Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“<BR /> <BR />This issue matters deeply to the people of Northern Ireland. For too long, there has been a sense that the system is not working for hard-working families and people who do the right thing, and that it is too easy for some to exploit while others who genuinely need help are left struggling. That erodes trust and undermines confidence, and it is not good enough. We must rebuild that trust. We must restore confidence in a welfare system that is fair, transparent and focused on those who need it most. That is the change that I am determined to deliver, and we should not rest until we get it right. I commend the statement to the House”
“We will ensure that our processes continue to be as effective as possible in delivering that accountability, including in the recovery of money from those who claim it under false pretences. My Department's debt management team already actively pursues repayment in those cases and will continue to focus resources on that important task. <BR /> <BR />There are some in society who will go to great lengths to avoid their obligations or to claim that to which they are not entitled. That should not be tolerated, and I will always be on the side of those who play by the rules. People work hard and pay taxes to ensure that the welfare safety net exists, and support should only go to those who are eligible and need it. Let me be crystal clear: I am on the same page as those hard-working taxpayers.”
“However, that is not enough. I want to shift the balance from downstream detection to upstream prevention. Therefore, I announce today that I am establishing a task and finish group within my Department to look critically at every intervention that we take and drill down on the high-risk areas. It is about working smarter to tackle this issue, including how we utilise the ongoing digital developments that are constantly evolving and maturing, and will, undoubtedly, support us in this work. <BR /> <BR />I am determined to use every tool to tackle this issue. Therefore I am also announcing a change in how we report fraud. My Department will reintroduce the practice of naming those who have been convicted of benefit fraud. Fraud is a crime, and those who commit it must be held accountable.”
“I have repeatedly bid for additional resources to support greater investment in benefit security activities. I will continue to make the case to Executive colleagues for that funding, but, in its absence, my officials have not been sitting on their hands. My Department's benefit security division works hand in glove with universal credit operations to secure insights and drive real-time learning on suspected fraud, and to target resources towards that. They utilise high-risk scans and the latest fraud detection techniques, which allow them to continuously improve how they target their efforts. They contact claimants directly to ensure that the evidence to support claims is still relevant and valid. My Department made 20,000 of those contacts last year and aims to undertake around 30,000 in the incoming financial year.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department receives approximately 10,000 fraud allegations per year and utilises around 25,000 high-risk scans, which help us point our resources to the emerging risks. All allegations are triaged before being routed to the appropriate team for investigation. That is an indication of how seriously we take this issue. My officials work closely with their counterparts in the Department for Work and Pensions on fraud, including on the early detection of fraud and the lessons that we can learn from it. Indeed, DWP has adopted some of our initiatives, which shows that we can be a leader on the issue. <BR /> <BR />Whilst my officials are working hard to detect and reduce the levels of fraud in the benefits system, there is more that I want to do.”
“Of course, this is not an issue that is unique to Northern Ireland. All jurisdictions are grappling with the same issues and concerns, but that does not mean that we are complacent or that we do not take action. To be clear, there is a substantial body of work under way in my Department to ensure that the right money goes to the right people at the right time. I have a team of trained and accredited fraud investigators whose role is to take referrals from front-line benefit delivery staff and the public, and to follow those allegations through to their natural conclusion. That can be painstaking and time-consuming, which can be frustrating for those who make referrals and want to see instant results.”
“Therefore, let me be unequivocal: I am taking a zero tolerance approach. I am personally committed to rooting out fraud and ensuring that those who exploit the system face the consequences.”
“When individuals cheat the system, they are not stealing from a faceless entity; they are taking from their neighbours, friends and fellow citizens. They are undermining the very safety net that so many rely on.”
“To that end, I recognise the excellent work that my staff across benefit delivery and benefit security have done over many years and continue to do to protect the integrity of the benefit system while responding to the needs of claimants and to ensure that millions of pounds in support reach those who are entitled to it every year. Their work changes lives, offering hope and stability to those facing hardship. <BR /> <BR />Let us be clear: the system is funded by the hard-earned taxes of working people across Northern Ireland. They rightly expect us to safeguard it and ensure that every penny goes only to those who are genuinely eligible. They trust us to uphold the principle of fairness. We must honour that trust. That is why welfare fraud is not just a financial issue but a moral one.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. Today, I will address a matter of critical importance: the integrity of our welfare system. That is crucial not only for those who are recipients of the support that it provides or those who one day may depend on it but for those who contribute to it through their taxes and, in doing so, ensure that those supports are available when needed. <BR /> <BR />At its core, our welfare system is a lifeline, a safety net designed to support those in our community who need it most. Whether it is helping someone through unemployment, supporting families on low incomes or providing for those unable to work due to disability or ill health, the system is a cornerstone of the fair and compassionate society that we strive to build.”
“The Member raised a number of issues, and I do not have time to respond to all of them. I assure him that notes are being taken, and we will respond directly to the issues that he has raised and provide clarity. If necessary, we will lay our response in the Assembly Library for other Members to take on board.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. I hope that she will promote the fund and its availability to her constituents, but I also hope that she sees the amount of work that the Department has done to try to raise the profile of the fund. We have used all the tools that are available to us. We have gone out to the advice sector, and we have made sure that it is on the websites and in the journal. I have read all of that out. I am happy to take further suggestions as to how we can do more, but it is certainly not the case that we have been sitting on our hands when it comes to promoting what is there.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that the Assembly notes my desire to make sure that we make things as easy as possible for people and provide the necessary help. I will not be found wanting when it comes to engaging with others and working with officials to make sure that we do everything in our power to help those in need.”
“<BR /> <BR />Given the package of support that is already available to alleviate any financial pressures caused by the five-week wait, there is, on balance, help available to meet the needs of claimants, based on their individual circumstances. I hope that no one will be in the position of having to wait for five weeks without receiving any support. I am content, however, to engage further and to consider additional measures or action that Members feel would be beneficial to bolstering the support that is already available or to publicising better the measures that are already in place. I have certainly noted the comments that Members around the Chamber have made today. If anyone has any further comments, we will, of course, take them on board.”
“The independent report on discretionary support made other recommendations regarding the contingency fund, and these will be considered as part of an overall review of discretionary support. However, any additional costs will have to be assessed in the current financial climate, taking into account other priorities across the Department and the requirement to ensure that budgets remain sustainable over the coming years. <BR /> <BR />The second amendment acknowledges the valuable support available under the two-week run-on and the advance payment facility. As I have noted, those measures provide crucial help to claimants while they wait for their first payment of universal credit. They are statutory provisions that apply to the whole of the UK, and I certainly support their retention.”
“On the changes proposed under the first amendment, Members will be aware that the independent report on welfare mitigations recommended that the universal credit contingency fund should be renamed to "universal credit new claims payment". That was one of several recommendations made in relation to providing additional financial support to those waiting on their first full UC payment and promoting the availability of such support. We have engaged with external stakeholders on that issue and invited further suggestions for a new name for the universal credit contingency fund. Plans to change the name are being taken forward. That involves changing notifications and information on nidirect and universal credit journal messages, and it is expected that the changes will have been rolled out by the end of the financial year.”
“To further assist with accessibility and ensure that the range of support available is clearly explained, the finance support campaign page on nidirect includes a specific page relating to the contingency fund. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, through the adviser discretion fund, my Department can provide a non-repayable grant of up to £1,500 to help a claimant with costs associated with entering employment — for example, having to pay upfront childcare costs or purchase clothing or equipment needed to begin work. Work is the greatest tool that we have to break the cycle of poverty and is the best route to financial independence. This helps benefit claimants get into work. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the amendments to the motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />People who, for any reason, are ineligible are considered for all other provisions available through the discretionary support scheme in order to maximise their potential to receive an award. The Department regularly promotes the contingency fund scheme and most recently ran an advertising campaign for claimants moving from legacy benefits to UC, which included signposting to the fund. A number of channels were used in the campaign to maximise its reach, including national and regional press as well as digital and social media. We also promote the scheme through the advice sector and highlight the contingency fund in universal credit migration notices. Posters were sent to the independent advice sector in spring/summer 2024 for its use in promoting the discretionary support scheme, including the contingency fund.”
“With that in mind, my Department increased the budget allocation for the contingency fund to over £6·1 million in 2024-25. Claimants are not required to take an advance payment of universal credit before accessing the contingency fund grant, and UC staff actively encourage new claimants to avail themselves of the grant as an alternative to the repayable advance payment. Some claimants may choose to avail themselves of both the contingency fund grant and the advance payment facility. Information on the contingency fund is featured prominently in the welcome message of the claimant's journal for those who have made a claim to universal credit, and that includes a link to the nidirect information page for the grant. Applications are available online and can be made 24/7.”
“However, outside the system itself, my Department does offer other assistance, including some measures that are specific to Northern Ireland that can help to alleviate hardship during the five-week waiting period. First, my Department administers the universal credit contingency fund, which is a non-repayable grant for families and individuals specifically aimed at alleviating financial difficulties while they wait for their first full payment of UC. It was paid to over 11,000 people during 2023-24, providing that necessary support during the waiting period. In total, we have awarded £3·5 million, with an average payment of £313. Overall, approximately 76% of applicants received a payment. <BR /> <BR />As demand for the contingency fund grant increases, so too does the cost.”
“It is paid automatically, and it does not need to be repaid. <BR /> <BR />New claimants can also apply for an advance of their first payment of universal credit, providing up to 100% of their potential UC entitlement to help ease the transition to the new benefit. This facility is offered to every person claiming UC for the first time as part of the transition from a legacy benefit. The advance payment is in the form of an interest-free loan and is usually repaid over 24 months. A UC advance is also available to claimants who were not previously in receipt of a legacy benefit, where they are experiencing financial difficulty. <BR /> <BR />Under the principle of parity, it is not possible for Northern Ireland to make changes to the UC system without absorbing the associated costs and administrative burdens.”
“However, the change to assessing entitlement monthly, as opposed to weekly or fortnightly, is a new experience for many. Therefore, I acknowledge and share the concerns raised about the five-week wait. I fully understand how any delay in payment can put additional pressure on individuals and families at what is already a difficult time. <BR /> <BR />Members will know that social security operates on the parity principle, and there are a number of UK-wide measures in place to tackle the impacts of the five-week wait. Claimants who are moved to UC from legacy benefits will be entitled to a two-week run-on. That means that they will continue to receive their payments of legacy benefits for two weeks after they move across to universal credit, which helps to alleviate the initial impact of moving to a monthly payment.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank all who contributed to the debate this morning. The implementation of universal credit has necessitated that claimants in receipt of the older legacy benefits move across to a new system, and that presents challenges. <BR /> <BR />I am committed to my Department doing what it can to help not only people migrating to universal credit but those who are claiming it for the first time. Universal credit is assessed and paid monthly. That means that new claimants must wait until the end of their first month before they receive their first payment. That is what leads to the five-week wait. The approach of paying benefit in arrears is a common feature of the social security system, including the legacy benefits.”
“Therefore, I commit to engaging with the Department for Work and Pensions to highlight those issues and urge it to give due consideration to improving support for that group in our society. I am also fully committed to working with other Departments here to review the adequacy of the support that is provided across government to unpaid carers and to advocate for a more coordinated approach to considering the needs of that group, who undertake such a valuable and dedicated role when looking after some of the most vulnerable people. Thank you.”
“A cross-departmental working group has been established, and DFC officials are engaging with senior officials across all Departments to identify key actions that will have a meaningful and lasting impact on socio-economic disadvantage in our society. I intend for the work to be taken forward at pace, with a paper being presented to the Executive in early 2025. <BR /> <BR />I have listened to concerns highlighted by those in the sector, such as Carers NI, the Carer Poverty Commission, and by the local political community, including those Members who have contributed to the debate today, about the adequacy of the support that is provided through the welfare system for unpaid carers. I have seen the strength of feelings that there are for changes and improvements to be made.”
“It will set out the Executive's commitment to a joined-up, long-term approach to address poverty while prioritising the issues that make a tangible difference to people's lives, including those of our young people. <BR /> <BR />While my Department is leading on the anti-poverty strategy, it remains an Executive strategy, and final decisions on the content and implementation will be subject to Executive agreement, but I am committed to working with all my Executive colleagues to ensure that it is taken forward in the most effective way possible. We need to take account of departmental budget allocations and develop a prioritised and deliverable strategy action plan.”
“My Department is already involved with the cross-departmental senior officials group for unpaid carers, which was established by the Department of Health and provides a forum for an integrated, cross-government approach to supporting unpaid carers. That group will identify opportunities for collaboration and develop a work plan to meet cross-departmental objectives. <BR /> <BR />I remain committed to developing effective and sustainable solutions to tackle poverty, in all its forms, for our communities right across Northern Ireland through the implementation of a robust anti-poverty strategy that will aim to address poverty and the impacts of socio-economic disadvantage.”
“However, I have heard what has been said in the Chamber today. I recognise as well the cross-party support that has been expressed for the move. However, ultimately, it will be for the Executive to decide on any future mitigation package and to consider the allocation of the additional funding that that might require. <BR /> <BR />Last month, I met representatives from Carers NI, and we discussed a number of issues that impact on carers, including carer poverty. We know that poverty is complex and multifaceted, and addressing its root causes is a key priority for me. Given the fact that responsibility for supporting carers is a cross-cutting matter, I agree that a better coordinated approach is needed across Departments, whether that is through the anti-poverty strategy or strategies that are specific to the needs of unpaid carers.”
“<BR /> <BR />Recommendations relating to additional support for carers in Northern Ireland were made in the independent advisory panel's report on the future of welfare mitigations, which was published in October 2022. Those measures include the introduction of carer recognition payments, which would be paid twice a year, similar to the carer's allowance supplement that is paid in Scotland. The latest estimated cost for a carer recognition payment is £90·18 million over a three-year period from 2025-26. That does not include administrative costs. Any future mitigation package, including further support for carers, will need to be assessed in the current financial climate, taking into account other priorities across my Department and the requirement to ensure that budgets remain sustainable over the coming years.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, carer's allowance is not the only financial support that is available to unpaid carers. Depending on individual circumstances, a carer may be eligible for a range of help through the welfare system. Those carers who are on a low income may be able to access additional financial support through income-related benefits, such as UC. Those benefits also include extra premiums and elements for caring. It is also important that unpaid carers be aware of my Department's Make the Call service, which can carry out an entitlement check to ensure that people are accessing all the benefits, supports and services that are available to them. I ask that Members be aware of that service and use it, because we have been able to leverage tens of millions of pounds in additional support for people across Northern Ireland through it.”
“As was mentioned, the Government announced in the recent Budget that, from April, the weekly earnings limit for carer's allowance will be linked to a formula that is equivalent to 16 times the rate of the national living wage. That means that, from April, the weekly earnings threshold will increase from £151 to £196. It is the largest increase in the earnings limit since the benefit was introduced in 1976. It will enable carers to earn more money from paid work while remaining eligible for the benefit. I confirm that my Department will shortly introduce legislation to ensure that carers in Northern Ireland benefit from that important change to carer's allowance. It is estimated that around 2,500 more carers will be able to access carer's allowance by 2029-2030 as a result of that change.”
“That legislative framework, combined with the statement of funding policy, means that we are fully funded by the UK Government for benefit costs, as long as parity is maintained. Any deviation that involves additional expenditure needs to be met out of the Northern Ireland block grant and must compete with other Executive priorities. <BR /> <BR />Carer's allowance has one of the most complex interactions with other benefits in the social security system. Any decision to diverge from parity could have significant financial and other administrative implications. I assure Members, however, that I recognise the challenges that many unpaid carers face, such as balancing employment with caring responsibilities.”
“<BR /> <BR />Since taking up my ministerial post 12 months ago, I have received a high volume of correspondence and responded to Assembly questions for oral and written answer about carer issues and about the carer's allowance being reformed. I have heard many calls for the eligibility criteria and the main rules for receiving the benefit to be reviewed, as well as requests for the weekly rate to be increased significantly or for top-up payments to be provided. It is therefore important that I highlight the parameters within which the social security system here operates. We are aware of the legislative framework, which places a duty on the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and me to seek to maintain a single system of social security between the two jurisdictions.”
“Support for that group is a matter that cuts across the remit of many Departments. My Department has responsibility for carer's allowance, the principal benefit in the social security system that is targeted at unpaid carers. We all know what the primary purpose of carer's allowance is: to provide a measure of financial support for people who give up the opportunity of full-time employment in order to provide regular and substantial care of at least 35 hours a week to a severely disabled person who is in receipt of certain disability benefits. It is not and was never intended to be a carer's wage, nor is it a payment for the services of caring. How could it be? It does not come close.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Member for West Belfast Mr Carroll for tabling the motion and all the Members who have contributed to the debate. I was going to say a number of things in response, but many Members, from across the House, have already said them. We are, I think, united in this place this evening in recognising the value, effort and sacrifices of carers right across Northern Ireland. I add my tributes to those who play such a vital role in our local community. They give so much to others, and I sincerely thank them for the enormous contribution that they make to those who live with severe health conditions and disabilities. <BR /> <BR />It is evident that there are many root causes of the challenges that unpaid carers face.”
“I have raised that issue frequently with the now former Minister for Infrastructure at the Executive table and in correspondence and meetings with him. If we are serious about housebuilding in Northern Ireland and ensuring that we have the homes that people need, we need to address the waste water infrastructure issues. That means that we need to look at alternative solutions, because simply doing what we have always done will not cut it. It will not build the homes that we need.”
“That is under review. I look forward to making a further announcement on it soon.”
“We want to make sure that we have a clear plan for that. I will be bringing forward a wider disability strategy, which will mean that we have in place the support to ensure that the public sector and others know the actions that are required of them, so that those with a disability are fully included in our society and safe.”
“That is an area of concern. The Member will be aware of the work that my Department has carried out on the overall safety of high-rise buildings and, specifically, with regard to making sure that those with a disability have access. If there are particular issues that he wants me to address, I will be happy to do that.”
“We live in times of unprecedented housing stress. That means that we must do things differently. The Housing Executive has a task and finish working group, which has started to curb the trend of spend on temporary accommodation. However, we need to do much more. For that reason, I will be making a significant announcement in the coming weeks, which will see us make more provision for temporary accommodation and significantly reduce the long-term cost.”
“For each of the past five years, the total non-COVID expenditure on temporary accommodation was £12·6 million, £13·7 million, £14·8 million, £26·4 million and £33·2 million. The provisional cost for 2024-25 is £35·4 million.”
“I certainly hope that any information that is required is passed on. If it is not, I will always make sure that it is. Let me make one thing very clear: there should be no role whatsoever for paramilitaries in any housing issue. If there is, it should absolutely come to an end. Housing should be allocated based on need and in accordance with the housing selection scheme.”
“The Member will know that we have been working on that issue lately. I do not know whether the Member is referring to financial support. I can certainly provide that information. Through the Housing Executive and housing associations, there are a number of programmes in place to deal with that. I can get him the specific information that I do not have at hand right now.”
“I completely agree with the Member. Following a meeting with Sport NI and officials from the sports branch in my Department, I have made clear the urgent need to progress that work and make sure that the report's recommendations are implemented. I am also considering what implications that may have for current and future funding arrangements. Sporting bodies should only receive taxpayers' money if they meet their equality obligations.”
“It is important that that work is carried out by the Equality Commission urgently, because no matter who you are or where you are from, you should be able to progress in your sport if you have the talent and ability. No one should feel as though they do not belong.”
“My thoughts are with John's family and friends and all those in the boxing world who knew and loved him. It was a tragic event. I commend the medical team at the Ulster Hall and all staff at the Royal Victoria Hospital for their work. <BR /> <BR />I thank Mr Brett for raising this issue. I noted with interest the recent case that was settled between Daryl Clarke and the Ulster Boxing Council. I record the fact that I know Daryl in a personal capacity. I have heard his story. As part of the settlement agreement, the Ulster Boxing Council committed to a comprehensive review by the Equality Commission of the governance, practices and procedures applicable to it to ensure that they comply with the Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order 1998 and any relevant codes of practice.”
“First, Mr Speaker, I hope that you will let me record my sympathies and, I am sure, those of the House on the passing of John Cooney.”
“I recognise that some realignment of funding will need to accompany a realignment of priorities, and I also realise that that realignment will have implications for some existing plans and programmes. For that reason, I thought that it was reasonable to give the Arts Council timely notice in the form of that letter of expectations. In all that work, I will continue to advocate for the arts and to make the case for more investment but, importantly, investment that is well targeted as well.”
“I want to find new ways to support the arts and maximise the contribution that it can make by driving equality of access and opportunity across socio-economic groupings, age, geography and so on. I want to encourage greater participation, particularly from people and communities that might feel that the arts are not quite for them or that their cultural or artistic activities and traditions do not quite fit. <BR /> <BR />I have written a letter about my expectations to the chair and chief executive of the Arts Council of Northern Ireland. We cannot maintain the status quo and simply hope for change. The arts should be enjoyed and experienced by every community equally in Northern Ireland, but that is not always the case.”
“I am grateful to the Member for raising that question, because it is really important. We must have regional balance when it comes to funding for the arts. Everyone deserves to have access to the arts, and that will be a central theme of the work that I am undertaking to develop a new arts policy, which I announced in July 2024. That policy will fill the long-standing vacuum, and it will be an important step forward in articulating and realising the benefits that the arts currently deliver and our potential to do more and go further. It will be based on several core principles and priorities that I set out in my written ministerial statement in July last year.”