Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“Making such a bid is a matter for the Department for Infrastructure. I have encouraged the Infrastructure Minister and all other Ministers to look again at what capital bids may be made between now and the end of the financial year. I hope to hear from them soon. If a bid is made to the Department, I am happy to recommend that to the Executive for support.”
“I write to Treasury and engage with it individually and with other Finance Ministers. The protocol costs are unique to us here, so we continue to engage. Officials are in very regular contact to make sure that we get a clear understanding of the costs that have been incurred and the agreement that Treasury has to meet those costs to make sure that they do not land on our Budget. We will continue to do that. We then have to gather in from each of the Departments that have a responsibility the actual costs that they are making and to make sure that those are itemised, verified and represented to Treasury in order to get the return from it. That is an ongoing exercise. I hope that, for managing our own budgets, we will know sooner rather than later, and we will continue to engage with them to make sure that that is the case.”
“We recognise that the experience of the pandemic has been a challenge for local government as well as central government here. Local government provides vital services that continue to need to be supported. Over the course of the pandemic, we have been able to make substantial allocations to local government, and I am glad that the Department for Communities has come in for more support, which, I am sure, will be welcomed across our 11 councils. <BR /> <BR />I regularly meet councils on the local government partnership panel, which a number of Ministers sit on. We hear first-hand from council representatives, and I meet individual councils as often as I can. I am very aware of the pressures that they face, and I am sure that they welcome the allocations that have been made as part of the monitoring round.”
“<BR /> <BR />The discussions on the infrastructure commission are ongoing with the First Minister and deputy First Minister and the Minister for Infrastructure.”
“It is not my intention to hand any money back to Treasury. That is why I have asked for additional bids. There is one thing about capital spend being planned in normal circumstances, and, in this case, where capital has not been spent at the end of the year, generally speaking, it is returned. That is a normal cycle in our public finances. In my time as Minister in the Department for Regional Development, as it was then, Roads Service stepped forward and used up a lot of unspent resource and capital at the latter end of the financial year. It is a cycle that has happened. <BR /> <BR />We are above our capital limits, so we need to see further bids coming in. I have asked Executive colleagues to see where they can spend that between now and the end of the financial year.”
“<BR /> <BR />While I have responsibility for making propositions around the allocations and trying to manage the money, I do not manage the money internally in each of the Departments. That is where the surrenders have come back from. The issue that the Member raises is best raised with the Ministers who have made such significant and late returns.”
“If the £100 million came from the Department of Finance, it would be, but of course it comes from a range of Departments, including that of your colleague, surrendering money. It is late in the financial year for such a significant surrender, and I anticipate that there will be further surrendering of money between now and the end of the financial year. I have asked all Executive colleagues to give us the earliest possible warning in relation to that. We can carry over more than £100 million resource and, I think, £27·5 million capital. It would be beneficial if we could carry over that amount, but we do not want to be in a position where other funding is surrendered back to Treasury. There will be a need for further allocations between now and the end of the financial year. I have asked Departments to bid for that.”
“I have written to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and I raised it with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in our meeting, as did the Ministers from Scotland and Wales. We expect announcements around the cost of living in the spring statement, which will be at the latter end of March. I hope that they move to address some of those issues.”
“Having spoken to the Minister for Communities, I know that she is exercised about the people who need support. We all recognise that there is a cost of living crisis. The scheme will help a significant number of families, but there are others who will continue to struggle, and the Minister is seeking ways in which the scheme that we have put in place can be expanded to allow other deserving people to be included. Obviously, it will be for the Department for Communities to do that, but I am more than willing to assist and recommend further allocations, if that can be done, in the time ahead, because there is a recognition that energy prices continue to rise and that puts a huge stress on families. <BR /> <BR />In relation to the issues that we have raised with Treasury.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Yes, over the past two years, we have tried to find ways to support special educational needs. The case for it is strong at any time, but the experience of the pandemic and the interruptions to school will have had a particularly profound effect on children with special educational needs, so I was happy that we were able to find that funding. The Education Minister had been flagging it up for some time that she wanted further support for it, so I was pleased that we were able to provide it. She will be able to give detail on how and where that will be spent. I will continue, as long as I have an opportunity to do this job, to try to provide as much support for special educational needs as I can.”
“I constantly remind my Executive colleagues to make sure that they manage funding well and to give us an early alert if funding will not be required. While it is concerning, I am hopeful that there will be further bids for that capital, because, as I said, we have already exceeded the carry-over amount. We will continue to press Treasury for more flexibility in that regard. <BR /> <BR />In relation to payback of the COVID Barnett consequentials that we received, we have had conversations with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and I am confident that we will not have to pay back any of that money. That is the clear sense that we have got from Treasury, and I expect that to be confirmed in the near future.”
“The bids at October monitoring were twice what we had to allocate. Earlier surrenders could have been allocated then, and now we have much more than the bids that have come in. It is not a good way of doing business.”
“I thank the Chair of the Committee for his remarks. Capital underspend is concerning because, particularly at this late stage of the year, it is more difficult to allocate capital and get it spent within the financial year than resource. I do not think that there is an endemic problem across the Executive, but Departments need to be aware earlier of what they may or may not spend.”
“<BR /> <BR />I commend the January monitoring statement to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />As things stand, the amount of unallocated capital DEL already exceeds our carry-forward limit of £27·5 million. I am extremely disappointed that we received such significant levels of departmental reduced requirements at this late stage from Executive colleagues that, if notified earlier, could have been utilised in other areas. I have already written to Executive colleagues seeking further proposals to utilise the remaining resources in the remaining months of this financial year. I have also pressed the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to allow more Budget flexibility. It is hugely concerning that Treasury may not permit funding to be carried into next year, even if additional funding is confirmed at such a late stage that it prevents it being used most effectively.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a result of those allocations, we end the January monitoring round with £70·5 million resource DEL, £35·9 million capital DEL and £1·6 million of financial transactions capital unallocated. <BR /> <BR />We are currently within our Budget exchange scheme limit of £105·6 million carry forward of resource DEL by £35·1 million, and we are level with the £1·6 million carry-forward limit for financial transactions capital. Carrying over money will allow us to meet more of the pressures facing us next year. However, it is important that we do not breach our limit and surrender money to Treasury. I have therefore asked ministerial colleagues to minimise year-end underspends to ensure that we remain under our carry-over limit. I will keep the position under close review.”
“The Department for the Economy returned £16·7 million, which was the single largest amount. <BR /> <BR />Departments submitted capital bids totalling £4·6 million, all of which have been met. That includes £3·7 million for the Department for Infrastructure for costs associated with the A6. There is also £500,000 for the Department of Education for the supply of digital devices under the 'A Fair Start' report. With all the capital bids having been met, £35·9 million capital DEL is still available for allocation. <BR /> <BR />Financial transactions capital (FTC) of £72·7 million was available for allocation. With no bids submitted by Departments, £71·1 million of that will be put towards repayment of future liabilities. This leaves £1·6 million available to carry over into next year.”
“A further £31·9 million has been provided across Departments to cover pressures arising from accounting charges for depreciation or impairment of assets. Following those allocations, there remains £70·5 million of unallocated resource DEL. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to capital DEL,. Some £100·5 million was available for allocation as a result of £44·5 million of Barnett consequentials and £57 million of reduced requirements from Departments, along with some central adjustments.”
“Of that, £22·5 million is to deal with COVID pressures in schools, including support for PPE and staff substitute cover. I have previously stated my desire to prioritise helping children with special educational needs. I am pleased that £18·4 million has been allocated for that. The Department of Justice has been allocated £12·3 million, with £8·7 million going to the PSNI for a range of pressures and the remaining £3·5 million helping fund the provision of legal aid. In addition to the funding being provided for the energy payment support scheme, £18·2 million is allocated to the Department for Communities to support local councils. The Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs has been allocated £4 million to compensate people those affected by the avian influenza outbreak.”
“Full details of bids and allocations are set out in the tables that accompany the statement. I will, however, highlight a few specific areas. <BR /> <BR />The Infrastructure Minister is receiving £68·1 million. In addition to £19·8 million to help mitigate the impact of COVID on Translink, £24 million is being provided to subsidise bus routes. A figure of £15·5 million is being provided to help with energy cost increases for Northern Ireland Water and Roads. A further £4 million is being made available to support the bus and coach industry. There have been allocations of £2·7 million for penalty charge notice (PCN) debt write-off and £2 million for the Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA). The Department of Education has been given £43·3 million.”
“Since then, Treasury has advised of £163·8 million of Barnett consequentials arising from spending by the British Government on COVID and support for households over winter. That is an extremely large amount of money to receive so late in the year. Departments have also identified £140·5 million in reduced requirements. The Department for the Economy returned the highest amount, £50·3 million, followed by the Department of Education, which returned £41·1 million. That is also a significant level of funding to be made available late in the year. I have taken all that into account, together with adjustments to a number of additional central items, and it means that a total of £245·9 million of resource DEL was available to allocate. Against that amount, the resource DEL bids submitted by Departments amounted to £146·7 million.”
“<BR /> <BR />As was set out in my written statement on 13 January, the Executive agreed to allocate £55 million to the Department for Communities for an energy payment support scheme and £3·8 million to the Department for Infrastructure for energy cost impacts on Roads' street lighting and on Northern Ireland Water (NIW). Given their urgency, those matters were progressed in advance of January monitoring. Members will also be aware that the Executive agreed the allocation of £40 million to the Department of Finance for the omicron hospitality payment. <BR /> <BR />I turn first to resource departmental expenditure limit (DEL). We concluded the October monitoring round with all available funding having been allocated.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Thank you for the opportunity to make a statement on the outcome of the Executive's 2021-22 January monitoring exercise. While I advised Members of it on Thursday by way of written statement, today's oral statement will allow them to engage more fully on these important issues. I am aware that Members received two versions of the written statement. One version contained a minimal change to one figure. I can confirm that the original version that Members received is the correct one.”
“You can, of course, pick out the ones that had particular problems. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we get capital right. Capital allocations will be a challenge, particularly in year 3 of the Budget. Nonetheless, Departments have to do things better and deliver better. <BR /> <BR />Those are important projects, and I look forward to them being developed. There is a good track record across a range of projects. We need to make sure that best practice, in its entirety, is put into projects that have struggled over time.”
“Undoubtedly, some projects run into difficulties as attempts are made to deliver them. The A5 should have been delivered many years ago. It was held up by various objections and tribunals to hear those objections. That was regrettable. As outlined by my colleague earlier, people continue to die along that stretch of road because it is very dangerous. As someone who travels along the Westlink most mornings, I understand full well the importance of the York Street interchange project. <BR /> <BR />However, look at all the capital projects that the Department for Infrastructure delivered over the past number of years, even though we had a challenging report and there are lessons to be learned. Look at the broad range of capital projects that the Executive have delivered on time and on budget.”
“Ultimately, that is a decision that the Executive and the Assembly will have to make. However, I am very committed to the priority that I set in the Budget to prioritise Health and to see that followed through.”
“It is out for public consultation, and of course there is further discussion to be had with Ministers, but the core proposition of the Budget remains. If the Executive are to prioritise Health, as we have said collectively and repeatedly since we came into office prior to the pandemic, there is only one way in which to do that with a finite Budget. That is to make the funding available to Health by taking it from other Departments. That is the central proposition. <BR /> <BR />I am not sure how that could change without us deprioritising Health, taking the money back from it and from tackling waiting lists, cancer services, mental health strategies and transformation costs. That is the only change that could be made. The moneys would then go back into other Departments for other public services.”
“The Budget went out for consultation with a vote in the Executive. The majority of Executive members voted to support the beginning of the consultation. The DUP voted against its going out to consultation. We have heard, as you would expect to, from Ministers about the Departments that they currently represent. In my opening discussion with Executive colleagues, I said, "We are setting a Budget for an incoming Executive. At that stage, it may be that no one sitting around this table is in the position in which they are in now". <BR /> <BR />We needed to take off our departmental silo hats and figure out a way of matching the collective priorities that the Executive set themselves. That is what I attempted to do in the Budget.”
“If we are to follow through on their experiences, and I am glad that the Executive Office committed to following through, we need to ensure that the lion's share of the money goes directly to those people.”
“For victims' payments — we have an ongoing issue in discussions with the Treasury about those — it seemed to me that the way in which that system was set up ensured that the admin costs would be kept to a lower level and that the maximum cost allocation from that scheme would be to the people who were to be awarded compensation. <BR /> <BR />The scheme was delivered by TEO in conjunction with the Department of Justice, and I want to make sure that lessons are learned from it, because it is key that admin be kept to a minimum. It is about recognising the pain, the hurt and the injustice that was done to those families and individuals over many years.”
“Yes. The Department of Health will be asked to achieve 2% efficiencies over the three-year period. The difference is that it will be able to recycle those efficiency savings back into the Department. We want and expect to see a Department such as Health, with a Budget to match a three-year plan, achieve significant efficiencies, but, as I said, Health will be allowed to recycle them back into the Department.”
“I look forward to the Department for Infrastructure's continued engage with the black taxi service.”
“That is primarily a matter for the Department for Infrastructure. As part of the discussion on the Budget, it put in a bid for concessionary fares, which we agreed to ring-fence. Undoubtedly, the black taxi service, given that it relies on and works with the community of west Belfast, and, indeed, across Belfast, will have suffered as a consequence of much-reduced movement under the restrictions. I know that black taxis are a very important community asset in west Belfast in particular, so I look to the Department for Infrastructure to engage with them to ensure that they are supported in the time ahead. The Executive provided a range of sectors with support through the experience of the pandemic, and I know from visiting many of them that, but for that support, a lot of them would not be in business now.”
“I thank the Member for the question. She knows, as I do, that this has been an ambition for the people of Newry for many, many years. It is one of the most significant towns across the North — probably across the island — that does not have a city centre park facility for families, younger people, older people and all generations to go to and enjoy, particularly at the waterfront location where the site for the park will be. It was, indeed, very welcome not only that the funding was awarded for it but that the Department for Communities is and will be involved in the project with the council, which will give support to the council. I look forward to moving from that approval stage to the rapid implementation of the park so that we see this resource and asset in the city centre of Newry for, as you say, generations to come.”
“We will look to continue to support the very clear pressures in the education system over the course of the three years, but we cannot make a proposition to prioritise one area without every other area having to make a contribution to that. That creates additional stresses and pressures, and I have heard about all those from various Ministers over the last number of weeks. However, those are the choices that you have to make when you have a finite Budget and you want to give priority to a specific area. The additional funding is not just for the health of the population, which is important, but there is a clear recognition that, if we do not make the changes that we need in the health system, the costs will continue to grow year-on-year, which will have a longer-term impact on the budgets of all other public services.”
“The latter point is, I understand, part of the Department for Communities' bid, and it is up to that Department to satisfy that. I have had that raised with me in recent times, and I understand that the Communities Minister is very clear about fulfilling the commitment to subregional stadia. <BR /> <BR />As I said, we recognised at the outset of this process that the proposition to increase funding for Health was going to be very challenging for all Departments, particularly, I expect, for Education. If we had the money that we need to prioritise all the things that we need to do, I am sure that Education would have come a close second after Health. In financial allocations, Education has always come in second place to Health.”
“Consultation will continue with other Ministers over that period as well, so the sense that this was a final vote on the Budget is misleading, perhaps deliberately so. It was always misleading, because everybody who has been on the Executive knows that you agree to put the Budget out for consultation and that you only have a final vote on it at the end before we bring it to the Assembly.”
“As a former member of the Executive, the Member should know that the Budget process is such that the draft Budget is put out for public consultation and that no Minister has to put their hand up to say yea or nay until the final Budget is produced before it goes into the Assembly. Asking people to do a final yea or nay on the draft Budget is not a process that we have ever followed. The Executive — the majority of Ministers, with the exception of those from your party — were content for the Budget to go out to public consultation. Everyone recognises that the purpose of having a consultation is to create space for changes to be made between now and the final Budget stage, if that is required.”
“We have allocated funding specifically for it, and we will look to the Department of Education to work through the detail of that to make sure that all children who need that support are provided with it for the time that they need it.”
“The contribution is on the basis of a bid from the Department of Education. That allocation was on the assumption that payments should be the same as the average cost to provide a free school meal in that setting, which is £2·70 per child. The draft Budget includes a specific allocation of £22·1 million a year for holiday hunger. The Education Minister, I think, has to carry out an economic appraisal to determine the appropriate value of grants to provide to families rather than relying on the long-term cost of providing meals in the school setting. <BR /> <BR />We recognise that it is a challenging issue. It is one of a number of pressing social issues that the pandemic brought to the fore.”
“We cannot give additionally to Health and find it from somewhere else; it has to come from other Departments. <BR /> <BR />I have offered and am absolutely committed to engaging with Ministers over this 12-week period to try to find ways to meet the challenges that they have, and we will give every assistance that we can. Some of the issues around ring-fencing came from those engagements over the last number of weeks. I am quite committed to doing that, but it will be up to each Department to prioritise commitments, should they be NDNA or other commitments, within its allocation.”
“It will be a matter for the Department of Justice to work out with the Policing Board what additional staff will be achieved by that. I do not have that detail to hand. I have had many discussions with the Justice Minister about meeting that particular NDNA commitment. The proposition at the core of this, which is to give the additional allocation to Health to tackle what everyone around here has long said is our number-one, comes with additional pressure on every Department, including my Department of Finance. When there are priorities and commitments that need to be met, it is our responsibility to look to our own Departments to see how we can prioritise those against other spending in our own Departments, because this is, as the Member understands, a finite Budget.”
“We actually did ring-fence the green growth money in an earlier version of the draft Budget. It was as a result of a request from the Departments involved to have more flexibility over the three years to manage their budgets that we took the ring-fencing off it. I was quite happy to ring-fence that and to ensure that green growth is and continues to be a priority within the Executive, but we also have to give Departments the flexibility to manage their budgets over the three-year period, and some asked for the ring-fencing to be removed. That does not dilute in any way the commitment to green growth across a range of Departments.”
“I have emphasised that Ministers should prioritise NDNA commitments within their own allocations, and I expect that the Justice Minister will do so.”
“I have stressed to all Ministers that we should be striving to deliver on every NDNA commitment. We have had the two-year interruption of the pandemic, but the NDNA commitments still stand, and I still want to see Departments delivering them. I have had a number of conversations with the Justice Minister about that particular commitment in relation to policing. We will try to give whatever support we can. I have no doubt that I will have more conversations with the Justice Minister between now and the final approval of the Budget. There is, however, a significant degree of discretion in each departmental allocation, and the papers for all of those departmental propositions will be produced alongside a draft Budget to go out for consultation.”
“Yes, it is budgeted in. The Communities Minister has announced a very ambitious plan, and we want to ensure that that is the case. That is why, as part of this, I have recommended that the Executive should consider prioritising. In year 3, when our capital budget is most challenged for everyone, there is always a return of capital, because there are always projects that do not go ahead. There is a very strong anticipation of more capital coming into the system in year 3, and there should be a priority around housing in order to make sure that the Department for Communities, whoever the Minister may be at that stage, has the funding to continue on. That plan for 100,000 houses is over 16 years. This is the first three years, and we want to make sure that it gets off on target and on schedule in the early years of that particular strategy.”
“There is nothing unusual in an Executive agreeing a draft Budget and to have more material looked at. I will be having dialogue with other Ministers over the next 12 weeks, and there will, perhaps, be some additional changes to come before the final stage. That is the purpose of consultation.”
“So there is no final agreement, and there never was intended be, nor is there ever, when it comes to producing a draft Budget. The final agreement comes when it comes back to the Executive to decide what Budget they intend to put before the Assembly for legislation. <BR /> <BR />It is in that period of time that the Health Department has agreed to bring forward the proposition for how that money will be spent and how it is intended to do what we intend it to do. It is also the staging post by which the incoming Executive can measure that over the next three years. They already have costed and funded plans in relation to elective care, cancer strategies and mental health strategies, so those are all there. The only remaining piece is around transformation and how that money will be spent.”
“The Budget process is, and always has been, that the Executive agree a draft Budget to go out for consultation, but that is not the final agreement. In our discussions on health, when the proposition was first put forward to give this level of additional funding and the impact that it would have on other Departments, people rightly wanted to see how that would do what we wanted it to do in the time ahead, and that, in three years' time, an Executive would not be having the same discussions. So there was an undertaking to provide that over the 12-week consultation period. <BR /> <BR />It is quite often that matters are not finalised as part of the draft Budget. That is what the period of consultation is for. The Executive can take the Budget back and change things as a consequence of the consultation.”
“I am very confident that, with that funding in place, despite the hurdles that are there, if the Infrastructure Minister makes a bid for the funding of that project, the funding will be there for it, although, obviously, the Department for Infrastructure will have to overcome any hurdles that remain.”