, we will be happy to work with BT to identify what property might suit its needs down there. Whatever is presented to us as being some of the issues that are causing it to reconsider its operation in Enniskillen, we are happy to work with it. We have not got the full sense of that yet, but Invest NI remains ready to engage with BT, and it has engaged with it.”
“We need to make sure that there is a seamless join between them so that the pathways for people going through our education system run right through the three sectors that are involved.”
“Yes, there is no doubt that there have been difficulties. My clear view, which I think the FE sector shares, is that FE colleges are underutilised and we need to find ways to get more people into them. That means making courses more accessible, trying to get more resources into them, ensuring that staff are properly paid for the work that they do and that their career progression is comparable to that of other teachers. There is work to be done. We will engage with the colleges and the representative body to make sure that we work collaboratively on all this. <BR /> <BR />There is also work to be done between the higher education sector, the further education sector and the education sector. I see that. I have already had conversations with the Education Minister about that.”
“It is my intention to reinvest whatever money is saved from that process in the further education system.”
“The redundancy process had already started. Expressions of interest went out to staff, and there was a significant number of returns; there were many more than the number of places that the colleges were looking to remove by redundancy. One college also considered compulsory redundancies, and we ensured that that option was taken off the table. We ensured that there were only voluntary redundancies, that there was a regional spread and that redundancies were only from courses that were no longer required or for which there was a very poor uptake rather than from key positions within the further education structures. <BR /> <BR />The process was already a significant way down the tracks, and, in my opinion, it could not be halted at that stage, so we tried to make sure that it would not do any further damage to provision.”
“If I took the Member up right, that is the same question that Sinéad McLaughlin asked in relation to pay matters. Is that correct? I beg your pardon; I did not catch the first part of the question.”
“I find that most businesses want as much certainty as they can get for their investment decisions. Of course, the United States has been a critical trading and inward investment partner for us. A debate is ongoing in the Assembly today in relation to these matters, but anything that undoes the certainty that currently exists does a disservice to our ability to grow the economy here, attract investment and grow our exports into other markets. <BR /> <BR />Part of the attraction of the offering from here was that people had more certainty about what dual access looks like and what it would mean for their businesses. Ongoing attempts to thwart the progress that we have made only does us a disservice and creates more uncertainty. That is not the type of atmosphere that businesses want to be engaged in.”
“I had very useful dialogue with them on the issues that they face. They raised a number of issues, and, of course, electronic travel authorisation (ETA) is a concern for them. <BR /> <BR />There was a positive mood there about the Executive being back up, a significant degree of certainty being brought to dual-market access issues and the potential for people to get involved, not only in doing business in the States but in bringing business from there to here.”
“We had a number of engagements in New York, which were primarily business-focused, before we went to Washington for the events there. Some of those were with businesses from here that were out there, such as First Derivative, but others were with businesses that may be considering investing here. Some of what was discussed is commercially sensitive, so they were private discussions. <BR /> <BR />The objectives were to promote the idea of people investing here, to give greater certainty and information in relation to the Executive being back and what that meant and to outline what dual-market access would mean for them. Those were the key areas of interest for them. As part of a Tourism Ireland event that I attended in New York, I met tour operators that bring people to Ireland from America.”
“No, I have not. As I said, following our intervention — the day after I wrote to them — they extended the consultation process by a further two weeks. That is due to end next week; on the 28 March, I think. We will have no insight before that on what propositions may be put on the table. We will keep a close eye on the situation, and we are determined to support the people from Enniskillen as far as we can. BT is a private company, but we are, nonetheless, determined to support the people who work in that facility as best we can and to provide as much encouragement as we can to BT and EE to keep the jobs that they have there.”
“That was the tone in which I wrote to BT, advising it that it was a very bad idea and that it very much cuts across our strategy of trying to support more jobs in regional areas.”
“I have not met them directly, but my officials and my special adviser have. He is aware that I have written to them. They have also engaged with the trade unions representing people there. I understand the concern in the Enniskillen and Fermanagh area about potential job losses. BT is in an international downsizing exercise, and there is serious concern. It is not simply about the potential loss of jobs in Fermanagh but about the impact that that has on regional balance. We want to see jobs retained in local areas. <BR /> <BR />We are awaiting the outcome of the consultation. As a result of our intervention, the date for that was pushed back two weeks to allow for further discussions. That is due to close on 28 March. We are happy to engage with it. We will see what recommendations flow from that. We recognise that issue very clearly.”
“I would like to get a settlement this year and then continue to work in that direction.”
“I fully understand their frustration with how things have developed over the years. I have seen people from my local college on picket lines over the years. Their demand is legitimate. What we are trying to do is get, with the envelope that is available to us, an award made to them that will improve circumstances for this year and then work closely with them to get them on the right trajectory for future years. That is all that is affordable to us this year. We got an uplift in public pay. That was defined by the British Government — the Finance Minister has stretched it as far as she can — and it gives us a set amount with which to play. <BR /> <BR />I fully understand. The argument that they have made for where they should be is very supportable. I share that view and want to get them to that place.”
“I had an opportunity to meet the trade unions in the first week that I was in office. I told them that I shared their ambition to get further education lecturers on a trajectory where their pay is linked to teachers' pay. What we are trying to do with the amount of money available is get a settlement for this year to try to give people some support and agree together to set the trajectory of aligning their pay with teachers' pay for future years. That is my clear objective. I know that they are considering that offer. I hope that they take it up. Nonetheless, regardless of what happens this year, I have made my objective for further years very clear to the unions that represent the further education lecturers.”
“At one of the events last week, which was probably the most powerful, people who have done that gave their testimony, rather than us selling. They did a terrific job of talking about their experience of working here, the people and the ethos here and how those were beneficial to them and their companies. We will continue to do that. <BR /> <BR />As I say, it is a two-way street. We want to create opportunities for local companies to be able to export to the States and elsewhere abroad and to take full advantage of our dual market access.”
“There is an element of attracting inward investment here, but there is also an element, which we were involved in over there, of allowing our firms to be involved in export to the States. A growing number of them are doing that now. In that regard, the economic adviser, Joe Kennedy, has been very helpful in making sure that the firms that go over get access to the people that they want to talk to. It is a two-way street. It is not about going over with a begging bowl to ask for inward investment. <BR /> <BR />Of course, a strong part of the trip last week was about talking to people over there. It was also about having people who are already doing business here. The biggest selling point of doing inward investment is the fact that 70% of the companies that come here stay and further invest.”
“Raising productivity is one of my four economic objectives. It will require action on a wide range of policies, such as trade and investment, including making the most of dual market access; skills; leadership and management of business; investment in innovation; entrepreneurship; and a policy for high-potential sectors and businesses. I will take actions across all those areas. I will liaise with the expert critical friends that I have asked to advise on my economic vision about those actions to ensure that they have the impact that is needed.”
“We have already begun discussion and dialogue in that regard, and we will continue to work at pace with the other Departments around the Executive table to make sure that we bring forward a bespoke childcare strategy to suit the particular needs of here.”
“One that I have just outlined is dialogue with people in the private sector to ensure that that sector plays its part. The private sector tells us all the time that it cannot get the people whom it needs and that it needs more people with skills. It has a contribution to make to ensuring that people can access education and skills or move directly into work. Childcare is a significant issue in all of that, and affordability means that many people who have that responsibility cannot leave it and go back into work, because doing so would be to the detriment of their available family resources.”
“Part of the solution is what firms, particularly firms that are well established and in good economic shape, can bring to it. I also think — we have had this discussion with business — that employers need to consider how they allow women in particular to re-access work. If it is an all-or-nothing full-time job offer only, people have to make the sometimes difficult decision to leave their childcare responsibilities and go back to full-time work. We have had that conversation with employers, and we need to continue that dialogue. They have a responsibility to provide childcare for the staff whom they are keen to get and hold on to and to allow women in particular back into the workforce. There need to be more options than simply a full-time occupation on offer to them.”
“Regarding my particular interest, the more people we have available to come back to work and allowed to get back into the workforce, the better for the economy overall. It is a multi-departmental approach, and we all have our part to bring to the solution. I am willing to do that on behalf of the Department for the Economy.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I understand fully what she is saying. I have engaged strongly with the childcare sector over the past couple of years, so I know the pressures that it faces. Some of the solutions that the Member has outlined fall to the Department of Finance, and some may be the responsibility of the Department for the Economy. The lead is the Department of Education, and that underlines the sensible proposal that the Executive have agreed that we all have an input and that we try to have it as quickly as we can. One Department having its solution and another Department having a different solution is not what the childcare sector needs. We need it involved in the design of a strategy that will support not just childcare providers and those who work in the sector but parents who are trying to access childcare.”
“Ensuring that working parents have access to high-quality, affordable childcare is a priority for the Executive. We need a childcare solution that aligns with my economic goals of good jobs, increased productivity and regional balance. To that end, I am committed to working with the Minister of Education as he develops and implements the early years and childcare strategy.”
“I do not believe that we need to be in competition. It has been the mindset here for too long that we are competing. We benefit much more from collaboration. International investment is an easier proposition if you have a single tax rate across the island. I would not argue for a race to the bottom. Corporation tax reduction interests companies and can attract more investment, but it is not the silver bullet. When I was in America last week, people talked to me about skills, dual access to the markets and the Executive being in place; those were the key factors that they were interested in. I do not believe that we should be in a competition. If Invest works collaboratively with IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland, we will get a much better outcome than we would from trying to compete with each other.”
“Yes, absolutely. The visit was very successful. I spent time in New York engaging with businesses there. Corporation tax was not significantly raised; I struggle to remember it being raised at all. The key issues were the skills of the people who work here, dual access to British and European markets and the fact that we have an Executive back in place, which meant that people had the confidence to engage with us at the right level to make enquiries and approaches about their business interests. Those are the key factors. There is significant interest. The dual market access has piqued a certain interest not just in America but in Europe. It is our duty to exploit that in the fullest way we can.”
“Yes. That should be our ambition, because it would be beneficial to the proposition that we sell internationally. The way it has been presented to us by Treasury from as far back as 10 years ago — I was involved in the discussions at that time — makes it unaffordable. It was unaffordable then, and it is probably even more so now. If that situation changes, we can pursue the opportunity. However, as it sits, it is not affordable for us. I think that that view is broadly shared across the Executive. I remember a previous Minister for the Economy, from your party, outlining the same view when she was asked about the potential for a reduction in devolved corporation tax.”
“Tax is one of several factors that companies consider when making investment decisions. However, the way in which Treasury proposed to deduct funding from the Executive block grant at a time of public spending cuts meant that reducing corporation tax was not affordable. That will remain the case unless the British Government change their approach to funding public services and to adjusting the block grant for devolved taxes. In the meantime, it is my intention to create an attractive investment proposition for firms by improving skills and ensuring that companies can take full advantage of the dual market access opportunities that exist through the Windsor framework.”
“We will work with whomever we can. At the moment, it is a commercial discussion between two companies. We are concerned about the implications for the economy, jobs and the presence of that manufacturing in Belfast. It is probably early days to decide whom we need to speak to. When we get a sense of what is shaping up — we have asked for a meeting — if we have to go to London or America to talk to people, that is what we will do in order to protect jobs and the economy.”