Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“In the New Decade, New Approach agreement, the Irish Government reaffirmed their £75 million commitment to the A5 project. The Department for Infrastructure's draft budget for 2022-25 proposes capital allocations for the A5 of £7·4 million, £25·3 million and £80·3 million over the three years. The Dublin Government's contributions are shown as financing that item and reflect income of £7·4 million, £25 million and £25 million that is anticipated in 2022-25. <BR /> <BR />I recognise the Member's point about the safety of that road and the loss of life that has been consistently experienced along it.”
“I imagine that any funding that might become available later on, as we have suggested, would be regarded as being for the likes of housing and other areas that contribute to good health. I am sure that, if funding becomes available, particularly in relation to monitoring rounds, the Executive will recognise that there is a range of other priorities and that it is not simply the Health Department that contributes to good health.”
“The causes and symptoms of ill health are beyond the Health Department, so we have a responsibility to ensure that other Departments prioritise those. The funding for Health is not the entirety of the Executive's commitment to better health for our population. Obviously, a range of Departments have a contribution to make, and we need to ensure that everyone is playing their part in that regard. <BR /> <BR />While there is a significant degree of discretion within departmental budgets, we have said to people that Health was the number-one priority for the Executive, but other areas, such as skills, green growth, recovery, sustainability and tackling inequalities that have health outcomes attached to them, are priorities for the Executive.”
“Of course, Departments have discretion to prioritise those areas themselves and to prioritise them across Departments, if that is appropriate. That is where we got to in the discussion in relation to that and to the recognition that, for some Departments, a reduction of more than 2% would prove to be beyond their means to deal with. To try to take nothing from some Departments and to increase the burden on others would have been too challenging.”
“Certainly, there was a clear sense that a level of reduction higher than 2% in any of the Departments would prove to be very significantly challenging. It is very challenging to achieve 2% — we accept that — never mind impose a higher level on some other Departments. <BR /> <BR />That is where the idea for a reduction across the board came from. It followed a lengthy period of consultation and dialogue with Departments, and we want to ensure that the balance is struck. I have always said that it is a balance, because we have an awful lot of public services that we want to deliver, but we do not have the resources available to do all that we want to do. We want to prioritise health, and we were very clear about that. We talked about a range of other areas of priority, such as green growth and skills.”
“A Programme for Government is not something that I can deliver as part of the Budget. I have a legislative requirement to do the Budget within a certain time frame. Ideally, the two documents would sit beside each other, but I still have a requirement to go ahead with the Budget. <BR /> <BR />We were in conversations with Departments from the summertime about an across-the-board contribution to the Department of Health. We teased out a number of scenarios, including a 4% and an 8% contribution. From dialogue between officials, the feeling was that 4% or 8% was much too serious a challenge for Departments to meet. Once you move away from the chosen proposition to a 2% reduction for some Departments, a 4% or 6% for others and perhaps no reduction for others, you increase the reduction in some Departments and decrease it in others.”
“The revaluation always operates on the basis that a date is picked. You could argue for any date in this past year to demonstrate what the experience has been, but 1 October takes into account the experience of the pandemic and the period leading up to that date. Even with the new variant and an increase in concern, we hope that the worst of the lockdown situations that businesses have experienced are well behind us. We repeat the message for everyone to get the vaccine and the booster and to follow the guidance so that we do not end up in a lockdown situation. That date should be able to capture the pandemic experience for businesses. When it comes to the publication of the revaluation lists in 2023, we will then have an assessment that goes back over the whole period.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Executive agreed a number of meetings back that the Health Minister will be asked to provide, over the 12-week consultation period, a step-by-step update on the spending, what it will achieve and what the outcomes will be so that, when it comes to the vote on the final Budget, the Executive will have a very clear picture of what is intended to be transformed over the three years, of how the funding for acute pressures around waiting lists, cancer treatment and mental health treatment will be spent and of the staging points at which that will be achieved over the period. We are looking for a very clear plan from the Department of Health. As I said, we have already agreed that that will be done over the 12-week consultation period. When it comes to the final Budget, the Executive will therefore have a very clear picture.”
“To tackle the current difficulties, the Department of Health presented us, some time back, with costed propositions for dealing with elective care in order to reduce waiting lists and to deal with cancer services, which have become ever more acute since the pandemic hit, and the strategy for tackling mental health issues. Those propositions will be funded in full by ensuring that the Department of Health has that money going forward. They will also make sure that the money provided for transformation is given to Health in full over the three-year period and that there is a significant amount of other money to be spent at the Health Minister's discretion.”
“The Member knows the approach is that we are not maximising the potential of our RRI spend, particularly in a three-year Budget that is challenged in the latter years; capital budgets are very challenged in year 2 and particularly year 3. We need to access any additional opportunities that we have and be as imaginative and flexible as possible, and that is why we intend to press Departments to access the full amount of RRI borrowing by year 3.”
“<BR /> <BR />The difficult and core choice at the centre of the Budget proposal is that, if we are trying to get to grips with a year-on-year increase in health spending over the three years to get the necessary reforms and tackle some of the big issues, this is the opportunity to do that. In a finite Budget where we have not got all that we wanted in order to do all the things that we wanted to do across every area of public service, that means that some tough choices have had to be made to divert funding to Health. If the final outcome is that the Executive change their view on that or the Assembly changes its view and decides not to do that, Health will not have the money necessary for the transformation. <BR /> <BR />We have had many conversations about RRI spending.”
“I thank the Committee Chair for his questions and observations. I look forward to working with the Committee over the consultation period and ensuring that it has the opportunity to give its view on the draft proposals. <BR /> <BR />With regard to rates bills, if the legislation were not passed at Westminster, the Barnett consequential would not arise from that and, in effect, that would be lost. I have not received any sense that the legislation will not pass at Westminster. We expect it to pass fairly soon and that the consequential will become available to us.”
“Managing within the proposed draft Budget position will provide significant challenges for all Departments, including mine. I will continue to work with other Ministers to find solutions to those challenges, but the reality is that more money for other public services means less money for health. As an Executive, we have publicly committed to making health our top priority. The draft Budget honours that commitment.”
“As Members will know, amendments made to the NI Act 1998 following the Fresh Start Agreement require me to set out how the Executive's Budget reconciles to the funding provided by Treasury. I provided a statement to the Assembly on 4 November that set out the funding notified by the Secretary of State. The tables at annex D show how the departmental allocations set out in the draft Budget reconcile to those amounts. <BR /> <BR />The move from single-year Budgets to a three-year Budget provides an opportunity to plan, reform and improve health services. Nevertheless, the reality is that the funding available does not allow us to do everything that we wish to do. While no Department faces a cash reduction against its opening baseline, they are undoubtedly worse off than they would have been had Health not been prioritised.”
“Again, it is important that NDNA commitments are progressed as much as possible. Details of the proposed capital outcome provided for each Department under the draft Budget is set out at annex C in the tables accompanying the statement. <BR /> <BR />The spending review also provided £162·8 million, £66·4 million and £62·2 million of financial transactions capital (FTC) over the Budget period. That may be used only for loans to or equity investment in private-sector bodies. It is proposed that, over the Budget period, £159 million be provided to the Department for Communities for housing, with £24·9 million going to the Department for the Economy. There will be £50 million provided to the investment fund in 2022-23. Those proposed allocations will leave £57 million available for allocation in 2022-23.”
“The draft Budget proposals honour the commitment to provide funding for those projects, which include regional stadia projects, the mothers and children's hospital, the Fire and Rescue Service training centre, the A5, the A6 and the Belfast transport hub. Given the importance of green growth and sustainability, particularly the move towards net zero, the draft Budget proposes allocations of £304 million of capital for that purpose. While those will not be ring-fenced, Departments can provide more detail on the green growth projects that they intend to take forward as part of their draft Budget consultations. <BR /> <BR />With the exception of ring-fenced funding, such as for city and growth deals and flagship projects, Departments will be provided with proposed capital funding envelopes within which Ministers may fund their priorities.”
“<BR /> <BR />The draft Budget also sees the first allocation of funding for city and growth deals, with some £316 million being allocated over the Budget period. As part of their deliberations on the draft Budget, the Executive have agreed the allocation of the first tranche of funding from their city and growth deals complementary fund. The allocations agreed are set out in the table provided at annex B. There will be a further opportunity for city and growth deals to submit bids as part of the second tranche of that funding. <BR /> <BR />As Members will be aware, a number of flagship capital projects were agreed by the previous Executive.”
“<BR /> <BR />My written statement set out the capital funding that is available to the Executive. As Members may recall, departmental capital allocations are determined from a zero baseline. Given the need to maximise investment, the Executive have also agreed that borrowing be accessed to increase departmental capital allocations. However, we must also be conscious that the funding needed to compete projects that have commenced should also be affordable. Therefore, the proposal is not to access the full amount of borrowing available in the first two years. The proposed draft Budget capital outcome would access reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) borrowing of £140 million, £194 million and £200 million over the three years.”
“As well as those ring-fenced allocations under the draft Budget, Departments will receive general allocations that, along with their baseline funding, may be spent at the discretion of Ministers. The effect of those ring-fenced and general allocations is that no Department faces a reduction on its opening baseline position. However, they will be worse off than if funding not been diverted to Health. Tables summarising that proposed resource department expenditure limit (DEL) outcome are attached at annex A in the tables accompanying the statement. Given the range of pressures facing Departments and the fact that those cannot be funded in full, it would be for Ministers to allocate budgets on the basis of their priorities, taking into account the commitments set out in 'New Decade, New Approach'.”
“The Executive have also agreed a number of recommendations that have arisen out of the work of the truth recovery design panel on mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and other workhouses. Funding to take those forward has also been provided to the Executive Office as part of the draft Budget. In total, it is proposed that over £419 million be provided to the Executive Office for the three schemes over the Budget period. <BR /> <BR />The draft Budget proposals also include additional allocations that will be ring-fenced for specific purposes. Full details are provided in my written statement. However, over the Budget period, those include £66 million for holiday hunger, £24 million for Supporting People, £37 million for Northern Ireland Water's price control determination and over £44 million for PSNI staffing.”
“<BR /> <BR />A number of allocations for specific departmental strategic issues have been proposed in the draft Budget. They include the continuation of welfare reform mitigations, with proposed allocations of £128·5 million over three years, and the Shared Future programme providing £36 million over three years. Funding is also proposed for victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse and victims' pensions. We remain in dispute with the British Government over the funding of the latter. However, it is important that that dispute does not impact on the delivery of payments to victims. Funding is therefore included in the draft Budget.”
“Of course, the major challenges in health and social care remain, and the Health Department could spend more. However, the draft Budget strikes a balance between prioritising health and protecting other public services. That is a difficult trade-off, but it is the financial reality that must be faced up to. <BR /> <BR />I turn to funding for other priorities and pressures. In setting out the departmental budgets for consultation, the underpinning assumption has been that Departments will find the proposed 2% reduction required to provide additional funding for health from efficiencies in existing budgets. That is challenging, but, in a three-year Budget, it creates opportunities to plan better and identify genuine efficiency savings.”
“This year, the opening budget for Health was £6·452 billion. Under the draft Budget next year, it will be £6·782 billion. Health will also receive the first £50 million available in the 2022-23 monitoring round. In 2023-24, the budget will be £6·947 billion, and, in 2024-25, it will be £7·109 billion. It will be important for the Health Minister to provide more detail on how that funding will be used as part of the draft Budget consultation.”
“On top of that, the draft Budget would provide £120 million, £182·4 million and £255·3 million over the three-year Budget to meet in full the Health Minister's bids for elective care, cancer and mental health rebuild strategies. It is also proposed that the transformation funding provided under New Decade, New Approach of £147 million over the three years be allocated in its entirety to Health. <BR /> <BR />While the Barnett consequentials are unhypothecated and may therefore be spent at the Executive's discretion, it is worth highlighting that the proposed draft Budget settlement provides the Department of Health with a budget allocation that is significantly in excess of the funding received from the Barnett consequential on health and related allocation in the spending review.”
“Therefore, the focus of the draft Budget has very much been on providing significant additional resources for transforming our health service and reducing waiting lists on a permanent basis. With the funding provided by the Chancellor's spending review falling short of what was needed to fund the Executive's priorities, prioritising our health service means a proposal for other Departments to contribute 2% of their opening baseline. That contribution would provide an additional £523 million over the three years, which would form part of an overall general allocation of £1·9 billion. That could be used at the Health Minister's discretion to help to address the significant funding pressures identified.”
“This provides a much more comprehensive package of support to businesses than the appeal mechanism, which was not designed for a general pandemic. <BR /> <BR />The Executive have also agreed to consult on increasing the rates liability of vacant properties from 50% to 75% and removing the domestic rates cap of £400,000. Having been delayed by the pandemic, a consultation will allow those policies to be delivered early in the new mandate. <BR /> <BR />I turn to departmental allocations. Even before the pandemic struck, the returning Executive agreed that health would be their top priority. That commitment was confirmed as discussions began on agreeing the draft Budget.”
“Legislation is being enacted that removes the ability of businesses to appeal their NAV on the grounds of COVID-19. Over the last two years, companies here were instead compensated for the impact of COVID-19 through rates holidays and grants. Next year, in recognition that all sectors are set to lose their right to appeal, all businesses, with the exception of larger food stores and utilities, will receive a one-month rates holiday. As some sectors have been harder hit by the pandemic, retail, tourism and hospitality, leisure, childcare and airports will receive a total of three months' rates relief. In 2023, a revaluation that will take into account the impact of COVID-19 will come into effect.”
“The Executive remain committed to increasing student places to 10,000, as outlined in 'New Decade, New Approach', including providing the necessary funding. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the Secretary of State did not confirm the funding requested in relation to the protocol or the funding due to be provided under confidence and supply in 2022-23 for mental health and severe deprivation. We anticipate that funding being confirmed in-year. <BR /> <BR />I turn to regional rates. The COVID pandemic and the cost of living crisis create significant financial pressures on businesses and households. Therefore, the Executive have agreed that the domestic and non-domestic regional rate will be frozen over the Budget period. A further £50 million has been set aside to provide rates support for businesses.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some additional funding has been confirmed by the Secretary of State from the confidence-and-supply and New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) financial packages. That includes £75 million for the medical school at Magee. The profile for the medical school is not aligned to the anticipated expenditure profile, and discussions will take place with Treasury on ensuring the most appropriate profile going forward. However, the draft Budget must reflect the profile as set out by the Secretary of State. At the time of the NDNA agreement, there were just under 4,000 students at Magee. Ulster University has recently indicated that it is actively making changes to increase the numbers to 6,000 over the period covered by the Budget.”
“Thank you for the opportunity to make a statement on the Executive's draft Budget for 2022-25. I provided Members with a written statement on Friday, and my statement today is accompanied by a draft Budget document. The publication of the document launches a 12-week consultation that will run to 7 March 2022. <BR /> <BR />As Members will be aware, the majority of the Executive's funding is based on the spending review outcome that was announced on 27 October. I have provided a separate statement setting out the funding that is provided by the spending review, and, while the review outcome is not as bad as feared, it did not provide enough funding to meet the pressures that the Executive face.”
“Yes, and I have written to the Chancellor asking him to put a zero rate of VAT on energy bills. We have not had any indication that the Treasury intends to follow through on that, but we will continue to press the case with it. Unlike us, it has the resources, if it needs to find them, to take initiatives in that regard. It is a political choice whether it does or does not. Our choice is to divide up an insufficient pie and to try to make the best use of it across a range of pressing priorities, so any support from there would be welcome.”
“All these factors contribute to ill health when people are suffering in poverty, and I hope that the Executive will continue to focus on anti-poverty measures, as well as on health and other issues.”
“As I said in answer to earlier questions, we are trying to take the initiative now because the cost of energy has risen substantially and quickly. We recognise that that throws a lot of homes into a winter heating crisis. So, in collaboration with the Minister for Communities, I put a proposition to the Executive, which I hope will get their endorsement in the very near future. <BR /> <BR />In the longer term, as I said, we are trying to prioritise. We have a very limited Budget. Even the three-year plan, which is welcome, is not enough to do what we need to do, and that will present a series of challenges across all Departments. The Executive have to prioritise.”
“That might be an issue in Enniskillen, but we will get to the bottom of it and try to get working on it as quickly as we can.”
“It has been given priority, in that Enniskillen was one of the first 10 towns to be considered. I assure the Member that when that was announced, an awful lot of towns across the North were asking, "What about us?", and rightly so. We want to make jobs more accessible, and we want to give people the type of work-life balance that working in their own area allows. The footfall generated by people staying in the area also makes a contribution to those towns. Of course, there are also the environmental benefits that the Member mentioned. <BR /> <BR />Yes, we will press ahead, as a matter of urgency, with all those hubs. The circumstances of particular councils, such as having readily available buildings in which to locate the hubs, means that they are more ready to engage.”
“I am sure that the Member knows constituents who will not apply for a job in Belfast because of the travel involved. If they have the opportunity to be based in Enniskillen for two or three days a week, that may increase the interest in people from across County Fermanagh and other border areas applying for jobs within the Civil Service, which is all to the good. It changes the dynamic, and it introduces more rural and border dwellers, which is a good thing. <BR /> <BR />We are working closely with the council. I am not sure about the exact progress of the Enniskillen hub. We want to get these schemes up and running quickly. Some are in a more ready state than others, and I am happy to respond to her on Enniskillen specifically.”
“The Member is quite right about the distance, and I concur with her on the beauty of Fermanagh. <BR /> <BR />Enniskillen has been chosen as one of the 10 locations to roll out the first phase of the Civil Service hubs. That recognises that people from the area travel very long distances to come in and out of Belfast to work. In this age of rapidly advancing technology, there is less need for people to sit at a desk in the office all the time, and, particularly with the pandemic accelerating that change, we need to recognise that. <BR /> <BR />The location of a hub in Enniskillen, which is based on the number of civil servants who travel up from County Fermanagh generally, also opens up more opportunities for people who might not yet apply to the Civil Service.”
“Yes. It is clearly the case that it is a balance. It has been evident for many years that none of our public services have the resources that they need. The three-year Budget, while welcome in terms of the ability to plan, does not get us anywhere near approaching the level of resources that we need to deliver the types of public services that we want. When we decide to prioritise one service, that has a negative impact on a range of other public services. That will be a challenge in the time ahead. People need to understand that, as part of the Budget process, if we are going to focus on a number of key areas — health being the primary one — that will have implications across the range of public services. We will have to manage that on the basis that we do not have all that we want in order to do all that we need.”
“There is an imperative not just for the health of the population, given the experience of the pandemic and to give the people who work in the health service the support that they need, but for our public finances so that we can address those issues over the next three years.”
“We have debated the prioritisation of health regularly here for the past 18 months to almost two years, as well as the fact that we wanted multi-year Budgets in order to allow us to put in place the reforms that have been put forward in various reports but which we have never had the opportunity to action. That is why I have proposed to the Executive a significant uplift for Health, which will be specifically targeted at meeting some of those areas of reform. <BR /> <BR />As well as needing to look after the health of our population, we recognise that Health continues to consume higher levels of public finances. If we do not take action now and in the time ahead, the Executive who come to set the Budget in three years' time will be faced with an even greater challenge.”
“The variants of the virus are changing, and the threat and consequent level of concern are still there, so we have to act in a responsible way. We hope that customers who are considering going out to those places also act in a responsible way so that the onus is not put just on those who work in those venues to ensure that restrictions are complied with.”
“The question of enforcement is always a challenge. We are not asking people to put themselves in any danger in order to do that. If issues arise that move us on to criminal issues, the PSNI is available to be called to deal with that. I have not had any reports as yet of incidents like that. As I said, the Executive task force needs to continue to give advice, guidance and support to people who are asked to operate restrictions that are brought in on the advice of the Executive's medical advisers. Those restrictions are brought in only when they are absolutely necessary and only for as long as they are necessary. <BR /> <BR />None of us wants to be in a position where restrictions apply, and we want to get out of them as quickly as we reasonably can.”
“I acknowledge that staffing may be an issue in smaller venues, but we are talking about people taking two seconds to show a COVID cert, and contact tracing comes off that as well. <BR /> <BR />We have a responsibility to assist businesses as much as we can with advice, guidance and support when they have to adhere to restrictions that are brought in. I hope that the Executive's task force will continue to engage with businesses to make sure that they can continue to operate the scheme for as long as it is necessary.”
“Staffing is a challenge for hospitality; it is a challenge for every sector. I have engaged with representatives in manufacturing, hospitality and retail, and, everywhere I go, staffing is a challenge. There seem to be many more jobs available than there are people to take them up. In one sense, that is good, because we may be able to get the right skills to people and get them into work, given that we have a high level of economic inactivity. <BR /> <BR />My experience of the outworking of the COVID cert, and from what I have heard south of the border — I have been in various premises there as well — is that it works smoothly enough. I have heard businesspeople say that it has not presented a significant challenge to them.”
“Certainly, I know that surveys have shown that having that flexibility to work from home when people need to and to come into the office when they need to is very popular.”
“A lot of lessons will be learned from this period, and I am keen that they are taken up. We are in a general process of reform in the Civil Service, some of which has emerged from the renewable heat incentive (RHI) report and some of which has been raised by the PAC and in Audit Office reports. There is a general sense of looking at issues. <BR /> <BR />The pandemic came in and probably accelerated the growing pattern of having more flexible working arrangements, which, clearly, is very beneficial for people who have young families. I have the early sense that productivity improved in that time, but we need an assessment over the full range of the last 18 months and into when we, hopefully, emerge fully from restrictions in order to get a sense of how that works.”
“<BR /> <BR />I can ask whether there are specific figures that show how many people are in or out, but, in my experience, it tends to vary, depending on whether people need to be in for specific reasons. It is not a case of saying, "You are all needed in the building, and you all are not". In my Department, people come in for specific reasons, and you may not see them again for another couple of weeks, apart from on Zoom calls or whatever.”
“The advice is to work from home unless you cannot do so. I am not sure whether we have the precise figure on that, but we have asked people to follow that advice. We had entered a period where we were preparing to return to work. The health advice and message in the last number of weeks was to go back to working from home where possible. I assume that that has probably reduced the number of people who are coming into Departments. <BR /> <BR />We are looking at workforce arrangements into the future. I do not think that we will return to the type of workforce and behaviour that we had. For those of us who travel in and out of Belfast every day, more blended working is probably not a bad thing. We will move to a new way and mode of working, but we are not at that point yet.”
“Some issues that have been commented on lately include difficulty in accessing the COVID certificate and the high street scheme. Those are run by other Departments, but nidirect provides that point-of-contact function for a lot of the issues that are dealt with locally. If there are specific issues, I am very happy to look into them. <BR /> <BR />I know that, when a lot of things are online, that makes it particularly difficult for people who are older or who live in rural areas where broadband coverage is not as good it is elsewhere. We have to be cognisant of that and make sure that, if people want to contact a service and get information, we do our very best to provide it for them.”
“We have a responsibility for nidirect, which is generally the first point of contact for people who are trying to access public services. I am not aware of any particular problems with that, but if the Member has some specifics, I am happy that he sends them to the Department and I will ensure that they are taken up with nidirect.”