Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“The formation of that panel is the responsibility of the Executive Office. I hope that that is taken forward as a matter of urgency. It is an incomplete part of the process that we have been dealing with in the Department of Finance and the RHI Executive subcommittee. I will bring that to the attention of the Executive because, clearly, if we are bringing that proposition to the Executive for completion in December, we want to see that panel in place as well.”
“The RHI subcommittee met last week and processed further some of the issues that we have been dealing with in the ongoing work on codes. It is our intention to bring that to the Executive in December for approval and clearance before Christmas recess.”
“The Member knows that the RHI process is ongoing and affects a certain number of individuals. We do not wish to speculate about what they may do now or in the future until that process has run its course. In general terms, he made a point that is worth looking at: the functions that someone who is subject to a disciplinary process can or cannot avail themselves of, as the case may be. beyond their term in public service, depending on the outcome of any such investigation. That is something that, as part of the review and reform of the Civil Service, we will want to address.”
“The RHI disciplinary proceedings are ongoing, and I await their determinations.”
“With regard to the first question, there is huge uncertainty about what our future trading relations will be like. That could challenge significantly the security of supply. We need to bottom out all those issues. As yet, the Executive are still fairly in the dark about how this will eventually fall down. The British Government have not been keen to share information with anybody outside their own narrow confines. <BR /> <BR />I am advised by the Minister of Health that the vaccine will be procured centrally in the British government system and supplied to us. The logistics of rolling out a vaccination programme will be a matter that the Executive will meet the cost for.”
“Clearly, one of the first issues is that, if you are not transporting goods from the far side of the world, there is certainly an environmental benefit. Having goods produced on this island in these islands certainly cuts down on transportation costs. I am happy to look at all the issues that the Member has raised and ensure that the Procurement Board, when examining these issues, considers all those matters going forward.”
“All of it is unsatisfactory as far as we are concerned and, I am sure, as far as the Member is concerned. We should not be in this position a couple of weeks away from the exit date. The mess is not of our creating. It is certainly not the creation of the democratic wishes of the people in this part of the world. It is not of our creation in terms of the negotiations and the processes developed between the British Government and the EU. The sooner it is resolved with a greater degree of clarity, the better for all of us.”
“That remains to be seen. There is much uncertainty on the Brexit issue. Legislation is going through the Houses of Parliament. The Lords has taken a particular view, and, from reading commentary, I know that the Commons intends to take a different view when the Bill comes back for further processing through the legislative framework.”
“It goes back to the original question from my colleague Mr O'Dowd about security of supply, knowing your suppliers and easy access to them being as important as cheaper prices in the Far East.”
“Yes. Officials dealt with the contracts in China. I spoke to one of them, and he was amused at the amount of money that someone had received when the official was doing it as part of his public service to us. He did a remarkable job. The focus on the first attempt to obtain PPE here pales into insignificance compared with the obscene amounts of money that the British Government were prepared to pay to middlemen to achieve this. I would not say that it was panic, but there was certainly great urgency in securing PPE, and we were not alone in trying to source material in the Far East. That undoubtedly added to costs, but it also added to the complications in accessing those goods.”
“One of the lessons that we have to learn across the island and between these islands is, as a consequence of this, that cheaper prices and goods on the other side of the world may be fine for saving some money, but they do not bring security of supply or assist local economic growth in the way that procurement should be tailored to do. There are a lot of lessons to be learned, and I look forward to the newly constituted Procurement Board getting stuck into the issue fairly quickly.”
“From my perspective, the Procurement Board and the general procurement of contracts has to follow a set of criteria. However, the experience of the pandemic is such that security of supply has to be key whereas, previously, price was king with regard to procurement. The evidence during the pandemic was that there is sufficient capacity, skill and ingenuity in local manufacturing to meet some of the critical supply that is necessary for us on the island. Certainly, with regard to food, pharma and manufacturing, that critical supply exists here.”
“Security of supply is a fundamental in all public-sector contracts. It is essential that commissioners continually monitor and assess the resilience of supply chains as COVID-19 continues to impact on demand and production in the manufacturing sector. Security of supply will also be impacted by EU exit if the British Government fail to secure a trade deal with the EU. I plan to appoint an expert advisory panel from industry to bring fresh thinking on procurement matters and to advise the Procurement Board of lessons learned during the pandemic to help to build the resilience of government supply chains.”
“The Member will know that the scheme to which he refers is being taken forward by the Department for the Economy. The scheme tries to address a section of our business community that has not received any support so far. I have made this point many times: as we are now, perhaps, getting on to the third level of support for some businesses, it is particularly acute for those who have not received any support to date. The Department for the Economy will roll out the scheme. I look forward to seeing the details, and I am sure that, if it can assist some of the businesses to which he refers, it will be of benefit to them.”
“The restrictions themselves have changed the businesses that are required to close. All that has happened with little notice. As for the notion that we had months to come up with the schemes, I wish that we had had. I wish that we had known what restrictions would be in place and what funding would be available to us. I wish that we had known that the Treasury was going to change its mind abruptly on furloughing with no notice. I look forward to finding out tomorrow what will be in our budgets for next year when the comprehensive spending review is finished. It has not been ideal for planning, but we put together schemes and processes as quickly as we could once we had all the relevant information.”
“The Member will know, because her colleague proposed the restrictions last Thursday, that we were not aware until Thursday that non-essential retail was part of the Department of Health's proposition for restrictions. In order to come up with a package to address those issues, you have to know where the businesses that need support are. Over the weekend, we had, in essence, to come up with a package, and that is what we did. Yesterday, I brought to the Assembly a substantial support package across a range of Departments, including the Department for the Economy, to provide that support. <BR /> <BR />The funding available to us has changed. The furlough scheme has changed at very short notice. We knew just over only two and a half weeks ago that we had an additional £400 million.”
“Yes. The number of applications is, I think, in the region of 12,000; the number of payments is over 5,000; and I think that in the region of over 2,000 have been rejected. More than half have been processed, and we are heading towards £20 million in payout on that scheme.”
“Secondly, making those sorts of payments requires access to HMRC taxpayer data and systems that we do not have and nor could we get. That said, I will continue to use all the levers at my disposal to support businesses that are impacted, as I did most recently in putting in place the localised restrictions support scheme, paying double the amounts available under the London Government's scheme.”
“I have been concerned that the Treasury's eligibility criteria for its schemes have excluded some businesses, and I have raised that directly and repeatedly with Ministers in London. In particular, given the local restrictions that the Executive put in place in October, I called on the Treasury to make furloughing available immediately for all businesses that needed it. I recognise, however, there was a gap for businesses not eligible before the 1 November extension of the scheme, but that sort of wage support can be put in place only by Treasury. First, the scale of the funding required is huge. Ulster University has estimated that the value of furlough claims in the North up to the end of July was £890 million. That is beyond the scope of our budget locally.”
“Clearly, we will look at them. We have initiated a process of Civil Service reform. We are putting together a group to take that forward, and the report fits into that discussion. Of course, there will be recommendations in that report that will require to be addressed as part of a response to your Committee and the Assembly as a whole, and I am sure that the Department will look at that. However, it will dovetail nicely with what we intended to do in terms of Civil Service reform, as we agreed under NDNA.”
“Yes. A range of issues are to be reviewed in terms of Civil Service reform. It is a significant piece of work, and that is why I am putting together a reform team. It can scope out the broad areas and consult other Departments, Ministers and others on the full scope of issues that we want to see in Civil Service reform. There was a clear commitment in NDNA to do the work. It falls largely to my Department, which has responsibility for the Civil Service, and we are happy for it to be as broad as is considered necessary.”
“Quite a lot of the work that I have just outlined has been conducted without a head of the Civil Service, so the world does not come to an end without somebody being in post as the head of the Civil Service. A lot of work continues on through the Departments and through the Executive Office. Of course, I would like to see a head of the Civil Service being appointed soon. I know that the First Minister and deputy First Minister are looking at steps such as interim appointments. I think that they want to look at the role of the head of the Civil Service, and, obviously, it will be up to them to bring forward that process.”
“I am discussing with Executive colleagues the creation of a Civil Service reform team in DOF that will develop a wider reform plan. The Procurement Board will be reconstituted to include an expert advisory panel appointed from key sectors in the economy. I will consider last week's NIAO report on Civil Service capacity and capability and its potential for read-across to Civil Service reform.”
“Good progress has been made to deliver the New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) Civil Service reform commitments. The Executive formed a subcommittee on responding to the renewable heat incentive (RHI) inquiry and reform in March 2020. It met in late July and last week and is currently working to complete the Executive’s response to the RHI inquiry. <BR /> <BR />A revised Civil Service code of ethics has been developed, including discussions with trade unions and Civil Service Commissioners. That will be finalised soon and become part of all Civil Service contracts of employment. It has significant changes on working for the Executive as a whole, on record-keeping and on raising and responding to concerns that are raised either internally or externally. <BR /> <BR />The review of arm's-length bodies is under way, with stage 1 complete.”
“As I said, I will give the Member the benefit of the doubt that he misunderstood that, but that is what I was referring to, not the global effect of the pandemic.”
“I will give the Member the benefit of the doubt and say that he is misunderstanding what I said rather than deliberately misrepresenting it. Clearly, the criticisms that I was referring to and that he would have said had he gone on to quote further related to the people who were saying that we should have a financial package ready to go with the restriction announcements last Thursday. We did not know what the health experts were recommending with regard to non-essential retail until Thursday morning or 11.30 pm on Wednesday. For me, who goes to sleep at that time, it was Thursday morning. We were not aware of it, so we could not bring a financial package to the Executive on Thursday for agreement.”
“It is an outstanding payment that is coming from money that was held in reserves for the airports; it has been sitting in reserves for some time. Some £10 million was sitting in reserves for airports, and I hope by next week to be able to identify which Department is to pay that out — it will probably be Infrastructure — and work it through with Belfast International Airport, the City Airport and City of Derry Airport.”
“This is all Barnett consequential money. We used the October monitoring round savings to allocate to departmental pressures and to keep them separate from these allocations. Of course, I anticipate further surrenders of money in the January monitoring round, which will be used to meet some departmental pressures. <BR /> <BR />I intend to bring a paper to the Executive next week on airport funding. The Member may know that, when we made a previous payment to airports, the International Airport did not at that stage require any assistance from us. It is clear that it now does, and we are working through that with it. The payment that he refers to for City of Derry Airport is an outstanding payment; it is not new as part of this allocation.”
“I encourage those people to contact the relevant Departments to make their case. If they need assistance, I have always offered to meet people in order to steer them in the right direction, to encourage them and to tell them the type of information that they need to present to make a case for themselves.”
“I have said repeatedly at Executive meetings over the last while that there is a particular urgency in ensuring that the people to whom the Member referred who have received no support get support. <BR /> <BR />We are now into our second and third rounds of support for some businesses. While that support is clearly vital, it is grossly unfair on those who have not received it. I have met people from different sectors that are not the responsibility of my Department to try to offer assistance and steer them to the right place to get support, and to offer officials to assist them to gather up the right information so that they can take it to the relevant Department to present it and get support. I am keen to get support out. I am acutely aware that, as we roll out further levels of support for business, some people have still to receive it.”
“I do not have today's up-to-date figures because I was too busy over the weekend trying to distribute half a billion pounds right across economic and community support. I will get the up-to-date figures for tomorrow's Question Time, but the last up-to-date figures that I had at the weekend show a significant increase on the figure that the Member quotes, which is from over a week ago.”
“We are encouraging LPS to act as quickly as possible. The data that it needs to assess close contact services was not possessed by it alone. A lot was possessed on the councils' environmental health side, so it had to get data transfer and match-ups. That is what caused the delay in the initial phase. <BR /> <BR />As I said — I am not suggesting that it is the case here — but, in general, if anyone comes back and says that they have not received payment, we need to make sure that the information is correct, it is in and people have responded to requests for further information. That can sometimes hold up a payment. Of course we recognise that people are suffering on the ground and want payments to happen as quickly as possible. We want to see that as well.”
“The money that we are allocating is COVID money, so it has to be spent in this financial year. The contribution that I have made for free school meals takes it up to the end of the financial year. Last Thursday, the Education Minister brought a paper to the Executive on the continuation of free schools until the end of the mandate, for which he got Executive support. That is very welcome. We are now working out the budgets for Departments and will have to work with Education to meet that budget, as the Executive have agreed, and we want to do it until the end of the mandate.”
“Of course, the additional payments that we have offered up today are very welcome, and, when the payments are hitting the ground and the people out there who are suffering as a consequence of the pandemic are feeling the benefit, we will all find that we are in a much happier place. To be quite honest, I am not interested in the sideswipes and the arguments. I am interested in getting these schemes effectively out on the ground.”
“I am not sure where you get that. The Executive collectively have allocated about half a billion pounds, the lion's share of which is to support businesses across a range of Departments. To suggest that only the Economy Minister is fighting for businesses is a nonsense, and you should understand that. I know that you are making political points. The Department for Infrastructure bids were met in full. I encourage the Infrastructure Minister to get out the door the schemes that she is paying out as quickly as she possibly can, and I encourage the Economy Minister and other Ministers to do that too.”
“I do not have that level of detail on whether it is a household or a person. Particularly with the pandemic, people will be spending much more time at home during the winter and, obviously, running up heating costs. The Communities Minister brought forward a proposal to help that group with its heating bills, and, obviously, I was very happy to support that, as were the Executive. I understand that the payment will be made in January, when the support is needed most, and I assume that the details on who will be eligible will be brought forward before then.”
“Yes, it is. It is in addition to the £10 million that was previously given for the newly self-employed.”
“The short answer is yes. It is to make up. That is another grant that comes out of the Department of Finance, as we manage the rates system, even though it is a support for the broad economy, not from the Department for the Economy. Yes, it is intended to allow the same rates holiday that other businesses have to the end of the financial year.”
“I know that LPS has been trying to meet the process date to get the payments out very quickly and to deal with businesses that have submitted incorrect information or have a question over them. LPS has been trying to be flexible. On the £10,000 schemes, LPS is trying to be very flexible with businesses that had been in the process of getting valuations and assessments done and to allow space for that to happen. If the Member sends me the details, I will write to the Department and try to ensure that there is a follow-up. I know that they do come back to all those who missed out on the LPS schemes and try to work with them to see if they can be put on a scheme.”
“As I say, the scheme for wet pubs is very welcome. I had pressed for a scheme for some time. In my own village, some pubs did not open again. Some pubs were only open for a number of weeks before they were closed again. They have been effectively closed down since March, so that scheme is very welcome. There should be a very clear list of those wet pubs and how to get funding to them. I hope that the scheme can be delivered to them very quickly. <BR /> <BR />The £10·6 million tourism initiative is aimed at properties and businesses with an NAV over £51,000 that missed out on the £25,000 grants. Of course, how that is allocated will be a matter for the Department for the Economy. However, that is intended to meet the needs of those premises.”
“As you have correctly said, B&Bs that have six bedrooms or fewer are classified as domestic properties and, therefore, were not able to avail themselves of the previous £10,000 and £25,000 support scheme grants. When we spoke to B&B owners, as part of the group that was excluded on a range of issues, they said that they could be identified through community information held by the Tourist Board, their certifying body. We were able to get that data and include B&Bs in the current scheme. So they will be paid during the current restrictions. We also recognise that B&Bs had previously missed out, and £4·6 million has been put into the scheme to assist them with the previously missed payment.”
“As I said, it is a question of getting the right balance of packages. We are supporting businesses that have been closed down. The Department of Finance actually picks up the lion's share of the support because we are providing the scheme for the premises. The Department for the Economy's part is much smaller. It is the rate support scheme that will go on into the new financial year, the high street stimulus scheme and the voucher scheme that the Member has referred to. Of course, if we had more money, and if we do get more money, we can consider additional allocations to any of these schemes. However, it is a matter of trying to get that balance across a whole range of packages.”
“As I said in response to a previous question, this is one of the key issues that businesses have been pressing us on. We have had lots of engagement with business over the last weeks and months. Those that availed of the year-long rates holiday for this financial year have said how beneficial it was in ensuring that those bills were not an additional cost at a very challenging time. It offered some certainty in the new financial year and gave some early indication of that certainty. We have been trying to work on that, and I intend to use the £150 million for a further six-month rates holiday for those businesses that availed of the full-year rates holiday in this financial year. We are working with the Treasury on that, and I hope to be able to confirm it soon.”
“That is also business support. It is not simply one Department that has responsibility for business support. A sizeable proportion of that business support function comes from the Department of Finance as well. <BR /> <BR />Of course, not all the bids can be met. We need to ensure, so that we can cope with bids, that they can be spent in this financial year. When Departments come forward with options, we have to be certain that they can be spent, as the last thing that we want to do is hand money back at the end of the financial year. That was the balance, and the Executive agreed to it.”
“The total request was in the region of £390 million, although I stand to be corrected. On top of the figure that you mentioned, there is an additional £60 million, which the Department for the Economy is holding. <BR /> <BR />Bear in mind that the Department of Finance is also paying out to businesses: there is an additional £55 million, which totals £90 million, which the Department of Finance is paying directly to businesses. It is not just the Department for the Economy that is paying out to businesses. The Department of Finance is paying £90 million, in the business support schemes that we are running, plus the £150 million that we have set aside. We were working closely with the Treasury over the weekend and hope to conclude negotiations very quickly. We hope to provide a rates holiday into the next financial year.”
“The £20 million scheme is in addition to the £10 million for the self-employed scheme, which the Department for the Economy has already announced, so those things should be addressed. We are trying to provide additional resources. In my Department, Land and Property Services has a very specialised role; you cannot just put people into rate collection from other sections of the Department. However, we are trying to give them assistance with communication, answering questions and getting advice out to people. I hope that in other Departments, where speed is of the essence in getting support out on the ground, they provide additional resources to the teams that are working on it.”
“I appreciate what he says about the online presence favouring much bigger business. That is why there is a £3 million fund in this as well to assist local businesses to get more of an online presence so they can avail of that and that it is not just left to the big multinational companies. However, in terms of the target, and how much more can be spent, that is something that the Department for the Economy will have to respond to.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some of the detail of how the voucher scheme is intended to operate will have to be expanded on by the Department for the Economy.”
“We, of course, want to get the money out the door as quickly as possible. I have encouraged other Departments' Ministers to make allocations to do that, not just the Department for the Economy's. There is a balance to be struck between trying to verify information to support a funding application and trying to ensure that the money goes out quickly. I encourage people who are applying to try to make sure that the details that they give are correct, that they are what is required and that they check in case there are return requests for details. Quite often, people miss emails that ask them to provide additional information. People need to keep a watch on that to assist in our getting the money out quickly, which we want to see happening as quickly as possible.”
“I am very keen to give them support if we can.”