Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
The complete record
Every one of 4,975 lines we hold for Conor Murphy, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 40 of 100.
“As the Member will know from his time on the Finance Committee, that reform, which was primarily driven by the renewable heat incentive (RHI) report but was certainly necessary in any circumstances, is pressing ahead. There is a focus on recruitment and the methods used to fill vacancies in the Civil Service. There is more use of external recruitment or the transfer of existing staff. We are moving from the use of internal promotion boards to external recruitment, and that will be the default method to fill vacancies.”
“The NDNA commitments envisage that the number of ALBs will be rationalised and that there will be efficiency savings, a strengthening of democratic control and improved accountability. The Executive have agreed that the review should proceed. The Department of Finance has provided guidance to Departments, and it will be for individual Ministers to take forward a review of their ALBs, produce an action plan and report on progress to the Executive. I am determined to drive that work forward. I expect that all Departments will be in a position to bring their timetables for reviewing their ALBs to the Executive early in the new year. The Department will then produce an annual report. It will also bring forward a draft public bodies Bill to facilitate the subsequent change process and to help to drive progress.”
“"Clutching at straws" comes to mind, given the complete chaos that Brexit has been in Britain and, potentially, here. The fact that we have the protocol arrangements has in some way insulated us against that, and that makes it all the more incumbent on us to get a sensible arrangement between the British Government and the European Union. <BR /> <BR />Some £315·6 million in agricultural support has been agreed for 2021-22, but the Treasury will deduct from that the receipts we get from the current programme. We previously had the ability to carry those over into future funding for agriculture. We estimate that £34 million will be lost over the next three years.”
“That would require strong input from the Department for the Economy. The Member may know that I and Executive colleagues, including his colleague, previously asked that the Department for the Economy put forward a prospectus on the benefits of having one foot in the British markets and one foot in the European markets. As yet, we have not received anything. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to do whatever mapping and information gathering we can in the time ahead, but I cannot vouch for the Department for the Economy in that regard. It is incumbent on us to give a clear picture of the funding that has been lost and the opportunities that still arise.”
“It has had strong input from the community and voluntary sectors and others, and it has assured us that it is listening to that feedback, so I expect to see a much more streamlined and accessible approach for funding applications.”
“I am pleased that the programme got the necessary approval of the North/South Ministerial Council last week, albeit not in the meeting that it was intended to go to; nonetheless, it is important. We have had many discussions with the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB) and the Department in the South and with the community and voluntary sector and others who apply for Peace funding about their experience over the years and the difficulty in accessing funding. <BR /> <BR />There is a strong push on the new programme to make sure that it is more accessible and less bureaucratic. Economists from our Department have advised SEUPB on that.”
“Those groups are left to compete with other groups from England, Scotland and Wales, and the Executive have little or no influence over the distribution of that money to very valuable projects that are deserving of support.”
“Some Departments have been asked for a high-level view on whether some of the applications match their priorities, but we do not have any sense of what value that would have and whether it would ensure that they get the funding or, indeed, the reverse. If we say that it does not match our priorities, are we denying a project funding that does not come back into our coffers to be distributed against our funding priorities? <BR /> <BR />It is an unsatisfactory issue. We have continually raised it with Treasury. I was there last week with the Scottish and Welsh Finance Ministers, and we pressed the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on the dissatisfaction of the devolved areas in their entirety with how that funding operates.”
“We have had numerous engagements, particularly with people in social enterprise, who provide a valuable service not only by creating businesses but by ensuring that people who perhaps do not have access to employment or who need other supports can get support through them to find work and develop skills. They perform a hugely valuable service. <BR /> <BR />Of course, its replacement, the Community Renewal Fund (CRF), and other funds, such as the Shared Prosperity Fund, are, as I said, operated directly from Whitehall. While there may be an opportunity for such groups to bid into them, we are unable to prioritise or match the funding to the Executive's priorities. There is really an element of chance involved in whether groups will get funding through them.”
“That deduction is estimated at £34 million over the next three years, which I consider money lost. <BR /> <BR />On a more positive note, Brexit has not impacted on the PEACE PLUS programme, which is due to have a fund of some €1·1 billion over the next seven years. That is approximately double the total allocation to the 2014-2020 Peace IV and INTERREG programmes.”
“The impact of Brexit on funding has not been positive. We will no longer have access to programmes such as the European social fund (ESF) and the European regional development fund (ERDF) and to competitive programmes such as the Connecting Europe Facility (CEF). In its 2017 manifesto, the Conservative Party promised full replacement of EU structural funds via the Shared Prosperity Fund (SPF). We have, however, been excluded from the policy development and design of that fund, which is likely to be delivered centrally by Whitehall, bypassing the Executive. The result is an annual loss of £70 million to the Executive's spending power. Agricultural support of £315·6 million has been agreed for 2021-22. Treasury will, however, deduct from that the receipts that we will get from current programmes.”
“There is an ongoing discussion with the unions to ensure that workers are aware of their rights and that we get the best possible outcomes from the new way of working.”
“I agree with the Member's closing remarks on the work of the Civil Service. We are planning a return, as we sensibly should. At some stage, we will get a message from Health that it is safe to return to work. We need to be ready for that. Work will change not only in the Civil Service but right across all large-scale employers. We will plan for a more hybrid or blended model where people will sometimes work at their desks and at other times from a remote location. We must plan for that return in each business area. The nature of a civil servant's job will determine whether they will be required in an office or whether there is built-in flexibility. We will see a very different system.”
“I have written to my Executive colleagues about the matter. At the Executive meeting on Thursday, I spoke about a planning session that we want to bring forward next week at which we will focus entirely on the Budget process. <BR /> <BR />In some ways, the fact that this Budget is for the next mandate can have a liberating effect on people. They can take off their departmental hat and plan a budget for a Department for which they may not have ministerial responsibility beyond an election. We can have a more holistic Executive conversation about the Budget and agree on the priorities. My view is that Health remains our priority, and that will have to be substantially underpinned with resources. We will agree on those priorities and how they will be matched ahead of the announcement on the review's outcome at the end of October.”
“My Department spent the summer engaging with other Departments on planning and prioritisation for multi-annual Budgets.”
“That is why I have asked Departments and the Executive to look at how we will support the prioritisation of health, the health service and health spending generally in circumstances where the Budget outcome is not as good as we had hoped. That might mean asking other Departments to offer support for health provision from the finances that they will have received. Some Ministers have indicated a willingness to do that, and that may well be one of the options that the Executive have to look at over the next couple of weeks.”
“That is the case, and, as I said, the Executive have always prioritised health. When we first came back in 2020, we agreed that, to try to take the politics out of health, we would have a whole-Executive approach to supporting the requirements of the health service. In the time since, those requirements have come into even sharper relief because of the pandemic. After the Bengoa report and other reports, we now want multi-annual Budgets that will allow us to properly allocate the resources to create transformation and tackle issues like waiting lists and other problems in the health service. It is time, as we set Budgets over the next three years, to prioritise and to match those priorities with the necessary resources. <BR /> <BR />We hope for a better outcome at the end of the spending review. We may not get that.”
“Yes, I agree, but Civil Service issues were only one part of that. There was a range of things, and we have improved things like the codes for Ministers and spads. Some of that work has already been done and brought forward through the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />There is a range of measures, some of which flow from the RHI report, some from the Audit Office report on recruitment. We have undertaken reviews of that policy and initiated some new measures. We will continue to do that because it was obvious that we needed transformation in the Civil Service anyway, but the RHI inquiry brought acute attention to some specific skills and competencies that are necessary for particular functions in the Civil Service. We need a more agile Civil Service that can recruit the necessary people to do specific tasks at specific times.”
“The RHI subcommittee met on a number of occasions following the publication of the report and agreed recommendations arising from it. I have sought to get the Executive to table and approve a report in response to the RHI inquiry. I have not been able to secure that despite submitting a paper on a number of occasions, but I hope to secure it in the near future. It is long beyond time that the Executive made a formal response to the RHI inquiry.”
“Yes, we have to be as sensitive as we can to people's individual circumstances. One of the key focuses is the time to which people are entitled to deal with issues of domestic abuse and, if necessary, to readjust their lives, including, sometimes, accommodation and other issues. Policies need to be kept continuously under review to make sure that we have the most appropriate, sensitive and supportive policies for Civil Service staff in the time ahead. That is certainly my intention for the outcome of any review, but I am happy to correspond with the Member. If she thinks that there are issues in the policy that have not been addressed sufficiently, I will be happy to hear from her.”
“I think that I have written to the Member recently about this. If not, I wrote to someone recently about it, but I think that it was her. A number of workplace policies are being reviewed by NICS HR, and that is one of them. I am happy to write to her with the full detail of the review, where it is currently and when we hope to conclude it.”
“One of the benefits will be an annual report, which will mean that the Assembly and its Committees can monitor each Department's activities in that regard.”
“As I said, I want to see the legislation done in this mandate, and, if it is possible to do that, we will. I have been holding meetings in recent days and weeks with departmental officials about progressing the matter as quickly as we can. Legislation will give Departments a basis on which to carry out their own, more in-depth review. We have done a desktop exercise to draw to the attention of Departments the number of arm's-length bodies. We have said what we think should happen to them, but that is up to Departments themselves. If we give them the necessary framework to do that, I suspect that it will be in the new mandate before Departments start to conduct reviews. They may do so on a rolling basis, taking some of the more obvious ones and considering them first.”
“I think that we will produce a report annually so that Committees can hold their Department to account and ask them to justify the existence of any body: for example, should it be brought back into the Department, done away with altogether, left as it is or reviewed to have its own functions in some way looked at again? There is a range of approaches to be taken to arm's-length bodies, but we want to get that work done as quickly as possible and to give Departments the necessary legislative framework to undertake that work.”
“<BR /> <BR />To make sense of all of that and to provide a programme for Departments to say, "You really need to look proactively at the bodies that are your responsibility", we will create legislation, which may not be done in time for the end of the mandate, but we hope that it will. That depends on what time we have left; maybe the Member can advise us on that. We will create legislation that will give Departments the tools that they need to do their own review and to start a programme of rationalisation of arm's-length bodies.”
“We began a programme of work in the Department and produced a paper for the Executive in which we did a desktop analysis of all the arm's-length bodies. I agree entirely that it was not just a review exercise but a review with a view to rationalisation. That means that action will be being taken. <BR /> <BR />Many of the arm's-length bodies are a product of direct rule Administrations. They were created to try to give a veneer of local democratic input. They are no longer fit for purpose. There is little standardisation among them. In their relationships with Departments, they have a range of functions and arrangements. They have different management arrangements. Some are remunerated, while some are not.”
“Where LPS has discovered that money was paid out in error or claimed fraudulently, it will pursue it. A significant amount has been returned. Where people were overpaid in certain circumstances but were due a different type of grant had they not got money from the localised restrictions support scheme (LRSS), we have arranged with other Departments to take it out of the grant that they should have had rather than take the money off that business. They will recover the difference that was overpaid, although, in some cases, the difference is to the benefit of the business itself. There has therefore been a proactive programme to retrieve moneys paid out in error or claimed fraudulently.”
“Nonetheless, as the Member will know — I certainly know it from visiting a lot of businesses and towns over the summer — the interventions were very welcome. They very much kept businesses alive when the consequences would have been bleak otherwise.”
“I will need to come back to the Member with all of those figures; I do not have them readily available to me. I know that the margin of error or fraud was relatively small, given, as he will understand, that the schemes were delivered quickly, which is not the norm, particularly for schemes that give out money. There was a relatively low level of error or fraud. There was certainly a significant level of follow-up with Land and Property Services to make sure that, where error had occurred, that was corrected, both in terms of people not receiving what they should have and people receiving what they should not have. <BR /> <BR />The rules and regulations of that scheme changed so many times; I think that, at one stage, 16 iterations of it had come through. It was a challenging scheme to manage.”
“<BR /> <BR />The policy note provides guidance on reserving contracts for the voluntary and community sector and highlights the provisions in the existing procurement legislation to create markets solely for third sector bodies. Currently, there are only two local examples of contracts being reserved in that manner. That needs to change.”
“A new procurement policy note on scoring social value was published in July following endorsement by the Executive. In support of that policy, training on bidding for government contracts will be rolled out to voluntary and community groups. In addition, I plan to bring a new policy on the procurement of social and community-type services to the Executive. That policy will ensure that, when commissioning social and community services, Departments must engage with communities and service providers to establish whether grant funding is a more appropriate mechanism. If procurement is the appropriate route, Departments will be required to remove unfair barriers for community and voluntary groups.”
“The Member will know that we do not have a regulatory function for banks; unfortunately, that resides in London. However, I have met the banks and bank leaders on a number of occasions. I have pressed them not to be in the business of closing branches in small rural towns, which would have a detrimental effect, regardless of the fact that banking practices have changed for people. Undoubtedly, the loss of banks on small high streets has a negative impact. I have asked them to hold back on those decisions until, at the very least, we emerge from the pandemic and have some assessment of the economic damage and what economic recovery can take place. Unfortunately, some banks have pressed ahead with those decisions. We continue to urge them to hold back on negative decisions in relation to the number of branches across Ireland.”
“Any interference in the North/South arrangements would have a detrimental impact on, obviously, border communities and rural communities but also communities across the North, including working-class communities, community and voluntary sector groups and the many capital programmes that have applied in the past to Peace programmes and will, undoubtedly, apply to PEACE PLUS, which is a significant programme that incorporates not only Peace but previous INTERREG programmes. A lot of groups are waiting for that as the funding from previous Peace programmes starts to run out. Any delay in the implementation will undoubtedly have a negative effect.”
“If it is not spent year on year, it is lost. Any delay in approving the programme and allowing it to open for calls in early 2022 would mean that money would be lost annually if it was not up and running.”
“I do not think that we should be distracted too much by the behaviour of other parties. We all have a responsibility to carry on with the work that we were elected to do. If the North/South Ministerial Council was not able to meet in October, however, it could not approve the SEUPB's proposition for a PEACE PLUS programme, which, as I said, comes with funding that is just short of £1 billion — over €1 billion. The SEUPB allocates on a yearly basis to organisations that apply for that funding. That funding of almost £1 billion is allocated over seven years.”
“The reality is that it was probably none. This is a new PEACE PLUS programme that requires approval to get running. The Peace IV programme, which ran over that time, had all its approvals in place and was able to continue as per those approvals. Therefore, I am afraid that the Member's question is misplaced. <BR /> <BR />PEACE PLUS is a new programme. In order to get up and running over a seven-year period, it requires initial approval through the British Government, the Irish Government, ourselves and the North/South Ministerial Council, and then to go to the EU Commission for final sign-off. I am sure that the Member will be relieved to know that that was not the case over that period.”
“With your permission, Ceann Comhairle, I will answer questions 5 and 13 together, as they both refer to PEACE PLUS. <BR /> <BR />The budget for PEACE PLUS has been confirmed at almost £1 billion. The Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB) is finalising the programme document, which requires approval from the Executive, the Irish Government, the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) and the EU Commission. It is planned that Executive and North/South Ministerial Council approval will be sought in October, before submission to the EU Commission. That would allow the SEUPB to open the programme for calls in early 2022.”
“That situation does not exist now, but I hope that restrictions can continue to be eased. That depends very much on the transmission of the virus in the community and on people following advice and behaving sensibly to ensure that our health service is not overwhelmed. We are progressing in that direction. We face a difficult time over the winter, and the health service is challenged. However, if society as a whole can continue to cooperate with the advice that we have been given, we will be out of this more quickly, and some of those businesses will be able to open up in a more commercially viable way.”
“I have written to the Chancellor on a number of occasions, including recently, to argue the case that the furlough scheme should continue, even if in a more targeted fashion. As we, thankfully, emerge from the pandemic, we have been able to open up a lot of businesses and areas, but the economic impact will continue for a significant period. <BR /> <BR />The Executive have not taken the decision to close businesses, but some of the restrictions mean that some businesses will consider whether or not it is commercially viable to open. My Department and — when the Member was in it — the Department for the Economy were able to pay out on the basis that regulations from the Health Department said that businesses had to close. That gave us the vires to pay support to people in business.”
“We can all try to encourage local people, as we are doing with the voucher scheme, to shop local and support local businesses by spending in our local high streets and our rural businesses in order to make sure that whatever spending power we have goes into supporting our local businesses.”
“As I said, the ability of the Department to manage a two-year full rates holiday was due to the COVID money that we received. There is a real sense from businesses, as he will know, that the rates bill is one of their key burdens. As I said, the feedback from the businesses that I have been speaking to is that the rates holiday has been a lifeline for them. They recognise that the only guarantee was to the end of this financial year; beyond that, we do not and have not had any indication that we will get COVID support to the level that we previously got. <BR /> <BR />We will continue to talk to the Treasury about that. That is why I have asked Ulster University to look at more specific targeting, if it were possible and if the Executive had the resources and agreed to apply them in order to target sectors that were really struggling.”
“Given that we have faced nine or 10 years of austerity Budgets, we need to rely on those things in order to supplement the income the Executive get.”
“One of the other asks on the non-domestic side was for more frequent revaluation exercises so that there would not be a significant jump in the valuation over a longer period and so that the redistribution of that burden having a more severe impact on some businesses than others would be avoided. We have gone for a three-year revaluation exercise for the next one, which is the shortest period between revaluation exercises that we have ever had. <BR /> <BR />It is about listening to businesses and trying to work through a fair system of rates that takes account of the issues that businesses raise. Of course, however, that income for the Executive is very important for our public services generally.”
“The Member is correct in that, I think, the rate generates about 10% of the funding and finances that are available to the Executive, which, as he will know, are used to support public services across a range of Departments. It is a very significant income for the Executive. Of course, we want the burden of that to be fairly distributed, and we had been hearing from businesses that they felt that the business rate was excessive. It has been reduced by 18%. Many people did not get the full value of that because we also introduced a rates holiday to cope with the pandemic. We have kept the business rate down by 18%, and we have been speaking to councils about the need to ensure that businesses can recover from the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />In the longer term, I want to continue to review and engage with business organisations and businesses.”
“The total value is over £100 million. I am happy to give the Member a breakdown, town by town. He will be pleased to know that Derry got almost £10 million of support and that Strabane, in his council area, got nearly £1·5 million. I will be happy to provide him with a full breakdown of the support for each town.”
“I have asked Ulster University, which did the initial assessment to determine those sectors that most required intervention, to do a further analysis of that to see whether there is anything in particular that we can do when this financial year and the rates holidays that we introduced come to an end.”
“The Member is right. As I am sure other Members have done, I have been out and about engaging with businesses, and, over the summer months, I took the opportunity to visit different towns to engage with people who had benefited from rates support and rates reduction. The feedback that I got was that it undoubtedly kept a lot of businesses open. Obviously, we wish to keep them open in the time ahead. A lot of the money that paid for that was COVID money that we got from Westminster last year. We have no guarantee of that level of funding, if any at all, in the time ahead.”
“A new valuation list will come into effect on 1 April 2023 and will be based on the property market in October this year. That will ensure that businesses pay rates that are based on values that take account of the market changes because of the pandemic. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I continue to urge councils to show restraint in setting their non-domestic rates poundages in order that we can limit business rate increases going forward.”
“The amount of rates payable by a business is a product of the assessed net annual value (NAV) of the property and the regional and district rate poundages. A 2019 review of business rates highlighted the general feeling in the business community that the rates burden on businesses was too high. In response, I reduced the regional business rate by 18% in 2020 and held the reduced rate for the current year as well. Businesses located in town centres have also benefited from £108 million per year of relief through rates holidays, which has seen many town centre businesses pay no rates at all for two years. That is in addition to the £5·8 million of small business rate relief that was awarded to town centre businesses. <BR /> <BR />I have asked Land and Property Services (LPS) to carry out a revaluation of non-domestic properties.”
“I invited them to engage with the Civil Service team that is working on the matter to see where the policy proposals match. <BR /> <BR />A range of propositions is under way as a consequence of a need for change and as a consequence of the RHI inquiry and Audit Office reports.”