Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“In the first instance, it will come from what is left in the COVID pot. As I said, the sooner that we have accurate figures on sectors that have been left out, the better. As it stands, the scheme is for two weeks and a limited number of businesses in the overall number across the North. Therefore, as I said, it will come from the COVID pot in the first instance. If we get into much wider geographical restrictions or restrictions across the entire Six Counties, that is a conversation that we will need to have with Treasury. That is why I want to begin that dialogue with the Chancellor. In the first instance, we will address it from what is left in the pot of COVID money.”
“My presentation to the Executive this morning outlined that not only does the scheme need to be fit for purpose in order to try to get it on the ground quickly to address the ongoing costs to businesses that have had to close down but, because it might last for a longer time, it has to be extendable — we had to have a proposal built into it that it could be extended — and it has to be transferable, so that the same scheme that would apply in the north-west could transfer to other council areas where that need might arise. Hopefully, it will not arise elsewhere, but, given the increase in the spread of the virus right across the North, there is a distinct possibility that it will. Therefore, that was part of the proposition that I put to the Executive this morning; that it be a transferable scheme.”
“Since then, we have been trying to find ways in which to address the sectors that missed out. The complexity of doing that is shown by the fact that it is taking so long to try to achieve that.”
“Undoubtedly. I am not saying that everything was 100% foolproof. However, we were tasked with delivering support to businesses in as fast a fashion as we could possibly do it. That was the most accurate data that we had on who is in business and paying business rates, so that is the scheme that was used. I am sure that there are other sectors. Of course, that immediately points up people who do not have their own premises, work in shared premises, work from home or are self-employed; all those sectors. However, that required a set of data that probably would have had to come from HMRC. It would have been much more difficult to access and not possible for us to verify here because we do not have that data. <BR /> <BR />Any scheme that we used would always have had its downside. The scheme that we used got money out rapidly.”
“That would be very effective even if the scheme had taken weeks or months to deliver, but it was turned around in days and weeks. Therefore, it was a very accurate way in which to do it. Through it, the Executive managed to get support out on the ground very quickly. Had we started to set up a scheme that required a lot of applications and verifications, many of those businesses would have gone out of business by the time that we got support to them. I commend very much the staff in LPS who were involved in that work. They worked tirelessly and dealt with a range of appeals. I can take only the feedback that I get from elected representatives. By and large, it has been very positive.”
“I want to commend LPS staff for the work that they did. Recently, I had discussions with them. People worked seven days a week to get that scheme turned around and support out on the ground very quickly. I am sure that, as with many sections of government, Departments and parts of Departments, people will have their criticisms. However, that scheme was delivered in a way in which probably no other previous scheme had been delivered in the history of the Civil Service, with a rapid turnaround. <BR /> <BR />LPS had the information and data to ensure that we knew where businesses were, who was entitled to the small business rate relief scheme and who was paying business rates, and it got that support out very quickly. It was done with well over 90% accuracy.”
“I am always careful to use the term "happy" about things. Generally, with finances, we are never happy, but, if we are satisfied, it is a good start.”
“We have had discussion on ongoing support that the Treasury has directly provided: the furlough scheme, the loan schemes and the support for the self-employed. We have had ongoing discussion on that, and the actual allocation for business support is to come out of the COVID money that we got as a Barnett consequential from Treasury. It is not that we have been in dialogue with them about support for those sectors. We will be in dialogue with them if we face further restrictions, and that is the purpose of the meeting that I have sought urgently today. If we go into further restrictions, there will be a need for further interventions from Whitehall, and that is the sort of dialogue that we will have, hopefully in the near future.”
“It is obviously up to the Department that is dealing with them to bring those forward, and the sooner we get them, the better the position the Executive will be in to offer the support that is needed.”
“I hope that that will be as soon as possible. As I said, I spoke to some ministerial colleagues on Thursday, on the side of the Executive meeting, and I asked for, as quickly as possible, indicative figures because I knew not only that we were we dealing the sectors that had not yet had their needs addressed but that, on Thursday, the discussion was coming around to further restrictions and the ongoing support needed, particularly for businesses in the Derry and Strabane areas. You recognise that there are more pressures coming from another angle, so the quicker we can have figures on the sectors that have been readily identified, the quicker the Executive will have a clear sense of what finances they have to play with. I am hopeful that they will come very soon.”
“This is specifically about trying to target businesses that have been impacted by the restrictions. It is to ensure that we give them some assistance with their ongoing costs. Hopefully, when the restrictions can be lifted, they can get back into more productive business again.”
“People can re-furlough over the rest of this month. I regret that the scheme is coming to an end at the end of this month, and, as I have said many times, I do not think that the scheme that will be put in its place will meet the same targets and outcomes that the original furlough scheme did. If employees are not able to go to work over the next two to three weeks, they can avail themselves of the furlough scheme again. <BR /> <BR />The package of support that we have is for those who are most directly affected by this, such as those who have to close. I recognise that, in broader terms, the north-west needs much more in economic packages for regeneration, and that is why the money that we are investing in city deals is very important to the north-west.”
“<BR /> <BR />I intend to bring a paper, and we have to work with the Department for Communities because that Department will pay out the assistance. The Department of Finance, through LPS, works to ensure that we can try to devise a scheme that is effective, that gets quickly to the businesses that need it and that has a rapid turnaround. When those proposals are developed, I will seek Executive approval for them in conjunction with the Department for the Economy, and hopefully we will get support onto the ground as quickly as we can.”
“I signalled to the Executive last Thursday that I had already asked for work to be undertaken in the Department on that, and I made a presentation to this morning's Executive meeting on options to provide support. We want to ensure that businesses that have been forced to close and have been most directly affected by the additional restrictions that have been put in place can receive some support as quickly as possible, that it is not overly bureaucratic, that it gets quickly to the businesses that need it and that it supports the ongoing costs that they will have. Clearly, this is a very challenging time for all businesses across the North, not just in the north-west, but, obviously, there are additional restrictions on hospitality businesses there.”
“I can get the Member the full amount, because there have been a number of allocations over the past few months. I am trying to think whether the latest one was for £20 million or £40 million, but we did make an allocation. It is not all that the councils have asked for or that the Department for Communities has asked for in relation to councils. We always get more bids than funding is available for, so we have to cut our cloth accordingly. I can get the figure for the total allocation to councils since the pandemic came upon us and provide it to the Member.”
“No later than the last COVID allocation, which I announced, I think, last week in the House, there was a contribution to councils to cover economic recovery activity that they are involved in but also some of the associated costs for those councils.”
“In the first instance, we have protected business rates. Even with the rates holiday that we proposed, we protected councils' intake, if you like, from that, so councils will not lose out over the four-month rates holiday for all businesses, extended to the end of the financial year, or the eight-month rates holiday for tourism, hospitality, leisure and retail. We ensured that the cost of that was borne by the Executive from the COVID money that we received, so councils do not take a hit. As a matter of fact, they are probably in a better position because, undoubtedly, some businesses would have gone out of business without that intervention and councils would have lost the rates from those businesses completely, so they are in a better position. <BR /> <BR />We have, over the course of COVID allocations, made funding available.”
“Yes, and, if it is the case that we have confirmed that to her, I am happy to reconfirm that in writing to you. I just want to make sure we have the detail correct in relation to what that Barnett funding amounts to. People see a large figure for an allocation in Britain and do not realise that we have a much smaller percentage of that, so it is to ensure that people are clear in relation to that. <BR /> <BR />I am in favour of environmental schemes and schemes that support a green economic recovery, as well as in general terms. Environmental schemes are hugely important to protect society, the ecology and the landscape, so I would support that. I look forward to any propositions from Departments on that.”
“I am not aware of whether or not we have received additional Barnett funding. The concentration in recent times has been on getting the COVID Barnett allocations. I will make some enquiries in the Department and respond to the Member in writing.”
“I think that we want to ensure that people who have procurement expertise have a function. There is a heavy population on that board of almost ministerial representatives — senior officials acting on behalf of a Minister. What we want — I am not saying this in a derogatory way — is a more professional approach to procurement. The Executive should set policy for procurement, and we should ensure that people who have expertise can give guidance to help in the development of that policy. We are looking at a more radically changed approach to the Procurement Board, and I will bring propositions to the Executive in the not-too-distant future.”
“I will be taking proposals to the Executive in the not-too-distant future.”
“As I said, a range of Departments does its own capital works, but we want to make sure that we get the best value for money. We are living in increasingly financially challenged times, so we have to ensure that all public spend is done as best and as efficiently as possible.”
“There is work to be done on ensuring that major projects are delivered on time. Of course, that takes in the responsibilities and remit of a range of Departments, and we want to ensure that every assistance that can be given to Departments is given to them. We are therefore looking at, if you like, the construct of the Procurement Board in order to make sure that it is as effective as it can possibly be. Policies that have been agreed by the Executive on public procurement then have to be bought into, supported and rolled out by all Departments. <BR /> <BR />We also have to ensure that a more effective approach is taken to major capital spends. Of course, procurement is not the only sector of a Department that contributes to that.”
“I agree with the Member. That is becoming increasingly important, not just here but in other areas, such as in the South and in Britain, where the idea of social value in public procurement and the spending of public finances has become an increasingly important feature. We will look at the governance arrangements, but when the Procurement Board does its work, we will want to ensure that the ethos of social value is very much built into its policies so that there is a very clear understanding among those who want to tender for public contracts and provide public services that there is an expectation that the ethos of social value is very much part of what they will be asked to contribute.”
“I plan to chair a meeting of the Procurement Board in November. Public procurement expenditure is approximately 25% of the Executive’s Budget, and it is an important function to assist the local economy recover from the impact of COVID-19. I intend to ask the board to agree future strategic priorities for public procurement. Those will include an enhanced focus on social value, increased opportunities for small businesses and a strategy to deliver construction projects faster. There is also a need to review the governance structure for public procurement to ensure that the Executive achieve the best value for their expenditure.”
“That means that if various other Departments are sitting on land banks that are of no use to them, those should be made available in order to meet that target. <BR /> <BR />I have had that engagement with the Department for Communities and received a presentation on its housing strategy. I want to make sure that the work that we are doing on compiling the register, making it accessible and pressing Departments for assessments of the assets that they own all contributes to the outcome that the Member has talked about.”
“I have engaged with the Minister and her senior team in the Department for Communities. I received a presentation from them on the Department's housing strategy and know that they want to look at a number of potential solutions to identifying more land. Some of that involves looking at the ability to vest land, but there are enormous tracts of publicly owned land and many buildings in city centres, towns and rural areas. Priorities have been set by the Executive, and housebuilding is one of them — it is not just a priority for the Department for Communities but an Executive priority — and, in the first instance, the public sector needs to make sure that all the work of the Executive goes towards supporting that.”
“That means making sure that what assets we have are used properly, that where they are not needed they are surrendered for better use, and that where we are paying for assets we get out of them in a way that is the most advantageous to the public purse.”
“I am sure that we can. However, I assume that it is done on a case-by-case basis and that there is no overall formula for addressing it. It is not surprising that landlords and those who pay the rent have different views on what an asset is worth and what is required for the surrender of that asset. <BR /> <BR />The overarching work that we are doing on a register is to give us a sense of where all those properties are, what state they are in, what they are being used for, how much it is costing the public purse to maintain them, what needs there are in the community — should it be through community asset transfer — the intentions of private developers, and the need for land for housing, through the housing associations. All those things come into play, and we want to see the most efficient use of assets.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is clear — this is with regard to an earlier question about a new means of working — that the Executive, Departments and arm's-length bodies will probably require less property and office space than they previously owned. It is important that we, centrally, have a sense of what that is and that it is publicly available so that people have opportunities to bid for it or offer to buy it or, indeed, that there are opportunities for community asset transfer, which I think will become increasingly important so that we are not sitting on and paying for land that could otherwise be put to good use.”
“Yes. I agree with that assessment. The Executive, through their Departments, own an enormous volume of assets, as do arm's-length bodies. We have huge pressures with regard to housing and finding land for housing, and rates are paid out of the public purse on many of those assets. Therefore, to achieve effectiveness, efficiency, savings and better outcomes, it is up to Departments to make a more effective use of the land and property that they own. I think that a central register of property assets linking together all the data related to each asset in a single, easily accessible database is a vital first step to realising those opportunities.”
“My officials in Land and Property Services (LPS) have been engaging with all Departments to review their land and property asset data, with a view to collating, mapping and validating it. To date, good progress has been made in capturing the details of more than 900 Department for Communities sites, and the relevant asset information has been made public through a map-viewing tool on the Government’s OpenDataNI website. <BR /> <BR />Work is also well under way to capture the detail of more than 7,000 assets from various Departments, and those will be made public in stages, beginning with buildings, with land assets at a later date. The validation of the assets of the Executive Office and the Department of Finance is being undertaken at present, with the next public release of data expected around December of this year.”
“I will be making a statement to the House tomorrow morning with regard to ongoing work that we have done with Scotland and Wales in jointly pressing for financial flexibilities, so that is a very early discussion that we are having with the Treasury. We have become aware, only in the last week, that there will not be an autumn Budget from Whitehall. However, there is a comprehensive spending review, and we want to engage with that to get more certainty on the funding available to us and also to press home the arguments that we have been making for some time with regard to financial flexibilities.”
“The Executive produced a framework document to guide us in our discussions. That document is the property of the Executive Office. I am sure that, if the Member wishes it to be published, she can make that request to the Executive Office. I simply used it as a framework for the basis on which to make recommendations to the Executive for the distribution of money.”
“When we transfer a responsibility, the funding to deliver some schemes goes with that. That will be the resource for the responsibility and the schemes. I am sure that when the Department for Infrastructure and the Department for Communities took on additional responsibilities, they did so knowing that they would need additional support for those. <BR /> <BR />I have no plans, and I do not think that the Executive plan, to take responsibilities away from the Department for the Economy. We are facing into a very serious economic crisis, and the Department for the Economy will play a key and leading role in relation to all that. So, the Executive are trying to balance not only the funding available but the resources to make sure that we meet all the challenges that are ahead of us.”
“We have set aside that funding, and the Executive have agreed that it will be held to meet the pressures on those sectors. Additional pressures are coming in, too, and we want to ensure that the pot that we have stretches to meet all of that. It took some time to address that. I regret that that was the case, but there were, if you like, overlaps between various Departments to try to get those issues addressed. I have asked that figures be brought forward to us as quickly as possible so that we can make an assessment of what is required to meet the needs of those sectors and what may be left over from some of the new pressures that we now face. We have to do that balancing exercise. There is a commitment to get schemes to meet the needs of those sectors, and funding is set aside for that purpose.”
“Following the allocations announced on 24 September, the following funding is being held centrally: £0·4 million for transfer to the Department for Transport in England for the ferry operator scheme; £55·2 million for further sectoral support and currently unforeseen PPE requirements; and £600 million pending the Department of Health’s assessment of pressures for the remainder of 2020-21.”
“Yes, I do. Not only that but a paper that I had cleared at the Executive this morning provides for that. Agency workers have provided key support for our public services, and, in many cases, they have not enjoyed the same rights as Civil Service workers. Therefore, we have taken measures to try to address that and to ensure that agency workers are entitled to annual leave and to leave for medical or dental necessities. We want to ensure that and to ensure that they enjoy the same rights as those working permanently in the Civil Service, because they provide the same level of service as civil servants.”
“It is a balance between trying to catch up on work that has been lost and ensuring that staff are able to do that. One way of being able to do that is to have that availability of annual leave so that people can recharge their batteries and get back to work in a productive fashion.”
“We have to be flexible, given the circumstances that we are facing, but we also have to bear in mind the fact that staff are entitled to take leave. It is good for their physical and mental health to be able to take leave. A huge backlog has been created by the circumstances that we are facing, but that does not mean that staff should be forced to work 24/7 in order to address that backlog.”
“The Civil Service recognises that it is important for its staff to use annual leave and actively encourages its staff to do so for their own well-being, through departmental messaging and comprehensive guidance via the staff coronavirus NICS hub. <BR /> <BR />Although the capacity for staff to take leave, and the policy on staff taking annual leave in the Civil Service, has not changed as a direct result of COVID-19, there have been some inevitable exceptions to the timing of leave being taken by those, for example, classed as key workers for example, due to operational demands. Those are being managed on a case-by-case basis.”
“Interestingly, you can see the number of staff who are spending a long time trekking in and out to Belfast every day. Of course, we must have a balance, because we also want to have active city centres. However, there had already been a need for regional hubs, and I think that that has been accelerated. Those will also be effective in meeting the Executive's targets on carbon reductions. Dialogue had been taking place with the trade unions, and many civil servants are looking forward to it.”
“That work was ongoing in the Department and predates the COVID pandemic. As is the case with a lot of working practices, it will have been accelerated by the current experience. We need to find not only better ways for people to work from home if they cannot travel but ways in which they can work in smaller units and be more productive. We will want to look at a range of potential sites around the region. Yes, of course, Derry is under consideration, as is Omagh, given that the Member referred to the north-west. That is by no means an exhaustive list. <BR /> <BR />The work is in the early stages. One of our first exercises, particularly in some of the city Departments, will be to track where staff are travelling to and from in their home-to-work journeys.”
“My Department is planning to establish regional hubs to address regional balance and to contribute to reducing emissions by cutting down on the number of cars travelling long distances. <BR /> <BR />As Members will appreciate, COVID-19 has had a substantial impact on how we conduct our business, now and into the future, and in many respects has accelerated our thinking about new ways of working. My officials are analysing data and the impact of new technologies on the wider public-sector network to determine where the hubs might be best located within the region to maximise the potential benefits.”
“We work very closely with the Department of Health on a range of matters, not least the significant issues that are facing us during the pandemic. Minister Swann has acknowledged, on a number of occasions, that the Department of Finance and the Department of Health have a very close working relationship. We need that, because Health is the biggest-spending Department, and we need to ensure that the money that it is spending is spent in such a way that it meets the scrutiny requirements of the Finance Department. I have no doubt that we have worked very well. I am sure that the Member can attest more than I can to the delivery of the Health Minister in her constituency, but I am happy to continue that very productive working relationship with the Department and the Minister.”
“I am not familiar with the building, but I have no reason to doubt what the Member says about it. Of course, we want to see the proper standard of facilities, particularly in relation to healthcare in the current climate but, generally speaking, also in terms of public services for all citizens. I am glad that what is clearly a significant requirement for an improved facility in Lisnaskea is now moving through the business case approval process, and I hope and certainly will ensure that the officials in my Department respond to that as quickly as possible, and then it is simply a question of moving on to the development stage of that.”
“The Department of Health submitted a revised business case for the new Lisnaskea health and care centre to my Department on 17 September. Department of Finance officials are reviewing the business case in line with established guidelines and aim to respond to the Department of Health as speedily as possible.”
“The earlier we have some indication of what those figures may be, the sooner we will know what we now face, which is some localised restrictions and the support required for that, and what the Executive have to try to deliver support there, because we have a very limited COVID pot left from which to distribute support.”
“The question relates to the sectors that have not yet been addressed in terms of support during this. Of course, in recent weeks, there was an agreement between the First Minister and the deputy First Minister and the Department for the Economy and the Department for Infrastructure that Infrastructure would take some responsibility for delivering on that. I have spoken to the Infrastructure Minister and have said that I would like to see, as quickly as possible, some figures on that. <BR /> <BR />As you will know from my statement last week, we have set aside a pot of money to try to cover the costs that may arise from meeting the needs of those sectors.”
“My view is that the scheme now outlined to begin from 1 November is very much substandard in comparison with the furlough scheme. It will place a significant challenge on and pose a question to employers about whether to retain workers, and, consequently, that will lead to a greater number of redundancies. That will be a challenge. In recent times, the Executive have been allocating money for economic recovery, and, of course, we will continue to try to stimulate economic recovery and protect jobs wherever we can. <BR /> <BR />In regard to the possibility of further lockdowns, as I said, I have written to the Chancellor today to seek an urgent meeting, because there is some indication that there may be further support if we are in a more serious lockdown situation. Obviously, we want to ascertain what that will amount to.”