Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
The complete record
Every one of 5,903 lines we hold for Gordon Lyons, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 24 of 119.
“The Housing Executive has indicated that an estimated 25 properties will be purchased in the current financial year. That will be followed by 125 properties next year, 225 properties in 2027-28 and 225 properties in 2028-29.”
“I have to recognise that all sports are self-governing, and that World Boxing, as the recognised international governing body, has the ultimate authority to decide how boxing is organised in Northern Ireland. I do not believe, however, that what we currently have in place fulfils the promise in the Good Friday Agreement about people being able to compete under their own identity. Change is needed. Our particular circumstances need to be accounted for. I took this issue on when I came into office, and I assure the House that I will continue to press on it until we get the changes that are so desperately required.”
“I have raised that issue. We need to do a number of things to make sure that that happens. One of those is to get the sports councils of the UK to look at the issue. I am pleased to announce to the House, if it is not already aware of it, that they are undertaking a review of the recognition policy. I look forward to learning of any proposed changes arising from that review and to understanding those changes' implications for sports that are seeking to establish a governing body in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I have also written to international governing bodies in support of organisations that wish to become the national governing body for their sport in Northern Ireland.”
“which demonstrates that equality was not there. It also says that issues highlighted in that report "are still live". That all indicates that there is a real problem, especially with governance. I will repeat what I have said to the House previously: it is a requirement for any sports governing body that is recognised by Sport NI to demonstrate high levels of governance and a commitment to good relations. That is lacking right now, and the situation needs to change. There will be consequences if there is not that change.”
“Again, I believe that that is indicative of that not being in place at the minute. I will read some of the other things that the report says, because it is important to highlight them. It says:”
“That shows that it does not currently reflect the communities in Northern Ireland. Another recommendation is that we need to see:”
“I want to see the recommendations implemented. It is right that we pick up on what some of those recommendations are. One is:”
“It should ultimately be for sports to bring forward their own policies. It is not necessarily the right way forward to lift something from one sport and put it in place for everybody. The issue has been highlighted because of how the problems that already existed have come to the fore. We are always willing to look at issues to make sure that everything that can be done is being done so that people can operate in a fair and equitable way. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for welcoming the statement; everyone in the House should welcome it. Everybody, together, should want to make sure that the work is completed as quickly as possible so that this is not an issue for anybody in the future.”
“I certainly hope that this is starting a journey down a road, because it has gone on for far too long. It is not acceptable. <BR /> <BR />The Member is absolutely right to mention Daryl by name. It is absolutely unacceptable that someone was not able to progress, when they had the skill, talent and ability to do so, because of their community background or perceived religion. That is wrong. That needs to stop, and I can assure the Member that I will do everything in my power to make sure that this is the end of it.”
“First, I pay tribute to Phillip Brett and Cheryl Brownlee for the work that they have done in bringing this issue to the fore and drawing attention to the matter, because there are many who would have liked to see it brushed under the carpet. Many people would have liked to pretend that it was not happening and that it was not a serious issue. I am absolutely delighted that they have taken the stand that they have taken. They have been determined in bringing it forward. I know that Mr Brett, in particular, has brought it to the Floor many times, and it is right that that is acknowledged and that his work on the issue is recognised, because it should not be acceptable any more. It should not be something that we can just turn a blind eye to.”
“It is the same for any organisation that receives money from Sport NI or indeed from any arm's-length body of my Department. It is a requirement for them to demonstrate high levels of governance and a commitment to good relations. If that is missing in any way, of course there will be consequences. It would be unfathomable for me or my officials to endorse a funding relationship in its current form if that issue has not been dealt with.”
“No, absolutely not. Perhaps it shows some confidence in me instead. It is not a reflection on Sport NI at all. It is about bringing the weight of my ministerial office to making sure that it is done. It needs to be a priority, because I believe that what happened was egregious. It should never have happened and should never happen again. We are doing everything in our power to make sure that it does not.”
“Sport should be inclusive of all communities. This case is an example of how we could be dragged into the past, but I will not allow that to happen. That is why I have decided to intervene. The review panel will report regularly to me, and I hope that I and others in the House will be satisfied by the progress that it makes. <BR /> <BR />The Member referred specifically to the IABA and the Ulster Boxing Council. I hope that they realise that there is a responsibility on their part to ensure that change takes place so that we can move forward, and I look forward to them playing their part and making the change that is long overdue.”
“I assure the Member that I will continue to deliver on all other areas in my Department, but I can still give this the time that it needs in order to get it sorted once and for all. In doing so, I hope that it will never be on any other Minister's plate in the future.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I am glad that she said that it is an unusual step to take. I am happy to step out of the status quo and what is normal in order to get things done. Sometimes things move slowly, and you need to get in there, be prepared to put your shoulder to the wheel and do the work yourself. I am happy to do that. I want to have control over this to make sure that I push it forward and it is not left. In the past, in 2013, it was left, and recommendations were not implemented, so I hope that I can bring the weight of ministerial office to the process and make sure that we get on with it and get it done. I have emphasised again and again today that this is unacceptable. If it is unacceptable, we must do everything that we can to make sure that it does not happen again.”
“No, I am not satisfied that it has ended, but I am satisfied that I will do everything that I can to make sure that it does end and that we are not in this situation again. The Member is absolutely right to mention Lewis. I am sure that the whole House will join me in congratulating him on his outstanding achievements, which are of particular note considering what he has had to go through and the barriers that were put in his way. That should not happen to anybody again. It is only because of his perseverance that he got to that stage, but no one else should have to go through that to achieve in that way. There is still much work for the organisations to do in order to rebuild trust with all sections of the community, and I hope that my oversight of the panel will ensure that the matter is dealt with as soon as possible.”
“It is right that we put the pressure on to make sure that those recommendations are implemented. I will do that as soon as I can.”
“The Member conflates different issues. The Irish language strategy, along with the Ulster-Scots strategy, is being developed in coordination with other Departments. A lot of that is outside my control. <BR /> <BR />What we are dealing with here are allegations of discrimination and practices that have been going on for far too long that should not have gone on. We are trying to right a wrong. We are trying to make sure that what happened in the past cannot happen again in the future. We are talking about the real impact that such practices have had on people. Those people have not progressed. Imagine being at the top of your sport but not being chosen to take part in the Commonwealth Games, not because of your talent, ability or skill but because of other reasons. That is scandalous and wrong.”
“The Member will be aware that reviews of governance procedures always take place in different organisations. I can certainly provide him with information on those. I am more than happy to use whatever powers I have to step in where we need to take action to ensure that everybody is treated equally, because what happened was outrageous. No one should feel that they cannot progress in any sport because of their background, the community that they come from or their faith. I hope that we can stand united on that around the Chamber.”
“The same applies to the recommendations on social media policies and other policies that will need to be put in place.”
“The Member highlights one of the issues that existed in the first place, which was that it was not for the Department to take those recommendations forward. That is why I want to make sure that there is a role for me in this matter so that there can be oversight and that progress reports can be provided. Perhaps one of the other reasons why some of the recommendations were not taken forward was that there was a reluctance on the part of those who were involved to do so because it would have upset the status quo. There can be no room for the status quo when that does not lead to fair and equitable outcomes for everybody. That is why I am determined that there will be progress. People are long past fed up with how long it has taken for some of those issues to be resolved.”
“The Member is right to highlight the bravery of those who have been prepared to stand up, speak out and take action. It is not the easiest thing to do. As I said in my statement, the easiest thing is to stay quiet and say nothing at all. However, I commend Daryl and others who came forward and made their case, because they did so not only for themselves but for those who come after. It is a difficult thing to do, and they should be praised for that. I will send this clear message: I will not tolerate discrimination in any shape or form. This should not come into sport at all. I hope that that is an encouragement to everyone that they can step forward and that they will have support from me and my Department in making sure that we have policies and procedures in place that are fair to everybody.”
“There is a requirement on me to make sure that public funding goes to organisations that uphold the law and demonstrate high levels of governance and a commitment to good relations. The recommendations are very clear on what needs to happen. They were clear in 2013, of course, but they were not implemented. Therefore, my involvement will be to make sure that there is faithful implementation of those recommendations, and no one should be fearful of that.”
“That is still to be determined, but I will be very clear with the Member and the House: I want to see action being taken, and that is what is going to drive me on this. For over 12 years, we have been waiting for action to be taken, and too many of the recommendations made in the report in 2013 have not been implemented. Therefore, I do not believe that this should take a long time, but I will consider how and when to set up that panel. Let me be very clear: speed is of the essence because this should not be allowed to continue for a moment longer.”
“There is too much at stake to do nothing. <BR /> <BR />To Daryl and others like him, I say this: I am sorry for the barriers that you have faced and for the opportunities that have been lost. That is not your fault. We must ensure that it does not happen again. I commend the statement to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />My hope is that, if they are fully implemented as the commission intends, those measures will have the effect of increasing confidence in boxing as an inclusive sport for all communities across Northern Ireland. Let me send a message to all our young sporting hopefuls: I want you to fulfil your aspirations. I want you to be able to compete and not have to worry about the impact that your faith or community background will have on your ability to progress. Merit, not identity, must be the determining factor. <BR /> <BR />I will do all in my power to ensure that the recommendations are implemented. If they are not, those responsible will be held to account. There must be no going back. There must be no acceptance of the status quo. Change is needed, and it must be delivered. I will ensure that that happens.”
“<BR /> <BR />Today, I am announcing a new oversight panel for that process. The panel will be established under my direct control and will be complete within 18 months. I will ensure that it properly holds the IABA and the UBC to account through public progress reports. Let me remind the House that those organisations receive public funding through arm's-length bodies of my Department. Any further slippage will not be tolerated. <BR /> <BR />The commission has also undertaken to engage further with the IABA and the UBC to ensure that next steps are implemented with rigour and in a timely fashion. I put on record my thanks to its chief commissioner, Geraldine McGahey, and its chief executive, Louise Conlon, for their work on the report and for the briefing that they provided to me when we met last month.”
“<BR /> <BR />Secondly, the report rightly calls for a code of conduct that includes the displaying of emblems and flags and other displays of identity. Safe venues for boxers should be non-negotiable for all inter-club and championship events. The report also highlights the long-overdue social media policy, which was drafted in response to the independent working group but, again, not implemented. <BR /> <BR />Finally, the report makes clear that Protestants are under-represented on county boards, UBC committees and IABA structures. In order for decision-making to reflect properly the respect and balance that is required for all communities in Northern Ireland, it is recommended that there be co-option of new members and capacity-building in order to ensure that that important balance is struck.”
“He persevered, however, not just for his own sake but for the sake of those who come after him. <BR /> <BR />We now have a review report from the Equality Commission that contains clear recommendations. The commission's findings echo Professor Duncan Morrow's 2013 report, which gathered dust while the old guard clung to control. The implementation of his recommendations was never completed. Many were simply ignored. Today, that ignorance ends. <BR /> <BR />I will take the opportunity to outline some of the recommendations and the next steps that I will take. First, the report recommends that there be transparent pathways, published standards and selection processes. That guidance must be clearly communicated and will be based on objective measures and the principle of merit.”
“It has played an important role and done much for community relations in many working-class communities. We have proudly produced several world champions, who have used their platform to demonstrate that neither religion nor background has to play a role in determining success. <BR /> <BR />I recently had the privilege of visiting Monkstown Boxing Club as it marked the return of 10 young people who had taken part in a leadership exchange programme in South Africa. I was fascinated to learn about the impact of their visit on the communities that hosted them and the impact on the young people themselves. Monkstown is also Daryl Clarke's home club, where he is now project coordinator. I thank him for standing up for himself and for many others like him. It was not the easiest thing to do, which would have been to do nothing.”
“First, it is my view that Daryl Clarke was discriminated against because he is a Protestant. Secondly, many of the recommendations of Professor Duncan Morrow's 2013 independent working group on boxing have not been completed or fully implemented. Thirdly, the recommendations made by the Equality Commission must be implemented in order to restore confidence and ensure that Ulster Boxing's practices, as well as those of IABA, not only are fair but are seen to be fair. The status quo cannot continue. No one should have to think that they will not be able to progress in boxing or any other sport based on their religion or community background. Sport is too important for that; we know how it can change lives. Through some of Northern Ireland's darkest days, boxing was a sport that broke through divides and brought people together.”
“My statement is about the outcome of the recent Equality Commission review of the Ulster Boxing Council (UBC). Members will be aware that Daryl Clarke took a case against the Ulster Boxing Council, alleging discrimination on religious grounds, when he was not selected to represent Northern Ireland at the 2022 Commonwealth Games. While the case was settled without admission of liability, part of the settlement was that the Irish Athletic Boxing Association (IABA) and the Ulster Boxing Council would commit to a comprehensive review, by the Equality Commission, of the governance, practices and procedures that are applicable to them in order to ensure that they comply with the Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order 1998 and any relevant codes of practice. <BR /> <BR />A number of details are now clear to me.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I tried to get my statement out to Members as quickly as possible, but the timings moved forward. I believe that it was sent out at only around 12.30 pm. I would be more than happy to postpone the statement until after Question Time, if that is what the House wishes.”
“First, there is a housing crisis, and we are bringing through a number of policies to try to help deal with that. That is why it is so important that we have policies in place that work for HMOs, and the Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council could put in place a policy that works for it, taking into consideration all the necessary factors that need to be considered before the granting of a HMO licence. The need for workers and the economic benefit that those workers might bring is something that could feed into that process, but it has to be balanced against the rights of local residents and the residential nature of the area that may be changed. Again, that is why we need to have a consistency of approach in the policies that are in place, whilst ensuring that they can be adapted for local areas.”
“Mr Speaker, I will come to it if the Member gives me the opportunity to speak; I am more than happy to do so. This is about making sure that we enforce the standards that are there. It is about making sure that HMOs only get a licence if they meet the criteria. For those who are breaking the law, operating illegally, operating without planning permission or operating beyond their licences, there are penalties, and I have put them in the letter to the councils. Fines of between £5,000 and £20,000 can be issued for the 21 offences in the HMO legislation that are punishable by fixed penalty notices. It is all in there. <BR /> <BR />On the right-to-rent scheme, I say this again: I do not understand why people would have an issue with making sure that someone who wants to rent a property in Northern Ireland has a legal right to live here.”
“He really likes what I am saying, but that is a problem for him because he does not like to agree with what I am saying. He wants me to crack down on rogue landlords, but not in this way. It looks as if he is just looking for something to disagree with or argue about. I make no apology whatsoever: people should adhere to —.”
“My goodness, the Member is some craic, is he not?”
“It is up to councils to take those issues into consideration and to determine their policies, but a planning committee, in looking at the issues, would take such factors into consideration when making a determination. Regardless of that, if fresh applications are made, it will be up to councils to consider any pertinent factors.”
“I am not sure whether she would welcome it, but I am more than happy to do so. I have not had that direct engagement, but my Department and the Housing Executive often meet interested groups. It is absolutely about dealing with those who are intent on breaking the law. Responsibility lies with the landlords, not with those whom they may try to exploit.”
“The enforcement of HMO legislation is funded from HMO licence fees and income that is generated through fixed penalty notices and fines. The licence fee is kept under review by the Department and has been uplifted in regulations to allow the scheme to continue to operate on a cost-neutral basis, with no additional cost to ratepayers. <BR /> <BR />I assure the Member that it does not concern me one bit if people want to question me, my integrity or even my faith. I am more than happy for people to make those comments. As I have said, I will have those conversations with anyone, and I am happy to discuss the matter further.”
“The number and over-proliferation of HMOs are increasingly a concern for communities across Northern Ireland. It comes back to councils, which have the power to limit or cap the percentage of HMOs in an area, even down to the level of streets. Planning permission, which takes into account issues such as parking, water and waste, must be sought for new HMOs. Those are the ways in which we can prevent further HMOs being approved.”
“I am grateful to the Member for his question. I am happy to confirm that 77 fixed penalty notices have been issued and paid. The fines totalled £343,800, which helps us to fund the HMO unit that operates in Belfast City Council. There have also been two successful prosecutions for the operation of unlicensed HMOs and one such prosecution for exceeding the licensed occupancy.”
“The right-to-rent scheme is a UK Government scheme that requires landlords and letting agents in England to check that tenants have the legal right to live in the UK before renting a property. To comply with that, landlords must verify a tenant's immigration status and right to reside by checking original documents before the tenancy begins. The scheme applies to all properties in England but not in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. That is why I have written to the Secretary of State and the Home Secretary to ask that they extend the provisions to Northern Ireland. I have not had a response from either the Home Office or the Northern Ireland Office.”
“I have power over policy and legislation relating to the issue. Largely, the issue of HMOs lies with councils, particularly the HMO unit at Belfast City Council. If we get to the stage where councils are not using the powers or where additional powers are required under legislation, that can be looked at.”
“It is entirely reasonable and proportionate that we set out what the law says and what we will do to enforce it. A lot of people here seem to have a problem with that today.”
“Yes, that is absolutely the case. Time and time again, working-class communities bear the brunt of many of those issues. I am a little bit frustrated with the approach of some people in the House today, because I am making a very reasonable statement. It sets out the fact that people should adhere to the law and that policies should be in place to ensure a consistent approach across Northern Ireland to determining whether or not an HMO should be in place. Those who cause issues, break the law or do not adhere to the terms of their licence should be dealt with, because there are real-life implications. Sometimes those implications are for the people who live in the HMOs, and, sometimes the implications are for the people who live around the HMOs.”
“The statement is not anti-immigrant; it is anti the landlords who are willing to take advantage of those people. It is not about those who are housed in HMOs. The responsibility lies with those who often take advantage of people and do what they should not do. I do not make any apology for wanting to make sure that the law is upheld and that those who are in breach of the law are dealt with. It is right that we take that approach and highlight the powers that are available. <BR /> <BR />On her other comment, it is right that we are seen to uphold the law. That is also a Christian principle. I am more than happy to have a further conversation with her about that, if she wants, and talk through some of the theology on it.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I said, in part, in answer to a previous question, it is important that we highlight the powers and sanctions that are available, the fact that we take the issue seriously and the fact that we do not think that landlords should break the law. It is important that we say that it is right that things are done legally and to the required standards, and it is important that, if people think that they can step outside what is required of them under the law, there is sufficient punishment for them.”
“I need to be clear with the House that all HMO properties are subject to a physical inspection as part of the application process for a licence to ensure that the property meets the required standards of space, safety and facilities for the number of occupants. Inspections are also carried out when a licence renewal application is made and in the case of any reports of a breach of a licence. Those reports need to be made, however, as councils and the HMO unit can take action only if we have the reports. I encourage people, if they have concerns — I know that there are concerns — to contact their local authority.”
“I am happy to repeat, for the Member's benefit, that there is an inconsistency in approach, especially to local development plans (LDPs). Some councils have those plans in place and some do not. It would be appropriate for councils to be very clear in those plans about what is acceptable for HMOs and what additional measures need to be in place for HMOs to get the necessary approval and consent. That is where I see an inconsistency in approach.”