Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“The Executive have accepted in principle the recommendations of the RHI inquiry report and, in line with the NDNA commitment, established a subcommittee to consider the recommendations of the RHI report in full and to oversee their implementation. That subcommittee met for the first time in July. <BR /> <BR />The subcommittee heard that significant work has already been done in response to the evidence given to the inquiry, including new codes of conduct for Ministers and special advisers. The Executive subcommittee is due to meet again in October and it will bring a full report on the actions taken and proposed for each recommendation to the Assembly before the Christmas recess.”
“Jonathan Buckley asked about the list. I have a list of the 84 ATMs and their location, so I will ask the Department to make it available to him. I welcome Pat Catney's initiative in relation to the all-party group on fair banking. I know that there is an interest among the parties in relation to that, and I hope that that has some success because fair banking is something that has ever been with us but particularly in relation to the ongoing support of businesses over the course of the pandemic — the loans issue and access to loans — the issue of fair banking has risen to the fore again. So, it is a timely initiative. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I ask Members to support this measure, and I commend the order to the Assembly.”
“While there will be a fixed area in relation to what would constitute an ATM — and the rates relief obviously applies to the end of the year — Land and Property Services has always tried to be as flexible as it can in relation to ensuring that. The purpose of the exemption is to try and provide support to rural businesses. That is the spirit in which it has been introduced.”
“However, as things stand, it is worth preserving the measure, and, in doing that, we can help to ensure that eligible ATMs are retained in rural areas, providing greater access and support to those communities. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Committee for its work on this. Broadly, people have been very supportive of the extension and regret the fact that the exemption lapsed for a couple of years. People have welcomed the opportunity to reinstate it. Maolíosa McHugh's point about the percentage of money taken out of ATMs in rural areas that is spent in those areas was well made, and it lends itself to our ongoing efforts to support the rural economy and ensure that rural isolation does not lead to further deterioration in people's livelihoods. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the robbery risk that he and Sinéad Bradley referred to.”
“I thank the Members who contributed to the discussion and debate on the order and wider issues. I will turn to some of those in the course of my remarks on the extension of the exemption for ATMs in designated rural areas. <BR /> <BR />I believe that the scheme is worth reinstating for those who live in isolated rural communities and still depend on ATMs being available. We can all appreciate the difficulties encountered in these communities through any measure that leads to a reduction in the availability of ATMs, and, especially at this time, the Executive wish to continue to do all that they can to support people in rural areas. <BR /> <BR />The long-term need for the scheme may change as people become more used to contactless payment during the pandemic.”
“<BR /> <BR />Turing to the statutory rule itself, article 1 of the order sets out the citation, commencement and interpretation provisions. Article 2, in turn, provides for the extension to 1 April 2021 of the date before which the scheme must end. Article 3 revokes the previous end date for the scheme. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to Members' comments and commend the rates order to the House.”
“In the context of the magnitude of Executive support provided elsewhere at present, I consider that to be an affordable sum, given the wider benefits that it can bring. Although the support is unlikely to incentivise many new ATMs, especially as we, as a society, transition towards contactless payments — a trend that is likely to be accelerated as a result of the pandemic — there remains a risk that a permanent removal of this measure could jeopardise the viability of some ATMs in rural areas. That would reduce the availability of cash in the rural communities that they serve. On that basis alone, the Executive consider that the exemption for ATMs in rural areas should be reinstated for the 2020-21 Budget period.”
“The legislation before the Assembly continues the operation of the scheme through to the end of March 2021. The scheme provides an exemption for standalone ATMs that are individually valued in the valuation list, for example those located outside petrol stations or on main streets. It does not apply to ATMs that are located in banks or buildings societies, which tend to be valued as part of that property. As things stand, there are 84 ATMs eligible for the exemption. Although a modest measure given that scale, I think that the potential for the scheme to assist in the retention of eligible ATMs is a goal worth securing now that the Assembly has returned. <BR /> <BR />The current financial cost of the scheme is less than £200,000 in rates revenue foregone.”
“The order serves to re-implement the rural ATM rates exemption scheme, which lapsed in 2017 in the absence of a functioning Assembly. Prior to that, the scheme was a long-standing feature of the rates system, with the policy objective of encouraging and sustaining provision of ATMs in rural areas. I believe that the policy objectives behind the scheme remain worthy, particularly in the economic climate that we now face. Previous research and analysis, along with consultation with key stakeholders, have confirmed the value of the scheme. <BR /> <BR />The order, which follows Executive agreement to extend the scheme within the 2020-21 Budget, will aid continued provision of ATMs in rural areas. The relief will be provided for the full rating year.”
“I think that the price of a pint comes in underneath the threshold for bribery. Generally, when I go home, I go on the motorway, so I do not pass too many pubs. <BR /> <BR />I am aware that, particularly in the hospitality industry, people continue to struggle. Those people are being very innovative and are investing their own money in their businesses, into which they have put their life and soul over many years. We need to assist them in whatever way we can. As I said in response to previous questions, part of that is the financial assistance that we give them, but it is also about things like planning, licensing laws and other measures to make sure that our hospitality sector, which is a key part of our economic product, is supported in every way possible.”
“We would have been able to use financial transactions capital, but the Department for the Economy made a bid to transfer it into capital money because there was capital money available. That is to do with ensuring that Ulster University has the financial resilience to carry forward that significant project and look forward to other projects that it will be involved in. Perhaps an explanation of some the rationale behind that approach would be better asked of the Department for the Economy. It was not that they could not avail of the financial transactions capital; there was a request to give them a grant of capital rather than a loan, which we did.”
“What the Health Department spends into the future will be a matter for you, the Health Committee Chair and others to interrogate.”
“I hope that that is the longer-term outcome, obviously, from a constituency interest point of view. Generally, bids are made in monitoring rounds for particular pressures that a Department faces, so I do not necessarily have the detail on the pressures that prompted that bid. Of course, I am happy to support the health service generally. It has been under enormous strain. It is under enormous strain on a continuous basis, but, obviously, it has been under significant additional strain as a consequence of responding to the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, the Ambulance Service is an important part of rural health provision, and we rely on it very much in the areas that we represent. The bid would have been for a particular pressure.”
“From memory, the additional £10 million is to cover the lost income for transport. There is £20 million allocated to the Department for Infrastructure in relation to transport issues, and some was allocated to Northern Ireland Water. I will get the Member the detail, but I think that £10 million of that was to do with lost income. Translink has been projecting the cost to them of lost income for the rest of the year, which is well over £100 million, and the Executive have been able to allocate on a periodic basis money to keep it afloat from month to month. Bigger questions arise in relation to Translink that need to be looked at.”
“It is a one-off payment, but I hope that the idea of the policy that has emerged is a precedent. I sincerely hope that, but, of course, that will be a matter for the Departments responsible to bring forward. This bid was for a scheme this summer, but the issue of holiday hunger has long been identified, and no steps have been taken to address it. If the pandemic forces us into a situation where it is being addressed, I sincerely hope, speaking from a political perspective, that that is a precedent and that we do get into looking after those children over the summer as well.”
“<BR /> <BR />In relation to the arts, undoubtedly, that sector has suffered. This £4 million is probably not as much as they would have wanted, but we had to try to disperse the limited resources available to us across a range of priority interests. I will be happy to talk to the Communities Minister to make sure that it is distributed as quickly as it can be. It is hugely important to keep the arts functioning. With the lockdown, they have lost the ability to generate income, and we have to recognise that too.”
“On the first issue, the Member has raised the issue of the local media on a number of occasions. Undoubtedly, the small regional papers and the regional radio stations rely very much on commercial advertising to keep them afloat. My local newspaper — 'The Newry Reporter' — went out of print for maybe two months before it came back. That, undoubtedly, was a huge burden for a small local paper to deal with. The advertising revenue from the Executive has been important. <BR /> <BR />I am actively looking the issue of rates for them. As he knows, there are different sectors. There are small, independent, family-owned businesses, there are there are larger conglomerates, and there are some international players in our local media. We at actively looking at giving them support.”
“We want to make it work, but we want to make sure that the company is run in the most efficient way possible and that it is not continuously seen as a cash drain, as some Members undoubtedly see it, and that we get a good-value public transport system that works for us. <BR /> <BR />I have had discussions with the Infrastructure Minister, and, as part of the paper to the Executive, I have asked her to bring forward a discussion document on that so that we can have a look at what Translink's requirements are. You are right that we have not met those, but we could not have met what they have identified as their requirements for this year under this allocation. It would have used up more than was available to us for that one company alone.”
“I assure the Member that I am meeting the Minister for Infrastructure. I know that he was doing his Chair duties and out of the Chamber at the time, but the question was asked earlier, perhaps from a less supportive position than his and more critical of the company and its ongoing financial requirements. I said that it was about £10 million a month, which is a significant level of support from the Executive. Nonetheless, as the Infrastructure Minister knows, there is a commitment to make sure that the company does not fail. A public transport system is a vital part of our society, of our economy, of connectivity and getting schools functioning again.”
“<BR /> <BR />You asked about overcommitment and I did not answer. There is none in the Budget this year. After all the allocations and the DEL resource money is allocated, £2·7 million capital and £180 million financial transaction capital is unallocated, but there is no overcommitment.”
“Whether two departments or one, somebody needs to bring forward a policy proposal to say, "Here is a sector, here is the impact, here is what is needed to fix it. Can the Executive allocate the support? Here is how it would be distributed in that sector". We need to see that and we have not seen it yet in a range of issues. That is why the pot that we had held aside for transport is shrinking because we have made further allocations to Translink and the Department for Infrastructure, as part of this statement and monitoring round. That pot is now down to £29·5 million. There was a discussion at the Executive, albeit briefly as these things are challenging when operating remotely, between the Departments for Infrastructure and Economy around getting their heads together on some of these issues. I look forward to propositions coming.”
“One of the things that this pandemic has thrown up, in stark relief, is the sheer complexity of all the sectors that we are dealing with, the overlaps and the way that they fall between Departments. For example, someone has responsibility for regulations and others have responsibility for some economic aspect; the cross-departmental nature of all that has been brought to the fore. <BR /> <BR />Whether it is haulage, private coaches, taxis, various other sectors or airports, that fell between three Departments. The Department of Finance took the lead on it with the support of the Department for the Economy, and Infrastructure. Some of these issues fall between departmental responsibilities and, to be quite honest, as Finance Minister, I am not overly worried about who takes responsibility.”
“The Executive have provided what support we can but everyone has to play their part in making sure that the guidance, as best as can be, is being followed. Where it is difficult to maintain two metres, people put in whatever mitigating measures that they can to make sure that there is no resurgence of the virus. It is in the hospitality and tourism industries' interest to ensure that we do not go back to a sectoral or geographical lockdown. That would have a very damaging impact on the economy generally, but particularly in those sectors. This is a partnership; it is not just a matter of handing down guidelines and hoping. It is in all of the sectors and the economy's interests that we all, collectively, do all that we can to continue to suppress the virus, as we have been doing. The behaviour, by and large, has been exemplary.”
“The Member is correct; that was raised at a meeting that she attended. It is something that the Executive will want to consider that, if we end up in lockdown in a certain sector, what we do to support the staff. Not just in the hospitality sector, it could be a factory or a school. Medical discussions and advice, in the last number of weeks, have looked at what future resurgences of COVID might look like and the experiences in some other countries around clusters, not a widespread resurgence of the pandemic. Those issues, and what things would look like if there was a specific geographical or sectoral lockdown, need to be considered. <BR /> <BR />When the First and deputy First Minister announced last week some of the sectors opening up, it was on the basis of partnership.”
“Unfortunately, I cannot because I do not have the detail. It is a question for the Department for Communities. The Department bid for more than £2 million, and £2 million was all that we were able to afford, with £4 million for the arts for resilience in the arts sector. I am sure that that will be welcome. I think that the £2 million is for resilience in the sports sector. I am getting the nod from my officials, so, yes, it is for resilience. It is for people to try to keep the doors open, not for specific schemes. We can get you some detail, or I am sure that the Department for Communities will get you some detail on that.”
“I recently had a discussion with one of the radio stations, and it told us that that effectively had kept the doors open. So, it is not simply a matter of spending on spin doctors and putting out statements. There has been an advertising campaign that has been a vital lifeline to much of our small and independent media.”
“I think that a substantial number of people from outside Sinn Féin and in other parties have issue with the fact that the British Government rewrote the Stormont House Agreement, changed the nature of victims' payments and decided to change the criteria on that. That was an agreement that was worked out between five parties and two Governments. If the British Government decide under their own funding policy statement to bring a different policy forward to legislate for something different to which the parties agreed, the British Government are responsible for that. <BR /> <BR />To address the issue of the half a million pounds allocation, one of the key issues of keeping businesses alive has been the advertising that has come from the Executive Office on COVID-19. That has been a lifeline to many small newspapers and to radio stations.”
“TEO bid for the £2·5 million for victims payments to do administrative work, and it would have to justify how it intends to spend the money from that bid. If for some reason it decided not spend it, it would be surrendered at the next monitoring round, but the Executive Office has bid for money to spend on setting up the administrative structure necessary to deal with that. <BR /> <BR />It is not simply Sinn Féin that has a disagreement about victims. The entire Executive disagree with the idea that they should pick up the cost for that, which is as yet not costed, from the British Government.”
“The primary issues I was on the receiving end of tourism industry lobbying about were the date for restarting and the how people could not make it work in relation to 2 metres versus 1 metre distancing and how they would operate in those circumstances. Those were the primary things that we are hearing from them. If there is additional cost, I am very happy to talk to the Department for the Economy if it identifies that as a particular need that is unmet.”
“I ventured out into the retail world at a shopping centre last Saturday, and you could see very clearly how people have begun to try to make sure that their staff are protected and the systems within shops are operating correctly, which is entirely the right thing to do. <BR /> <BR />Partly, the £10k and £25k support grants were intended to try and allow businesses to invest in restart when they had the rates break, although I know that there were other bills that had to be paid. I hope that it did go some way towards that. The furlough scheme obviously took care of staff salaries up to 80%, and many businesses topped that up to 100% from their own resources. They can be commended for doing that. <BR /> <BR />I am not certain whether a bid was made in relation to that. It is recognised that there is a cost attached to it.”
“I have to say that I am not aware whether a bid was received. I can certainly ask the officials to come back to you, just to be clear about that. I do not want to say that there was none received; there may well have been one. In relation to tourism and hospitality, in particular, I very much recognise the difficulty that it is facing. We have always said that it was not just a matter of rates relief, which we obviously targeted towards that as one of the principal sectors, to the end of the year. There was also going to be a cost attached to re-entering into business in terms of training and whatever physical infrastructure had to be put in place to allow tourism and hospitality — and also retail.”
“While he expresses dissatisfaction that it has not been moved on, he will know where the problems have been created in relation to it. The £2·5 million is to help get the apparatus in place so that, when agreement is reached, the system is ready to go, but the Member will understand that there are very significant problems in relation to the British Government's handling of all this — their attempt to rewrite the agreement that was made at Stormont House and their attempt to pass on an, as yet, uncosted bill to the Executive for our resourcing of that particular issue.”
“Well, the way monitoring round papers are done is that an initial paper is produced, and then there is an ongoing exchange between the Departments in relation to it. For instance, I had a meeting subsequent to that with your own party colleague in relation to her allocation. Some Departments write back to us; some Departments speak to us. They are either satisfied or not satisfied, or they feel that a bid that they made was less important to them than another one which was not secured, or not recommended to be secured. That is an ongoing process. It comes back, eventually, to the Executive, and the Executive have an opportunity to have their say in relation to that. <BR /> <BR />The Member will know, through his particular role, that the issue of the victims' pensions is a very thorny issue.”
“I hope that the money now given, which is between the Department of Health and the Department of Education, for childcare is administered in a much more efficient way that sees it getting out onto the ground where it is needed. The other schemes, where there has been collaboration between Communities, Health and Education at varying times, are hugely important. I think that, as you correctly point out, the issue of holiday hunger is not just a consequence of the COVID pandemic. It is an ongoing issue, and I would like to see more collaboration in that regard. When you do that, it makes a much better case to the Executive, through the Department of Finance, for the funds and resources necessary for these very worthy schemes.”
“From my witnessing of it, there has been, I would suggest, much greater cross-departmental cooperation in the response to the pandemic. It is another one of the lessons that needs to be carried forward from the experience of COVID-19. I know that there has been quite a lot of collaboration between the Department for Communities, the Department of Education and the Department of Health in relation to some of those. The earlier scheme in relation to childcare support that came out of the Department of Health and the Department of Education was not administered satisfactorily, and there was a significant amount of underspend. It was an unnecessarily complicated scheme.”
“So, we are in a position now where that early critical issue in the COVID pandemic outbreak is now in a much better place, and that has been through the good work of the Health Department, the Finance Department and TEO officials in securing that. That was such a big, big challenge. One of the lessons that we have to learn is how we have more security of supply, and security of supply means that it is made on this island, or on these islands, and, therefore, it is much more accessible to us.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is a sector here that is willing to step up. We will not have the experience of trying to compete with other larger international players on the other side of the world, trying to navigate our way through very complex systems to get very necessary and vital medical supply. Thankfully, we have now secured a supply from China. From the Health Department's own assessment, it will be enough to carry us through the possibility — and we have to plan for the possibility and, indeed, the probability — of a resurgence of COVID-19. If that coincides with winter pressures, that will put significant pressure on healthcare staff.”
“One of the lessons that we have learned from the pandemic is around critical health supplies being procured from the far side of the world because they happen to be cheaper, and we need to re-evaluate how we do our own procurement. We have a very strong, efficient and innovative manufacturing base here, and it clearly showed that when sections of that manufacturing base stepped up, reprofiled their manufacturing and were very quickly able to turn out critical supplies for the Department. <BR /> <BR />I wrote to the Health Minister earlier this week to say that when the Department is looking at future supply, it should not simply look at price — and I know that it does not look at that alone — but security of supply and assisting the local economy have to come up the procurement evaluation list.”
“Clearly, we will want to assist it in doing that because while we are trying to manage the spending of the budget, we cannot allow ourselves to run into overspend situations where those can be avoided.”
“It is really not for me to prescribe what the Department of Education does with its allocation. It has a budget allocation, which was an increase this year, and, then, it brings forward bids, and we expect it to bring forward reprioritisation and surrender some money that it considers is not needed in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />In relation to the overspend last year, it is concerning and it is reduced. I do not have the detail of exactly where that overspend occurred, but we will continue to work with the Department to try and address that issue. I know that the Education Minister is committed to doing that. It will be a matter for the Committee to provide ongoing scrutiny with the Department in that regard.”
“If it is the case that they continue to hold out, the Executive will have to find money to meet all those priorities from their own limited resources. That means that other priorities will, undoubtedly, slip as a consequence.”
“There will continue to be pressures on the Budget. As I said, while the COVID-19 allocations have been very welcome and, quite clearly, were needed to ensure that the health system could cope with the additional pressures that it would face from the pandemic, we were, nonetheless, dealing with huge pressures in health, particularly with regard to transformation, before COVID-19 arrived. The most frustrating aspect of the British Government's reneging on their commitment under NDNA is that quite a bit of that funding was going to be allocated to health transformation. I have undertaken the job on behalf of the Executive to continue to press the British Government to live up to and honour the commitments that they made under NDNA, which were to assist us in those matters.”
“First, I want to say that the monitoring round paper is agreed by the Executive as a whole. I make propositions, and the Executive can agree, disagree or amend as they see fit. Therefore, the decision on the allocation or reallocation of various sums of money is taken by the Executive as a whole. Of course, there is flexibility in the Department for the Economy to consider that skills area to be a higher priority than other areas and to reprioritise that money itself in order to meet the skills issue. Of course, I indicated to the Economy Minister that I am happy to continue the dialogue and discussion with her and others. We are coming back to the idea of economic recovery, and skills will, undoubtedly, play an important part in all that. The Executive will have further allocations to make in the time ahead.”
“Regardless of how the five parties reached an agreement, or the Dublin Government's involvement in that, they have taken us off in their own direction and are now trying to play off the fact that we disagree with it against those who are most deserving and need very quick access, as I fully understand, to the support that may come from the victims' pension. The quickest way in which to resolve it is for the British Government to come back to the type of process that we agreed. Let us do the thing fairly and get it resourced properly by those who are responsible for resourcing it, and let us get it out to victims.”
“It was handed over to the British Government to legislate for it, and they changed the terms of reference for the victims' pension. They also decided that, rather than making a contribution or being responsible for it, they would hand the costs of it over to the Executive, uncosted, under the terms that they have now set for it. The Executive have no idea what the costs of that will be. <BR /> <BR />Of course, I want to offer victims some comfort. I recognise that there has been an attempt to play off what is clearly a point of political difference in the departure that the British Government have taken us on.”
“No, I do not. I may have qualified under the terms of the scheme, but I do not personally consider myself a victim. The Member knows that we did reach an agreement. I am not sure whether he was part of the Stormont House negotiations. The mists of time have started to cloud my brain at this stage. The five parties reached an agreement. It was a very complex, complicated and challenging agreement. We tried to reach an agreement, if he remembers back — I am sure that other Members do — because the toxicity of the legacy issues was impacting on the work of the institution. The parties sat down determinedly to try to agree a range of legacy mechanisms on which we could all come to agreement; not just those which everybody wanted, but those which we could all stand over. Both Governments stood over that.”
“We know that it is an important part of trying to assist economic recovery. <BR /> <BR />In relation to the support, we have not as yet allocated the £53 million that was surrendered by the Department for the Economy, but we have had a discussion on it and we want to try to find ways to support those businesses that did not qualify for the business support grants. It will be more challenging than the first tranche of money, because the cases are more complex and there are more uncertainties around them, but we have to find arrangements to do that. We engage with those sectors on a regular basis. I am sure that the Department for the Economy is engaging with them as well.”
“I outlined that, last year, a significant amount of FTC was returned, and one of the issues was that the necessary legislation was not passed for the housing sector. Hopefully, that is nearing completion. However, we face the challenge of having lost the first quarter of construction activity, which would normally utilise capital budgets. It has been effectively brought to a halt, for a quarter of the year at least, and perhaps it will only gradually reopen over the next quarter. That will be a challenge. <BR /> <BR />Nonetheless, we are talking to all the Departments about how to access FTC. Additional support and advice is available from the Strategic Investment Board. We want to utilise this, and it is available to us. We want Departments to be able to spend it.”
“Effectively, the cost of keeping the company afloat is about £10 million per month to the Executive. While the Executive have expressed a very firm view that we want to keep a public transportation system working — it is vital to all those areas of recovery and society — we need to ensure that it functions efficiently. Therefore, I have asked the Infrastructure Minister to bring us a paper about that.”
“The public transport network is vital to us. If we are to talk about returning to economic activity, and the return of pupils to school, public transportation is a key part of it. We need a properly functioning public transportation system. It needs to be resourced by the Executive, because such systems rarely pay for themselves. They will always need subsidy by the Executive. They need to connect rural areas, which are very unprofitable routes. All that said, we need to make sure that we do it in a way that stands up to scrutiny. Clearly, concerns have been expressed about the ongoing costs of Translink to the Executive. <BR /> <BR />I have asked the Infrastructure Minister to bring a paper about Translink to the Executive, so that we can have a discussion, look behind the scenes and see how we can improve it.”