Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“Careers advisers have undertaken 20,000 interventions with adults in the past year and have a critical role in raising awareness of the apprenticeship pathway. I welcome the ambition in the motion around setting targets. My focus is on supporting employers to create high-quality apprenticeships and helping more people to access those opportunities. <BR /> <BR />There may be some points that I have not managed to touch on in my contribution. As I said, there was quite a degree of unanimity across the areas of ambitious targets, the skills strategy, the FE sector and careers advice. The issue of Castlereagh campus was raised. That is currently a matter for Belfast Met. We do not have a hands-on role in devising its estate. Nonetheless, we are conscious that we need more support for our FE sector. We also need more usage.”
“I want to ensure that apprenticeships are inclusive by design, and that they strengthen our workforce and tackle inequality. <BR /> <BR />The return on our investment in apprenticeships should benefit people and businesses in every town and village across the North. I want to ensure that communities are connected in to the apprenticeship system, that information is readily available and that businesses are well supported to take their first steps in hiring apprentices. My Department's careers advisers are at the forefront of communicating the opportunities and benefits of apprenticeships not only to our young people in schools but through the delivery of 50,000 interventions annually across all sections of our community.”
“Apprenticeships can, and should, provide an effective route for social inclusion by creating pathways to education and future careers through employment, but we can do better. Our apprenticeships are male-dominated. I think that that answers the point that Sorcha Eastwood made. Fewer than 30% of apprentices are female. I want to see more women in STEM apprenticeships and high-value jobs, and across the full range of sectors and types of employment. We anticipate that a further benefit of all-age apprenticeships will be a better gender balance. I look forward to seeing the evidence of that. We also know that our disability employment gap is significant. Employers are missing out on talented individuals who are not able to access opportunities.”
“The existing nursing HLA is an example of a partnership approach between my Department and the Department of Health, and I want to see more of that. Again, that speaks to the point that a number of Members made about cross-departmental working in relation to these matters, including, critically, with the Department of Education. I have already had a conversation with the Education Minister about that. There will be more opportunities for cross-departmental collaboration in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />In the absence of being able to directly fund public-sector apprenticeships, my Department has been supporting public-sector bodies that want to develop apprenticeships by sharing knowledge, experience and networks.”
“All-age apprenticeships create opportunities for people at different stages of life to learn, upskill or reskill, and they allow people who want to change career or rejoin the labour force in a new area to do so without taking on student debt, which is an important factor. However, our levels of lifelong learning are low. We must explore the role of the Department in supporting training for wider age groups in more flexible ways. <BR /> <BR />The Government have a role to play through public-sector apprenticeships, and that has been referred to by a number of Members. Many apprenticeships are already being delivered in public-sector areas, such as civil engineering, IT and operational delivery.”
“I agree very much with that. What we have there is a combination of industries that are organised. We find that in mid-Ulster and Craigavon. There is strong FE provision in those areas: for the southern area and, in mid-Ulster, for the western area. That points to the fact that FE colleges are not getting the elevated status or the full use that they deserve. We could do much more than has been achieved thus far with the colleges. <BR /> <BR />I agree that everyone should be able to access opportunities, including those who have already left full-time education. Introduced last September, figures that have just been published by the Department show that there are now almost 2,000 apprentices aged 25 and above on the ApprenticeshipsNI programme, and that is very good news.”
“<BR /> <BR />That route has been proven to promote regional balance. In 2021, the highest rates of HLA participation per head of population — this answers a point made by Sinéad McLaughlin — were in the Mid Ulster District Council area, the Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council area and the Newry, Mourne and Down District Council area. We can therefore see that regional balance has already been achieved through taking that approach.”
“<BR /> <BR />HLAs are becoming increasingly attractive for young school-leavers and those leaving college. There are now almost 2,500 people on an HLA programme, studying for a qualification at foundation degree level or above. Higher-level apprentices earn while they learn, making higher-level education more accessible to a wider range of people and creating a pathway into good jobs. Businesses are working in partnership with colleges and universities to develop apprenticeships from foundation degree level up to master's degree level across a wide range of areas — that speaks to the point that my colleague Linda Dillon raised in her intervention — such as health and life sciences, civil engineering, childcare and youth work, and software engineering. We now have over 60 higher-level apprenticeship routes available.”
“The programme offers opportunities to gain a recognised qualification in a wide range of sectors, from accounting and agriculture through to engineering, pharmacy services and youth work. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to report that apprenticeship numbers in the programme continue to rise year-on-year. There was a suggestion that numbers have remained static, but they continue to rise. Updated figures produced by the Department this morning show that there are now over 11,000 participants in the ApprenticeshipsNI programme. The higher-level apprenticeship (HLA), to which many contributors referred, has gone from strength to strength since its launch in 2017. Every year, we see new employers joining and existing employers increasing their number of apprentices and the range of job roles that they use HLAs to deliver.”
“Apprenticeships bring significant benefits to employers across all sectors and provide high-quality opportunities for participants of all ages, and, importantly, they offer the opportunity for people to progress their learning and skills whilst taking home a wage and gaining a recognised qualification. For employers, apprenticeships provide the opportunity to grow their own skilled workforce. <BR /> <BR />Our apprenticeships are delivered by a network of providers that includes further education colleges, private training organisations and local universities. The regional network operates on the ground with local businesses to support a regionally balanced economy. The ApprenticeshipsNI programme is well established, with over 130 apprenticeships available at level 2 and level 3, which are equivalent to GCSE and A level.”
“Nonetheless, it fills me with a degree of hope and confidence that we have that level of agreement across the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />I have set out, and the Chair of the Committee made reference to, the four key objectives for a new economic vision: increasing the proportion of working-age people in good jobs; promoting regional balance; raising productivity; and the opportunities from the net zero approach. Those are all very much part of this debate. <BR /> <BR />The apprenticeships programme is a key tool for achieving that economic vision, as a people-centred business focused on a route to a good job.”
“That is important, because this is a very important area. More often than not, attention is drawn to division in the Chamber, yet here we have a debate that is at the core of how we develop and grow our economy, bring prosperity, create opportunity and create regional balance, and we have found a very high level of agreement right across the parties in the Chamber. That therefore augurs well, although it will not get the focus that it perhaps deserves, because division creates more column inches. My colleague Mike Nesbitt will know that division creates more news coverage than agreement.”
“If some of the approaches that Members have suggested are to be followed through on, they will, of course, require cross-departmental working. I find myself very much in agreement with all those things. The fact that most of the Members who spoke are on the Economy Committee augurs well for a constructive and cordial relationship between the Committee and I over the next three years. I look forward to all that. As I said, there seems to be a great synchronicity in that we are all on the one page.”
“I thank the Members for moving the motion and the amendment. There has been a remarkable degree of unanimity in the views across the Chamber. The support for the motion and the amendment augurs well. I detected from almost all the contributions the need to, properly and publicly, value apprenticeships and the vocational and technical journey as having equal status to the academic journey. <BR /> <BR />Everyone seemed to agree on the need for full usage of and elevation in esteem for further education colleges; appropriate careers advice for young people, rather than just a steer in a certain direction; ambitious targets, as mentioned in the motion; and cross-departmental working, which will be very necessary, particularly given the financial constraints.”
“Insurance is highly costly and insurers very reluctant to pay out for any damage. Flooding is increasingly going to push insurance beyond the ability of businesses to meet that cost. We then find people trading with no insurance cover, and that can be disastrous for them. <BR /> <BR />I take Liz Kimmins' point about households. That has been the forgotten element in all this. I recognise that the funding, which I think was set in 2007, is clearly inadequate in today's circumstances. I would hope that the Department for Communities and the Executive will be able to do something to address that. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for bringing the debate, and I was happy to respond. I hope that the scheme that opened today for applications will go some way to undo some of the economic damage of the flooding.”
“We will continue to suffer from that, right across the country, until such times as we start to meet targets to reduce carbon emissions and try to address climate change. <BR /> <BR />Others raised points about underinvestment in infrastructure. We continue to suffer from a lack of the finances that we actually need to provide the basic services that we need. I hope that that will be addressed by the Executive's approach to the Treasury to try to secure the necessary finances for public services. <BR /> <BR />John Stewart raised the issue of insurance. We do not have responsibility for insurance. Financial regulation is a reserved matter, but I would hope that we can make collective approaches, through the Executive, to the Treasury and through the authorities in London to get insurance.”
“Issues around town-centre recovery and regeneration were raised by Patrick Brown and Cathy Mason. That will take many Departments coming together, but certainly the Department for the Economy will play its role in relation to that, and with the district councils as well. Some Members referred to long-term learning. Flood alleviation and prevention are going to be critical in the time ahead. Again, those will be cross-departmental matters for the Executive. I am glad that we have an Executive back in place to put together plans. <BR /> <BR />One issue that was not mentioned was climate change. Flooding is no longer unprecedented; it has become a regular pattern of our weather.”
“This support package will go some way towards helping many of those businesses continue to trade. <BR /> <BR />Some of the points have been answered in my contribution so far. A number of Members referenced the fact that there was not an Executive on the ground to respond, and I agree that that undoubtedly caused additional stress as people tried to find someone to have their back at that time. I am glad that we now have an Executive. I take Colin McGrath's point about the lateness of all this, but I have been in office for three weeks, and we have the scheme turned around, approved, out the door and ready for councils to take applications from today. That proves that when a response is needed, an Executive being in place is the best outcome for our people.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am committed to providing £10 million to the councils impacted by the flooding in order to deliver support to businesses and help secure the economic future of local economies. A total of £1·1 million capital DEL and £1 million resource DEL has been allocated to my Department for 2023-24. Given that the majority of costs will fall into the next financial year, I have asked the Minister of Finance that funding of around £8 million be prioritised by the Executive in setting the next Budget. She has responded to say that, while she is content to approve the spend for the scheme, it will be for the Executive to decide on funding allocations as part of their consideration of that Budget. It has been a difficult and worrying time for the businesses that were affected by the flooding.”
“Many businesses that were not directly flooded have suffered financial loss because of the flooding. For example, some businesses had no access to their premises, equipment or stock as a result of the flooding, or customers, suppliers and staff were unable to access the businesses. To assist those businesses, I have agreed to a second hardship scheme. This scheme will provide a £2,500 payment to SME businesses that were not directly flooded but were unable to access their premises and, hence, unable to trade as a result of the flooding. That includes businesses that are located on the upper floors of flooded premises and businesses that were unable to access their premises due to the clean-up in the area.”
“The first of those is a £5,000 hardship payment to occupants of flooded premises that are not eligible for other supports. These include SME businesses that had flood insurance and were adversely impacted by the flooding. For example, in addition to losing revenue due to being unable to trade, some businesses are still waiting for their insurance provider to pay out, and some will face steep excess payments. I have also agreed to open up the £5,000 hardship payment to non-trading charities, community groups, churches and non-trading sports clubs whose premises were flooded and which have faced significant disruption as a result. <BR /> <BR />I have also recognised that disruption and financial loss have not been limited to the businesses that were flooded.”
“However, the scheme is complicated to administer, so I ask businesses to be patient. Given the large sums of money involved, a loss assessor will be appointed by the councils to verify costs. That process is under way. I know that you will understand that due diligence is necessary to protect the public purse against fraud and error. As soon as applications have been approved, councils will ensure that payments follow swiftly. <BR /> <BR />While the enhanced flood support scheme will provide much-needed support to many businesses, there are others impacted by the flooding who did not receive the £7,500 grant and who will not be eligible for the enhanced scheme. To help address the gaps, I have announced two new hardship schemes that will be delivered by the councils and will open to applications in March.”
“It will also be open to flooded businesses that were temporarily closed or that had not yet opened but were due to open imminently. That addresses the rates point that Patrick Brown raised. Those are the types of businesses that were unable to access the £7,500 grant. The grant will provide businesses with funding for refitting costs and replacing damaged or destroyed equipment. Again, after listening to feedback from businesses that suffered significant stock damage, I have agreed to include stock damage as an eligible cost. <BR /> <BR />The level of support being offered to businesses through the enhanced flood support scheme is unprecedented and far surpasses the support provided to businesses impacted by flooding in England, Scotland and Wales. I know that councils will endeavour to pay out grants to businesses as quickly as possible.”
“Although each council will administer its own applications, Newry, Mourne and Down District Council has agreed to accept applications on behalf of the other councils. The application form and guidance notes for businesses, which will set out the eligibility criteria and the evidence to be submitted with an application, will be available on council websites. This scheme will provide up to £100,000 to flooded small and medium-sized businesses that, through no fault of their own, could not get insurance that covered flood damage. In response to feedback from concerned businesses, the enhanced scheme will be open to those businesses that had flood damage insurance in place but have subsequently found that insurance companies are refusing to pay out on some or all of the costs of the flood damage.”
“Last week, I announced a support package of up to £10 million to provide further assistance to businesses and local economies that have been impacted by the flooding. The support package consists of an enhanced flood support scheme and two hardship schemes. District councils will control and administer the three schemes within the broad policy parameters set by my Department. The councils will be reimbursed for the grant payments using the powers in the Local Government Act 2014, specifically section 29. Councils will engage with the Local Government Auditor to test their processes and ensure that they are compliant in managing public money. <BR /> <BR />The enhanced flood support scheme opened at noon today.”
“Initial support included the provision of rate relief to around 245 flooded premises, which cost around £1 million, and the provision of a £7,500 flood damage support grant to help businesses to reopen as soon as possible. That scheme was delivered by district councils, and 143 businesses received support totalling just over £1 million. While the one-off grant payment of £7,500 was welcome, it was not sufficient for many businesses, as has been outlined here today. There is a risk that, in the absence of further support, some businesses could struggle to continue to trade, which, in turn, would impact on the economic future of the areas that were impacted by flooding. <BR /> <BR />Since taking up post, I have been working with my officials to provide more support within the envelope of money that we have available.”
“I commend the effort of business organisations, the community and voluntary sector, individuals and business owners, who all pulled together at a time of enormous crisis to try to assist those most in need, and to try to protect their homes and businesses. They are due huge commendation. <BR /> <BR />As Members have said, October 2023 was the wettest October in living history in Counties Down and Armagh. As a result of that unprecedented rainfall, we had significant flooding in the council areas there. Around 245 businesses that employ around 700 people were directly flooded, with the cost of restitution, repair and restoration estimated at over £100 million. <BR /> <BR />In the aftermath of the flooding, the British Secretary of State announced that unused capital DEL would be converted to resource DEL to fund the response.”
“I thank the Member for bringing forward the Adjournment topic this afternoon. It is very timely, given the movement that we have just had in getting the scheme up and running. I thank all the Members who contributed to the discussion. In my address, I will answer some of the points that were raised, and, at the end, I will try to pick up some of the other points that Members raised. <BR /> <BR />I shared the experience of every one of you who was involved. I was with Liz in Newry: we were on the ground, trying to assist people. Households were also flooded in Camlough, and we tried to assist.”
“Some of the other funds that we have attached to that are about flood prevention and measures that individual premises can take to protect themselves in the future, so there may be scope for expanding that further. Given the damage that he has seen and that I have seen in my constituency, we could probably have spent a lot more if we had had the resource to do so.”
“We do not anticipate underspend because, to be quite honest and probably taking the same view as you, I do not think that there was enough money in the pot to begin with. It was decided and developed before the Executive were back, and there is a ceiling of £100,000 in compensation for businesses that lost stock and suffered other damages as a consequence. The priority is to get money out quickly so that businesses can assist in their own recovery, but I would be surprised if there were an underspend. If there happens to be, we will certainly take stock of how that might be used. As the Member knows, £15 million was set aside originally for that purpose.”
“We do that regularly, and I think that it would be beneficial to the Executive as a whole to have that regular engagement with such a group so that we can test ideas off each other and share analysis of and opinions on how things are moving. It makes for much better policy and legislation when you have that level of buy-in and input into its development.”
“I am very pleased to be able to sponsor that event next Tuesday, and I invite any Members who wish to do so to come along to come to the Long Gallery, where the trade unions will present a policy paper on that area. I think that it is very important. We have the responsibility here for legislation on how people work, the conditions under which they work, the flexibilities that they might have and the pay that they may get. It is vital that, when we take action like that, we engage with all those responsible. The trade unions have a particular role in representing the rights of workers. Businesses have a role in being the employers, in a lot of cases, of those workers. Therefore, we need to make sure that we have forums in which we can engage with all of those interests and all of those sectors.”
“That broad discussion, including with that organisation, will be a regular feature for me, not just specifically in relation to particular measures that we might consider. I think that it is a very useful forum for engagement when we are discussing how the Department is doing, how people view the areas that we are dealing with and what they think the priorities should be. In particular, I commit, in relation to specific legislation that we might bring forward, to engage with the unions and others that have an in interest. We want to strengthen the role of the trade unions, particularly in protecting the most vulnerable workers, including younger people, women and disabled people, who find themselves at the brunt of the worst employment policies in society, generally speaking.”
“I have always followed the principle — I think that it is a good one and a beneficial one — of co-design, particularly for the people who are being impacted on by any particular policy area or legislation. Last week, we had a meeting where the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) and a number of trade unions were represented, along with business organisations, the social enterprise sector, NICVA, community development trusts and others. That was a very useful, valuable discussion for not just me but officials. I always think that, when we are trying to decide policy or legislation, there is much more benefit in going out and consulting and engaging with the people who are represented.”
“I have had a conversation with Minister Harris already, and some work had already been done on making sure that there is more synchronicity between how exam results work so that we can ensure that people have greater access across the island to whatever university or college is their choice. Much more work can be done there, and he has committed, as have I, to working together on that. We are very much looking forward to the formal North/South Ministerial Council structures being up and working in the very near future, and, forbye that, a lot of work will be done between the two Departments to try to make sure that young people have as much access and clarity as possible in relation to some of the courses and studies that they can pursue across the island.”
“If that means getting assistance from Dublin at times in relation to that, that is very beneficial, because, in the immediate future, we do not have the financial resources that we need to do those things.”
“The £30 million is very welcome. It is to be shared between Enterprise Ireland and the enterprise agencies here, and it will be worked through InterTradeIreland. There are enormous opportunities. There are very high numbers of business start-ups here, which is very beneficial, and a very strong entrepreneurial streak runs through the North and the island generally. Those additional funds to try to assist people and give them the start that many of them want to make their ideas into a business opportunity will be very beneficial in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />We are doing that in the same context as I mentioned in answer to the previous question: we do not have the resource that we used to have for those matters, but we can have creative solutions to that.”
“We are left with a significant hole in the Department's budget in that regard. It will be a challenge to try to find the necessary resources to support some of those programmes and courses that traditionally used that funding. It is essential that we do that in the time ahead and are creative in how we try to find support for people who find themselves in those circumstances to give them the opportunities that they deserve to try to improve their skills and get a good job that gives a benefit to wider society.”
“The colleges are underutilised. Over the past number of years, we have had quite a significant investment in that estate. We have a very good offering when it comes to the colleges and the courses that they provide. In the current circumstances, they are not fully utilised. I want to work with the colleges to make sure that people are able to take advantage of the services that they have to offer. <BR /> <BR />The Member will recognise that one of the difficulties is that a lot of the money that the Department for the Economy previously put into skills, retraining and trying to bring people into the workforce was European funding like the European regional development fund (ERDF) and the European social fund (ESF). Post-Brexit, that is gone, and it has not been replaced, despite the Government's promises.”
“We intend to try to provide support to those people.”
“I set out a vision last week of what I see as being the economic challenges here and of where areas of growth need to occur. We have stubbornly low levels of productivity and very high levels of economic inactivity. I am sure that pockets of the Member's constituency suffer from that, as do many others. We have a mandate that is shorter than we would have liked — only three years — but there are a lot of economic levers that we can adjust to try to achieve outcomes for places and people that have not previously benefited from those. I hope that, as we follow through on that strategy, we will give a better potential outcome to people who have been left behind either in the labour market or in skills and education. Many sub-areas within areas that might otherwise be considered to be affluent have struggled as well.”
“The Open Championship is due to be held in 2025 in Portrush. The experience of holding a recent Open Championship there outlines what I said previously. It brought enormous positivity, visitor numbers, exposure and viewing figures from around the world and led to an increase in golf tourism as a consequence. The holding of the Irish Open in County Down this year will do that as well. The fact that those tournaments are both coming here, this year and next, will have an enormous impact. <BR /> <BR />There are already meetings going on with officials, local councils and businesses in the area to see how we can improve on the offer, which was already very good the last time that the Open was held on the north coast. We will try to improve on that offer and on the tourism benefit from it.”
“There is a real opportunity here for all sports fans, not just soccer fans, to get the Euros here. We had discussions earlier about the impact of the North West 200 and golfing tournaments, all of which bring a very positive news story. They also bring very significant international attention to the place, and I have no doubt that, if we were able to get the Euros here, we could get the Casement Park stadium ready to accommodate them, and that would have an enormous impact, not just as a result of international exposure but through visitor numbers. The stadium itself will have an ongoing regenerative impact on that part of Belfast in particular but also on the whole city and the wider region.”
“There are things that we can control and things that we may not be able to control. Where I can control policy and investment, and the actions of Invest NI in that regard, I will attempt to achieve the objective of regional balance, particularly for the north-west. We will, of course, try to take advantage of whatever initiatives the British Government take, but they will be in charge of how those are set out.”
“Nonetheless, there is a particular focus on the north-west, and we view the expansion of Magee to 10,000 students as being a central part of that. It will require work across the Executive, but where we can effect policy in that regard, we certainly will.”
“On many occasions since I came into office, including last week when I made a statement to the Assembly, I have outlined my ambition for regional balance, particularly for the north-west. A decision on an investment zone is a matter for the British Government, but we want to ensure that what we do through policy here creates regional balance. That is the vision that I outlined last week, and it is that vision that I intend to follow through on. We will adjust policy, and how Invest NI does it business, in order to deliver greater regional balance, with a particular focus on the north-west. It, however, is not the only area that feels left behind by investment over the years. Many areas in the west and in the south feel equally left behind.”
“If the Government in London are intent on continuing to do that offshore, I do not think that that assists us generally in moving towards those targets. I am therefore very happy to talk to them about that.”
“The Member is correct to say that it is a matter for the Government in London, but I am happy to engage with them and raise any particular issues. Part of the rationale for introducing a ban on onshore exploration is that we need to move away from fossil fuels and that they do not contribute to our carbon reduction targets.”
“The Department is undertaking a review of that policy area. A consultation on new onshore petroleum licensing policy is currently live and will close on 12 April. My intention, which was also the proposed position set out in that consultation, is to introduce a legislative ban on all forms of onshore petroleum exploration and production. Following analysis of the consultation responses, I will seek Executive approval for a final policy position. I will then be able to introduce the necessary legislation.”
“It is through assistance, career progression, studying and apprenticeships that we will bring individuals up in terms of their approach to it, and that, in turn, will bring up overall productivity levels.”