Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“The Member makes a very valid point in relation to that. There are many lessons from the pandemic, and one of them is about security of the supply chain. The idea that "Cheap is best" means that you end up on the other side of the world trying to procure critical materials for the health service. Then, if there is a pandemic situation or some other unforeseen situation, we are left in a position where we do not have access to things that our population very badly needs. <BR /> <BR />Regarding the £175 million figure, Treasury made an allowance that, if money was being spent on PPE, it could be allocated in the last financial year but spent in this financial year. That is why we were able to allocate a significant sum to that.”
“I suppose that it is easier for most Departments to go for the easier source rather than to apply for it. <BR /> <BR />It is something that we have improved on. Even with all of the priority attached to the pandemic in every Department and the bandwidth that has been taken up with that response, there is an improvement. We will continue to press for a full understanding of how it can be accessed, what it can be spent on and what Departments need to come forward with. The rates are favourable. It is an asset, if you like — pardon the pun — that is available to the Executive. We have done better this year with it, but we are still surrendering some of it. We do not want to be in a position where we are not utilising things that are available to us.”
“It could be a combination of those things. I do not think that there was, over the last number of years —. There was a much bigger return of financial transactions capital last year. It is a complex process, and therefore Departments try, in the first instance, to get straightforward capital for the projects that they want to do. When I was pressing Departments and Ministers over the last number of months to access this, some came forward with schemes, but some of them did not fit. That maybe points to Departments being not fully sure. The assets themselves have to have a time span of at least 25 years, so it cannot be spent on short-term repair work or short-term facilities. They have to be facilities with that type of time frame. It is much more restrictive than a straightforward bid for capital.”
“We expected, right up until the year of last year, that that is where we would be, and we had very short notice that we were into a one-year Budget again with a flat-cash situation. We will continue to engage with Treasury on that, and I know from speaking to my counterparts in Scotland and Wales that we are all on the same script in pressing for that outcome.”
“It would be much more efficient if we were in a multi-annual Budget situation and could plan over that time and allocate accordingly to make sure that there is a more strategic approach to the spending of public funds than, perhaps, a rush at the end of the year to spend what is left. It is not ideal. The bigger sin, I suppose, is if we end up not spending it and giving it back, so it has to be spent on projects that, although they are not wrong, would perhaps not be a priority if we were in a much broader strategic framework. It is more about the things that are ready to go and are can be spent on. <BR /> <BR />Of course, that is the situation that we want to be in, and we will continue to press Treasury to get us to that situation.”
“That is the perennial question. If we were in a multi-annual Budget situation aligned to a Programme for Government, we would get planned spending over a number of years. That is where we want to be. That is where, we were told over the last year, we would be following the comprehensive spending review, but that is not in our hands. The time frame of the budgets and the funding allocation itself are not in our hands, so you end up having to respond. In an annual Budget setting, the biggest sin for a Finance Minister or an Executive is not spending out. It is not ideal. <BR /> <BR />I would not say that we are spending on the wrong projects, but it does not necessarily align with long-term spending plans.”
“There were a number of surrenders, and that meant that we had to try to reallocate as we went along. It was an open-ended process for Departments to bid, so, when we got a significant number of bids and allocated the funding, we did a written statement. We did that right up until the last allocation, which was the one that we took to try, as a contingency plan, to use up what was left at that stage. That was on 25 March. The statements are there. It is a matter of adding each figure from the tables in each of the four statements and calculating the total.”
“I think that it is in the table. I am not sure that I have the exact figure to hand. It is broken down across a number of statements. With the four opportunities, it was, if you like, an open-ended opportunity for Departments to bid for money and to surrender money that they were not going to spend. For instance, in the statement on 2 February, there was £7·9 million, and then, in my last written statement in March, there was £7·2 million. Sorry, that was capital. I can get the total figure for the Member, but I think that there was £10 million and £21 million over the course of those four statements. <BR /> <BR />The Member asked about opportunities. We did some allocations, sent in a written statement and said at that time that we would do a complete statement and a question-and-answer session when that exercise was completed.”
“We were told that that would be case and that HMRC was treating it as a gift and would tax it, so we provided additional funding to cover that to make sure that people got the £500. That is our contribution, if you like, and the Health Department is then responsible for paying out. The update would need to come from the Health Minister.”
“We made that funding available for the Health Minister's bid. He then asked us to engage with Treasury and DWP in London to see whether that would be taxed and whether, at the lower end, people would lose benefits as a consequence of the payment.”
“As a consequence, I hope to see some support going to the high street, as well as to tourism and hospitality. <BR /> <BR />We do not have anything like the amount of COVID money that we had last year. We are trying to continue providing support as best we can, but, next year, we will have a standstill Budget, with a limited amount of COVID money compared with last year. We will still try to give what support we can, but that will definitely happen in the context of much less generous financial circumstances.”
“We recognise that we are only in the middle phase of moving towards reopening, so there will still be mitigations and restrictions around how many people are allowed in premises and how those premises can do business, but those payments are tied to health regulations, which means that there is no basis for paying them out once premises reopen. <BR /> <BR />In response to the previous question, we will continue with the rates holiday for a full year, through to next April. That is of huge benefit to tourism and hospitality, and to retail in particular. We recognise that businesses will continue to struggle. That is why, as part of the COVID money for next year, I funded in full the bid from the Minister for the Economy for the economic recovery package.”
“The LRSS and probably the Department for the Economy's COVID restrictions business support scheme are governed by health regulations. That means that they can continue to be paid only if businesses are closed or very severely impacted on. For instance, we continue to pay retail businesses when they can offer click and collect and to pay hospitality businesses even though some outdoor opening will be allowed not this weekend but the weekend after. We will continue to pay those supports until all hospitality can open.”
“We are therefore turning around revaluation exercises much quicker. We will continue to engage with businesses, and if LPS can get back to doing what it does, which is managing the rates rather being the grant-giving agency that it has ended up being for most of the past year and will continue to be in the short to medium term ahead, we will be able to have a sensible discussion with business sectors in the time ahead to try to get a better outcome on rates for everyone.”
“There has already been significant action taken. That has probably been missed in the course of all the rates holidays and rate relief, which I am glad that we have been able to extend for a full year, meaning that those businesses will have two full years without paying rates. Over the past year, I have carried out frequent engagements with businesses and business organisations, and that was one of their big asks. We were able to deliver on that, which has been gratefully received. That masked the fact, however, that there was effectively an 18% reduction in non-domestic rates in last year's Budget. That was a very significant reduction. <BR /> <BR />We continue to look at bringing forward revaluation exercises to make sure that there is no gap or huge change, instead of leaving them sitting for a number of years.”
“There are strict parameters around how it can be spent, over what lifespan it can be spent and what assets it can be spent on, but it is an improving picture. If we get more space and time and move to a multi-annual budget, we will have a much better approach to spending out FTC.”
“One area where we had sought to use it most related to the changeover arrangements in the Housing Executive. It came late in the year. Obviously, everything that Departments were doing was knocked sideways by the response to the pandemic. Our ambitions at the start of the year did not get the time and space to be fully developed. The Member is right: if we go into a multi-annual-Budget situation, we would have a better handle on it. I believe that there was a better approach to FTC this year than, perhaps, in previous years. We want that to improve and continue, because the amount that is available to us and the payback for Departments are fairly favourable.”
“There is a provision to carry over some FTC, so it will not be the full figure of £55 million. I think that there is a figure of £29·2 million under the Budget exchange scheme that can be carried forward under FTC. Therefore, £55 million minus that figure is the amount that would be surrendered to Treasury. As the Member knows, financial transactions capital comes with a set of conditions attached and restrictions on how it can be spent. Therefore, it is not a straightforward matter of spending out capital money. <BR /> <BR />We encouraged Departments to come forward in the latter part of the year. Indeed, a number of Departments did so. Education and Infrastructure were looking at schemes. The Health Department looked at schemes that just did not make it.”
“We will assess that as part of the provisional out-turn later this year. Therefore, I do not anticipate handing any funding back. We still have some headroom in the normal Budget exchange scheme to carry over resource DEL, should that be required. We had conversations with Departments when they bid for money late in the year to ensure that they could spend that out. We expect that to be the case.”
“Our objective was to ensure that it was allocated, and it sometimes is. As the Chair and Deputy Chair acknowledged, it was a significant challenge to ensure that the additional £3·3 billion was spent out on top of the budgets that we had last year. It came in a haphazard fashion, which made that complicated. The lockdown restrictions changed and eased, and, then, they changed and went from lockdowns in council areas to a full lockdown of the Six Counties. It was a complicated process to try to get through. Nonetheless, we have allocated all available COVID-19 funding and have been assessing the position with regard to spending that right up until the last number of weeks of the financial year. I am confident that all Ministers who bid for that money have been making all efforts to ensure that it is spent.”
“The £51 million was a carry-over. We knew that we were spending out in this financial year, but we also knew that the effect of COVID and the need for LRSS support would go into the new financial year and would, obviously, still be paid out and will be until at least the latter end of May. We wanted to ensure that we had money to continue that carry-over and, of course, for the COVID restrictions business support scheme (CRBSS), which the Department for the Economy will administer as well, and to ensure that money was retained there. Of course, a huge amount of LRSS money was paid out in the last financial year. That was, if you like, the buffer to ensure that, as we went into the new financial year and restrictions were still in place, we were able to continue to pay that out.”
“We realised that there was a miscalculation in the statement rather than in the tables. I have corrected it in the House, and we will send an amended statement round to ensure that Members are aware of that.”
“First, we checked the statement's figures against the table's figures. We continued to check them right up to the last number of minutes before I came down.”
“It is certainly not anywhere that the Executive want or intend to be.”
“If we end up in a situation where the Government refuse to provide some support to us to pay for the victims' pension scheme, the only alternative that the Executive will have to meet the payments is to take the money off Departments on a pro rata basis. That is certainly not where we want to go, because it pits the provision of vital public services against the needs of victims. This is not the space that any of us wanted to be in. It is the consequence of a Government deciding at the last minute, under pressure from its own Back-Benchers, to increase substantially the victims' pension scheme that the parties agreed at Stormont House and to heap the costs of meeting their policy and legislation on to the Executive. <BR /> <BR />We intend to continue to have that discussion. Top-slicing Departments' budgets would be the last resort.”
“As the Member is aware, the First Minister, the deputy First Minister, the Justice Minister and I have given an undertaking that the costs of the scheme will be met this year. Of course, the Executive's position is that those costs should be met by the British Government under their own statement of funding policy. We intend to continue that discussion with the British Government to ensure that they step up and meet those costs. I will engage with Treasury in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />The Member referred to top-slicing Departments' budgets. That will be the outcome if the British Government refuse to honour their statement of funding policy and pay for the scheme that they devised and legislated for, which is outside what the parties agreed at Stormont House.”
“I thank the Chair for his comments and questions. The normal Budget exchange scheme allows us to carry over a proportion of money at the end of the year: up to about £85·8 million resource DEL, £2·8 million ring-fenced resource DEL, £3·4 million student loan impairment, £22·3 million capital DEL and £29·2 million financial transactions capital. We also got permission, because we had a very late allocation from Treasury, to carry over until the next financial year a further £238 million non-ring-fenced resource DEL, £75 million capital DEL and £14 million financial transactions capital. <BR /> <BR />The Budget provides £6·7 million to TEO for the implementation costs of the victims' payment scheme.”
“However, that is a small amount, which we will be able to carry forward to next year, provided that Departments do not return excessive end-year underspends. With the exception of the FTC lending, that position should mean that no funding will be lost to the Executive. However, that is dependent on Departments spending the allocations that they have been provided with.”
“<BR /> <BR />Those are just some of the more notable allocations made since January monitoring, and full details of all allocations are in the tables accompanying the statement. <BR /> <BR />By the end of the financial year, the Executive allocated all available resource DEL funding. All spending proposals brought forward by Departments to provide COVID support to individuals and businesses since the conclusion of January monitoring were met in full. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, £55·3 million of financial transactions capital remains unallocated, and, while we can carry forward some FTC to 2021-22, it is again inevitable that some of that loan capital will be lost. <BR /> <BR />Due to the late surrender of capital funding by Departments, there remains £0·4 million unallocated in capital DEL.”
“That includes £51 million to extend the localised restrictions support scheme (LRSS) in view of the continued restrictions. <BR /> <BR />As result of the late announcements from the British Government, the Executive had a significant amount of money to spend in the last quarter of the financial year. I encouraged Departments to bid for that money, but I also developed contingency plans in case funding was at risk of being surrendered to the Treasury. <BR /> <BR />Once again, Land and Property Services (LPS) stepped up to develop three grant schemes for businesses. The total cost of those schemes is estimated at £177·9 million resource DEL. That funding will sustain many businesses and the workers whom they employ.”
“Since January monitoring and taking account of additional funding provided by the Treasury, the Executive allocated a further £634 million, including £175 million for health PPE; £10·4 million for higher education student support; £12·4 million to extend the business support scheme and the large tourism and hospitality business support scheme; and £35·4 million to support a pay increase for teachers. A further £27·3 million was provided for student hardship and £25 million for the £500 payment to health workers. <BR /> <BR />My Department has received £231·6 million. That is not the figure in the statement, which was corrected just before I came to the Chamber. I apologise for the wrong figure being in the statement, and an amended statement will be sent to Members. The actual figure that we received was £231·6 million.”
“Departments also took the opportunity to surrender reduced requirements for reallocation in those financial exercises. Details of the reduced requirements notified and allocations made at each of those points were appended to my written ministerial statements and have been included again in the tables to this statement for completeness. <BR /> <BR />The final tranche of allocations was agreed on 25 March. While it is unusual to allocate funding at that late stage in the financial year, Members will appreciate that it was an unusual financial situation as a result of COVID, especially with the drip-feed of funding from London. <BR /> <BR />By the conclusion of January monitoring, the Executive had already allocated over £3 billion for COVID support and public services in 2020-21.”
“Members will be aware of the additional funding allocations that were made since the 2020-21 January monitoring round. I advised the Assembly of those by written ministerial statement, and I undertook to provide an oral statement, once all further funding allocations were made, to allow questions to be asked. <BR /> <BR />At the conclusion of the January monitoring round, unallocated funding of £346·4 million resource, £28·3 million capital and £55·7 million financial transactions capital (FTC) remained. Ministers were asked to come forward with spending proposals to use that funding. As a result of that work, further allocations were agreed at four points since the January monitoring round.”
“More importantly, however, I want to say sorry to the wider community, but, more particularly, to apologise fully and unreservedly to those families who were hurt in any way by my actions.”
“OK. You will have a chance to speak later on, and I will not interrupt you. <BR /> <BR />The law does not distinguish between one set of people and another nor one funeral and another; nor should it. I accepted and cooperated with the police investigation into the events. The PPS has now said that it will review the decision it made, and I await the outcome of that review. I fully accept the outcome of those processes. <BR /> <BR />However, let me reiterate today that I regret the political division that the matter has caused in the Assembly and to the public health messaging that we, as a collective, worked so hard to develop and get an agreed response to this terrible pandemic.”
“I am not even sure who is speaking to me, a Cheann Comhairle.”
“I welcome the opportunity that the debate gives me to set out my position on the funeral of Bobby Storey. Hurt has been caused to many families who had to bury their loved ones during this unprecedented health crisis. That was never my intention, nor do I believe that it was the intention of anyone involved in the funeral. However, hurt was caused, and I apologise for that unreservedly. <BR /> <BR />Let me be absolutely clear: the law does not distinguish between one set of people and another or one funeral and another.”
“How will we know that we are becoming more energy-efficient, particularly as buildings contribute to 16% of emissions? How will we measure our movement towards zero carbon in 2050? We need data in order to measure it. Data collection and management are very important for assisting us in adhering to the rules on the longer-term reduction of emissions, in making buildings more energy-efficient and in eradicating fuel poverty by improving our housing stock. <BR /> <BR />The changes will ensure that the energy performance certificate register can continue to operate on a cost-neutral basis. I commend the motion to the House.”
“The registering of data is to be cost-neutral, so it was not a moneymaking exercise, but we are now in a position to be able to reduce the cost, albeit, in monetary terms, the fees are small. It is important, however, that they match what is required. There are no alternative or non-legislative options to reduce the fees, other than by a statutory rule that is approved by the Assembly. If the statutory rule is not approved in its present form, the current higher fee rates will remain in force until a remade statutory rule is approved and signed into law. <BR /> <BR />Much of the debate focused on broader points about energy efficiency and the implications for fuel poverty. Mr Frew correctly pointed out that the gathering of data is very important. How will we benchmark improvements in future?”
“I thank the Members who contributed to the debate. I join the Deputy Chair of the Committee for Finance in welcoming back the Committee Chair. It is good to see him back in the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />The proposed statutory rule will reduce the statutory fees that are charged when data is lodged to the energy performance of buildings register. The reduction is possible because my Department has worked jointly with the Minister for Housing, Communities and Local Government to modernise the register by using new information technology and the latest software development techniques. The register service is now hosted on a cloud-based digital platform that is managed in-house with lower running costs, the benefit of which can be passed on to fee payers. That perhaps addresses Mr Catney's point about previous costs.”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the draft regulations serve a specific purpose, which, as I said, would previously have been dealt with as a routine matter by negative resolution in order to reduce the statutory fees that are charged when data is registered for domestic and non-domestic energy performance certificates, display energy certificates and air conditioning inspection reports. I commend the draft regulations to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />The new fee rates that are set out in the draft regulations will allow operating costs to continue to be met without generating a profit or subsidising a loss. The costs of the service have been calculated in line with government policy, the principles that are set out in 'Managing Public Money' and with stakeholders in the property and energy professions. The Finance Committee considered the draft regulations on 3 March, and it agreed that they could progress to the next legislative stage. The Examiner of Statutory Rules has considered the draft regulations and has not raised any issue in her report.”
“The fees that are charged to register data on the local energy performance certificates registers were last adjusted three years ago. Officials in my Department, alongside their counterparts in England and Wales, calculate the appropriate level of fees each year in order to ensure a cost-neutral service. A reduction in fees is now possible because the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, in partnership with my Department, has invested in new cloud-based digital platforms and has moved away from the fixed hardware model that had been in place since 2008. The changes should provide a more user-centred and future-proofed service as well as better value, which is demonstrated in the fee reduction.”
“Display energy certificates, which we see in buildings, are also required by regulations, and they provide public services and air conditioning inspection reports in order to further support energy performance assessment and encourage improvement. The Energy Performance of Buildings Regulations also provide for the establishment and maintenance of a register of the data that is used to produce the certificates and reports and for charging fees for entering data on that register. <BR /> <BR />The Climate Change Committee reported that, in 2016, buildings accounted for 16% of our total emissions. Assessing the energy performance of our individual buildings and ensuring that our buildings are as efficient as possible will help to reduce those emissions.”
“The Energy Performance of Buildings Regulations implemented the certification and inspection requirements of the energy performance of buildings directive, which include the production of EPCs, that is, energy performance certificates, display energy certificates, air conditioning inspection reports and recommendation reports. An EPC is required whenever a building is constructed or for an existing building before it is marketed for sale or rent. It gives the prospective purchasers or renters the ability to determine how efficient a property might be and to make comparisons between properties. A property owner can consider the recommendations that are in an EPC to help inform decisions in order to improve the property's energy efficiency.”
“Equivalent legislation is passing through the Westminster Parliament for data that is registered against properties in England and Wales. Scotland operates its own energy performance buildings register and is not covered by the regulations. <BR /> <BR />The purpose of the draft regulations is to reduce the statutory fees that are charged when data is registered for energy performance certificates (EPC), display energy certificates and air conditioning inspection reports for properties. There are two classes of data registration to which fees are applied: domestic properties and non-domestic properties. The draft regulations propose to reduce fees by 12% from £1·86 to £1·64 when data is lodged for domestic properties and to reduce the fees that are charged for non-domestic properties by 81% from £9·84 to £1·89.”
“The draft regulations before the House today are to be made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. The Act gives my Department the power to modify secondary legislation regarding fees or other charges that were created pre-Brexit using powers in the European Communities Act 1972. The draft regulations were laid before the Assembly on 4 March 2020 under paragraph 12(3) of schedule 7 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. That Act requires that regulations follow the draft affirmative procedure. <BR /> <BR />Prior to the end of the implementation period, the regulations would have been made by negative resolution under section 2(2) powers of the European Communities Act 1972 and it is unlikely that we would be debating the issue today.”
“We want to ensure that the facilities are ones that people want to go into, so there will have to be investment in them to make sure that they have all the connectivity that they need and that the surroundings are conducive to attracting people to work in them. I ask the Member to engage with the officials involved and put the case for County Hall in Coleraine.”
“I am sure that the officials who are tasked with working on this — some staff from the Strategic Investment Board (SIB) were tasked to work with us and with local government organisations on this — will look at the entire Civil Service estate and all other public buildings across the North to see what can be utilised. It will depend on what state a building is in and on who is using it. <BR /> <BR />This is not being done to relocate jobs but to allow people to do the job that they do here in Belfast closer to home a couple of days a week. It will mean that they can have a better work-life balance and can spend their money in the local economy while they are there. It will also cut carbon emissions from transport in and out of Belfast.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are a number of factors involved in the consideration of that, and, if the Member is keen that Coleraine be considered, I ask him either to engage with the council down there — I am sure that there is engagement with Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council — or to engage with officials in the Department of Finance to get an understanding of how that criterion was set and how it will apply in the future. This is not about excluding anyone, as this is not the end of the programme. We want to roll it out in the areas that meet the most criteria. I anticipate that it will be successful and that other areas will follow suit.”