Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“The Council commended the valuable contribution that InterTradeIreland has made through its trade and development programmes for small and medium-sized companies trading across the border and in both jurisdictions, including support through its collaboration innovation pathway and under the innovation boost programme. Ministers recognised the positive impact of the innovation and technology programmes administered by InterTradeIreland and its support for building relationships between companies and researchers. <BR /> <BR />The NSMC noted InterTradeIreland's ongoing research work in 2024, which includes a study of the business supports ecosystem across the island, research into the changing nature of trade on the island and offshore wind and hydrogen energy, as well as the ongoing work on its quarterly 'All-Island Business Monitor'.”
“With your permission, I wish to make a statement, in compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, on a meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) in trade and business development sectoral format. The meeting was held in Armagh on 23 October 2024. Minister Gordon Lyons MLA and I represented the Northern Ireland Executive. The Irish Government were represented by Peter Burke TD, Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, and Minister Burke chaired the meeting. The statement has been agreed with Minister Lyons, and I make the statement on behalf of us both. <BR /> <BR />The NSMC welcomed the overall achievements of InterTradeIreland since a previous sectoral meeting in April 2024, including achieving a business development value of £82 million or €94 million and providing crucial investor readiness supports.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Those who vote against the regulations should understand that it will not be possible to pay anyone that increase. We will move with all haste towards closure and ensure that the Committee is served with whatever information it feels it requires and that we get to a space where the Assembly can ratify the decision in principle taken by the Executive.”
“<BR /> <BR />The last point, made by Gerry Carroll, was about the loss in the intervening years as people have sat on their hands — others are coming forward now to try to clear up the mess — of what would have been available for environmentally sound schemes that would contribute to our carbon reduction targets. We cannot access that until we have brought the RHI debacle — the scheme that was put forward all those years ago — to a conclusion. <BR /> <BR />In anticipation of this not going through today, I will ask officials to move to closure. We will develop propositions and sufficient information to go to the Committee and close the scheme. Today's proposition was an interim step to give an uplift to people over the winter, but it seems that that is not going to be possible.”
“<BR /> <BR />On timing, a number of Members have said, "Bring this back urgently" and, "Come back, and let us see what we can do with this". Tomorrow is the last sitting day before 1 November, and another paper will not be brought back before tomorrow. There will therefore be no tariff uplift over the winter. Those who decide, for whatever reason, to vote against the measure, while complaining about the hardship that people face, are effectively deciding to give people no tariff uplift over the winter; that is the upshot of today's vote. If that is what people choose to do, they should do so with their eyes wide open, and they should explain that to people who anticipated an uplift in the tariff over the winter. There is no time to bring this back and fix it for this winter.”
“A summary of the consultation document was provided to people, and that document will form part of the eventual move to close the scheme. A detailed summary of the responses was provided. An overview was also provided of the tariff calculation methodology, including information on the change to the main variable, which is the fuel price differential. Detail was also provided on the Great Britain tariff by way of a link to the GB tariffs, which are in the public domain. There is no single GB tariff: they range from 11·13p to 3·3p. The uplift that we proposed was higher than that. There has been an attempt to provide people with information. If they still feel that they have insufficient information, that is unfortunate.”
“I am glad that at least some Members acknowledged that officials were with the Committee twice, that there was further engagement and that, at every stage, we endeavoured to provide information, including by my writing to people in recent days to give them the information that they were seeking. That is Members' entitlement, of course, and the particular entitlement of members of the Committee. Whether the information was clear enough or whether people fully understood it is one issue; the volume of information is another. <BR /> <BR />There is an issue that has been misunderstood or, in some cases, wilfully misrepresented. The consultation exercise relates to the future of the scheme — its closure — not to the tariff uplift, which is a temporary measure in the move towards that. The consultation document would be brought forward.”
“Given the fuel price volatility that is expected over a 20-year period, the intended internal rate of return will be higher in some years and lower in others. It is important to note that the Department did not seek any clawback of payments at times when it was necessary to reduce tariffs, and we are confident that the revised tariff uplift would provide participants with a fair return that could be in place for the coming winter. <BR /> <BR />Questions were asked and a number of points were made about the level of information and the consultation.”
“I am a bit bemused by the DUP's position. This is your mess that I am trying to clean up. You had two or, I think, three Economy Ministers in the previous Executive, and you did not take any steps to bring the scheme to a close, yet now you are advising me on what needs to be done urgently to do that. We sat through the previous Executive, asking your Ministers to bring forward papers on RHI, but we never received any. We have the position now that I am trying to clean up that mess. It was the "Fill your boots" philosophy that has landed us in the mess: every issue with this has flowed from that initial decision of your party. Nonetheless, I will clean up the mess, and I will do so with the backing of the Executive and the Assembly in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />Backdated pay was mentioned by Sinéad McLaughlin.”
“The proposition, which the Executive have agreed, is that we close the scheme in line with the New Decade, New Approach commitment and, as an interim step — not as part of the closure or the future of the scheme — attempt to increase the tariff for a number of the boiler operators over the winter. It appears, however, that that has not found favour with Members. That, of course, is the nature of the democracy that we live in, and that is fair enough.”
“I thank Members for their contributions to today's debate and thank the Economy Committee for its engagement with officials. <BR /> <BR />There seems to be a strong view in the House that the regulations should not go ahead, and so be it. The uplifted tariff was an attempt to give some recompense to people over the winter.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“In particular, fuel cost assumptions have been based on a fuel reference period over a number of years, as opposed to a spot price, in an attempt to provide greater accuracy. <BR /> <BR />It is important that the higher tariffs are introduced and are in place from 1 November in time for the winter period. If the tariffs are not in place by 1 November, the next opportunity to increase them will be well into 2025. I hope that Members agree that enabling participants of the scheme to benefit this winter is an urgent priority. The increase is calculated in a way that is fair to the taxpayer and scheme participants. I hope that Members agree to provide those participants with a substantial uplift to the tariffs as we work towards the scheme's closure.”
“The draft regulations therefore substitute a new schedule 5 into the principle regulations, the effect of which will be to increase tariffs for accredited biomass boilers within the small, lower-medium and upper-medium biomass bands from 1 November 2024. <BR /> <BR />The tariffs represent a significant increase: for example, the tier-1 tariff, for owners of lower-medium biomass installations — a group that represents the vast majority of boiler owners — will be uplifted from 2·1p per kilowatt-hour to 5·1p per kilowatt-hour. That is over double the current tariff and an increase of in the region of £5,000 per annum for a typical participant in that band. <BR /> <BR />The revised tariffs are based on updated assumptions.”
“The current Executive have agreed to the closure of the scheme, with an interim increase in tariffs. That decision was taken by the First Minister and deputy First Minister over the summer and under urgent procedure. The scheme closure will include a payment mechanism that is fair to scheme participants and to the public purse. Work is ongoing to develop the proposals. When that work has been completed, I will bring the matter back to the Executive and, subsequently, to the Assembly for approval. <BR /> <BR />The draft legislation relates to the interim increase in tariffs. The current tariffs for small and medium biomass boilers were introduced in 2019 using information that was available at that time. However, substantial volatility in fuel prices means that it is appropriate to increase the tariff.”
“I seek the Assembly's approval of the draft Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024. The 'New Decade, New Approach' document, which was published in 2020, states:”
“If she had listened to my previous answers, she would find that I have done so directly. I am happy to repeat it for her so that she can understand. I apologise for not engaging in all the facts in relation to the due diligence issues that we talked about in some of the interviews. Had I known all the facts, I certainly would not have made those comments.”
“Corporately, the party, which was dealing with the issue, was not aware of any of the actions of any of those three people. Therefore, we were not in a position to advise the British Heart Foundation of any matter in relation to his employment. That has been put out by the First Minister as a matter of record, and I concur with it. I also concur with all her sentiments in relation to the British Heart Foundation and those of my party president.”
“We were not aware that two people had given him references until the Wednesday before our ard-fheis, which was at the end of September, and we were not aware until last Thursday that that had been verified by a person from HR.”
“First, the foundation has not been slurred by me. Secondly, although a person was informed, we learned of that only last Thursday. The party leadership, which was responsible for dealing with Mr McMonagle, was not aware of his movements, engagements or employment after he was suspended from our party.”
“As I said, the university has autonomy. It may well be the case that your colleague beside you on the Committee invites it up here to have a discussion about the issue. The Department is not involved in the university's recruitment processes. I am very happy to ask questions and seek information from the university, but, as I said, it is responsible for its own recruitment processes. The university has outlined how it appointed in accordance with the rules and regulations that govern it — I saw a public response that it provided. However, if others wish to interrogate that further, that is a matter for them.”
“The university is an autonomous body when it comes to its appointments and recruitment. That question has been sent to me in written form, and the response that was delivered to people is that that is the university's responsibility. I saw a public statement somewhere in which it outlined the appointments process for the, I think, two posts that it created for Dr Farry and another person. The university has responsibility for that: it is not a responsibility for the Department. The university has autonomy in how it makes appointments.”
“Newry, Mourne and Down District Council intends to write to me shortly to set out how it believes that any underspend could be utilised. On the basis of discussion with council officials, it is anticipated that it will suggest that the money be reallocated elsewhere, such as some being reallocated to the Department for Infrastructure to administer a flood mitigation scheme. We are very happy to receive those propositions, look at areas that perhaps have not received support and try to ensure that the entirety of that money is spent on flood mitigation and support in that area.”
“The total amount allocated to the Department for the Economy for flood support is £9·7 million. That includes £1·1 million for the £7,500 flood support scheme and up to £8·6 million to cover costs associated with the enhanced flood support scheme, business hardship schemes and the reimbursement of council clean-up costs. As the councils are still administering those schemes, it is not possible to provide an accurate estimate of the projected underspend.”
“As I said, I offered an opinion. That opinion has been corrected by the Chief Constable's view that, if someone had information — it is very clear that I did not, nor did my party leadership — it would not be inappropriate to pass it on to a subsequent potential employer. I am very happy for that to be corrected. If that is the view of the Chief Constable, I am very happy to accept that.”
“As I said in response to a previous question, had you listened to the full interview, you would understand that I made it clear that I had no information about Mr McMonagle. I then went on to have a theoretical discussion with the journalist about what the responsibility of an employing organisation would be in those circumstances. I accept the Chief Constable's take on that and am happy to bow to his greater knowledge of the law on such matters. I am content with that.”
“That is why we continue to operate skills academies and other bespoke skills training support for specific areas of need, such as in manufacturing in Mid Ulster and fintech in areas of Belfast. We continue to work on that. Dialogue with businesses is critical to making sure that we are clear about the kind of careers pipeline that is needed to grow the economy and the businesses that are already well placed to deliver that.”
“We have a careers advisory council, so all those matters are interlinked. Business organisations and people with senior business experience are involved in that council. Ongoing contact on careers between ourselves, businesses, trade unions and others is critical, because we have a very fast-moving and growing technological sector. <BR /> <BR />Our reputation is strongest on skills. When we talk to people internationally about investing here, the number-one factor for them is skills. We need to work collaboratively with businesses, colleges, universities and other training providers to make sure that we are as up to date and flexible as we can be on what particular skills are required at any given time.”
“We have been working on that diligently, and I hope that we will be able to make some announcements on it in the not-too-distant future.”
“Sorry, I beg your pardon. I picked you up wrong. <BR /> <BR />The Minister of Education and I agreed, at the first Executive meeting following the restoration of the Assembly, I think, on the importance of developing consistent careers advice. We have worked together on that, and continue to do so, and are making substantial progress. We want to ensure that careers advice is consistent and delivered uniformly to every child to ensure that every school has access to it. That has not been the case in the past and it is not the case now. We want to make sure that that advice is as up to date as it can be in a very fast-moving technological world. Part of that will be a careers portal that will allow parents to access the same information, rather than having to rely on what is delivered through the schools.”
“I presume that the Member is referring to the tourism strategy.”
“I have made a commitment, in my previous ministerial posts and, certainly, in this one, to co-design as it is the best way to develop policy, be it on employment rights, with the trade unions and business organisations, or any of the areas in which we are trying to develop and grow the economy. That is why we set up a co-design group for social enterprise and have working groups on tourism and other matters: those engagements reflect the best. Policy is strongest when you engage with the people who are at the coalface and are on the receiving end of that policy. I am absolutely committed to that, and I very much value the input of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions in that and in a range of areas that the Department has been dealing with. I look forward to continued engagement with it.”
“We will obviously assess the responses to the consultation, and we will begin the legislative process next year with the clear intent to bring the Bill through the Assembly processes before the mandate is out.”
“The Member may be aware that the consultation closed on 30 September. We had 192 responses to the consultation, which is quite significant. As I am sure that the Member is aware, we did a lot of pre-consultation, as well as the consultation during the process, and will continue the dialogue with those organisations, particularly business organisations and trade unions. Those have been productive conversations. Where we have managed, on many occasions now, to get trade unions into the room with business organisations, those have been productive conversations because they lead to a much greater understanding of the balance between protecting workers' rights and the needs of businesses at times.”
“My party will certainly conduct an inquiry into the processes that were applied, and we will seek outside assistance on that. I have to say that this matter is not unique to my party. Your party had issues with a councillor in South Down, which brought it into conflict with Rape Crisis when it refused to suspend him even after he had been charged. All of us have had lessons to learn over the years in how to deal with those issues, and all of us need to improve. My party is no different to any other in that regard. Of course, my party will look at the lessons to be learned from this. We will seek professional advice to ensure that our processes are as robust and safe as they can be. Safeguarding is our primary concern. We need to ensure that the processes reflect that.”
“I am happy to share in the apology that the First Minister made and that which was offered by my party president yesterday.”
“First, had you listened to the interview in full, you would have heard me say, on a number of occasions, that my party had no information on Mr McMonagle's whereabouts beyond the time when we suspended him, so I was not, in fact, in a position to advise the British Heart Foundation on his employment. The party leadership was not aware that he worked for that organisation at that time. I went on to offer an opinion on what the process might be if someone had information, and what jeopardy there might be in that regard. I am happy to accept the Chief Constable's view on that. I absolutely concur on the due diligence issue: I accept absolutely that I did not have all the information and that, therefore, I should not have commented on that.”
“To date, £152 million has been committed to the Magee campus expansion. That includes £38 million from the Shared Island Fund for a new teaching block and investments from city deals, the Inclusive Future Fund and Ulster University's own reserves. Additionally, my Department's 2024-25 budget included £4 million in resource funding and £14·7 million in capital funding for Magee's expansion. Those funds are being used to support additional student places, enhance the physical environment, carry out communications and marketing activities, and acquire land and buildings.”
“The commitment to 10,000 students at Magee is now part of the draft Programme for Government, which means that it is a whole-Executive commitment. As I said, it is my intention to raise the report and the asks within it with Executive colleagues and to ask that they engage. A lot of departmental officials are already engaging, and the work has been productive so far. If issues arise that present obstacles or barriers, we will want to address those as quickly as possible, and, if need be, I will look to Executive colleagues to support us in that.”
“The task force is on course to produce the final action plan by the end of the year.”
“The interim report emphasises the need for a coordinated, cross-government approach to achieve the expansion of Magee. It identifies asks for various Departments, and I have written to my Executive colleagues to secure their commitment to achieving those. <BR /> <BR />Progress is being made on the asks. For example, I recently announced my intention to provide access to tuition fee loans to graduate-entry medical school students here, in collaboration with the Department of Health. Officials are finalising the membership and terms of reference for the cross-departmental group, building on ongoing engagement with Departments. The Department of Health is already a member of the task force, and Department for Infrastructure officials will be presenting to the task force this week.”
“Where there is perhaps in some council areas not the same level of economic development capacity among council staff, we expect Invest NI to support and mentor in order to raise the level of economic activity and council staff's economic skills. Moreover, we expect it to work directly with local economic partnerships to make sure that they are as adept as they can be in advancing and articulating their economic needs and that those needs are delivered on in the time ahead.”
“Part of the work that is being developed now is a consequence of the Lyons report on Invest NI, which found that it was much too Belfast-centric. It needed a stronger and more dynamic regional presence. Critical to that are the personnel that Invest NI has in its office and what they will do. That is the discussion that we have been having. <BR /> <BR />Invest NI presented its own business plan on the heels of my announcement of our regional development plan, so we expect significant and targeted growth in activity across regional offices and specific engagement of Invest NI staff with council staff.”
“We will work through the detail in the time ahead. I have not been very specific, other than to say to councils that it has to be a genuine partnership. It is therefore not just money to supplement what councils had already intended to spend. We anticipate and expect people who have an economic input in local areas to be part of that. The enterprise agencies have played a critical role in start-ups and in business growth throughout the areas where they are based, so I would be very surprised if they do not form part of the local economic partnerships.”
“Regional balance is a commitment in the draft Programme for Government. In line with that commitment, I announced a new approach to regional economic development last week. Invest NI subsequently launched its business strategy for consultation. In the strategy, the new regional operating model is prioritised. <BR /> <BR />The business strategy includes a commitment to increase the headcount of regional offices by an initial 40%. It also commits Invest NI to delivering 65% of its investments outside the Belfast metropolitan area by the end of the three-year period. It is the first time that Invest NI has set corporate regional targets. My Department and Invest NI are firmly committed to delivering greater regional economic balance.”
“As the Member will know, I introduced that when I was Minister of Finance. It sits at 10%, with the intent to move it to 20% in due course. From conversations with the current Minister of Finance, I understand that she is looking very closely at that. We want to ensure that the sector is ready to engage with that increase in business opportunities. Bodies such as the social enterprise co-design group are looking at strengthening the commercial side of social enterprises — their boards and leadership — so that they are much fitter to engage with the opportunities that will arise from a higher level of social value and procurement. I am sure that the Minister of Finance will be able to give the Member a time frame for that. I know that she is looking at it very seriously.”
“As I said, the co-design group has been working on that. As the Member will remember, one of the first initiatives that I took when I came into office was to up the funding to social enterprise and give it a higher profile in its contribution to the economy. We are developing an action plan; the social enterprise co-design group is working on that. I have met the group in recent times to hear from it. I expect to have that action plan delivered to me very soon. I will publish that and share it with the Committee in due course.”
“The independent report on community wealth building recommended a strategy for the sector. The action plan will tackle the strategic issues that face the sector. By taking a more flexible approach, there will be a quicker impact on the ground for the sector as it seeks to grow and expand sustainable social businesses in the North.”
“I met the social enterprise co-design group recently to receive an update on its progress. The group’s initial focus is on strengthening the commercial base of social enterprises. Early recommendations include appointing champions in Invest NI, InterTradeIreland and local councils; building stronger leadership skills for social entrepreneurs and their board members; and better use of procurement frameworks. The initial action plan is being finalised, and I hope to publish it in the coming weeks.”