Conor Murphy
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“More detailed consultations with individual childcare providers and parents are taking place this month and into February. The group agreed that the research would conclude in March 2025. The work is on schedule; there has been no delay. Childcare is an excellent example of various Departments coming together to deliver for our people.”
“The Bill looks at the issue of flexible working, but at every meeting that we have had with employers, we have made a point of talking to them about the need for them to be flexible, particularly in relation to women who are returning to the workforce, and to offer people arrangements that entice them back to the workforce and give them t…”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. <BR /> <BR />Although the Department of Education leads on childcare, it is a priority for the Executive as a whole. When setting the Budget for this financial year, the Executive earmarked an additional £25 million for childcare.”
“As a matter of fact, I publicly launched the scheme and the courses in the Met last summer. My officials are also working with our six further education colleges to develop childcare microcourses for future delivery. <BR /> <BR />I also offered to assist Minister Givan's Department as required.”
“The group identified the need to better understand the business models for childcare, what type of support is needed to ensure the sector's financial viability and how support should be targeted. Given my Department's business expertise, we volunteered to take that work forward.”
“No tensions or obstacles have been placed in the way of any of that work, and I hope that that continues to be the case, because the issues are much more important than party political exchanges across the Chamber. We will continue to work in that manner.”
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“It will be up to the Executive to decide how to spend any funding that comes back. I can make recommendations, and I would like to see funding there, because it was COVID-related. I mentioned that it was for only four months here because it might be less that what people will, perhaps, expect, since they have heard the amounts that are being talked about in Britain, which covers a 12-month period. It should be put to good use. It was COVID-related, and it was to assist businesses. There is, therefore, a strong argument for it to be used in that fashion, but it will be for the Executive to decide.”
“It is anticipated that the money will be returned by the large retail chains to the Treasury and then reimbursed to the Executive.”
“Members should note that the rate relief that was awarded to food retailers here was much less generous than in other jurisdictions. Whereas in other areas, food retailers were awarded full rates relief for the whole of this year, we provided only large food stores here with the four-month rates holiday that was awarded to all businesses. <BR /> <BR />To date, Tesco and Asda are the only supermarket chains to have contacted me directly to say that they would like to return their rate relief. However, I am aware that other large retail chains that operate here, including Sainsbury’s, Lidl, B&M Bargains and the Kingfisher Group, which includes B&Q and Screwfix, intend to repay the relief as well. My officials are currently engaging with the Treasury, along with other devolved Administrations, on how the return of the money will be handled.”
“The main elements that cover farm support for 2021-22 have been largely replaced. We have been provided with £315·6 million, but there is no certainty or guarantees beyond that. Of course, we will need to continue to liaise with the Treasury on the position for future years.”
“<BR /> <BR />So, to engage with council groups — I am happy to talk to them at any time — on the shared prosperity fund at this stage would be premature because we do not have the detail to give them any advice. We have been engaging with others on PEACE PLUS and other matters that are progressing, but there is insufficient detail on the shared prosperity fund, and there is not even certainty as to whether we will be administering any of the fund at all.”
“As I said in response to Mr Dickson earlier, the problem is that we do not have the detail on the shared prosperity fund to be able to consult with people. While Scotland and Wales have engaged in some consultation exercises, they have been fairly superficial and subject to change. The Internal Market Bill, which is currently going through Westminster, purports to take responsibility for designing a shared prosperity fund, setting its priorities and applying the funding from Whitehall. That was not the understanding of the devolved Administrations. We, Scotland and Wales clearly understood that EU funding would be replaced to the devolved Administrations, the schemes would be designed by us and the funding would be allocated according to our own local priorities.”
“EU successor funding will operate within the devolved sphere. As such, I do not consider it appropriate for the British Government to conduct local consultations, and therefore I have not discussed that issue with them. I have emphasised to the British Government the need to respect the devolution settlement and to provide the devolved institutions with the funding to spend according to our local priorities. There is insufficient detail available on the priorities and the delivery arrangements for the proposed shared prosperity fund for us to carry out a sensible consultation exercise here. The British Government have indicated that more details will be available on a pilot programme in January 2021 and for the full programme in March 2021, and we will reconsider the position then.”
“There are substantial implications under the judgement, right across the public sector. I assume that each Department is going to have to assess that. My Department is responsible for interdepartmental liaison, but there are significant implications. We have done the consultation and we have received responses to it. There are implications for people's employment as regards the schemes that they have been in and in which they choose to continue working into the future. We will want to assess the consultation responses, and it will be up to each Department to inform us about the particular issues that face them and the public-sector bodies that are under their broad umbrella. The Member is right; there are significant implications that will challenge us in the time ahead.”
“The Department of Finance consultation closed on 18 November. It received 443 responses. Feedback to the consultation is being analysed, and a response will be published early in the new year. Following the publication of the Department's response, I will write to Executive colleagues with firm proposals to progress a legislative solution in order to implement the removal of unlawful age discrimination in public service schemes.”
“I thank the Member for his good wishes. <BR /> <BR />The Department of Finance screening exercise is generally in relation to section 75 matters. I presume that the Department of Justice, which has responsibility for the police pension, will go in to the individuals involved in that scheme. It is a more generic approach from the Department of Finance; we have a responsibility to monitor all of that and to engage with the other Departments. I am sure that the points that he made will be picked up by officials as they engage with other Departments. I assume that the responsibility for the impact and the issue of what has been done in other jurisdictions lies with the responsible Department, which, in this case, is the Department of Justice.”
“My Department has undertaken an equality-screening exercise on the remedy proposals. That will be updated as necessary in response to the issues raised in the recent consultation on the matter. Responsible authorities for the individual public service schemes, including the Department of Justice for the police pension scheme, are also expected to undertake their own assessment of scheme level equality impacts in accordance with the existing commitments in their departmental equality schemes. My Department is monitoring scheme preparedness on all remedy-related matters as part of its regular interdepartmental engagement on the issue.”
“Yes. I encourage them to visit the website to see how they may fit in to it. Of course, it is for building capacity and resilience and improving the long-term standing and ability of a scheme, charity or group to sustain itself and build its own capacity. If they meet the criteria, I see no reason why they should not apply.”
“Yes. That is one of the key components of the funding, particularly for those in the voluntary and community sector, who tend to live on year-to-year funding, which makes it very difficult to plan and sustain themselves and establish longer-term projects to develop their capacity and resilience. The funding is for up to three years, which is important, and it is for up to £100,000, which is a significant amount for many projects. I hope that people will check the lottery website to see whether they fit in to that. <BR /> <BR />Of course, it is also for various sectors to come together to enhance what they are doing in a collaborative way, rather than there being just a single project. The fact that it is over three years is an important aspect.”
“I hope that they have every success in what they are pursuing. However, that scheme is more for developing beyond purchase or building the case to purchase.”
“In building the case to deal with the Department of Education or, if the asset is transferred or bought, or however it is exchanged, in order to develop the asset, the purchase is not eligible under the scheme, because there is an issue with giving public money to buy assets from Departments, meaning that the money essentially comes back into them. I had the opportunity to meet people from the project that the Member talked about, and they were very impressive in their ambition and in the work that they are doing in the area.”
“It will help them to meet future challenges and adapt to be more financially resilient in the longer term so that they can continue making a positive and meaningful impact on many people's life. I encourage organisations to visit the National Lottery Community Fund's website for further details of the fund.”
“This morning, I visited the Footprints Women's Centre in west Belfast to announce the dormant accounts fund. Footprints provides training and childcare on a social enterprise model as well as a social supermarket. Over the last 30 years, the organisation has developed and evolved and is firmly at the heart of its local community. <BR /> <BR />The establishment of the dormant accounts fund is a hugely significant opportunity for the community, voluntary and social enterprise sectors, especially as it will support services that do not normally attract public money. The £20·5 million dormant accounts fund will open for applications on 12 January 2021. By offering multi-year funding, it will provide much-needed certainty to community and voluntary group and social enterprises.”
“<BR /> <BR />LPS is getting through them as quickly as it possibly can, and we encourage people to make sure that they provide the most up-to-date and accurate information. We also encourage people to continue to check their email inboxes and junk mailboxes because, requests often go back out for further information and are not received but are recorded as having been received. I encourage people who are waiting to do that to continue that communication.”
“The Member identifies the complexity of business arrangements. It is not always as straightforward as a shop having to close, being easily identified and paid out to because it is on the rate base where the application was put in correctly. A lot of applications were not put in correctly. <BR /> <BR />There are multiple formations of businesses, and the task is getting to the difficult ones that are a business within a business. I encourage the people who are affected to make sure that all those matters are made available to LPS so that it can properly assess them. It adds to the complexity of considering the case, and sometimes you find that it takes longer to consider those cases than the more straightforward ones.”
“The Department for Communities stepped up to pay social enterprises and charities, which were not within its remit, and the Department for Infrastructure stepped up to pay taxis and coach services, which, again, were not within its remit. Other Departments stepped up to try to assist. I often hear the Executive being criticised for lacking a joined-up approach, but those are examples of Departments going beyond their remit and taking on work that they did not have to take on but needed to in order to respond to the pandemic and to what the public required.”
“The Member is right; LPS is a rate collection agency. The only grant-paying body that we have for business is Invest NI, which comes under the Department for the Economy. Of course, when the pandemic hit, a lot of Departments offered to step up to the plate to assist and make sure that we were all sharing the burden of not only getting funds to the front-line of the health service and assisting it with acquiring critical supplies but of meeting the challenge of businesses. LPS stepped up with paying out for business properties that could be identified. Of course, differentiating between businesses that were under restriction and those that were not was an added challenge and has continued to be.”
“I raised with the Executive that the way that those are devised adds to the difficulty in finding and quickly paying the people who have been caught up in the restrictions. There are challenges, and we will try to meet them, learn lessons from them and continue to apply them, including those that relate to communication.”
“Understandably, it is dealing with a jigsaw to try and restrict the COVID spread, but the consequence of identifying certain business sectors is that a scheme has to be put in place to correctly and accurately identify and distinguish those from other business sectors.”
“I am sorry to hear that the Member has had difficulty getting through, because most of the elected representatives that I have spoken to have managed to get through. At times, it has been difficult. There has been a backlog built up over weekends and things like that which has proved difficult to shift. The Member has to understand that the scheme has changed four times since its original iteration at the start of October. It changed from Derry and Strabane to being 11-council-wide, it increased the payments and it added in additional businesses. All of those changes have had to be factored in to the payment out. That has added to the complexity of it all. <BR /> <BR />I have raised the issue at the Executive to say that, when Health comes forward with a series of recommendations, it does not often think —.”
“Yes, I absolutely get that. The purpose of these schemes is to get money as quickly as possible out on to the ground. The applications have to match and they have to be correct. For some reason, a high level of applications were inaccurate in terms of incorrect business addresses, bank account details, eligibility for the scheme or applying for the wrong scheme. Bear in mind that, when a lot of close contact services closed, some of those could not apply through the rates-based scheme; they needed to apply to the Department for the Economy scheme. So there was duplication in that. There have been a high level of inaccurate applications and multiple applications to deal with, but, as the Member rightly acknowledges, LPS is working as hard as it can to get this done and get it out as quickly as possible.”
“The latest position on the localised restrictions support scheme is that 13,925 applications have been received. Some 7,025 of those applications have been approved, resulting in £49 million being paid to local businesses, and 4,198 applications have been rejected. Members will be aware that further restrictions took effect for a two-week period from 27 November 2020 which placed restrictions on non-essential retail and some other businesses. In relation to those restrictions, over 2,000 applications have been received, and 497 of those have been approved, resulting in almost £1 million being paid out to local businesses. Approximately 500 have been identified as ineligible. Staff were working through the weekend to clear the outstanding cases as quickly as possible, and I expect that more payments will be released this afternoon.”
“Yes, absolutely. It may be the responsibility of other Departments and other Ministers to seek access to that funding, but I will try to ensure that we take full advantage of whatever funding may become available to the Executive through those programmes, depending on the outcome of the talks between the British Government and the European Union. We are facing into a very challenging Budget period, as the Member knows, with the potential loss of EU funding, and we have to access whatever support we can, wherever it is available from. We will examine what is available to us and make sure that any Department, agency or body that can access that is aware of it and is encouraged to do so.”
“The Internal Market Bill that is passing through Westminster seems to wish to take that responsibility into Whitehall and align it with the British Government's levelling-up agenda, which in no way matches the sort of agenda that we have here. There is therefore a significant battle ahead. Fortunately, in that, I am on the same page as the Scottish and Welsh Finance Ministers. We have been making the case collectively and will continue to do so.”
“That funding is not received only by my Department. European funding is across a range of areas. When we go beyond the European social fund and some of the big-ticket items, there are quite a lot of small pots of funding that go to various Departments. We therefore have to analyse that when we estimate the total loss. From looking at that figure and at what the British Government have estimated in their pilot scheme, however, we believe that we could be down some £70 million. <BR /> <BR />One issue is replacement spending power in full, which is a principle that we want to see established, and the other is the ability for the Executive to set priorities locally and allocate funding accordingly.”
“It is also clear that, when the fund is eventually introduced for 2022-23, it may not provide full replacement spending power, will have objectives that are more aligned to the English levelling-up agenda than to our local needs, and will have Whitehall-based rather than local delivery arrangements. That is unacceptable, and I intend to make that case strongly to British Ministers.”
“There is still insufficient detail available on the shared prosperity fund to make a final, informed comparison, but I have a number of concerns about where we may lose out. <BR /> <BR />In my engagement with the British Government on the fund, I have made the case repeatedly for at least full replacement spending power, saying that local control over spending is essential to ensuring that the fund meets local needs. <BR /> <BR />The heads of terms for the shared prosperity fund, released alongside the spending review, indicate that its full introduction will be delayed by a year, representing a potential loss of some £70 million of spending power for us.”
“The National Lottery has significant experience; it has been involved in the distribution of this in England, Scotland and Wales. It has been involved this year in the distribution of charity and social enterprise funding for the Department for Communities. Of course, we want to ensure that funding is targeted where it is needed. There is always that balance between cutting through red tape and doing things quickly and making sure that it is properly accounted for and that it gets to where it is intended to go to. I am sure that that will be a feature of the approach. The accounts for this will be laid in the Assembly and can be studied by Members. They will also be audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General to make sure that there is accountability for where this is being spent.”
“It is not about exclusion; it is about finding a level of support that would not ordinarily come from a single Department to allow those groups to grow and to build their own capacity.”
“No specific Department would assume the role of providing funding to overarching groups for resilience and capacity-building, apart from the particular areas of the project that relate to that Department. <BR /> <BR />When we are talking about services that are not normally funded, we mean that gap between departmental responsibilities. It is not to exclude any scheme or to say that certain organisations cannot apply; it is about capacity-building, resilience and sustainability. Sometimes, when a lot of these community and voluntary sector groups and social enterprises have a range of services that they provide, they cannot get overarching support to sustain the groups themselves; they get support only for some of the individual component parts.”
“As I am sure the Member knows, there are a lot of people who operate in the community and voluntary sector and social enterprise whose remit and ambit straddles various Departments, such as Economy, Health and Education; some of the work is health- and education-related. Communities is a natural home for some of them. A lot of these projects have many facets to them. The one that I visited this morning does work that is beneficial to the trust and the Health Department. It also does educational work and work for the community, which would come in under the remit of the Department for Communities, and it does a lot of social enterprise as well.”
“I share the Member's frustration and that of the sectors that have been waiting on the fund that it has taken so long. I am glad that we are now at the point of being able to do it. We came back into post only in January, and this would have been done earlier this year only for the pandemic overtaking an awful lot of the work in all Departments, including my own. The fund is here now, however, and the strategic plan was laid today in the Assembly Library. Applications will open in January on the National Lottery website, after which I expect that funding will be delivered within a matter of weeks to certain organisations. <BR /> <BR />I repeat the point that the money is not derived from gambling, so there is no obstacle to faith-based groups engaging with the fund.”
“The strategic insight lab, which worked this through, and the consultation both happened in 2019. That is before I was in post in the Department of Finance. A view was taken over the course of that dialogue, which involved all the sectors, that a fairly broadly defined fund that assisted all the groups, and not one that was specifically targeted at sectors, was wanted. Resilience and sustainability were themes. I am sure that the groups that the Member referred to have a space in there. I encourage them to engage with the National Lottery website to find out how to access the funding and for what it is specifically designed. The fund is about achieving much broader resilience without being too sector-specific, but I hope that all sectors will benefit from it.”
“Given the level of bureaucracy attached to some schemes in the past, however, we have all learnt that there is a better way of doing things. This fund gives us the balance between getting money out quickly and more easily and making it more accessible to certain organisations and making sure that it is accounted for properly.”
“One lesson that the pandemic has taught us is that there are ways in which to get money out more quickly to people on the ground, particularly to struggling organisations that provide a valuable and vital service. As I said, many community and voluntary groups have stepped up during the pandemic to assist in the delivery of government services, including services to vulnerable people. Social enterprise has also been hugely important in that regard. <BR /> <BR />The experience of COVID and the fact that the National Lottery was involved in the charities fund and the social enterprise fund has shown us a more efficient way in which to do this. Of course, there has to be accountability. Money that is given out has to be accounted for and audited properly.”
“The National Lottery has been tasked with delivering it — that is now underpinned by guidance and regulations on how to carry it out — so that is the channel through which to access dormant accounts. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to talk to faith-based organisations at any stage, but the dormant accounts fund is being managed by the National Lottery, as was, on behalf of the Department for Communities, the money for charities and social enterprises. Of course, that was the remit of the Department for Communities, but I have not heard of any negative experience.”
“As I said, there has been quite a lot of discussion about all of that, as the Member will know from his time in the Department. I am glad that we are now in the position where the fund is being launched. We had hoped to have done so earlier this year, but the pandemic knocked an awful lot of work sideways, and the National Lottery then became involved in supporting the charities and social enterprises assisting the Department for Communities, which was a very valuable piece of work. I am sure that those charities included faith-based organisations. I made the very clear statement that this money is not derived from gambling. This is the fund that has been set up.”
“I agree on the need for fairness across all those issues. I chair the reconstituted Procurement Board, which meets for the first time on Wednesday, and social value policies will be on the agenda. I am still looking at a social value Act to underpin that with legislation.”
“This morning, I had the opportunity to visit the Footprints Women's Centre in the Colin area of west Belfast, which provides a hugely valuable service to the community there but also has a social enterprise side. This plan fits very neatly into that model and can encourage economic recovery as well as ensuring that services and support are provided to vulnerable people and communities.”
“As I said, it was developed in 2019, before we experienced COVID. Undoubtedly, the need for resilience and sustainability in organisations and social enterprises has been heightened by the COVID experience and challenge. Those organisations not only assisted many of the Departments and, indeed, councils in working with the community during the pandemic but they lost a lot of possible revenue, and there was uncertainty over funding. So, while the fund is not intended to be specifically COVID related, the COVID experience has exacerbated the position of some of those groups and heightened the need for support for sustainability measures for them, and I see this as fitting into that. <BR /> <BR />Social enterprises in particular have a presence in the broader economic recovery.”
“There is certainly an issue there with regard to developing an asset. There is also an issue with regard to money that is put forward by a Department and given out by the National Lottery that is then paid back to a Department for the actual purchase of an asset. Therefore, building up a case to purchase, developing an asset when it has been purchased, and all those matters would come under the scope of the scheme, but not the actual purchase itself.”
“There has been dialogue with faith-based groups in relation to that. It is important that we state very clearly that the source of those assets is not derived from gambling. Those groups should understand that. I hope that they do understand that and that they are able to look to those funds for whatever sustainability and resilience issues that faith-based groups might need to access them for. The details on all that will be available, probably from later today or, certainly, in the next couple of days, on the National Lottery Community Fund website. It will open for applications in January. I encourage everyone, including faith-based groups, to access that information. I can assure them that the assets are not derived from gambling.”
“As the Member knows, it is about capacity building, resilience and allowing those organisations to develop, grow and become more sustainable. It is important that the money stretches out over a period for them. As soon as we get more detail on that, I will be happy to update the Committee and Assembly.”
“I thank the Committee Chair for his input. The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport in London continues to work on the matter of dormant assets. It is intended to expand out and, therefore, increase substantially. Our expectation is a substantial increase to funding that is available through those schemes to the community, voluntary and social-enterprise sectors. The exact amount will become clearer once the level of detail is worked through in London. As I have said, it is a one- to three-year funding stream, so I hope that we would get that certainty with regard to year-on-year funding, so that not only could we distribute it to where it is needed most but we could actually give organisations some guarantee about their future funding.”
“I will continue to update Members on that issue and to engage with the voluntary, community and social enterprise sector on how those additional funds can be used most effectively here. I also intend that any future fund will reflect a co-design approach and reflect the needs of people here. <BR /> <BR />The establishment of the £20·5 million dormant accounts fund is a hugely significant opportunity for the community, voluntary and social enterprise sectors. It will help those sectors to adapt to future challenges and to be more financially resilient in the longer term. Multi-year funding provides certainty and will enable our community, voluntary and social enterprises to continue to make a positive and meaningful impact on many people’s lives. I look forward to updating Members in January when the fund opens.”
“The National Lottery Community Fund will identify these proposals through convening and opening calls to action. <BR /> <BR />The dormant accounts fund is available to organisations from rural and urban locations. It will open for applications in January, and I encourage organisations in the sector to visit the National Lottery Community Fund website to find out more. <BR /> <BR />I take this opportunity to update Members on work being led by the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport to expand the definition of dormant accounts to include dormant assets, such as company dividends, share portfolios etc. That expanded definition will likely result in further funding being made available here.”