Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“The Department delivers a range of supports to those who are eligible, and I am clear in my support for meeting the needs of those who are genuinely entitled. However, those who are lying about their circumstances and claiming tens of thousands of pounds in benefits to which they are not entitled are fraudsters. I want the public to help us to identify that criminal activity and to support us in deterring anyone from going down that path. <BR /> <BR />The benefits landscape is changing, with more people moving on to UC. Our world is also changing, bringing different societal behaviours, increased misinformation and emerging sophisticated technologies. I have set out a coherent, robust and comprehensive suite of measures to do that.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our third action will be to maximise technology solutions in conjunction with DWP and other Departments at Westminster and locally to aid investigative efforts. We will continue to actively collaborate with government colleagues on shared fraud defence systems. For obvious security reasons and because of the highly sensitive nature of that work, Members will understand that I cannot say more on that at present. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we will increase public understanding of benefit fraud and raise awareness of our zero-tolerance approach. Today, I have launched a new advertising campaign on radio, in newspapers and on social media, to highlight our work to identify and root out fraudsters. It is really important that there is no confusion here.”
“The first of those will be to enhance and expand current fraud and error activities. We will strengthen the validation of claimants’ declared circumstances. Linked to that, I want to see a ramp-up of investment in our benefit security and universal credit teams, with around 200 additional staff to help us to keep pace with DWP's counter-fraud activity. We will also strengthen specialist training and support for staff to double down on fraud and error, including mistakes made by officials. That will include the roll-out of a programme of education and guidance on fraud and error indicators and reporting responsibilities, along with improvements to the visibility of outcomes across the Department.”
“That has given us a level of assurance that existing measures to reduce fraud and error are effective and commensurate. There is no doubt, however, that the historic underfunding of the Department in this area has significantly constrained our ability to scale fraud and error activity. The £16·7 million allocated to tackle benefit fraud and error in 2025-26 is insufficient, as the scale and complexity of the challenge before us is rising. Current allocations mean that we cannot maintain parity with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and bear down on fraud and error to the extent that, we know, we need to. <BR /> <BR />We cannot stand still. Today, I am committed to accepting the recommendations in the task and finish report in driving forward work across four key areas.”
“We are seeing earlier identification of suspicious claims, better targeting of high-risk areas and more effective investigation outcomes. It remains my absolute priority to protect public money and to ensure that benefits go to the people who are genuinely entitled. However, we cannot be complacent, and we must stay ahead of the fraudsters. That is why, last year, I commissioned an in-depth internal analysis to critically assess current interventions and to make recommendations on robust measures to reduce levels of fraud and error. <BR /> <BR />Today, I pay tribute to the task and finish group for its work. In developing its findings, the group drew on internal expertise, external insights and robust data analysis, supported by intensive stakeholder engagement and collaboration.”
“More than 5,000 employment and support allowance (ESA) cases were reviewed in the same period, correcting 677 ESA claims and saving the Department £2·5 million. As a result of compliance work in the Department, 2,654 cases were concluded up to the end of 2025, resulting in savings of £7·1 million.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important to be clear that fraud is a complex area in which fraud investigation is only one approach. We have dedicated risk teams and proactive interventions that help us to prevent and resolve issues at the earliest possible stage. To give examples, my Department reviewed over 16,000 universal credit (UC) cases up to the end of December 2025, correcting 2,072 UC claims and saving the Department over £10·6 million.”
“In 2025-26, £16·7 million will be spent on bearing down on fraud and error through existing counter-fraud activity across my Department. The Department also undertakes debt recovery work to identify and recover overpayments, whether caused by fraud, error or changes in circumstances, and manages repayment in a fair and proportionate way. Up until 31 December 2025, that had resulted in a total recovery of £638,636. <BR /> <BR />The Department continually assesses the value and impact of fraud and error work. That includes routine monitoring of operational performance, recovery levels and wider preventative activity. The Department's benefit security teams, which lead on all counter-fraud activity, also undertake quarterly reviews to ensure that resources are focused on areas of highest risk.”
“Some fraudsters do not even live here, like the person whose £35,000 fraud funded a life in the Philippines. I have taken away the shield of anonymity from those who steal from all of us and lifted the silence on the corrosive impact of those fraudulent activities. The response from the public to shining a light on those stories has been overwhelmingly positive. That has fuelled my determination not just to root out those committing fraud but to step up our efforts to deter anyone who may be considering going down that path. <BR /> <BR />By the end of December 2025, 497 criminal investigations into benefit fraud had been concluded. From 1 April 2025 to 6 February 2026, 57 prosecutions had been made as a direct result of the relentless investigatory work of my Department.”
“Since doing so, my Department has seen anonymous fraud referrals from members of the public rise to 9,857 at the end of January 2026 compared with a total year-end figure of 6,353 for 2024-25. It is clear that, as a result of my leadership on those issues, benefit fraud and error is now clearly on the public agenda. <BR /> <BR />To the annoyance of some in the Chamber, I will keep highlighting the issue and keep it as a priority for the Department. I make no apology for doing that because those cases show shocking levels of dishonesty. Such cases include a 38-year-old woman who lied about her living arrangements to fraudulently claim over £76,000, or the 29-year-old man who gave false information about his living arrangements, disability and savings to falsely claim over £43,000.”
“My mission is clear: to deliver a welfare system that is fair, transparent and focused on those who need it most. In February last year, I stood in the Chamber, and I was categorical then in saying that welfare fraud is not just a financial issue; it is a moral one. That remains true today. Fraud is not a victimless crime. When individuals cheat the system, they are taking support from those who need it most. <BR /> <BR />In 2024, 3·7% of benefit expenditure — a staggering £350·3 million — was lost due to fraud and error. At this time of significant budget constraint, we must call out benefit fraud, ensuring that public money is directed to our key services and not to criminals. In April 2025, in an early and visible signal of my intent, I reintroduced the departmental practice of naming those who had been found guilty in the courts.”
“It is not an issue that has been brought to my attention, and it was not raised at the North/South meeting. I am more than happy to find out for him whether the issue has been raised and whether the agencies are doing anything on it. However, I suspect that it would fall into the remit of the Department for the Economy and its responsibilities for broadcasting.”
“I am afraid that I do not have the information about the vacancy rate in each of the bodies. That information was not presented to us as an issue, but I will certainly find it out for the Member and respond to her in writing.”
“It is the role of the Department to provide the funding to the bodies. The bodies then decide how much is put towards their individual work streams. It is not directly up to me to involve myself in any of those programmes or to allocate funding. That is why we have the language body and the agencies in place. However, I can provide her with the exact amount that has been spent on the initiative. After the meeting, I had a very interesting conversation with Minister Reilly, who was educated through the medium of Irish, about the importance of the dictionary. We recognise the practical and positive benefit that can come from the dictionary, and no doubt the agencies will take that on board as they seek to do their work.”
“The Member might be aware that significant additional resource has been put in place by the Irish Government. That has helped to provide support to over 90 groups to promote the Irish language in the arts sector. Obviously, it will be up to Foras na Gaeilge to decide on how to spend its budget and on whether it wants to put more into those specific programmes, as it is up to the Irish Government to decide whether to allocate any additional resource for that purpose. I said to Mrs Mason that I am happy to provide that information to her; I will also share it with the Member.”
“I do not want to sign up to something that will put an additional burden on us, because I recognise that the Finance Minister, who has just walked into the Chamber, wants me to make sure that I keep within my budget.”
“Of course, we need to make sure that the funding formula is fit for purpose. We need to make sure that it is affordable for us. There are many demands on all Departments, including my Department. All those issues need to be taken into consideration. However, that does not prevent the Irish Government from putting more of their resource into, for example, some of the projects that Foras na Gaeilge provides. They are at liberty to do that; indeed, they have done that. They put in additional money, as each jurisdiction is entitled to do. If Governments want to put in additional resources, they can do that. The Irish Government have done that.”
“I am very glad to answer the Member's question and any other question that she might want to put to me. I think that it is always better if we can act in a grown-up and mature way. I look forward to that in the future. <BR /> <BR />I think that 90 different projects were funded in that way. I am more than happy to get information on those and highlight the projects in Northern Ireland, perhaps even in the Member's constituency.”
“Ultimately, it is up to the agencies to make the case for the funding that they require to make sure that their staff are in place and to use their budget in a way that delivers on the objectives in their corporate plans and business plans for that year. An increase in staffing complement was agreed so that the agencies can continue with the work that they need to do. The staffing complement had been static for many years, but their work continues. We will continue to work with each agency to ensure that appropriate staffing resource is in place so that we can deliver on the corporate and business plans.”
“There are extensive outcomes in the business plans. If the Member does not have those, I am sure that we can provide them to her, because extensive work will be carried out in both areas, and we want to achieve many outcomes. I could go through a number of those, but it would take some time, so it would be better for me to furnish her with that information. I am happy to do that.”
“No, because there were grown-ups in the room who had the ability to articulate their views and make their points without resorting to name-calling.”
“I will make sure that any of that information that we hold is shared with the Committee for Communities. The work that is being done is so broad and is delivered in so many settings that it is impossible to quantify its total impact. I am happy to go away and see what specific information we can share with the Committee. The Member raised a good point: we want to make sure that the money that is being spent has the intended impact. He will see that some of that information has already been provided and is published, and some of that was in the update. I will, however, ensure that the Committee is furnished with that information.”
“At that stage, it will be analysed, and then it can be taken to the Executive for a final decision and publication.”
“First, I do not believe that that hinders the work of Foras na Gaeilge or other language bodies. Indeed, we had the progress report, and the Member will be able to see the continuing work in that sphere. Secondly, on the Member's question about costs, I am not the one who is taking action. I did not initiate that action, but we have to respond to it. Unfortunately, cost and expense will come with that. <BR /> <BR />The Irish language strategy did not come up during the NSMC language body meeting, but, as I have set out many times, the cross-departmental working group has been established. The work of that group has gone out to Departments to get the actions that that group would like to see taken — the actions that Departments can afford to take. As soon as that comes back to the cross-departmental working group, it will come to me.”
“The Council agreed to hold the meeting in spring 2026. <BR /> <BR />I commend the statement to the House.”
“The next item on the agenda was a presentation from Foras na Gaeilge on its online Irish dictionary. The Council noted Foras na Gaeilge's pioneering work in developing the Irish language’s first online, single-language dictionary, and its plans for the continued development of an online Irish-English dictionary. <BR /> <BR />The fourth item to be addressed was staffing complement. The Council agreed that officials should continue to work with each agency to ensure that appropriate staffing is in place to deliver on the objectives outlined in their corporate and business plans. <BR /> <BR />The next item to be addressed was board appointments. The Council approved the appointment of board members to the language body. <BR /> <BR />The final issue to be addressed was the date of the next NSMC language body meeting.”
“The Council addressed a range of governance matters and approved the language body's 2026 business plans, budgets and 2026-28 corporate plans, all of which were prepared in line with the guidance from both Finance Departments and agreed by sponsor Departments and both Finance Ministers. The Council also noted that the consolidated annual reports and accounts for 2022 and 2023 have been certified by both Comptrollers and Auditors General and laid before the Northern Ireland Assembly and both Houses of the Oireachtas and that the audit of the 2024 accounts is nearing completion.”
“Achievements included the delivery of the first tranche of online entries for the Irish language's first comprehensive monolingual dictionary; the provision of support to over 90 groups to promote the Irish language in the arts sector; the supporting of tuition in Ulster-Scots music and dance in over 200 community settings and 100 schools across Ulster; and the delivery of 36 talks promoting the Ulster-Scots language to schools and community groups, which reached more than 1,000 people. <BR /> <BR />The second item to be discussed was corporate governance matters.”
“As part of opening remarks, Ministers acknowledged the work of the language body and the positive impact that the agencies have had on the language and cultural sectors on both sides of the border. Following opening remarks, I, as chair, introduced a number of items that form the basis of this statement. <BR /> <BR />The first item to be discussed was the language body progress report. The Council noted the progress reports that were received from the chairs and chief executive officers of the Ulster-Scots Agency and Foras na Gaeilge, as well as the key achievements of the language body since the previous sectoral meeting.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. With your permission, and in compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I will make a statement on the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) language body meeting that was held at the Monaghan Peace Campus on 3 December. The Executive were represented by me and by junior Minister Reilly as the accompanying Minister. The Irish Government were represented by Dara Calleary TD, the Minister for Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht. The statement has been agreed with junior Minister Reilly, and I make it on behalf of both of us. <BR /> <BR />The meeting dealt with issues relating to the NSMC language body and its two constituent agencies, the Ulster-Scots Agency and Foras na Gaeilge. A number of topics were discussed, with decisions being taken where appropriate.”
“Therefore, I will ask officials to engage with colleagues in the Department for the Economy and National Museums NI to explore what is possible. I thank Members for tabling the motion and for their contributions to the debate.”
“However, he illustrated our sporting history and what could bring people into a museum, including the displays that we currently have. <BR /> <BR />Pádraig Delargy spoke about the economic benefit. That, of course, should be part of our discussions, not just in the initial phases of the project but as regards what income can be brought in. I hope that he, too, recognises the work that is being done to support grassroots sports through the Olympic legacy fund. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to confirm that I am fully supportive of anything that promotes sport. Our superstars have indeed created memories. Any opportunity to relive those magic moments and offer the next generation the chance to learn about our proud sporting tradition is positive.”
“I hope that she can acknowledge that that is exactly what I am trying to deal with, particularly through the Olympic legacy fund and the grants that will soon go to those clubs. They will make a difference, and I hope that that programme continues. <BR /> <BR />Justin McNulty has, in his mind, already been scavenging and pilfering objects from all our sports stars. I do not think that there is anything left to put on his list. He might want to first ask the permission of some of those people, before he grabs all of those objects.”
“He also mentioned the Bangor development, so I hope that he can acknowledge the work that has been done on that and how it is being taken forward. Perhaps that is still a location for the museum that he has in mind. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful to Maurice Bradley for his comments. He told us that he had been playing football from age 15 to 54, so I am sure that his club is missing him since he gave that up last year. I am grateful for his insight and expertise on that. <BR /> <BR />Colm Gildernew rightly mentioned some of the stories and history that could be included. That is certainly worth exploring. <BR /> <BR />Sian Mulholland mentioned nearly every sporting club in North Antrim and every potential sports star from there. She also made an important point about grassroots sports funding.”
“<BR /> <BR />If a group or organisation were to bring forward a project for a sports museum, it may be possible for the Northern Ireland Museums Council, as the lead body for supporting local museums on behalf of my Department, to provide advice and expertise, particularly in areas such as museum standards, accreditation, education and outreach. <BR /> <BR />I want to address some of the comments that have been made this evening and are broadly supportive of the motion. The proposer of the motion said a couple of times: build it, and they will come. Those are powerful words but perhaps not entirely in keeping with the standards and requirements of 'Managing Public Money NI', which sets out the rules and the framework for how we spend public funds. It is certainly an argument that I will put anyway. I appreciate the Member's enthusiasm.”
“<BR /> <BR />The sport and physical activity strategy was developed on behalf of all Departments, and, at present, my Department does not have an allocated budget to explore or develop such a proposal. A new sports museum delivering such a broad range of outcomes may therefore be better positioned as an Executive programme, requiring collaborative design together with funding and oversight. That approach may provide a stronger opportunity to fully collaborate with multiple partners, including Departments, Sport NI, district councils, Museums NI, sporting governing bodies, UK-wide capital programmes, such as DCMS- and lottery-supported schemes, and potential partners while ring-fencing an appropriate budget.”
“I have had the pleasure of being there many times and seeing that for myself. It is absolutely right that those are things that could be included. I will come to that a little more in a second. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that a sports museum could add to our sporting legacy, encourage increased participation in sport and generate economic benefits for Northern Ireland through anticipated growth in tourism. The proposer of the motion asks that I work with the Minister for the Economy to establish a working group. However, as the expected benefits are likely to include increased sporting participation, enhanced heritage and museum value, positive health outcomes and tourism growth, it is my view that the motion spans even wider cross-departmental priorities.”
“In order to explore the proposals in the motion further, detailed engagement with governing bodies across the sports sector will be essential to ensure that the new museum concept does not displace existing facilities or undermine their established revenue models. I am aware that there are already sporting elements to a number of museums here, including the Ulster Transport Museum and the Ballymoney Museum, which has the motorcycling display. I acknowledge that the Member's motion for a sports —.”
“Instead of a single museum for all sports, the UK has a wide range of dedicated museums for major sports such as football, rugby, cricket, tennis, golf and motor sport, to mention but a few. Each focuses on its own rich history, traditions and supporter base. As a result, the UK has a highly specialised museum landscape, with many sport-specific institutions, but it has no multi-sports museum that brings all sports together under one roof.”
“By celebrating the achievements of our athletes and presenting their powerful role-model stories, there is an opportunity to provide an accessible and inclusive space in which to inspire and motivate, as well as to foster community pride. A sports museum would emphasise participation, shared spaces and the importance of recognising excellence and achievement. A museum of that kind would complement our wider ambition to support lifelong involvement in sport and physical activity, thus helping more people to become more active more of the time. <BR /> <BR />There is no museum in the UK that brings together all sports in a single institution. That is largely because of the way in which sporting heritage has evolved through having distinct, independent sporting cultures rather than their being under a unified national framework.”
“Last September, I was also pleased to launch the Olympic legacy fund, which will provide equipment and enhanced local supporting facilities to drive increased participation. <BR /> <BR />I have been privileged to be able to recognise achievements across a broad range of sports by hosting various receptions, including ones for Michael Dunlop, the Belfast Giants, the Special Olympics team, the World Transplant Games team and even a Northern Ireland tug of war team. I therefore recognise the role that sports play, and I do not doubt that a sports museum could play a positive role in our society. It could increase participation in sport, particularly among our young people. The merits of the proposed museum align closely with the objectives of my Department's sport and physical activity strategy for Northern Ireland, 'Active Living'.”
“The achievements of sportsmen and sportswomen from Northern Ireland continue to inspire our young people, but they are also a source of immense pride for all of us. I was very proud to host a reception for our Olympians and Paralympians at the SSE Arena to celebrate their unprecedented haul of seven medals: four golds, a silver and two bronze. It was a fitting occasion, attended by close to 4,500 people, on which to recognise not only our six Paris Olympic medallists but all those who achieved the honour of representing Northern Ireland on the world stage. I was pleased to build on that success by establishing the Olympic medallist fund, which will allow our medallists to give back to their community by supporting grassroots projects.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the proposer of the motion and everybody who contributed to the debate. <BR /> <BR />Members will know that I am a very strong advocate for sport in Northern Ireland. During my time as Minister, I think that I have engaged with almost every single sport in Northern Ireland at some level and have tried to understand their development needs. We have made progress. We have advanced work on the Executive's much-stalled flagship programmes. We have secured much-needed additional investment to support grassroots sport, which has been delivered through Sport NI. <BR /> <BR />Why have I done that? I have done so because I fully recognise the positive and lasting impact that sport has on our communities.”
“I therefore thank the Member for continuing to raise the issue and assure her of my commitment to ensuring that we will do what we can here to address it. I commend the motion to the Assembly.”
“Maintaining parity is key for the most important reason, which is to ensure that people in Northern Ireland are treated in a fair and equal way. <BR /> <BR />I note Mrs Dillon's comments. We have talked about the issue a number of times before, and it is an area of agreement. I have worked with UK Government Ministers on it, and I also pay tribute to those who have been lobbying for the change to be made. We often talk about the need to support those who are most vulnerable, and it is certainly the case that people who experience end-of-life issues have not only financial pressures that come to bear on them but accompanying huge emotional distress. We therefore want to make sure that people are helped and that those who have paid into the system get the benefit from having done so in the time that they have left.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have raised those issues in conversations with Stephen Timms and other Ministers and told them that respect needs to be shown for the devolved processes. I understand that there are times when things move quickly as a result of things needing to be done owing to time pressures at Westminster, but Committees in this place should, without exception, be able to undertake proper scrutiny. I recognise that circumstances sometimes do not allow that to happen, but I make it clear that it is certainly not because of any lack of want on my part to ensure that the Committee can play its role. <BR /> <BR />I hope that Westminster's approach will change in future so that Committees get the time that they need to scrutinise LCMs properly. I believe, however, that the main issues have been rehearsed.”
“I thank the Members who contributed to the debate. I thank the Chairperson of the Committee for Communities for the broad welcome that he and the Committee have given to the moves. <BR /> <BR />I recognise the fact that the Committee did not have proper time to scrutinise the legislative consent memorandum. I assure the Chairperson, the Committee and the whole House that that was not because of some lack of desire on my part to ensure that the Committee got to undertake proper scrutiny. As is often the case with many such Bills that originate in Westminster, there are time pressures involved, and I understand that the Committee has expressed concern about the approach taken by the LCM on other matters, and I will address that concern in due course.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am aware of the Assembly's role in considering legislation, and of the Committee's scrutiny role in particular. Whilst Standing Order 42A(9) does not invoke a requirement for the Committee to report on subsequent LCMs, details on the amendment measures have been provided to the Committee for Communities, and officials will provide an additional briefing to the Committee at its meeting on 29 January. The preference would have been to have conducted that briefing in advance of today's debate, but time constraints connected to the progress of the Westminster Bill have not afforded the opportunity for longer consideration. I therefore beg to move that the Assembly agrees the motion.”
“Therefore, it is essential that provision is made for Northern Ireland to be included. <BR /> <BR />If it is agreed that clauses 109 and 116(4) and 116(5) of the Bill should extend to here, it will allow those important provisions to be enacted at the same time across the UK and ensure that citizens of Northern Ireland benefit from their introduction at the same time as citizens in the rest of the UK. Whilst I seek to avoid using the LCM process, where possible, it is sensible to use it to secure, for Northern Ireland members, the pension scheme benefits afforded by those provisions by agreeing to an LCM in respect of the listed clauses. The intention is that a parity Bill will be brought before the Assembly for all relevant remaining clauses in the Westminster Bill.”
“The measure will ensure that compensation from the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme on pensions built up before 6 April 1997 is linked to CPI inflation up to a cap of 2·5% and that it applies prospectively for members whose schemes provided mandatory or statutory inflation increases on pre-1997 pensions. It is a positive measure and will boost the incomes of those affected. <BR /> <BR />Subsections 4 and 5 of clause 116 of the Bill seek to amend the Pensions Act 2004 to implement changes to the Pension Protection Fund and fraud compensation levies. Legislative consent is required to allow for the administrative expenses of the Pension Protection Fund and the Fraud Compensation Fund to be met by the reserves within those funds. The Pension Protection Fund and the Fraud Compensation Fund are UK-wide schemes.”