Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“I am aware that I am sitting beside and in front of Linfield fans, so maybe I should leave it there.”
“The Member is absolutely right to highlight the subregional stadia fund, and all of us in the House know how important that is. I have been asked a lot of questions about it, and I can inform the Member that significant work has been carried out in the two months since I came into office. I am pleased to report that I will soon be in a position to make further announcements on that. Of course, in order to stay in the Speaker's good graces, any announcements will be made to the House first. That will impact on performance clubs as well as grassroots football and the national training centre. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that everyone in the House will allow me to take the opportunity to congratulate Larne Football Club in getting one step closer to the league championship.”
“My officials are working closely with the Irish FA to take forward the development of a national training centre. National training centres are common in other jurisdictions, and the Irish FA considers a national training centre to be a crucial component of its future strategy to develop football locally. It is expected that the Department will make a small contribution to the funding for the development of a national training centre from the current subregional budget of £36·2 million, with the remainder of the funds provided by the Irish FA. A steering group has been established to assist the Irish FA in the development of a robust business case and to help secure a suitable site to locate a national training centre.”
“I thank the Chair of the Committee for his contribution to the debate. I understand the concerns that have been raised about the LCM. It is not something that we would seek to do, but, as he and I have outlined, it is appropriate on this occasion. I am grateful for the support of the Committee for Communities on the matter, and I commend the motion to the Assembly.”
“I am very aware of the importance of the Assembly's role in considering legislation and, in particular, the value of the Committee's scrutiny role.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst, where possible, I seek to avoid using the legislative consent motion process, it seems sensible in this instance to secure the Bill's benefits for scheme members here by agreeing to a legislative consent motion in respect of the Bill.”
“If it is agreed that clause 1 should extend here, that will allow those important provisions to be enacted across all jurisdictions at the same time. If it is not agreed that the Bill's provisions should extend here, it will be necessary to table a separate Assembly Bill to amend the definition for Northern Ireland. However, that would mean that people in Northern Ireland would not benefit from the extension of the definition at the same time as people in GB. The intention is that the Bill should be enacted as soon as possible. It would therefore be beneficial, timewise, to agree that the relevant provisions in the Bill extend here.”
“That means that the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme make payments where medical evidence shows that a member has a life expectancy of up to six months. The eligibility criteria were set in line with the social security — special rules for end of life — provisions for certain benefits that were originally introduced in 1990. The eligibility rule for those benefits in Great Britain was extended to 12 months by the Social Security (Special Rules for End of Life) Act 2022. <BR /> <BR />The changes in the Bill restore the original policy intent that there be alignment between the two sets of measures. The proposed changes will bring more terminally ill people within the scope of the terminally ill payments made by the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Pension Protection Fund pays compensation to members of eligible defined benefit pension schemes in cases in which the sponsoring employer became insolvent on or after 6 April 2005 and the scheme has insufficient assets to secure its pension liabilities at least to the level of compensation that will be payable by the Pension Protection Fund. The financial assistance scheme, at its inception, applied to schemes that started to wind up between 1 January 1997 and 5 April 2005. Since then, its coverage and the amount of assistance that it pays have been reviewed and extended. The financial assistance scheme makes payments to members of qualifying schemes that are unable to secure their pension liabilities in full. <BR /> <BR />"Terminal illness" is currently defined in legislation as being where a person's death:”
“The Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill was introduced in the House of Commons on 6 December 2023. Clause 1, which relates to the definition of terminal illness, makes provision for devolved matters and requires a legislative consent motion (LCM). <BR /> <BR />The Bill extends the definition of terminal illness in respect of the Pension Protection Fund (PPF) and the financial assistance scheme. Clause 1 makes changes to the Pensions (Northern Ireland) Order 2005 and the Pensions (No. 2) Act (Northern Ireland) 2008 to amend the definition of "terminally ill" from six months to 12 months. Although pensions are a devolved matter, in general pensions policy and legislation here operate in line with corresponding pension provision in England, Scotland and Wales, in line with section 87 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.”
“I encourage Members to vote for the amendment, but my powers of persuasion may have reached an end.”
“I will press for a positive way forward for the future of the Housing Executive as well, because it is incredibly important. I look forward to seeing thousands more affordable homes being built and lived in over the next three years.”
“In response to what Sinéad McLaughlin said earlier, when I say that — I have said it a number of times over the last couple of days — it is not to kick the can down the road or pass it on to someone else; rather, it is because, if we want to see real progress in these areas, we will need cross-departmental working and Executive support. Therefore, I will seek the Executive's endorsement of the housing supply strategy. <BR /> <BR />I will continue to prioritise building more social homes. Most of the capital budget of the Department goes on social homes, and that will continue, because we need to ensure that supply meets demand. Of course, we also need to address other issues, like water in particular, that prevent us from doing more.”
“That will not prevent me from looking at phase 2 of the future work that we might be able to do in this area. I hope that Members will understand that, regardless of what way the votes go today. <BR /> <BR />I make it clear to the Assembly that I recognise the concerns around housing pressures, especially as they affect private renters, who are most exposed to those pressures, but I am committed to addressing the issues before it becomes as deep a crisis as we see elsewhere in the UK or Ireland. I acknowledge the concern around growing pressures in the private rented sector. I have set out some of the work being taken forward by the Department to help people. However, addressing housing issues will require commitment from across the Executive.”
“What I am trying to address is better for the safety and security of tenants than what happens there. Needless to say, with all that complexity and scope for confusion, Scotland is continually having to review and amend its law due to its unintended consequences. For example, the new approach is considered to have greatly reduced the willingness of landlords to let to students in Scotland. <BR /> <BR />I support the amendment. It retains the approach to security of tenure that the previous Assembly chose only two years ago. Even at this last moment, I urge Members to support that, but I get the sense of the House, and I acknowledge that that will not be the case. I highlight the fact that I am under a duty to continue the work that I was mandated in law to do by the Assembly.”
“Ending no-fault evictions is complex. It would involve an entirely new approach and require a fundamental review of how our private tenancy system works. Scotland and some of the difficulties that have existed there were mentioned. In Scotland, there are 18 different reasons why a tenant can be asked to leave a private rental. It is hard to read that long and comprehensive list and imagine that it brings much added security. Each ground has detailed guidance setting out evidence thresholds and so on. There is a tribunal to oversee the process as well. Of course, the length of notice is different, depending on the grounds. It is only 28 days for six of the grounds and never more than three months. It does not matter how long the house has been the tenant's home.”
“That work is not complete. I have set out that it is complex and has taken longer than expected. It would be odd for me to divert my officials from that work, which I am under a statutory duty to do, in order to proceed down the different route that the Assembly wants me to take today. I am not saying that I am opposed to that; in fact, I have said that, under phase 2, we are looking at the further measures that can be taken, but I have a duty in law to progress these matters further.”
“I am happy to support the amendment that my colleagues submitted. Many Members who are calling for change voted only two years ago for the legislation, which would make notices to quit much longer than before, including up to seven months for the longest tenancies. The Assembly also placed a duty in primary legislation on the Department to do the work to bring those into place. I have a legal duty to consider the exemptions to the longer notices for things such as antisocial behaviour and to put suitable regulations in place, which would then trigger the longer notices.”
“However, it is, obviously, important that we fully consider equality implications, such as where tenant behaviour that others might see as disruptive is linked to domestic violence. My officials are developing a robust equality impact assessment in order to inform the drafting of those regulations, with consultation planned for the coming months. <BR /> <BR />My future consideration for phase 2 of the reform programme will be focused on what further measures I can take to improve the safety, security and quality of the sector. My officials have already started to engage with key stakeholders, and they will review what is happening in other jurisdictions in order to inform that work. That is really the only area of controversy in the motion and where there is a bit of division in the House today.”
“The Act places a duty on me to put those measures in place. I am fully committed to fulfilling my duty to the Assembly. I recognise that those changes will improve security of tenure for individuals and families in the private rented sector. <BR /> <BR />My officials are drafting regulations on exceptions to those notice periods in legislation in order to ensure that our action is compliant with the Human Rights Act 1998. The Private Tenancies Act included a deadline of 27 April 2024 for that work, but engagement with stakeholders has shown that that is not realistic. I apologise to the Assembly for that delay and for missing the deadline that the Assembly set for my Department.”
“The best ways of relieving pressure on affordability for renters are to increase housing supply and ensure that the benefits system properly considers the cost of housing. I am relieved that the local housing allowance rates have been unfrozen and increased from this month. Some of those rates have increased by over 40%. That will go some way to helping many renters pay their rent and relieve the pressure on their household budgets. <BR /> <BR />Landlords here do not have to specify a reason for eviction. Security of tenure is a major concern for tenants. I am already taking forward work under phase 1 of my Department's reform of the private rented sector to introduce much longer notice to quit periods. The Assembly mandated that action in the Private Tenancies Act (Northern Ireland) 2022.”
“It is worth noting that the ONS considers housing to be affordable if a household spends 30% or less of its income on rental costs. While Northern Ireland is one of the most affordable regions, we must be upfront about the fact that rents have increased significantly over the past three years and have done so more sharply here than elsewhere. My Department's research in 2021 found that there may be 38,000 households paying more than 30% of their income in rent, of which more than 22,000 are paying over 40%. By any measure, that is unaffordable. Those households are the ones that have been really struggling and the most impacted by the freeze at 2020 levels of local housing allowance.”
“I am looking forward to working with Executive colleagues to make sure that it is a priority across the Executive. <BR /> <BR />Last week, we heard from many Members about how infrastructure constraints and water connections in particular continue to frustrate our attempts to deliver more homes. The issue needs to be sorted out. It is stopping thousands of houses being built and adding tens of thousands of pounds to the price of houses. We have an opportunity to act now, and we must. I am absolutely determined about that. We need to work together to make sure that we do not slide into the sort of crisis that exists in other places in the UK and in Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The motion states the findings of the 2023 report by the Office for National Statistics on private rental affordability.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I start by declaring no interest. I am not a landlord. I would like to make that very clear. I thank those who contributed, and I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. There is much in it that I support and much that I am taking forward already to deal with some of the issues. I recognise the concerns that the proposer and others raised. I am very concerned about the high demand for social housing, increasing waiting lists and pressure on the homelessness system. Alongside that, there is increasing pressure on our private rented sector, where supply is reducing and costs are increasing. As Minister for housing, I am already on record saying that housing is a priority for me and that the challenges that I have set out cannot be addressed by my Department alone.”
“I have to take exception to that point, because I have been in the Chamber a number of times over the last couple of days and given examples of how we have worked collaboratively on the defective premises legislation, for example. There has been very good working together between Departments already on this, which is a priority. The Member has outlined a lot of things that, she thinks, I should do, but I have just highlighted in my speech exactly what I will do. I do not think that there have been any examples, since the Executive have been up and running, of how we have not been working together; in fact, the collaboration has been very good, and it will make a difference.”
“A warm home is a happy and healthy home, so we must ensure that everyone can afford to heat and power their home to an adequate degree at a reasonable cost. I look forward to playing my part in that, and I hope that I will have the support of other Members here in doing so.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to be clear that I recognise how important fuel poverty is in tackling the wider issue of poverty and that, as a Department and an Executive, we are committed to making real and tangible progress in this area. That will require substantial cross-departmental work and collaboration, but I want to be clear that that is something that I am up for. We do not have an easy task ahead of us: it will require a lot of work and the right resources being in place. Although there are significant challenges that come with this, there are substantial opportunities as well for the people whom we serve and represent. <BR /> <BR />This is about people, their lives and their well-being.”
“Many new energy and residential policies are being brought forward across government, and I want to take a collaborative approach with my ministerial colleagues to work towards meeting net zero while protecting the fuel-poor. <BR /> <BR />I will not oppose the motion. There are many things in it that are good and useful for us to be aware of. We should highlight how serious the issue is. I recognise that the fuel poverty strategy is out of date. I have been clear about what we are doing and how we will bring forward a new strategy. I have made comments about the fuel poverty task force, and there will certainly be lots of debate on some of the other issues that Members have listed in the motion.”
“Through a fuel poverty reference panel, we have been working closely with academics, colleagues across government and the community and voluntary sector to inform and advise on the new fuel poverty strategy. That collaboration will be key to its successful implementation. <BR /> <BR />I have also established a cross-departmental project board to oversee the strategy development. It is for that reason that I believe a fuel poverty task force is not necessary; in fact, it would be a step backwards as we continue to develop the strategy. My officials are carrying out pre-consultation stakeholder engagement from now until June for the strategy and the new affordable warmth scheme. Those engagement events will continue to take place across Northern Ireland, and I encourage all who are interested to get involved.”
“During the debate, there have been calls to introduce a cap on energy prices, system price protections for home heating oil customers and proposals for social tariffs to protect the most vulnerable. As I have said, fuel poverty is not a simple issue and the solutions are neither simple nor solely within my remit. I am pleased that that was acknowledged by a number of Members in their contributions. Those actions demonstrate that the responsibility lies with the Economy Minister. That is not to pass responsibility on to somebody else but to highlight the genuinely collaborative approach that we need as an Executive to develop long-term sustainable solutions to fuel poverty. My officials have been working collaboratively with those who understand the issues and can help to address them.”
“Making homes more energy efficient and easier to heat, with a particular focus on those who are more at risk, will have a positive impact on both mental and physical health, and will deliver benefits for public health and reduce inequality across our community. <BR /> <BR />I want to ensure that the transformational change is a just transition as required by the Climate Change Act, but, again, it is really important that the most vulnerable are protected and that no one is left behind. That is critical to my work as Minister. Alongside the challenges of decarbonisation, we must ensure that the fuel poor are not excluded and that they benefit from real opportunities to create warmer and healthier homes.”
“As Communities Minister, I am leading the residential element of the building sector and will drive a step change in what we are doing to reduce carbon emissions in the sector. Fuel combustion in households makes up 95% of emissions from the residential sector. Therefore, a key challenge will be switching to non-fossil-fuel-based systems, mainly air and ground source heat pumps. However, let me make it clear: we need to do that in a way that is not too expensive and does not increase fuel poverty. <BR /> <BR />We need to significantly increase the energy efficiency of homes across all tenures — social, private rented and owner-occupied — but we need to do that carefully to avoid cold bridging, condensation, damp and mould. Importantly, we need to enhance the capacity and skills in our construction sector in order to deliver that.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department's Make the Call service continues to support individuals and families who, otherwise, may miss out on the benefits that they are entitled to. The Northern Ireland Housing Executive offers support with energy efficiency advice that is targeted actively at vulnerable households and those who will benefit most from energy efficiency-related advice. As the one-stop shop for energy advice across Northern Ireland, it offers information to help with energy efficiency, grants, signposting, renewable energy and energy saving and advice on how to switch energy suppliers, on debt, on fuel poverty and on how to benefit from oil-buying savings across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />We will all be aware of the transformation required across government by the targets in the Climate Change Act to transition to net zero by 2050.”
“<BR /> <BR />A key principle of the fuel poverty strategy will be long-term sustainable support that tackles the root causes of fuel poverty. However, I recognise that, at times, people experience financial crises and need short-term financial support. For those in need of immediate support, additional financial support is available through the discretionary support service. That is unique to Northern Ireland and is there to provide support to people in financial need and those who require short-term assistance in crisis or emergency situations. In addition, the winter fuel payment is a tax-free and non-means-tested benefit introduced specifically to help older people with their winter fuel bills, and is payable to customers who meet the eligibility criteria, regardless of whether they are receiving a social security benefit.”
“That application-based scheme provides low-income households with a range of heating and insulation measures to improve the thermal efficiency of their home. I am also in the early stages of developing a new fuel poverty intervention to replace the affordable warmth scheme when it comes to an end in March 2026. That fuel poverty intervention will ensure that people who are living in owner-occupied or privately rented homes and experiencing fuel poverty will receive vital energy efficiency work. My ambition is for it to be a more comprehensive and ambitious scheme that supports the principles of the new fuel poverty strategy and helps to decarbonise homes. To that end, my officials are exploring the option of low-carbon heating solutions and will consider the eligibility criteria and income thresholds in the development of the new scheme.”
“It is a useful opportunity to consider a cross-government approach to defining whom we target for support and to agree common principles that can be applied for all kinds of home energy support to ensure that, collectively, we reach the right people. <BR /> <BR />We want to better understand the problem of fuel poverty. That means not only its definition, which, as we all know, differs across each part of the UK and Ireland, but its impacts. I want to improve our measurement of fuel poverty so that we can be more responsive to those who need help. <BR /> <BR />My Department continues to deliver the affordable warmth scheme for owner-occupiers and those in the private rented sector most at risk of fuel poverty.”
“Work is well under way on the preparation of a new fuel poverty strategy that will set out a long-term, strategic approach to reducing fuel poverty. It will focus on addressing the root causes of fuel poverty rather than measures such as one-off cash payments to alleviate its short-term symptoms. We have to move beyond that and deal with it at the root. <BR /> <BR />The strategy will contain some key themes, including how government supports those living in or at risk of fuel poverty; improved collaboration to target the hard-to-reach and make the best use of our resources; improve health outcomes; and provide consumer protection through the energy transition.”
“Cold and damp homes are linked to worsening respiratory conditions, cardiovascular diseases, poor mental health, dementia and hypothermia. That is particularly concerning for vulnerable people or those with existing health conditions. For children, living in a fuel-poor home is associated with a significantly greater risk of health problems, and it can also impact upon their educational attainment. <BR /> <BR />As many Members highlighted, a household is considered to be in fuel poverty if it must spend more than 10% of its household income on fuel use. However, as has also been said this afternoon, that does not recognise the complexity of fuel poverty. Fuel poverty depends on the interaction and relationship between three key drivers: income, energy use and energy price.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I said many times today and yesterday, addressing poverty, in all its forms, is a key priory for me. Fuel poverty is one of the many elements of poverty, and it needs to be taken seriously not just in my Department but right across the Executive. To that end, I am pleased to inform the House that I have tasked my officials to urgently take forward work on developing a new fuel poverty strategy, with a view to presenting that to the Executive before the end of this financial year. <BR /> <BR />Our most recent modelling suggests that, in 2022, more than a quarter — 27% — of households here were living in fuel poverty. As all Members recognised, that figure is unacceptably high. The impacts of fuel poverty can be felt right across our society. Living in a cold home presents hazards and health risks for people of all ages.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the leader of the Opposition for bringing the motion to the House today and the Member who moved it. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the issue. <BR /> <BR />One of my first engagements as Communities Minister was to visit the home of someone who had seen significant improvements in the quality of that home. I saw the impact that that had on her and her family. I completely agree with the points made this afternoon about how intolerable it is that anybody should die in Northern Ireland due to a cold home. I am grateful that the proposer highlighted the fact that 290 people in Northern Ireland die each winter due to cold homes. That is a stark and horrifying statistic in many ways. I hope that that focuses our minds on the issue and on the need to address it.”
“I hope that Members can see what we are trying to do through the amendment. It is realistic, and I give the personal commitment that I will do everything that I can to address child poverty.”
“If we did not have the voluntary and community sector in Northern Ireland, we would find ourselves in a horrendous situation. It holds so much together, and it has really borne the brunt of some of the spending constraints that have been in place in recent years, so I completely acknowledge and accept what the Member said. That ongoing support is vital, and if that support were to be taken away, it would put incredible strain on our public services. I join her in paying tribute to the sector.”
“All of that contributes to the outcomes that we want to see, and that is what I am committed to doing. He told me to get on with the job: I assure him that that is exactly what I am doing, as I want to see the wider issue of child poverty sorted out. We need to address it. Doing that will take many different forms, and I look forward to making sure that we deliver. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr McGrath mentioned the importance of childcare: that is a priority for the Executive. That we are not making announcements about it in the Chamber does not mean that the work is not ongoing. Paul Givan has taken on the issue from day 1. It has been a constant theme around the Executive table, and I look forward to progress being made. <BR /> <BR />Mr McGrath also made the point that tackling poverty is not simply about any one issue. Yes, the two-child limit is important, but this is about getting people into work; getting people better-paid jobs; making sure that people have appropriate childcare so that they can work; making sure that we address health inequalities; and making sure that people have warm homes in which to live.”
“If we are to put additional resources into tackling poverty, I want to make sure that we spend them on people and not on IT systems, where possible. To be fair to the Opposition, however, I think that they realise that there does not need to be complete abolition and that, rather, mitigation is possible. I accept that. <BR /> <BR />I wish Robbie Butler a very happy birthday. I am glad that his mother still calls him on his birthday. I hope that he calls his mother as well and not just on his birthday. I recognise the points that he made about the impact that the policy has on larger families in particular. Other Members made similar points. We do not want to find ourselves in the position in which children are penalised simply because their parents have more children. Kellie Armstrong referred to that issue as well.”
“I want to work with Executive colleagues to agree an anti-poverty strategy that is sustainable and deliverable, and the issues raised will form part of that. <BR /> <BR />I will comment on some of the speeches that we have heard today. I completely agree with what the Chairman of the Committee for Communities said about the impact of the policy. He was realistic about finding a way for us to offset sustainably the impact of the two-child limit. I also welcome the comments from Sian Mulholland in that regard. She took a sensible approach by recognising that it is not just about the cost of the mitigations but about the cost of the IT systems and the infrastructure. That is why it is important that we consider all the recommendations in the round.”
“I want to look at all the interventions and at how we can use the resources that we have to make sure that we tackle the issues that cause the greatest distress and hardship and contribute to poverty. Of course child poverty is a problem. I am wholly committed to playing my part in alleviating that, but I cannot support the motion as framed to remove the two-child policy by the end of this year. <BR /> <BR />Tackling poverty is, of course, a responsibility for the entire Executive. I know that I am going back over some of the points that were made in the debate yesterday, but it is worth repeating that we are working at pace on the development and implementation of an anti-poverty strategy. We are looking at how we, as an Executive, can best move that forward.”
“Certainly, his party leader complained about it on Twitter yesterday, and Mr McGrath has been particularly concerned about the rate rises in his area. <BR /> <BR />We cannot have it both ways. We cannot be opposed to regional rates or come to the House with four or five different ways in which that money could be spent and then ask for it to be spent on something else as well. I am trying to be up front and honest with Members by saying that yes, of course, I want to be in a position to remove the limit, but that I do not believe that we will be in a position to take it on ourselves, put in the legislative changes and pay for them. I want to look at that report in the round, however.”
“My understanding is that the Member is asking me to remove the two-child limit this year. If the motion does not mean that but means what, I think, he actually means, which is to bring forward a plan to remove it, I cannot commit definitely to do so, because of the costs that I have outlined. I appreciate that the Member is trying to be a bit more mature than most opposition parties may be. He has tried to give evidence of where the funding would come from. He used the example of the non-domestic vacant rating, which, I think, he has spoken about before. We know how much that has brought in in the past: it alone would not cover the cost, and nor would the regional rate increase, which, I think, the Member's party was against.”
“Although the amendment asks me to bring it forward before the end of the financial year, I believe that I will be in a position to bring it before the end of the calendar year, if not sooner. I understand how important it is. My officials are currently —.”