Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“Connectivity will continue to be a challenge, for airports, roads and the rail network, but particularly for broadband. We have seen, over the course of the last three months, that broadband connectivity is more vital than ever, for the connection of families, businesses, and the ability of people to work from home and have more flexible working arrangements. It will be hugely important, and the sooner that we get all those connectivity issues addressed, the better for us.”
“We got that, and I hope that the scheme will roll out as quickly as possible.”
“I am pleased that we have managed to deliver so much funding across a variety of Departments. Of course, connectivity is vital. The Member mentioned the airport. All of the airports have a huge role to play in our connectivity, not just in connecting people to places but in connecting economies. Following on from our last discussion about funding that was to be made available by the British Government, some of the confidence and supply money that we managed to secure and some of the NDNA funding is to be put into connectivity, particularly in rural areas, through the Project Stratum broadband connection scheme. While we were prepared to look at supporting the Department for the Economy on that, we did not give up on the struggle to get the money that had been committed by the British Government.”
“Those are issues that we as an Executive, collectively, have to continue to fight with the Government and the Treasury. <BR /> <BR />The money that I have allocated is to set up the administrative side of the scheme. It does not lend itself to the matter of which Department might be responsible for it. It is a matter for the Executive Office to make a call on that in the first instance. The allocation is simply about providing a resource to set up the mechanics of the facilities needed to deliver such a scheme. Decisions then have to be taken around how it works, who funds it and what Department leads it. Those are decisions for the future.”
“The Member is correct: it is the Treasury's responsibility to fund the scheme under its funding payment process. The Department that devises the scheme and legislates for it is responsible for its delivery and for the finances for its delivery. We have not, as yet, got an assessment from the NIO or the Treasury of what the cost of the scheme might be, while they try to offload responsibility for it. The Member will be aware that the scheme and the processes to which all of the parties agreed in the Stormont House Agreement a number of years back are not replicated in the victims' pension scheme that is being delivered to us by the British Government. It clearly departs from the agreement that the five parties and both Governments came to. In that regard, it is a different scheme, and we have no costs or estimations of the costs for it.”
“The Executive need to take a collective overview of those resources to ensure that they are used to support the priorities that they have set themselves for economic recovery.”
“We can look at any and all measures. The Strategic Investment Board already assists us and gives advice to Departments on big projects. Clearly, we want to get that capital money spent. There was an underutilisation of financial transactions capital last year, as you say. One of the issues was the loss of legislation on the housing sector. I understand that that legislation has its Final Stage this afternoon. I hope that that will bring about improvement in accessing that FTC. I agree with him: we need to do that. We need to access it better, spend it better and ensure that it is used to grow the economy. The measures are there for us. There are other resources, such as Peace Plus, the international fund and our investment fund.”
“It will also be a key area in making sure that we get the money spent, and that is why, as well as trying to do all that is necessary, we have ongoing discussions with Treasury to ensure that we have flexibility at the end of the year, while recognising that it will be a challenge. <BR /> <BR />The Executive are having a broader discussion on the economic recovery. With issues like this, it is not simply about what money you get and where you allocate it, it is about how the system of government works to assist with doing things better to get more value from our spend and ensure that it contributes to a growing economy.”
“A number of months back, I asked Departments to bring forward capital programmes to make sure that schemes that may have been ready to go were brought to that state of readiness, rather than sitting back and starting to go through assessments, business cases and things like that. We have been engaging regularly with the construction sector. My Department has the responsibility to engage with that sector to make sure that we understand its state of readiness to come back and the type of works in which it can engage. All of that is geared towards ensuring that we can spend as best we can the capital that is available. Capital spend and ensuring that people are working will be one of the key areas in invigorating the economy.”
“I do not disagree with the Member's assessment of some of the challenges that we face. There is no doubt that the backdrop to people asking me to welcome spending is the long-term underinvestment here. We welcome any additional assistance, but we are not blind to the situation that we find ourselves in. <BR /> <BR />Yes, of course, bringing forward capital spend in a timely manner will be the most challenging aspect of our public spending this year. We have lost the first quarter. Construction is only beginning to ratchet up and get back to a position in which it can be fully active again, and, undoubtedly, supply chains will continue to be affected by the COVID crisis across the world. That will be a significant challenge.”
“Yes, my Department continues to engage with all Departments to assess the bids that they have made and to ensure that the money is spent appropriately. I have no doubt that the Department of Agriculture will make further bids relating to market interventions in the time ahead. Like all sectors, it will continue to struggle, and we have to continually reassess what the requirements are. The Executive have to try to prioritise where they see that finances are needed most immediately and allocate funds accordingly. Through my officials, we will continue to engage with all Departments, including DAERA, on what, they feel, are the pressures and urgent situations in their sectors and how we might best meet those.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the bids for skills, I remind the Member that the Executive approves the bids; I make a recommendation to the Executive, and they decide. Other bids have been supported, and, if it wishes, the Department for the Economy has the flexibility to reprioritise within the Department and meet things that it considers to be of a more pressing need or priority.”
“The figures for the overcommitment were included in my statement. The Member's point about the underspend is correct: we do not want to see underspends. They mean that money that we would otherwise have spent on services here is returned to the Treasury, which is never a good situation. We have had three years without an Assembly to hold Departments to account or Ministers to take decisions that they are held accountable for. We were moving into a scenario in which we expected that to improve, but we had the pandemic and all the spending plans were turned on their heads over the first quarter of the year. There will, no doubt, be a challenge with underspend at the end of the year, and we continue to engage with the Treasury to try to get the necessary flexibilities to deal with however our budgets end up as the year moves on.”
“I expect Committees and Committee Chairs to hold their Ministers to account on the spending of that money.”
“They were interrupted for the last three months by the Executive's need to collectively face the emergency that we faced and respond appropriately to it. Thankfully, we are now moving out of that, although we are not, by any means, out of the woods with what might emerge from the COVID-19 experience, and are turning our minds to all the issues that have stacked up. <BR /> <BR />The issue of the financial accountability of each Department to their Committee will be a matter for all the Committees. We can lead by example — I hope that we do in the Department of Finance — but it will be a matter for Committees to hold their Departments to account. I will, as I have always undertaken to do, come here and explain how the Department of Finance is allocating money.”
“There is no point in billing your question inappropriately. <BR /> <BR />The Member will understand that, as we moved into the response to the pandemic and the emergency that we were in, the Executive agreed to suspend normal business and focus all our energy on the pandemic. It is only in the last number of weeks that the Executive and Departments have started to turn their attention back to things like NDNA commitments and other measures that were priorities for all Departments and the Executive collectively in the few weeks that we had before the pandemic hit. We are turning our minds back to those. The idea that the fiscal council has been sitting for three and a half months with nothing happening is inaccurate. Those issues will be taken forward.”
“I am not sure that it is the one that we have all been waiting for”
“The Department for the Economy will receive £25 million to provide grant funding for Ulster University's Belfast campus, which will replace £25 million of the planned financial transactions capital loan. <BR /> <BR />Departments need to respond as dynamically as possible to the fluctuating financial position. Therefore, I am extending the flexibility that Departments have had in this round to reallocate internal budgets until the October round. All the funding that is currently available has now been allocated. Those allocations help our public services, including the health service; they assist in economic recovery and they protect the most vulnerable in our society, including children who are entitled to free school meals and the homeless. <BR /> <BR />I commend the June monitoring outcome to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have allocated £13·5 million to the Department of Justice for increased costs in the Prison Service and the PSNI, the cost of PPE and lost income in the Courts Service. <BR /> <BR />The Executive Office has incurred the cost of work with the press throughout the ongoing COVID-19 response, and I am allocating £500,000 to TEO for that purpose. In addition, I am allocating £2·5 million to the Executive Office for administrative costs in relation to victims' payments. In line with the Treasury's statement of funding policy, which makes it clear that the Department that makes policy will bear the cost of that policy, the NIO is responsible for funding that scheme. <BR /> <BR />Turning to capital DEL, I am allocating £38·7 million to the Department of Health for the purchase of essential equipment and for invest-to-save projects.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department of Education will receive £39 million to fund free school meals over the summer months, for an increased child provision from 1 July and for summer activities to support children and learning. <BR /> <BR />The health service has been at the front line of the COVID crisis. I am providing a further £51·4 million to the Department of Health, which will not only provide for the continued response to COVID-19 but for service transformation, elective care and the mental health plan. <BR /> <BR />On top of the £30 million for transport-related pressures, I have allocated £5·5 million to the Department for Infrastructure for lost income to NI Water.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will now deal with the allocation of £139·9 million resource DEL and £63·7 million capital DEL. It will come as no surprise that the majority of the resource DEL allocations will go towards helping to combat the impact of the COVID-19 crisis. I have allocated £22·7 million to the Department for Communities, which will provide £5 million to help process the increase in social security recipients, £4·5 million for the community support fund, £4 million for the cultural sector, £3·7 million for the homeless, £3·5 million to purchase PPE for staff who work in the Supporting People programme and £2 million for sport. <BR /> <BR />The Department for the Economy will receive £4·7 million to support higher education, Invest NI marketing and grants to small and medium enterprises.”
“Last week, the Executive agreed to further support our three airports and, to that end, we will ask the Department for Transport and the Treasury to address the costs of air passenger duty and safety and security activities. We also want to continue to support City of Derry Airport until March 2021. <BR /> <BR />Allocations of ring-fenced financial transactions capital totalling £35 million have been made to the Department for the Economy in this round, £20 million of which will provide support to potential start-ups and continued investment in our tourist attractions. The other £15 million is for schemes that were agreed at the time of the Budget. Using financial transactions capital remains a challenge, but I encourage all Departments to seek ways of using that funding.”
“<BR /> <BR />When I announced the Executive's response to COVID-19 in May, I provided Members with an update on how the Executive are using the £95 million that was set aside to support the transport sector. Alongside support for ferry operators and airports, I allocated £30 million to the Department for Infrastructure for loss of income and particular pressures in Translink. From the remaining funding that was set aside, I am now allocating a further £30 million to the Department for Infrastructure to offset lost income, £20 million of which is for a second allocation to Translink, with the remaining £10 million to replace lost income across the transport sector.”
“<BR /> <BR />When I announced the package of business rate support measures in the Executive's COVID-19 response, I highlighted that the cost exceeded the funding available. In this monitoring round, I am addressing that issue by providing the additional £97·7 million required to address that shortfall, as well as the latest cost assessment of that support. <BR /> <BR />Before I turn to the allocations that I am making today, I want to update Members on the COVID-19 reprioritisation exercise that has been completed by all Departments. In response to the challenges of the pandemic, Departments have been able to reprioritise over £140 million of existing budgets to address COVID-19 pressures. I will keep that position under review and encourage Departments to continue to find ways of addressing their internal pressures.”
“Adjusting the capital DEL for the Irish Government's contribution to the A5 means that £25·8 million capital DEL is available for reallocation. Full details are included in the tables provided with this statement. <BR /> <BR />Members will recall that, in May, I announced a significant package of COVID-19 response measures, and, as a result, over £1 billion of resource DEL has been allocated to Departments. Those allocations included £4 million for substitute teachers. DE has reported that uptake of that initiative has been less than anticipated and can be managed from within its existing budget. DE has therefore returned the £4 million resource DEL for reallocation. The Department of Justice returned £0·75 million of the £1·6 million allocated for the temporary resting place.”
“Adjustments to forecast regional rate income and RRI interest requirements has resulted in £10·8 million resource DEL becoming available for allocation. <BR /> <BR />The Treasury has now confirmed that funding for confidence and supply will be available in 2020-21, and, as a result, £15 million capital DEL funding that I set aside in the Budget is now available for allocation. I will continue to seek a commitment to the outstanding £195 million in confidence and supply funding. <BR /> <BR />Changes to a number of central items have had a minor impact on the funding available, reducing resource DEL by £0·1 million and capital DEL by £5·1 million. <BR /> <BR />Reduced requirements come to £2·9 million resource DEL, largely due to COVID-19 delaying the recruitment of staff, and £33·5 million capital DEL.”
“The top-line figures are that £139·9 million resource DEL and £66·4 million capital DEL and £200·1 million financial transactions capital DEL are available to address the more routine pressures and those arising as a result of COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />I want to provide some details of the available funding, in addition to the budget exchange amounts already mentioned. Since I announced the Budget 2020-21 outcome in the Chamber, Barnett consequentials due to the Executive for non-COVID-19 measures have been increased by £3·4 million resource DEL, £6·4 million capital DEL and £0·2 million for FTC. Since the announcement of COVID-19 support measures, on 19 May, additional funding has been made available by the Treasury for COVID-19 measures, totalling £190·8 million and £3·1 million capital DEL.”
“Adding to the small departmental underspend of £0·2 million, that figure results in a total underspend of £92 million. The budget exchange scheme provides the potential to carry forward £20 million of the underspend to the 2020-21 financial year, meaning that £72 million will not be used. Work is ongoing with Departments and the Strategic Investment Board (SIB) to identify the barriers that currently prevent the Executive from fully utilising the financial transactions capital funding available. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the current year, the challenge of responding to COVID-19 has meant that the June monitoring round has operated differently from that in previous years. One fact that remains is that we face significant pressures with limited funding available to address them.”
“The underspend that the Executive can access in the following year is calculated at block level, meaning that changes in regional rates, income and reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) interest payments compared to the level forecast must also be taken into account. Taken together, the total carried forward in resource DEL is £28·4 million. In conventional capital DEL, while the total underspend is £101·6 million, the limit on the amount that I can now plan to carry forward is £21·2 million. I am in discussion with the Treasury about additional flexibility that can apply to the exceptional level of underspend related to the impact of COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />Moving on to ring-fenced financial transactions capital, Members will recall that we finished last year with £91·8 million unallocated.”
“The contract for that large-scale digital investment programme was to be signed in 2019-2020. However, the Department carried out additional due diligence, delaying the signing until 2020-21. <BR /> <BR />The Department for Communities reported a significant underspend of £24 million, which relates to the new-build housing programme. That underspend, along with many other elements of underspend reported by Departments, is due to the impact of COVID-19 on capital programmes, with interrupted supply chains, site closures and planning or legal delays. <BR /> <BR />The devolved Administrations can access a limited amount of previous years' underspend through the Treasury's budget exchange scheme.”
“Excluding the pressures introduced as part of the COVID-19 response, underspends of £25 million resource DEL and £103·1 million capital DEL have been reported by Departments. <BR /> <BR />In resource DEL, an overspend has been reported by the Department of Education. While significantly less than reported last year, my officials continue to raise concerns with their Education counterparts. The Department for Infrastructure reported an overspend due to a shortfall in income as a result of COVID-19 and increased expenditure on PPE. <BR /> <BR />In capital DEL, the underspend reported comprises £102·9 million conventional and £0·2 million financial transactions capital (FTC). The most significant capital underspend is reported by the Department of Health — £48·1 million of that relates to the Encompass digital investment project.”
“I join with the Chair of the Finance Committee in welcoming you back. It is good to see you back in the Chair. <BR /> <BR />The monitoring round is usually the method by which Departments can return underspends for their reallocation, identify pressures and manage their budgets. The first monitoring round of 2020-21 has taken on a new significance as the Executive respond to the evolving COVID-19 situation. <BR /> <BR />Before turning to the current year, I want to update the Assembly on the 2019-2020 provisional out-turn position. The provisional out-turn position provides an indication of departmental budget management during the last financial year, and determines the amount of funding that the Executive can carry forward. The end of the 2019-2020 financial year saw the emergence of COVID-19.”
“I assure the Member that we continue to make representations. Issues such as the shared prosperity fund and others that replace EU assistance, which we have benefited from enormously here over the years, are very vague and not at all encouraging in the lack of detail. It is not only us. In the joint meetings that I attend with the other devolved areas, the Scottish and Welsh similarly press for more detail and certainty on all that. I assure the Member that it is continuously on the agenda, and we will press not only for the cost of the exit to be met by the British Government but for the replacement and the operation and decision-making around whatever replaces EU funds to be the property of this institution.”
“We continue to engage with Treasury to get a sense of what those announcements will be. The Executive will be able to plan our economic recovery on the back of those.”
“I am invited frequently by Members from the Benches opposite to thank the Government for their generosity. I remind the Member that we pay taxes here. The business support was, of course, very welcome. Any of this money is welcome; I have no difficulty in welcoming it. <BR /> <BR />I talk about the priority for investment. We had to prioritise investing in our health service, which has been under-resourced for years because of austerity measures. Vulnerable people have been under-resourced for years because of austerity measures. We had to channel things into areas that the Government in London have reduced our ability to spend public money on over the years. <BR /> <BR />We are not aware of further financial packages. We are told that there may be announcements in July.”
“I have been as flexible as you so far, so we may continue in the same vein. <BR /> <BR />In general terms, the Treasury and the British Government have committed, as part of their manifesto, to cover all costs associated with leaving the EU. From a political perspective, I wish that it was not the case that we were leaving at all. Nonetheless, we want to ensure that the exit from the EU is the least damaging that it can be. I thoroughly expect there to be damage as a consequence of leaving, and that is why it needs to be done in a careful, calibrated fashion. There is a commitment to cover all such costs, and it is incumbent on me, as the Finance Minister, and the Executive as a whole to hold the Government to that commitment.”
“The British Treasury has confirmed that it will, in principle, cover the infrastructure costs of checking sanitary and phytosanitary measures following the end of the transition period. I will continue to engage with Treasury to ensure that all costs of implementing the protocol are covered by the Exchequer.”
“The Department of Finance is here to assist other Departments and their staff in whatever way we can.”
“That will involve a range of measures, including looking at individual circumstances and at childcare. It will also involve looking at where people work from. We had already begun looking at flexi-desks, people working from hubs or satellite arrangements around the country so that people are not spending time in their car or having to travel with other people to and from work if they can work remotely or work from hubs closer to their home. There is a range of measures that will assist people back to work. <BR /> <BR />I do not see us getting back to full offices any time soon. We will have to continue to be flexible and operate a variety of arrangements to get the best value out of our public services that we can. Those will be challenges for every Department.”
“There is a range of measures. One is, as Claire Sugden identified, that childcare is a problem. We have to recognise, now that the childcare sector is not functioning as it was, that it is more difficult for people to access childcare and that that creates a difficulty. There has to be almost a personal engagement with each civil servant by their manager to see the issues that they face. The initial priority was to allow people to work from home, and there was a huge drive towards that through providing people with laptops, smartphones and other devices and through ensuring that people had the technology to contact and engage with the Department to continue meetings and to continue work from home. Of course, the question now is how we get back and how we get more people back in.”
“<BR /> <BR />Business support is not simply one package; it will be ongoing support. It will be about finding ways of doing things better. An example is the discussions between Infrastructure and Communities about the use of street space and licensing. All those things are important in supporting the hospitality sector. It is not simply a matter of grants; it is a matter of engaging to ensure that things are made easier for business as well.”
“I appreciate your flexibility, Mr Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />Quite a lot of businesses and MLAs have come to us with the problems facing the business sector. I am particularly keen to hear — I put this out to all MLAs — from people who want us to make representations to the Treasury, as we are the Department that engages directly with it. I have a regular engagement with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and my departmental officials engage daily with the Treasury. We have been able to point out to the Treasury things that have not worked properly in relation to some of their early responses — the job retention scheme and some of the loans issues. We have been able to engage with them and say, "This isn't working here for a variety of reasons". We have secured some amendments and some more flexibility.”
“I see that an apology is the way to win a non-supplementary question”
“Yes. I appreciate the challenge for people coming back, and that is why we have included childcare in the additional rates relief and why we are looking at childcare as a specific sector for support. There are particular challenges in getting childcare in place, as, of course, if it is not in place, people cannot get back to work. It is a chicken-and-egg thing. It involves more than the Department of Finance, but we have responsibility for NICS. <BR /> <BR />Yes, I am sure that we can publish or make available the guidance to make sure that people are being properly looked after. The instruction to managers in the Civil Service is to be as flexible and as sympathetic as possible and to understand the challenges that people face. I hope that that is the case. If it is not, we are more than happy to hear from them.”
“Staff can discuss and agree with their managers, who are in the best position to support them, how domestic arrangements, including childcare, can be managed during these challenging times. Staff may consider applying for special leave, take annual leave or wish to discuss with their manager a temporary change to working patterns or contracted working hours. Managers are very much encouraged to consider all such requests sympathetically.”
“I appreciate the severe impact that the COVID-19 outbreak has had on childcare availability and the resulting challenges faced by parents who are working from home. NICS has worked hard to support staff to manage their workload against their parental caring responsibilities. Staff are supported with a blend of flexible working arrangements and the use of technology, including the provision of laptops and access to tools such as Webex videoconferencing. An additional 5,750 laptops, around 4,000 reconfigured desktops and 1,400 new mobile devices — tablets and smartphones — have been issued to allow staff to work from home. <BR /> <BR />Flexitime arrangements allow staff working from home to manage how they arrange their working hours to balance commitments.”
“The Executive are looking forward to economic recovery and at how to target economic recovery, but this pot of money was used in the middle of the pandemic to keep people afloat. So, while there are still people who have not been reached, there is a valid argument for looking back to see how we achieve some of that with the outstanding money.”
“The underspend was actually £65 million; £53 million was returned. All sectors that did not manage to avail themselves of previous business support grants should be considered, and sole traders is one that we are looking at. I know that, when the Treasury was doing a scheme, there were particular difficulties in making sure that it correctly identified those who qualified as sole traders. There is complexity to that, but that is not to say that these issues should not be looked at. <BR /> <BR />You are correct of course: as, I am sure, everyone here is aware, a range of sectors have come forward to say that they have not been able to avail themselves of this and have missed out. Now that the money has been surrendered, we have an opportunity.”
“For different reasons, we will probably end up facing into a capital underspend, possibly at the end of this year. We have not yet got a straight answer from Treasury on whether we will be able to transfer that sum to resource. We are encouraging Departments to bring forward capital schemes as best and as quickly as they can, because capital spend will be one way to pump-prime economic recovery. There is no doubt that, for different reasons, capital spend will continue to be challenged this year. However, at this early stage, we are encouraging Departments to do all that they can to ensure that we spend as much as we can.”
“I do not think that anyone apart from himself takes him seriously on those issues. If ever you want a distraction story, that is one to go for. <BR /> <BR />Yes, it is unacceptable that so much financial transactions capital is not availed of and goes straight back. We could carry over something like £20 million, but that goes back to Treasury. Legislation was to have been passed in Westminster last year to change the status of the Housing Executive to allow it to avail itself of some of that. That would have improved the situation, but it did not happen because legislative time ran out. The Department later today, I think, will bring through the Final Stage of a Bill that deals with that issue. <BR /> <BR />Once we have that fixed, we will fall into a situation where we have not been able to spend capital.”