Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“We are progressing that as we speak. Of course, the Department of Finance will take the lead on that, but it applies to all Departments. I expect that the Public Accounts Committee will follow up on the Audit Office report with a report of its own. Officials have been before the Public Accounts Committee to give information and evidence of progress on those matters. <BR /> <BR />We are in the middle of a substantial recruitment programme, and we want to push forward a substantial apprenticeship scheme across the Civil Service. All of that will contribute to an influx of new members and, hopefully, a much more diverse input into the Civil Service so that it reflects society as a whole. We will continue to progress that, and I will keep the Member and the Committee on which he sits updated as we do so.”
“On the first issue that the Member raised, the absence management policies have been merged to create one new sickness absence management policy that does not have the word "inefficiency" in its title. The word is referred to only at the dismissal stage, and the reason for that is that the grounds for dismissal are linked to rules set out in the NICS compensation scheme, which uses the term "inefficiency". As soon as the trade union consultation is complete and the Departmental Solicitor's Office has completed a final review of the revised policy, a suite of revised letters and guidance will be published. That is expected to happen by no later than the end of June this year. <BR /> <BR />On the second matter, I will have to make some enquiries and come back to the Member in writing.”
“As I said, there already are a number of people allocated to HR within the Prison Service, but I think that the report's recommendation was for a bespoke service. As the Member said, there are unique features there that require their own particular service. <BR /> <BR />I do not have the detail. The Department of Justice and the Department of Finance, between them, will have that. When the team is in place, it will look at the HR function in other Prison Service operations to make sure that it has a comparable approach that builds on best practice elsewhere.”
“NICS HR already has some staff embedded within the Prison Service, and work on developing that further is progressing well. It is envisaged that the embedded team will be in place by the summer of this year.”
“I believe that congratulations are due to the Member also. There has been a lot of elevating in recent days. I wish him well in his new role. <BR /> <BR />The Member's question refers to reports that were commissioned by the Minister of Justice. Officials from the Department of Justice are engaging with officials in NICSHR, which is the human resources capacity in the Department of Finance, on the implementation of the relevant recommendations in those reports. <BR /> <BR />Implementation falls to the Department of Justice, and that Department is best placed to report on progress. However, I understand that Department of Justice officials have been engaging with NICS HR and have identified as a priority a recommendation to embed an HR team within the Prison Service.”
“I look forward to that meeting with the Procurement Board to get this important area of work advanced and to then getting Executive endorsement to make sure that there is a consistent approach across all Departments and arm's-length bodies (ALBs).”
“I already had a discussion with officials who were involved in and managed that from the procurement side. As I said, the intention of the Innovation Lab is to collate and compile the outcome of the event to inform a paper, which we are already developing, to bring to the Procurement Board on 9 June. In anticipation that that gets through the Procurement Board, my intention is to then bring it to the Executive at the earliest opportunity. <BR /> <BR />We have changed the way that we do procurement policy in order to bring matters like this to the Executive for their endorsement. That gives us a much stronger place in each Department rather than procurement simply being a policy issue for the Department of Finance.”
“The Department of Finance Innovation Lab delivered a one-day insight lab on Wednesday 5 May 2021 that was designed to encourage consensus on a road map that will deliver the Department's aim of increasing social value in public procurement. <BR /> <BR />The event engaged with participants and sought thoughts on time frames, targets and scoring with a view to informing a road map to an effective and workable policy that can be implemented quickly. Participants considered case study contributions that were provided by invited keynote speakers from across these islands. The Innovation Lab report will inform a paper that will be presented at the next Procurement Board meeting, which is on 9 June.”
“No, we are not. Due to the way that the Community Renewal Fund has been set up, we have been told that the only area that the Executive can have an interest in is transport because they are the sole authority responsible for public transport here. <BR /> <BR />The second theme, if you like, of the Community Renewal Fund is town centre renewal. Even though Communities would have a natural interest in that, we are told that it is not an area where Executive bidding can be allowed. Culture and arts is the third theme, and, again, we have been told that that is not a function of the Executive. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that if the councils or anyone else come to us we will provide whatever information and assistance that we can, but it is very unclear how the fund is functioning. The Executive have been restricted to one aspect of it.”
“It is, as you said, unacceptable. It is very challenging. We do not have certainty about that position. What has been indicated so far falls way short of what we were previously in receipt of. That applies also to Agriculture, which has identified a shortfall of some £14 million in relation to what it previously received under EU funding.”
“We allocated some funding to the Department for the Economy before the end of the previous financial year to cover some of the gaps in relation to some job intervention schemes. I am not certain whether it was directed through Invest NI, but I think that the figure was in the region of £40 million. I will double-check that and communicate it to the Member. <BR /> <BR />As the Member knows, the Department for the Economy has a standstill budget for this year. That presents significant challenges. Although we have been able to fully allocate the money for the economic recovery programme that it has developed, which, undoubtedly, will involve job promotion and apprenticeships, and, I am sure, Invest NI, there is no guarantee that we will be able to replace any of the other funding that Invest NI relied on in previous years.”
“Our inability to give them certainty about funding is a real challenge. That level of funding has been lost, and the ability of the Executive to allocate EU funding against our priorities to make sure that it gets to where it is needed most has been removed. That means that groups such as that will be competing with groups right across Britain for a much lower level of funding. It is a very uncertain and unacceptable place to be. I will continue, with my Welsh and Scottish counterparts, to raise that with Treasury at every opportunity.”
“There is such a dearth of information in that regard that groups that previously relied on that support have not necessarily received it. At the end of the previous financial year, we allocated some additional money to the Department for the Economy to continue schemes that they would have received money for under European funding because nothing was coming through at that point. We have an indication that £11 million is earmarked for here. That does not mean that we will get £11 million. In previous years, through comparable schemes, we received, I think, €70 million or whatever the comparable sterling figure for that was. It is a real area of uncertainty. <BR /> <BR />As you know, quite a lot of community groups and people who work in the voluntary and community sector and provide vital services have relied very heavily on EU funding.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) plans to deliver the funding here directly, with little or no role for the Executive. It has also been indicated that the Shared Prosperity Fund may operate in that way. That would mean that our EU funding would not be replaced, which would leave a significant hole in our Budget and put MHCLG in competition with Departments and local government for projects here. That cuts across our devolved responsibilities.”
“I congratulate the Member on her elevation in recent days. The launch date for the Shared Prosperity Fund has been continually pushed back. Although a prospectus has been promised by the summer, I do not expect to have any detail on quantum until the next Westminster spending review. We have been promised a governance role for the fund, but we have no detail of that role. My officials continue to push for involvement in the development and delivery of the fund and for respect for our devolved competence. <BR /> <BR />A pilot scheme for the Shared Prosperity Fund has been launched under the name Community Renewal Fund. The £11 million that has been set aside for projects here under that fund is considerably less than the approximately €70 million per annum that we previously received from comparable EU structural funds.”
“As I said, the Department is working through three schemes of business support. We expect that payments from that particular scheme should begin by the end of the month and flow through from there on in.”
“I know from talking to businesses how important all that support has been in sustaining jobs during the COVID crisis.”
“COVID-funded support to businesses administered by my Department since the start of the pandemic included the rates holiday, the £10,000 grants to small businesses, the localised restrictions support scheme (LRSS) and the three schemes that I recently announced to use up unspent funding. In total, my Department is anticipated to spend just over £1 billion in business support. For a Department that does not usually administer grant support to businesses, that is a tremendous achievement, and I thank Land and Property Services (LPS) for stepping up during the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />The Department for the Economy has spent £494·9 million on business support. Of that, some £200 million has been administered by the Department of Finance, bringing the total administered by my Department to over £1·2 billion.”
“I raised that concept at the recent round table with the banks and asked for their views on whether they would sit on the forum. Although they did not provide a clear position, and membership would be voluntary, I continue to press the local banks on the merits of such a forum.”
“Yes, I have. As well as meeting the banks, I met the Financial Services Union on a range of issues, including its call for the establishment of a banking forum to discuss the future of banking in the South and here in the North. I indicated that I was supportive of that in principle. My officials are considering the proposals for a forum and are giving it further consideration to understand the particular practicalities of how it might work here. <BR /> <BR />In addition, my officials are engaging with the Financial Services Union to further understand the position of the Irish Government. This is an opportunity for all stakeholders to get involved in the discussion to consider the key issues facing the local banking sector.”
“The very discussion that we had at the round table was about the need to continue to support the loan scheme that came from Treasury. I know that Treasury had been considering further flexibilities for paying that back as people began to earn, rather than attaching it to a time frame, and we continue to talk to Treasury about that. However, as I said, there needs to be that recognition that these are very challenging times, that businesses will need support to get back to full trading again, that it will be some time before that is achievable, and that the banks and other financial institutions have a role in that, just as we had a role in their difficulties.”
“They have to recognise that the globe is going through a very challenging economic time and that financial institutions have a part to play in that, as the citizens had a part to play when the financial institutions were in trouble.”
“Alison Rose, the CEO, assured me of the bank's commitment to support its customers and colleagues. She advised that Ulster Bank's business in the North is unaffected by the withdrawal of Ulster Bank from the South. An orderly phased withdrawal of Ulster Bank in the South will take place over a number of years. There will be no new compulsory departures or branch closures from the businesses this year as a result of the announcement, and we will closely monitor that situation. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the regulation and the authority over the financial services lies in London, and in Dublin for those who are south of the border, but we will continue to engage and to press and remind these institutions that they have a responsibility to people and to businesses.”
“There are real challenges. <BR /> <BR />Banks make commercial decisions in the interests of their corporations, but they have a responsibility, particularly in the challenging economic times that we face and given that, when they faced challenging times, it was the state, North and South, that bailed them out and kept them afloat, to ensure that they continue to provide services to the people whom we all represent, businesses and others. I will continue to engage with them in that regard in the time ahead.”
“The Member has possibly mistaken my leading on financial services for leading on a matter that we do not regulate. We do not regulate the banks. That power lies in Westminster. I do not have the authority to dictate or control what those private corporations do. What I can do and have done is to raise issues of concern with them. It is also primarily an issue of concern for the Department for the Economy. I have met the banks. I have had a round-table meeting with them and pressed them on the need to continue services, particularly over the course of the pandemic. I have pressed them — indeed, the Bank of Ireland — on the loss of services in rural areas. There is an expectation that post offices or others can pick up those services when, clearly, in relation to benefits, that is not the case for a large number of them.”
“Regulation of financial services is a reserved matter for the British Government, and there is a limited role that my Department can play. However, I engage regularly with local banks and trade union representatives on local services and jobs matters. <BR /> <BR />I last called senior representatives from the local banks to a round-table meeting on 24 March, where I pressed them on the need to protect the services that they provide to citizens and businesses in the North and the jobs that go with them. Separately, I met the Bank of Ireland in February to discuss its planned branch closures. Earlier that month, I wrote to the CEO of NatWest to raise my concerns about the closure of Ulster Bank in the South and the impact of that on the staff in the North who service those operations.”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I trust that Members will show the necessary support for the order. I particularly thank the Committee Chair — as others have, I wish him well in whatever lies ahead for him — the Committee itself and the Committee staff for their work on the order. I look forward to working with them on the wider rating issues over the remainder of the mandate.”
“Of course, particularly during the pandemic, as I said, online became more popular when retail was closed down. However, rates can be assessed only on the size of a property; you cannot assess them on the basis of what business is done. Therefore, actually, the issue that the Member raises is a taxation issue. It would be something else if the Government in London decided to place more tax on online businesses in order to try to create some balance between what online and high-street retailers pay in property tax. However, rates and the issues that we are debating can only take account of the physical size of a property and apply a tax according to that size. Of course, there are reliefs built in as well, but the issue that the Member raises is definitely a taxation issue. We will continue to talk to the Treasury about that.”
“<BR /> <BR />Andrew Muir, who has left the Chamber, raised the issue of the review. The review is not conducted by LPS on its own; it is done in consultation with all the business organisations. A range of the matters raised were taken on board from the previous review. As he said, there is a revaluation exercise and a commitment to do those more frequently. When there is such a gap between them, the revaluations can be quite traumatic and difficult for businesses. The more frequent the revaluations, the less of a shift in what certain businesses pay. <BR /> <BR />Andrew and others raised the issue of online business.”
“Faced with the twin effects of Brexit and the pandemic, those things need to be very carefully considered with the information that we have available. <BR /> <BR />As some Members pointed out, the fiscal commission will be useful this year. We could have done with one many years back, as Scotland and Wales have. Certainly, in this year, we must use what limited resources we have to support businesses and jobs. This is not just about business people; it is about the jobs that are created and the families that rely on those businesses. We need to supplement as best we can public services, which have already suffered from eight or nine years of Tory austerity. I think that the fiscal commission to look at the overall finances and the fiscal council, which will examine public spend, will be important in the year ahead.”
“I thank all who have contributed to the debate. As I stated, the Rates (Regional Rates) Order 2021 gives effect to decisions that were made as part of the Executive's 2021-22 Budget, the wider detail of which was presented to the Assembly on 27 April. The Executive's aim continues to be to strike the correct balance between meeting the needs of ratepayers during what will be a challenging long-term economic environment and ensuring that public finances are sufficient to cover the priorities that we have set ourselves beyond the pandemic. A number of Members correctly highlighted that in their contribution: the economic challenges, as opposed to the revenue that we need to raise in order to support public services. That is the balance to be struck at any time but particularly at such an uncertain time.”
“Article 3 specifies 27·9p in the pound as the non-domestic regional poundage that is to be levied on rateable net annual values and 0·4574p in the pound as the domestic regional rate poundage that is to be levied on rateable capital values. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to hearing Members' comments. I commend the order to the Assembly.”
“It is welcome that councils adopted a similar approach to that of the Executive, keeping their district rates as low as possible, given the need to shelter homes and businesses from the economic impact of the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to technical matters. The main purpose of the order is to give effect to the poundage decisions that have already been made during the Executive's Budget process by specifying the regional rate poundage for 2021-22. Article 1 sets out the title of the order and gives the operational date as the day after it is affirmed by the Assembly. Article 2 provides that the order will apply for the 2021-22 rating year through to 31 March 2022.”
“Taken together, the domestic and non-domestic regional rates that have been set by today's order account for approximately £690 million to the Executive, before the effect of the rates holiday is taken account. That revenue supplements the Executive's block grant and facilitates more expenditure on our health service and on roads, schools, infrastructure and other essential public services. <BR /> <BR />The regional rate represents just over half of a typical rates bill, with the other half made up of the district rate that is set independently by councils. In total, the rating system is designed to contribute over £1·3 billion to Executive and council funding. My Department has also introduced measures to allow more time for councils to set their 2021-22 rates and to allow greater local flexibility to councils in rate setting.”
“We already have relatively low domestic charges, and maintaining that low charge will help household budgets. To give ratepayers a two-month break in payments, I have decided to delay again the issuing of rate bills. That will help many ratepayers whose incomes are still being affected by the pandemic.”
“That is why, last year, I provided all business ratepayers with an 18% reduction in the non-domestic regional rate. The order keeps that reduction in place for another year. <BR /> <BR />The capacity of many companies to pay rates has been further undermined by the pandemic. COVID created the prospect risk of widespread business closures and, with that, the loss of jobs. Therefore, last year, I provided the sectors hardest hit by the pandemic with a rates holiday. I have allocated £230 million this year to continue that rates holiday for another year. <BR /> <BR />These measures will help to sustain businesses and the jobs that they provide. Likewise, the freeze on domestic poundage for the second year in a row will be vital to household ratepayers.”
“This annual order is brought about following the Executive's agreement to the 2021-22 Budget, which I outlined to the Assembly in my statement on 27 April. <BR /> <BR />Today's order sets the two separate regional rate in the pound figures for 2021-22. One applies to households; the other applies to businesses. In setting the rates, the Executive have to consider the impact on business and household finances and the impact on the level of revenue raised for public services. <BR /> <BR />For the second year in a row, rates are being set in the shadow of COVID-19. The pandemic has had a devastating impact on the economy and on the cash flow of businesses. The relatively high level of commercial rates was already a key concern for businesses, many of which are very small and locally managed.”
“Further meetings have taken place with the trade unions since then, and a final offer was put to them on 13 April. We expect to hear back from them. I say, again, that that is in stark contrast to the approach taken in Britain, where a pay freeze has been imposed for one year, and, on the basis of previous experience, I expect that position to continue. We have ensured that there will continue to be an increase for public-sector workers here.”
“The Department has made a two-year pay offer to Civil Service trade unions. That represents a 4·8% increase in the pay bill for the Civil Service over two years, at a cost of £44 million. The offer is in contrast to the position in England, where, as the Member mentioned, there was the 1% for health workers, but he will know that there is a pay freeze for all other public-sector workers. We have not gone that route; we have gone with a pay increase for our public-sector workers here. That is the maximum amount possible, taking account of the standstill Budget that we received from Westminster, the current financial pressures and the need to ensure that increases are affordable, while ensuring that a sufficient budget is available for essential public services. That offer was agreed by the Executive on 16 March.”
“As an Irish republican, I see no role for myself in celebrating partition on the island, but I recognise that there are people here who see it as something to celebrate. I have no difficulty with how they propose to celebrate, as long as they do so within the law and without annoying anyone else. The Member has answered his own question, in that the Budget is based on Departments identifying their pressures and trying to meet those pressures. I have no recollection of any bids for that. I know that the NIO intends to provide funding for centenary celebrations and those who wish to engage in them, but I have had no such request. Therefore, it is not included.”
“The community renewal fund is to provide £220 million of additional funding across Britain and here in preparation for the introduction of the Shared Prosperity Fund. However, there are no guarantees about what future amount might come to the North from that. We have continued to suffer from a lack of information in that regard, and I continue to be concerned that the prospect of having the full replacement of EU funding that had been available to us through some of the funds that the Member mentioned will not be realised in the time ahead.”
“We have set aside money for the Health Department as it analyses its needs, and, when it comes back with an assessment, funding will, hopefully, be available. I look forward to having, as early as possible, an assessment of the mental health requirements. It will be difficult work, as we are just beginning to emerge from the situation and have not yet seen the full effects of lockdown on people. However, I look forward to an early assessment, and I hope that, when we make an assessment of what COVID money is left, we have support to put it across the range of Departments that have an interest in the matter.”
“The Member is correct in that it is not the responsibility of any single Department. In promoting things like the Engage programme, the Department of Education has recognised that substantial work is needed to get young people back into the schooling rhythm and make sure that some of the loss, which is not just the educational loss but the loss of social contact, that has been experienced over the last number of months is engaged with. <BR /> <BR />The Member will know that the Executive have a subcommittee on mental health and resilience, so it is recognised in the Executive that it is a cross-departmental responsibility. It is not for Health, Communities or Education on their own or even collectively, as other Departments are involved in the subcommittee.”
“We have done that by trying to target some of the additional money that we have given out. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to visit a medium-sized manufacturing company that had not received any grant support. We have targeted something like 850 businesses in that sector for the £25,000 grant. <BR /> <BR />It is incumbent on us to use that money, channel it as much as we can to people who did not receive it, make sure that it is delivered efficiently and learn lessons. Inevitably, as we tried to do things at pace during the last year, we made mistakes. We need to learn from some of those mistakes, get a more efficient and targeted delivery and ensure that people get the full benefit of the restricted amount of money that we have this year in comparison with last year.”
“As the Member will know, the localised restrictions support scheme (LRSS) and some of the other schemes are coming to an end. They will continue, largely, until the indicative date for the full reopening of hospitality and retail on 24 May. Thankfully, that is the direction that we are moving in. Certainly, from my Department's perspective, the sooner we are out of the grant-giving work, which was not the natural position of the Department, and get back to concentrating on some of our main functions, the better for us. <BR /> <BR />We understand that businesses will continue to struggle. Even as the economy reopens, we are still in the middle phase, if you like, of moving out of COVID, so there will still be restrictions. We need to ensure that lessons are learned from some of the schemes that we had over the last year or so.”
“It will not necessarily flow through immediately as non-essential retail opens up again next week; it is about bringing it in at the most effective time of the year, perhaps when there might be a dip again in spending on the high street. <BR /> <BR />It is a significant intervention, but the COVID money is one-off money and needs to have the maximum impact. I am sure that business organisations and chambers of commerce throughout the various towns will talk to the Department for the Economy about when, they feel, would be the most effective time to spend that money out.”
“The bid from the Department for the Economy was funded in full and included a number of interventions, one of which was the high street voucher scheme. Initially, the discussion was around £90 million: it is now up to in and around £140 million. It will be a question of timing for the Department when it will bring it forward. Clearly, with retail not being open or opening with the necessary continuing restrictions in the time ahead, the question will be about the timing of that intervention. I know from having discussed it with business organisations that they want to talk to the Department for the Economy about that timing.”
“The Minister of Justice will be able to provide the exact figures, but I understand that it will be an increase in staff.”
“Again, the detail of the numbers is more for the Department of Justice to respond on. There was concern that the loss of money for Brexit that had previously been provided would see a reduction in staff. I understand that the Department of Justice wants to ensure that that does not happen and to see, as was committed to in NDNA, an increase in policing personnel. I am advised that this is to assist in getting to that objective. It does not bring it up to the full level, but, of course, recruitment is a progressive issue. You cannot just recruit 700 new personnel in one fell swoop. It was, as the Member will know, part of discussions between the draft Budget and the final Budget outcome to try to give additional support to the Department of Justice to move towards those targets for additional staff.”
“Those public service routes are hugely important to the north-west region as a whole, and we commit to continue supporting them and to try to find the necessary support in the Executive to ensure that the airport continues its business.”