Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“That is not in the statement because it has not been finalised. We will continue to fight that battle over replacement EU funding.”
“He confirmed that the Treasury's intent — we will continue to challenge it along with Scotland and Wales — is to hold on to that replacement European funding of, he said, £1·5 billion and allocate it centrally from Whitehall and use it to contribute to the levelling-up fund. From my reading, that is really about channelling money into northern English constituencies, perhaps to try to hold on to the seats that the Conservatives won. That paints a poor picture for us here with regard to our access to lost EU funding. The Member will know that we understood and intended that we would have the funding that we previously had and that it would be given to the Executive to allocate against our priorities. However, it appears that Whitehall and the Treasury are set in a different direction.”
“I am happy to look at the flights issue, particularly in relation to where we are now. The Member will know that connectivity is a key factor in our economic recovery. <BR /> <BR />We have not identified EU funding because the discussion with Treasury on some elements of that funding and Brexit costs goes on. However, with regard to the Shared Prosperity Fund, from which the Department for the Economy has drawn down a significant amount of money — I think that it is around £70 million, although I do not have access to the figures now — the letter that I saw over the weekend from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to the Scottish Finance Minister does not fill us with any degree of hope.”
“I am trying to find the figure from the Department for Communities, but I am told that it intends to have around 1,900 new builds next year. That is a significant number, not just to meet the acute housing pressure. I have listened to the Minister for Communities address the Executive over the past number of weeks, and I understand that the pressure has built during the pandemic and that housing stress has become more acute and has risen more rapidly, as, I am sure, has happened to many public services. The contribution to economic activity that that level of construction will bring is also to be welcomed.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I agree that there are things to be welcomed, but the overall picture is not good, as I have made clear. While we are able to find some good news in how the Executive will prioritise the limited resources available to us, the picture is not the one that we would have wanted.”
“When we published the initial draft Budget, the Departments that came back to us were Communities and Infrastructure, which said, "We had significant capital bids that were not met. We would like to examine the possibility of using RRI borrowing", and we were able to do that with them. I am doing a similar exercise with Health, and we will do one with Education, should it come forward with some projects.”
“The capital funds that we have found for housebuilding and the necessary sewage and water treatment work that will underpin all sorts of developments that might happen, public and private, will make a significant contribution to construction, which makes up about 20% of our economic activity. Of course we want to support the Department for the Economy in the time ahead, and we will do all that we can to support it. All Departments recognise that every one of them is in a difficult position as a consequence of a Budget that we did not seek and that we find unacceptable. <BR /> <BR />In relation to RRI borrowing for Health and Education, of course I am happy and willing.”
“With regard to radical rethinking, the funding that we hoped to announce in the summer did not get announced until 25 November. We were told right through the autumn that we were working on the basis that we were going into a multi-annual Budget situation. We were told abruptly at the end of November that it was to be a single-year Budget. That funding was then not confirmed for a further 14 days by the Secretary of State, as is the requirement. Therefore, the ability to engage in a significant reprioritisation exercise was taken away from the Executive because of the timescales involved. <BR /> <BR />Nonetheless, we want to see economic recovery. Economic recovery is, of course, led by the Department for the Economy but is not the responsibility solely of that Department.”
“As I said, a joint meeting was sought with the First and deputy First Ministers, the Minister for Justice and me. We have not been able to get that meeting yet. I will also continue to talk to Treasury about these matters, because it will also have an input, not just the Northern Ireland Office. We want to see the matter addressed and resolved by the time that we get to the final Budget stage.”
“They drafted a new policy and legislated for it, and, under their statement of funding, they are required to meet the costs. <BR /> <BR />We have not yet had an accurate final cost for victims' pensions, but the top-level estimation of the Department of Justice is certain to be well beyond the finances available to the Executive over a number of years. We have tried diligently to get conversations with the Secretary of State but to no avail. In order to meet not only that court requirement but the requirements of victims, I want to have the matter agreed before the final Budget statement comes to the House and goes to the Executive so that we can get some certainty for victims. We hope that the Secretary of State will eventually commit to meeting us.”
“That leaves an additional £60 million of RRI borrowing that is accessible over this year. I know that a number of Departments are interested and have expressed an interest in bringing forward projects, among them the Department of Health and, potentially, the Department of Education. I look forward to engaging on that with those Departments and their Ministers before we get to the final Budget paper. <BR /> <BR />The final question that the Member raised was about victims' pensions. I am, of course, conscious of the findings of the court and the responsibility that we have to address that. That means not just the responsibility that the court placed on us but the responsibility that we have to victims to find a solution. As the Member will know, the Government changed the agreement that we collectively reached at Stormont House.”
“It will allow for other development, not just public-sector development but private sector as well, and stimulate construction and development. For the Department for Communities, as we have said, there is an NDNA commitment to a significant housebuilding programme. This will help support us to meet that commitment, and I look forward to those projects being developed in full.”
“Whilst we have a significant proportion of money to spend in this financial year, our challenges arise in the next financial year, for which we have been allocated, as I have said, a flatline Budget which, in effect, is a cut for some Departments. The COVID money that we have allocated is only a small proportion of the COVID money that we have received this year. We want that flexibility to carry over as much as we can to assist with some of the pressures that we will undoubtedly meet in the next financial year. <BR /> <BR />With regard to RRI borrowing, I have identified that two Departments have asked for £70 million each — the Department for Communities and the Department for Infrastructure. That will help the Department for Infrastructure to carry out the very necessary water and sewerage work.”
“<BR /> <BR />Departments are beginning to return money, and I intend to bring a January monitoring and COVID paper to the Executive on Thursday. Departments have begun to return some amounts that they fear they will not be able to spend. As he said, there are two ways to address this. One is that we encourage all Departments to bring forward schemes and to redouble their efforts to make sure that whatever sectors are under their responsibility get the necessary support over the next two and a half months. We are also lobbying very strongly, alongside the Finance Ministers in Scotland and Wales, with Treasury to allow us the maximum flexibility to carry over some of that money into the new financial year.”
“I thank the Chair of the Committee for his comments, the support that he has offered me over the course of trying to get the Budget paper to the Executive and agreed, and for the conversation with the Committee last week on these matters. Of course there is concern about potential underspends. We had £3 billion of COVID money on top of the money that Departments already had to spend over the year. It is a significant challenge, and a lot of the COVID money came late in the year. Although we have allocated the vast bulk of it, we received an additional £200 million on Christmas Eve. It was a Christmas present from the Treasury, but it was just before we broke for Christmas and added to the money already there.”
“As a result of the delay in the spending review, it is possible to allow only a short period for the consultation process, with replies due by 25 February 2021. Details of how to respond are available in the Budget document that accompanies this statement and on the Department of Finance website. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Budget seeks to protect key public services in a very challenging financial context. I hope that this one-year Budget will act as a bridge to a multi-year Budget that allows the Executive to reprioritise their spending properly and plan for the longer term. I commend the draft Budget to the House.”
“Indeed, Mr Lewis has refused even to meet the First Minister, deputy First Minister, Justice Minister and me to discuss the funding of the victims' pension payments. The Executive are fully committed to delivering those payments, and, in line with the British Government’s statement of funding policy, it is the responsibility of the British Government to provide the necessary funding. I hope that the Secretary of State will meet with Ministers to discuss how the significant costs involved, which the Justice Minister has estimated might be as much as £800 million, will be funded. <BR /> <BR />As part of the Budget process, I am commencing a period of consultation to help the Executive to form a final Budget before the new financial year.”
“<BR /> <BR />Due to legislative constraints, the Executive’s Budget is restricted to the amounts set out by the Secretary of State and notified to the Assembly in my written ministerial statement of 1 December 2020. Unfortunately, the Secretary of State failed to confirm a number of previously agreed financial packages, and, as a result, those cannot be formally allocated as part of the draft Budget. They include confidence and supply funding, city deals funding and New Decade, New Approach funding, and come to £254·4 million for 2021-22. I hope that the Secretary of State will confirm those important funds in time for them to be incorporated into a final Budget in the coming weeks. <BR /> <BR />The Secretary of State has also yet to provide funding for the victims' pension, which his Government designed and legislated for.”
“<BR /> <BR />People will want to know what provision we have made for dealing with the impact of COVID-19 into the next financial year. The spending review provided £538·2 million of funding for COVID support in 2021-22. That compares with £3 billion in the current financial year. The Executive have allocated £380 million to the Department of Health for the COVID-19 response and vaccine support; £30·6 million to the Department of Education to support families on low incomes through holiday hunger payments; and £700,000 to the Department for the Economy for higher education places following the uncertainty that surrounded the A-level results last summer. The £126·9 million balance of our COVID funding will be held for further consideration as part of the final Budget.”
“It will help to deliver on the Executive’s flagship projects, including the A5, the A6 and the new mother and children’s hospital. Those capital allocations will enable investment in our infrastructure while supporting the construction sector. I can also announce that funding has been allocated to enable work finally to begin on Casement Park. More widely, the draft Budget will also help to deliver key capital projects that will encourage investment and drive our economy: for example, investment in water infrastructure and in the school estate. The level of funding provided also delivers on the NDNA priority to increase investment in social housing. That investment will help to address high levels of housing need and stimulate the construction sector.”
“Those allocations reflect the priority that the Executive place on protecting the vulnerable and supporting our front-line health and social care staff, who have been at the coalface of the fight against the virus. We have also provided funding for pupils with special educational needs, reflecting that this is a crucial stage in young people’s lives. However, I recognise that, for most Departments, the draft Budget outcome represents a flat-cash settlement that will mean effective reductions once increased costs and demands on services are taken into account. Choices will have to be made, public services will have to be prioritised, and, if Ministers want to start new programmes, they may have to stop others. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the capital budget. The draft Budget sets out some £1·75 billion of capital spending.”
“Make no mistake: the spending review outcome has led to very difficult Budget settlements for all Departments. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the Executive have the option to increase revenue through the regional rates. However, in recognition of the impact that COVID-19 has had on jobs and households, we are freezing the regional rate both for domestic and non-domestic customers. I call on councils to consider taking the same approach when setting their district rates. <BR /> <BR />Members will know that I am looking at how additional business rates support can be provided in 2021-22. In this difficult financial context, the Executive have prioritised allocations to continue welfare reform mitigations and to provide for Agenda for Change pay, which will support our health service staff.”
“That delay has further shortened the time available for consultation. <BR /> <BR />Excluding the funding provided for COVID-19, the spending review outcome provides a broadly flat-cash position for normal departmental spending, once one-off funding for public services in 2020-21 has been factored in. It is that spending review outcome that forms the basis of the draft Budget that I am announcing today. <BR /> <BR />The spending review has not delivered the support required to kick-start economic recovery in the context of COVID-19 and Brexit. The outcome reflects an effective flatlining of the 2020-21 Budget position. With increased demands on public services, and taking account of inflation, it will be a challenge merely to deliver existing services at their current levels.”
“I wish to update the House on the Executive's agreement to a draft Budget for 2021-22. Members will know that the Executive cannot set their Budget without a funding envelope being set by the Treasury spending review. I had hoped that the Executive's Budget would be set last summer and would provide a multi-year settlement. That would have provided the Executive with sufficient time to reprioritise, plan and consult the public. However, the spending review outcome was not announced until 25 November 2020 and provides only a single-year Budget. <BR /> <BR />In those circumstances, I tabled a draft Budget for the Executive's meeting on 10 December that largely rolled over Departments' existing baselines for another year. Unfortunately, it was not until today that the paper was allowed onto the Executive's agenda for decision.”
“There are consequences beyond that, which I do not believe that the Committee fully either examined or understood, and those must be made clear. When we are voting for legislation in this House, we need to know what we are voting for. Absolute clarity is needed in relation to all of those matters so that we can get the best possible legislation that supports victims of domestic violence.”
“I am not sure whether the Member has not listened to what I have said or whether he has just not understood what I have said. I have said clearly that I am committed to that, but that the Committee, in some of the amendments that it put forward, went far beyond what it was intending to do, so there were unforeseen consequences to some of the proposals that it was making. The Committee needs to understand the consequences of those and get assistance to amend its proposals properly and take them forward. I am committed to seeing the strongest possible legislation, including support for people who require legal aid, but we want to ensure that people who do not deserve that or who we do not intend to be caught up in that amendment do not fall within it.”
“I hope that the Committee will take that away and look at it and that an agreed approach to the Bill can be taken so that we can get the strongest possible protection and support for people through legal aid.”
“No, we are not saying that at all. We are saying that the Committee's amendment was not properly thought through and had much bigger scope to increase the provision of legal aid, including perhaps to some who were accused of being involved in domestic abuse. That amendment clearly needed to be tidied up and the proper ramifications of it thought through. <BR /> <BR />Not only are there implications for the extent of legal aid available here, but there would be a repercussive impact if people were to seek similar remedies in England, Scotland or Wales based on what had happened here. It was very clear that the Committee needed to be advised on the full extent of the amendment that it had put forward, and I assisted the Justice Minister in providing, from a financial point of view, advice to the Committee.”
“Yes, I certainly will, and that is why we want to move as quickly as possible with the legislation. Members may have engaged with parents who have had to use changing facilities and toilet facilities that are not adapted to suit the particular needs of young people and children who need to use them. It is a heart-wrenching experience for them to have to change children on toilet floors. There is a requirement to provide those facilities. The work at the play park down the hill will perhaps be completed ahead of the regulations going through, so we are taking the lead on that, and I hope that other services and other public bodies will follow suit.”
“I will do, if I can find it here. <BR /> <BR />We have been focused on the issue, particularly in recent times, and we have had an opportunity to engage with those who are affected. We will bring forward provision by amending the local building regulations as quickly as possible. It is proposed that a requirement will be introduced by amending the technical guidance to the building regulations rather than by changing the regulations, mirroring the approach that has been taken by Administrations in Britain. As she referenced, work is also progressing to install a Changing Places toilet on the Stormont estate at the Mo Mowlam play park, and that is due for completion by early 2021.”
“Discussions are ongoing, and we anticipate a good outcome. The discussions with the Treasury have not been negative, so we are hopeful of a good outcome. Of course, if money is returned to the Executive, it is up to the Executive to decide how to spend that money, but I am sure that the Minister for Communities will make a very strong pitch for it to go back into housing in general terms.”
“We are some way behind on our carbon targets in building regulations. People in the Department are doing an exercise and very quickly trying to catch up and perhaps exceed what is happening in other areas, and they are involving people from the sectors and experts who can give some very valuable advice. I hope that that work is taken forward as quickly as possible, because, yes, if we are able to embark on housebuilding and an ambitious project of construction, we have to try to ensure that it is future-proofed to meet all the standards that we will need in the time ahead. We need to catch up to some degree, but that work is being undertaken at pace to try to get us into the correct position.”
“To improve the situation, we need to support public services and support economic growth.”
“I have to agree with him. The small dose of cynicism that most of us felt when we saw people standing outside Downing Street to clap for public-sector workers has been borne out by this announcement, even if they are providing some relief for health service workers. Clearly, there has been widespread recognition of the value of public-sector workers and those in all the jobs that kept society going during the pandemic and of the vital nature of the work that they do for the general public. <BR /> <BR />In many ways, we have not escaped austerity, even though there was one Budget that was an improvement. However, the long-lasting effect of years of austerity has meant that we have not begun to recover, so heading back in that direction is worrying. It is the wrong policy.”
“Public-sector workers have played a vital role in delivering public services throughout the pandemic. Therefore, I was hugely disappointed by the Chancellor's announcement that he was freezing the pay of many hard-working public-sector employees, outside of those in the health service, for 2021–22. I understand that the Treasury will not seek to impose the pay freeze on workforces for which the Executive have direct responsibility. However, at the same time, the Treasury has, effectively, frozen our resource budget, so any pay increases will inevitably have an impact on spending on other vital public services. Furthermore, the pay of many staff groups here is linked to pay processes in Britain, where the freeze is being imposed by the Chancellor. Clearly, it is a matter that the Executive will need to carefully consider in the time ahead.”
“As part of NDNA, funding was given to us for Agenda for Change. As I said in my previous answer, the Budget position for this year is very challenging, but we will look at how that can be met from that funding and the Budget available to us.”
“In the earlier part of the pandemic, many students who had not completed their term willingly came into the front line of the health service, and I think that that was recognised in a payment to them. I think that that has run its course, but I have encouraged the Health Minister to consider continuing that payment, We have some COVID money allocated to the Department of Health, so I think that the payment should continue until the pandemic has run its course, certainly until the end of this financial year. I hope that the Health Minister will do that in recognition of the sacrifice that they made in stepping up. They did not have the full experience and were immediately thrown in at the deep end of one of the biggest challenges that the health service has faced. They merit a reward for that.”
“We need to start the Budget consultation process as quickly as possible, not leave it until the new year, which would shorten the consultation time. It will be challenging. There are no additional pots of money. Next year, we will have some COVID money, but that is not what is required for this commitment and is much less than we had this year. I am committed to working with the Justice Department to see how we can put this into effect.”
“The £350 million was earmarked and has been spent in this financial year, so it is not available. That would have been a loss from our baselines. We got a slight increase in the Budget that took account of that and gave a little more, but it is basically a standstill Budget for next year, unless the Executive decide on a reprioritisation exercise and reallocate money by taking it from some Departments and adding it to others. However, that is a big undertaking at this time of year, given that the comprehensive spending review reported late and left us with limited time. <BR /> <BR />I have sent a Budget paper to the Executive, and I want, if they approve it, to make a Budget statement tomorrow.”
“<BR /> <BR />There will be a challenging time ahead, particularly with the economic downturn and probably a loss of income to various public bodies and the Executive generally across the economy. That will be challenging. Nonetheless, I am committed to working with the Department of Justice to see how we can meet the commitment. Unlike the Secretary of State, the Northern Ireland Office and the British Government, I think that, when we make a commitment under New Decade, New Approach, we should do our best to honour it.”
“I agree that we should meet all the NDNA commitments. I have discussed this with the Justice Minister. A lead-in period is required, according to the Department of Justice, to give effect to this. The Member knows that, immediately after our NDNA agreement was reached, the British Government withdrew from quite a substantial number of the financial promises that they had made to support and underpin it. Nonetheless, we have to find ways to meet the obligations under NDNA as best we can. There was £350 million in the Budget for this financial year to meet them that has not come back. We now have a Budget that is a slight improvement on last year, but, when you absorb that amount of it, it is a very limited improvement on last year.”
“My officials are working closely with the Ulster University Economic Policy Centre and other Departments to identify the business sectors most severely impacted by the economic consequences of the pandemic. That will allow me to determine how the relief can be applied to the best effect to support local business. I fully appreciate that businesses need as much clarity as possible on major costs such as rates in the longer term, and I intend to make a further statement on this in the near future.”
“<BR /> <BR />When we get beyond the experience of the pandemic, there are a lot of lessons to be learned for working practices, the need for buildings and for so much office space, the ability to afford people more flexibility in their working arrangements and how that balance helps them in their daily life.”
“I do not have the figure to hand, but I know that has been the experience. There is more research to be done on whether that is a consequence of the pandemic and working from home. Clearly, the pandemic has accelerated us into new working arrangements that probably would have developed over the next number of years anyway, with more use of technology and remote working. There are benefits to all that and lessons to be learned on how that has worked out over the course of the pandemic. One of those benefits is the reduction in sickness among civil servants.”
“The absence rates have dropped significantly.”
“Yes, I can confirm that. I know that the Member has raised the issue before, and we have talked previously in the Chamber about it. I do not believe that there was an intention, with the use of the word, to insult or to add hurt to people who were suffering from mental health problems. There is a recognition now that it is not a correct term. Increasingly, we know more and more about mental health and how it affects people, so there is a recognition that the word is redundant and needs to be replaced with something better. I am happy to say that, yes, it will be replaced. It will not longer be used in that regard.”
“The word "inefficiency" will not be included in its title. The review is being carried out in consultation with trade unions and is scheduled for completion in early 2021.”
“My Department very much recognises the importance of handling absence relating to mental health with sensitivity and understanding. Northern Ireland Civil Service human resources is reviewing the way in which sickness absence is managed throughout the Civil Service. That is an extensive piece of work, which includes a review of the current policies, supporting processes, staff guides and all forms of communication to staff, including warning letters. That work will seek to ensure that the language and tone of all communications with staff who are absent from work due to underlying medical conditions, including mental health conditions, focuses on how those colleagues can best be supported. The review of the sickness absence and inefficiency sickness absence policies is under way and will see them merged to create one single policy.”
“The rate relief money that we provided to all the businesses for four months, and to the targeted businesses for the further eight months of the financial year, was COVID money that came, via the Barnett consequentials, from COVID spend in England. The clear sense of that funding was that it was to be spent in the financial year, so I assume and expect that, if and when it is returned, and once it is apportioned by Treasury, it will have to be spent in this financial year.”
“They will have benefited if they have premises here that qualified under the 12-month holiday. I can find out the figures and see what it was. I have had no contact or indication from them that, if they have benefited from rate relief, they intend to return any.”