Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“I am always amused by the references to Connolly House. It is a constituency office, and, if I have been in it once in the past 10 years, that is the most of it. I am sorry to burst the Member's bubble, but Connolly House is a constituency office in Andersonstown. Any time that I engage with my Sinn Féin colleagues in the city, it is in the office in Sevastopol Street on the Falls Road. Nonetheless, we have very clear lines of accountability in our party on that matter, and we are happy to adhere to all the codes to which the five parties that make up the Executive agreed in advance of the Executive coming back and which have been put in place since the Executive came back. <BR /> <BR />This legislation is not sitting in place and invoked only if some part of those codes is not met in some regard.”
“Only the Civil Service code of ethics remains to be finalised following consultation with the Civil Service unions and the Civil Service Commissioners. We have also embarked on an unprecedented level of transparency, publishing details of Ministers' and special advisers' meetings with external organisations and individuals, gifts and hospitality received and overseas travel. We have published detailed information on special advisers' salaries and their relevant interests, and information on Ministers' interests will be published shortly.”
“It is unnecessary because the requirements that it places on civil servants, special advisers and Ministers already largely exist. They exist in the ministerial code of conduct, the guidance for Ministers, the code of conduct for special advisers, the letter of appointment for special advisers and the Civil Service code of ethics, all of which were subject to in-depth consideration as part of the party political talks by the five parties involved in the discussions in advance of the Executive returning to government. <BR /> <BR />The Executive have already recognised the need for reform in the area and acted swiftly on the return of the institutions to effect change. My Executive colleagues and I agreed revised key documents and, indeed, brought forward and published detailed guidance for Ministers for the first time.”
“I will oppose the final agreement of the Bill by the Assembly. I say that in the context of having made extensive efforts to amend the Bill. The amendments that were made at Further Consideration Stage and reflected in the version of the Bill that was agreed at Consideration Stage were necessary to mitigate the damage that would be done should this seriously flawed legislation reach the statute book. It did not signal my approval of the legislation nor the acceptance of any need for it. The fact that multiple amendments have been made to the Bill is a reflection of its fundamentally flawed nature. <BR /> <BR />No matter how many remedial amendments are made to it, the Bill remains unnecessary and disproportionate.”
“Not as yet. A number of very small sectors still struggle to get support or have not got sufficient support, and I have encouraged the Economy Minister that that fund might be a means of addressing that, so I wait to see whether a bid comes forward for that. However, I am keen to make sure that we get support to sectors and individuals who have not been able to access it to date, and that fund would be one way of addressing that.”
“I hope that it meets the needs of students in the ways that have been identified. I also hope that, perhaps when that funding is allocated, maybe some of the other political parties will credit both of us for the success of that outcome — or perhaps not.”
“The Member made that point last week, I think, when I was in the Chamber making a statement. I absolutely accept that there is a significant level of hardship and stress among students, who have been paying for courses and accommodation and not being able to access either in a satisfactory manner. <BR /> <BR />I noticed in some party political campaigns around these issues that they are identifying me as the problem. I would never be identified when the solution is found; I never get the credit for it, but there you go, that is politics for you. Of course, it is the Economy Minister who has responsibility for students. She has made a bid for a significant amount of money for support, and she advises me that she intends to make a further bid for a significant amount, so I am looking forward to that.”
“He reminded me that, when we were on the Finance Committee together many years back, we pushed that idea, and I am still wedded to the idea of a simpler, more transparent and more accessible Budget process. Of course, the spending review that gave us our funding envelope was to have taken place over last summer. It was pushed back into the autumn. We did not get the final amount until 25 November, and it was not confirmed until 10 December. All the good intentions of this institution are dependent on what processes run through over in Whitehall, and if they stall or delay, it can throw our best intentions awry. Nonetheless, we do need to continue that work to simplify, streamline and make more accessible the Budget process.”
“If an earlier consultation process, without any sense of the funding amount, had thrown up priorities that the Executive agreed with, in order to react, as he said, to meet those, the Executive would, once we learned the outcome of the Budget, have had to go into a reprioritisation exercise whereby some Departments would have lost money in order to meet some of the priorities from other Departments. In the time frame available to us, that was going to be very difficult, if not impossible. <BR /> <BR />I do agree with him about making the Budget process more transparent and accessible. We have been working on that and will continue to work on that.”
“Certainly in relation to the last question, a Department, with all good intent, wanted to do a scheme and then found out very abruptly at the end of November/start of December that the funding was not available for that unless it reprioritised within the Department and decided to take funding from somewhere else.”
“Scotland might have been consulting early, but they did not know the amount of funding that they would have, and neither did Wales. I had a conversation with both Finance Ministers last week, and Scotland only launched its Budget last Thursday, I think. The Administration may have been having a broad consultation on what priorities people would like to see. Of course, there are about £1·7 billion of pressures that our Departments would have liked to spend money on but cannot now meet. It is a question of judgement. People can go out and consult if they wish, but, if they do not know the funding envelope that they are operating from, arguably the consultation is rendered null and void.”
“If the position does not improve for Departments, they will have to consider whether certain schemes are a priority and, if so, decide what other schemes they might have to drop to meet that priority.”
“Yes, it would have been at that stage that the Department had the good intent to launch additional schemes, particularly recognising the economic impact that the pandemic has had. I have no doubt that it was well intentioned in wanting to launch the scheme. We only learnt on 25 November what our funding envelope was for the Budget, and that was only confirmed on 10 December. The Department then realised that it simply would have the allocation that it had last year, with no scope for additional programmes. That is the draft Budget proposition. It goes through a process of consultation and engagement with all Ministers and other areas that we are looking to in terms of funding possibilities, and then we reach the final Budget proposition stage.”
“Ultimately, it will be for Ministers in those Departments, who have the same level of funding that they had last year, to make calls on their priorities, and I am sure that the issues that the Member has outlined, which cross the Department for Communities and the Department for the Economy, will be considered by those Ministers.”
“As I said, there is something like £1·7 billion in unmet pressures. The Executive agreed that, given the Budget outcome and the time frame available in which to try to consult and get the necessary legislation done, there was no time for a significant reprioritisation exercise, so, essentially, the money that Departments had from last year was rolled over. It will be up to the Ministers in those Departments to make calls on their priorities. That will be challenging, and that is why, alongside that, I am pushing to carry over to next year as much flexibility as possible to try to meet pressures that are arising in all Departments.”
“I am always open to receiving bids. It is not my responsibility to make a political judgement on the bids. We can have an argument about what an economic powerhouse we are or how successful our agriculture has been, in being dependent on Europe for support. We hope that that support might be continued by the British Government, but there is certainly no guarantee of that. We will see where our agriculture is on the other side of that. Nonetheless, it is not up to me to make a judgement. I am happy to receive bids, and we judge them according to the value-for-money aspect and the proposition that has been put together. My Department makes a judgement, I make a recommendation or a proposition to the Executive, and they decide. I do not decide on the merit. Ultimately, the Executive decide on the merit of any bid and any funding allocations.”
“I made that comment because TEO was responsible for the decade of centenaries, and I, wrongly, assumed that that responsibility was with it. I have not received any bids, but I would have to check. As the Member will understand, we rolled over the Budget, so it was simply the same allocations as last year. There were some £1·7 billion of unmet pressures from all Departments. I need to check whether TEO identified that as a pressure that it wanted to meet. I am not aware at the moment of any bids that have been made by any Department in that regard, but I am happy to check and come back to the Member.”
“That is why I have encouraged all Departments that have responsibility for all the different sectors to try to ensure that they respond to the needs of those sectors and make bids accordingly. I will be more than happy to recommend those bids if they come in.”
“When we had the significant injection of the COVID allocation prior to Christmas, we allocated all of it apart from, I think, £26 million. The money that we are now attempting to allocate is money that has come back from Departments. It was not a question of sitting on money at all; we allocated all the money. We kept only a relatively small proportion of it for after Christmas. In some senses, we were concerned that we would leave ourselves short. <BR /> <BR />Health returned about £90 million; the Department for the Economy returned something similar. There were also significant returns from other Departments. Of course, we want to get those spent. We want to reach out to small businesses that are struggling and see support being provided to them.”
“Our priority is to try to get flexibility to carry over money to the next financial year. As I outlined in response to an earlier question, we have a very challenging Budget situation next year for all Departments, and the more carry-over that we have, the more that we can try to meet the pressures that Departments might face next year. <BR /> <BR />I encourage all Ministers and Departments to look closely at the sectors that they should be offering support to, to see whether they can continue that support, rerun schemes or reach out to sectors that have not received sufficient support or any support at all. I have developed contingency plans to make sure that we spend all the money that we have, but I would prefer to see as many sectors as possible getting support in the remaining weeks of this financial year.”
“I hope not. I cannot be absolutely certain about every piece of correspondence that goes out or does not go out from the Department, but that should be the function of LPS. Bear in mind that LPS was a rates collection agency. It repurposed itself and gained extra powers to become a payments agency. It has operated in very challenging circumstances, at times to the frustration of those on the receiving end of payments. Nonetheless, it has, over the course of the pandemic, paid out a huge amount of money to support businesses. If people have not been corresponded with properly, I invite the Member to contact me and the Department to ensure that that is rectified.”
“Yes, for as long as the restrictions apply. We have told LPS and we have advised the Executive. Indeed, we bid for an additional £100 million of the COVID funding that was available to continue that scheme. When we get to the end of March, where we are with that is a different story because the COVID funding that is available next year is about £500 million. Health will take up a significant proportion of that. That compares with the £3 billion COVID funding that we had this year. Until at least the end of March, we will continue to pay out to businesses that are prevented from opening.”
“The Minister received funding for a bid that she made earlier in the year. Obviously, the Department for Infrastructure is responsible for the operation of and the payout from that scheme. I know that there have been further bids to support those sectors, and I am very happy to recommend those to the Executive. There was some discussion about whether taxi operators fitted into a scheme that the Department for the Economy was running or into the taxi drivers scheme. I am not sure how that was resolved between the Ministers involved. However, as I said, in general terms, I have encouraged people to make an effort to reach out in the short time ahead to any sectors that feel that they were left out or not fully supported and to ensure that they have bids in so that we can try to get as much support to them as we can.”
“<BR /> <BR />It was agreed between us and Communities that the scheme for them is the sustainability fund, which can look at lost income from gate receipts, from sponsorship or whatever else, plus from hospitality taking into account what the facilities were earning from food and drink. That, therefore, can be measured more accurately per sports club. That is the scheme that was devised for them. Applications to it have opened. I am told that it is not fully subscribed yet, so I encourage clubs to ensure that they follow that through.”
“The scheme that they are to apply to is the sports sustainability fund, which takes account of lost income for all sporting organisations. It was organised in conjunction with the overarching sporting bodies. Those conversations have taken place, and it was agreed that that scheme is the place for those people to go. <BR /> <BR />As for trying to fit them into the LRSS, you will find that the rateable premises that provide the hospitality in a sports club are a small portion of it. The sports club would be rated as a huge premises, yet it is only a smaller proportion that is involved in that business side of things.”
“Where people have provided wrong addresses and corrected the information, those count as rejections as well. There is an appeals process. I do not have the exact figure of how many people have got through the appeals process, but it is ongoing. There are huge complexities in business and a significant amount of error in applications. I know that people have been frustrated waiting on all this. The team working on it has been doing it as quickly as it possibly can. However, at some stages, these things almost have to be sifted by hand to make sure that the details that have been presented are correct. However, I still encourage people, if they are not satisfied with the outcome, to appeal. Those appeals will be heard.”
“As I said, about half of them have been either duplicate applications or an ineligible business type. I accept that the process has taken much longer than we intended. Quite a lot of the data that we expected to get, certainly for close-contact services, did not emerge in a way that was usable. Since the restrictions began again in October, there have been five different levels of restrictions resulting in 27 different levels of payments. That is hugely complex for an organisation to manage. Nonetheless, we wanted it to respond much quicker than it has. <BR /> <BR />I know of one case in the Member's constituency where there were 14 different applications for one premises, so 13 were recorded as rejections to get to the one that was actually accepted.”
“I add that the Executive have established other support schemes, and many applicants who have been rejected by the LRSS are eligible for those schemes.”
“To date, 21,619 applications have been received across all phases of the localised restrictions support scheme (LRSS). Some 11,767 applications have been approved, resulting in payments worth £126·85 million. Some 7,225 applications have been rejected for the following reasons: about 31% were duplicate applications, 27% were an ineligible business type, 20% were not occupying the address on the application, 6% were self-declared as not open, and 16% were for various other reasons. Members should be aware that many of those who have had an application rejected may also have had another application approved. This is particularly the case with duplicate applications and applications that were made in respect of the wrong address, which made up half of the rejected cases.”
“One of the points that I specifically put to the SEUPB is that, for people whose communities had been scarred, not just in the physical sense but in the sense of the built infrastructure around them, there needed to be a look at how we can improve those communities and thereby improve the lives of the people who live in them.”
“I absolutely agree with the Member. From one of the discussions that we had with the community and voluntary sector and with people who had a long-running experience of engaging with the Peace programmes over the years, one of the points that they put to us, particularly with regard to areas around peace walls, is that, while there was a strong desire to see the peace walls removed, there were a lot of things that could be done in the interim for communities who live on either side with regard to improving the areas themselves. That kind of capital investment lifts an area and helps people to have a better quality of life. I have not got the exact figure for the capital part of the programme, but I can get that for the Member.”
“Nonetheless, I am very pleased that we have managed to bring it up from what was originally sitting at about €650 million to €1 billion. I have no doubt that, if we can get the programme designed correctly and if people engage with this consultation as it comes out this month, then we can get the best possible usage of that on the ground where it is needed.”
“Following discussions between, in particular, us and Dublin, and then with London, we have managed to get an increase, which is a very welcome contribution from Whitehall. That brings the total amount of funding up to about €1 billion, and that will be over six or seven years for the roll-out. The current Peace programme is continuing to roll out until the end of this year, and the new funding will come in then from the next financial year and beyond. It is a substantial amount of money over six or seven years. There will undoubtedly be, as there always is with Peace funding, huge demand on the ground. As you will know, PEACE PLUS is taking in the INTERREG proportion of that, as well as the Peace programme.”
“<BR /> <BR />We intend to, and have agreed that we will, continue, but it is just very unfortunate that none of us can go to London to meet collectively in the Treasury. We have to make joint virtual representations at the moment to the Treasury, but we will continue to do that. I think that it is a most unsatisfactory approach by the Treasury and the Government in London generally, and it is certainly not what we were promised. There was to have been a pilot programme for next year and, as yet, we do not have any detail on that at all. There is a real concern that, in the transition of that, we are going to lose substantial amounts of money.”
“We have had continued and sustained engagement. Last week, when I met my Scottish and Welsh counterparts, we discussed the issue of flexibility, which we were just discussing, and the replacement of EU funding. They have the same view that the Department and Executive have, which is that EU funding should be replaced in full, as was promised. It should be given to the devolved Administrations to design their own programmes and to allocate according to their own priorities. As yet, we have absolutely no assurances; the direction of travel that seems to have been confirmed by the Treasury is that it intends to allocate from Whitehall, and it intends to use that as part of the levelling-up agenda. I do not think that that corresponds with any of our priorities here; it is more aimed at the northern cities in England.”
“The SEUPB has assured us that that will be the case. <BR /> <BR />The programme will be consulted on this month, so I advise all community and voluntary groups and people who have an interest in PEACE funding and in ensuring that it gets to the areas that it was intended to target to engage in the consultation and make sure that their voices are heard.”
“We have had a number of conversations about the development of the PEACE PLUS programme with the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB). We have also had conversations with Ministers in the Administration in Dublin, who have joint responsibility for that, and, collectively, we expressed the views that had been brought to us when we spoke to people in grassroots community organisations about their experience of accessing PEACE money over the years. The burden of administration and the issue of accessibility came up repeatedly. So, we have asked SEUPB to address that in the current PEACE PLUS proposals. The purpose of PEACE money was to get money directly to communities on the ground that were affected by and still bore the scars of the conflict. We need to ensure that those finances are made as accessible to them as possible.”
“It is expected that the PEACE PLUS public consultation will commence in February 2021.”
“Six thematic areas are proposed in the new PEACE PLUS programme. Theme 3, which is "Empowering and Investing in Young People", focuses on children and young people. The theme includes the following interventions: the learning together programme, which will provide direct, sustained contact between school-aged children from all backgrounds through collaboration between schools and youth organisations; the PEACE PLUS youth programme, which will enhance the capacity of children and young people to form positive and effective relationships with others of a different background and make a positive contribution to building a cohesive society; and youth mental health and well-being, which will support cross-community and cross-border activities to lead to an improved understanding of youth mental health issues.”
“The current financial year's Budget provided for an uplift of £42 million for special educational needs. That is rolled into the Department of Education's baseline for the next financial year. The draft Budget proposes a further £10 million uplift to help to address special educational needs pressures. If that allocation is agreed in the final Budget, it will be for the Education Minister to determine how best to utilise the funding in the delivery of special educational needs services.”
“However, we are waiting for confirmation of a range of issues, including the flexibility that we have for carry-over into next year and other funds that were committed under New Decade, New Approach, the confidence and supply agreement and the Fresh Start Agreement, all of which could improve our Budget outcome. We hope for a better position in the final Budget paper. However, at the moment, we do not have the necessary information. Suffice to say, as I have said many times, getting such short notice and such a poor Budget outcome makes for a very unsatisfactory situation.”
“We got such late notice of our funding envelope and the outcome was so disappointing that doing anything substantially different would have required us to engage in a reprioritisation exercise. Some Departments would have gained from that; others would have lost. Given the time frame involved, the Executive agreed to go forward with the same allocations as Departments received in the last financial year, so that information has been put out there. <BR /> <BR />I continue to talk to the Minister for Communities and other Ministers about the Budget allocations, and we want to try to improve that position going into the final Budget outcome.”
“I have invited and encouraged all Executive colleagues to make bids for the unspent COVID money that has been returned by a number of Departments in January. I would certainly be hugely sympathetic to the issue that the Member described. I am aware of one company offering the Department of Education assistance, free of charge, not necessarily for devices but for connectivity and data usage on people's phones, which is being eaten up by trying to download lessons. I am not sure whether the Department took up that offer of support. However, I am happy to consider that and even to encourage the Education Minister to make such bids as the Member suggested.”
“The short answer is that we do not know, because we have not yet been informed. We expected to hear from Treasury on Friday to get some clarity finally on that carry-over. We have an expectation of what it might be. However, we cannot include it in a document such as the one that the Member referenced unless certainty is attached to it. Therefore, the sooner that we can get certainty on that — my officials continue to engage with Treasury daily to try to get the certainty that we require — the sooner that the figures can be included in the final Budget document.”
“I am sure that that work will continue, but there is no doubt that all Departments will be disappointed with their budget allocation, as we are in the Department of Finance.”
“As the Member will know, Departments, from 2017 right through to January 2020, had no Ministers in place to direct any change in public policy. Since we came into post in 2020, we have been dealing with the very immediate effects of the pandemic. I have to say that the Budget settlement this year was hugely disappointing. Something like £1·7 billion of pressures were identified by Departments, which cannot be met as part of the Budget settlement. It is a huge challenge. <BR /> <BR />The work that the Member talks about is not the sort of work that can be turned around between an announcement of our funding envelope in December and the need to allocate budgets in January and legislate for the Supplementary Estimates by the end of the financial year.”
“On 18 January 2021, I advised the Assembly of the Executive's draft Budget. It has also been published on my Department's website for consultation. The draft Budget recommends an uplift of approximately 1·8% for the Department of Education's resource DEL compared with its present baseline position. That equates to an additional £41·1 million and would bring its opening budget position to £2·3 billion. A capital allocation of £158·3 million has been recommended. That is broadly equivalent to the Department's capital allocation in the last financial year. Unfortunately, the spending review has led to a challenging Budget settlement for all Departments. Consequently, the Education budget could be further increased only by taking money from another Department.”
“When you hear the stories from people who have had to struggle with no availability of that type of facility and have to change children, not babies, on the floor of toilets, you can understand the stress and trauma that that would present to any parent who does not have that facility. I hope that the example of the facility that we are creating down at the play park will encourage others. We will be changing the guidance to the regulations to make sure that that becomes a requirement in the future for a whole range of public buildings.”
“The Member is correct. The work on the facility down at the bottom of the estate is being done voluntarily by the Department of Finance ahead of the requirement. We intend to amend the technical guidance to building regulations rather than changing the building regulations. That mirrors an approach in other Administrations. The intention is that, in any new building of a certain type or size, we will make it a requirement to put in Changing Places facilities. Of course, you cannot do that retrospectively, but we will be encouraging people, where they are doing any work to a building, to undertake and recognise that requirement. <BR /> <BR />I am prepared to consider the establishment of a fund to support or encourage people, particularly those doing retrospective work, to bring this type of facility into place.”
“Despite the challenging circumstances, work is progressing well, and we expect the Changing Places facility to be completed in April of this year. Planning approval for the facility was granted in September 2020, with construction work commencing in October.”