Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“Absolutely. One of the reasons why I am proud of my record is that we have been able to deliver more money for musical instruments across Northern Ireland. It has gone to all communities right across Northern Ireland. In the past year alone, 4,500 people have benefited, which is why we put the budget up to where it is at the minute. It helps not only bands but individual musicians and other groups, including many school groups. It has been a good investment that has touched so many people. We often talk about the need for regional balance. This programme ensures that we can help people right across Northern Ireland. I will continue to make sure that we fund it, because I want to make sure that our money goes as far as possible. This is a brilliant way of ensuring that there is support.”
“I have had various conversations with the chief executive. We can certainly get you the minutes of those meetings. I cannot remember any specific incidents in that regard, but, if it is important to the Member, I am happy to get that information to her.”
“I was delighted to meet the fleadh organisers and pleased with their commitment to making sure that it is a full demonstration of what we can do, not just in Belfast but across Northern Ireland, when it comes to music. There will certainly be further conversations with the organisers and the Arts Council. It is in our interest to make sure that that is a success and that it demonstrates the full range of musical talent that we have in Northern Ireland. I was pleased that they wanted to display the work of bands, because that is a significant part of our musical and cultural tradition here in Northern Ireland, and one that we should be proud of.”
“It is a requirement of the funding conditions that applicant organisations commit to equality of opportunity and a good relations duty. The Arts Council reports on those matters to the Equality Commission.”
“The Arts Council has mechanisms in place in relation to the governance and delivery of the musical instruments programme, including a process to withhold or withdraw funding.”
“I agree 100% with the Member. I was delighted to visit some local football clubs with her earlier this year, where I saw for myself the growth in the women and girls' game. They need those facilities. They need single-sex spaces as well, which is why the investment is so important. I am very supportive of her proposal.”
“The Member will be aware that there is still a shortfall in funding: that is the gap that needs to be bridged. That is why I met the Finance Minister, and those conversations are ongoing. We also need clarity on exactly what financial transactions capital means in the context of the project. That is not the only element that has not been funded, of course. We have seen how the Northern Ireland Football Fund has not been funded to its need either. I stand ready to meet anyone about the project. As I have said, I want to make sure that strategic need for sport in Northern Ireland is met.”
“The Member will probably be aware from the debate earlier that the investment strategy is still being discussed. Commitments have been made that, I hope, will be followed through not just on the money that has already been pledged but on the additional money that will be required to ensure that need is met.”
“Absolutely. I congratulate Josh. I have been involved in working with him. I am delighted at his success and hope that that continues. The Member is absolutely right. We need to make sure that that support is in place. Through Sport NI, we have the elite programmes — they need to continue — but we need to make sure that, before people get to that stage, they are supported through their grassroots club. That is why, in addition to what Sport NI offers, I have put in place the Olympic legacy fund, which helps with that grassroots element.”
“That is exactly what I have heard, which is why I introduced those programmes. A lot of our need for facilities and changing facilities is as a result of the increased participation of women in sport. I have been consistent on this: we need to see those facilities upgraded. We need to make sure that we do not do anything that harms or limits the ambition of women and girls. All sports will have my full support in making sure that we make that a reality.”
“In September, I launched £1 million of capital investment through the Olympic legacy fund. I have also made a budget allocation of £3 million to continue supporting the Your School Your Club programme. In addition, I recently approved high-level policy proposals for the grassroots facilities strand of the Northern Ireland Football Fund. That is delivery for grassroots sport across Northern Ireland.”
“Does that not prove the authors of the motion wrong when they say that there are no new actions in the strategy and that there is no new budget for it? A number of strategies that flow from it have targets and have funding allocated to them, and more will come forward in the action plan as well. Therefore, it is demonstrably false to say that there are no timelines, no targets and no new actions.”
“I appreciate the Member's giving way, and I recognise the sincerity of his attitude to poverty, which I share. It is something that I am interested in hearing more about. If the Member were in my position, however, how would he pay for introducing a child payment here, and how much does he believe doing so would cost?”
“I will do what I can to make sure that we support those who are in need. We will retrofit where we can. We want to have homes built to the highest standards, but I will not hurt people along the way.”
“I assure the Member that what we do in Northern Ireland will make no difference whatever to the climate worldwide. We are responsible for such a tiny proportion of the world's emissions. Should we do our part? Yes. Should we harm ourselves in the process? Absolutely not. I am putting people first, but the policies that the Member advocates will do more damage to people across Northern Ireland.”
“I will give way in a second. My fear is that, by going at this speed along that path, it will come at people's expense. We will sacrifice people in order to meet targets. We will be more interested in getting as fast as we can down the road of achieving targets than we will be about looking after our population.”
“Here is the thing: everybody knows that those targets are not achievable and that it will be impossible for us to meet them as they stand. I have been clear and will say in the Chamber that they need to be reconsidered. <BR /> <BR />Do I believe that we need to move towards a new future? Do we want to proceed along the path to net zero? Absolutely.”
“<BR /> <BR />I struggle to support the Alliance Party motion, because it contains a contradiction. I strongly disagree with what has been said on the other side of the House. I agree with my colleague Pam Cameron about the targets in the Climate Change Act 2022. Yes, those targets were agreed by all Executive parties, but remember why that was the case. They were agreed in the face of even worse legislation from the Green Party that spooked Alliance, the SDLP and Sinn Féin into going against the advice of the Climate Change Committee (CCC). We were not prepared to accept that. Yes, a compromise was made at the time. Kellie Armstrong shakes her head, but the Assembly went against the CCC's advice at the time, and, as a result, we are now tied down to targets that are simply not achievable.”
“She says that she does not. I am sorry, but my social housing development programme budget could be trebled, yet the same issues would still be there. Are we going to build fewer houses to a higher standard? That is a perfectly legitimate argument, if the Member wants to make it. Alternatively, are we prepared to build homes to a slightly lower standard but be able to build more homes? That is the question in front of us. There is a middle way, however. I am not giving up on meeting those higher standards to achieve more energy efficiency — Members can see the work that we are doing — but my focus will be, first and foremost, on retrofitting homes that are absolutely appalling, in which people live in horrific conditions and spend huge amounts of money just to keep their home at a barely warm temperature.”
“We can do that, but doing so will come at a cost right now. You will be the first to criticise me when I do not meet my housing targets. Is it Alliance Party policy that everything should be built to Passivhaus standards? That is an interesting one, but a balance needs to be struck, because I am genuinely concerned about the people who are languishing on housing waiting lists or in temporary accommodation. <BR /> <BR />The issues are complex, and Members on the other side of the House are often experts at making complex issues sound simple. People come here with plenty of platitudes and only a spoonful of substance. There are real decisions that need to be made. Frankly, we have to be honest about cost. The Member therefore accepts that we will have to have fewer social homes.”
“On the street that he spoke of. I can take you to Housing Executive homes in my constituency that are exactly the same. <BR /> <BR />Ms Armstrong talked about the houses that we will start this year. Are we better building the 1,000 homes that we are going to start — I think that that number will increase — to a relatively high standard, or do we build only 500 or 600 homes to a much higher standard? Those are the choices. When you sit where I have to sit day after day, those are the choices that you have to make. It is not as simple as saying, "Go ahead, get it done. Have a bit of vision. Show some bravery". It is about choices. It is about what we do with the money that we have.”
“However, the residents whom Mr Durkan mentioned are not found in new social homes, which are already built to a high standard. Could they be better? Yes. However, each time that you raise the standard a little higher, huge sums of money are needed that could be better invested in the Housing Executive stock to retrofit some of the older homes.”
“No, but there are decisions to make. My principal concern is about the tenants to whom Mr Durkan referred. He talked about old Northern Ireland Housing Executive stock. Where do we put our resource? We should put it where it makes the most difference. Of course, we should set our standards as high as possible, but that comes at a cost. If there is a decision to be made, I would rather support those who are currently living in houses in which you can see mould and damp and the immediate health impacts of both. <BR /> <BR />I think that the Member underestimated the savings. The savings are far higher when you construct homes to Passivhaus standards. I think that only £3 or £4 a week was estimated for those homes in north Belfast.”
“I think that we are all in favour of that. We want to see those higher standards. However, those come at an immediate capital cost. The Member may be aware of the homes that were constructed in north Belfast to Passivhaus standards In some cases, we are talking about an extra 25% to 35% cost for those houses. We had that conversation in the Committee before, and she said that that will pay off over time. That may be the case, but are we prepared to cut back on our social homebuilding in order to build homes to that higher standard? It is a legitimate point that she makes. I do not know whether she is calling for that today. I am happy to take an intervention. Is she saying that we in the Department for Communities should build all future social homes to Passivhaus standards?”
“The Northern Ireland Housing Executive has a 400-unit thermal improvement pilot under way. That £14 million investment from the Housing Executive's own income stream will be located across all three Housing Executive regions. The focus on improved energy efficiency measures includes low-carbon heating, the adoption of renewable technologies, electric tariff changes and improved household education. Of course, the Housing Executive is not the only social housing provider. The Housing Executive has invited registered housing associations to bring forward energy efficiency innovation pilot schemes for new-build homes through the social housing development programme. <BR /> <BR />I note the request to bring forward proposals for the redesign of social homes, incorporating higher energy efficiency standards and renewable energy integration.”
“That review will consider how an updated standard could enhance and improve the quality and sustainability of existing homes, improve thermal comfort for residents and potentially reduce their energy usage.”
“The overarching themes are to reduce energy consumption, introduce lower carbon options for heating and raise standards, with policies and proposals being brought forward by my Department, along with the Economy, Finance and AERA Departments. <BR /> <BR />There is a responsibility on social housing providers to ensure that they have strategies in place for the long-term management of their homes, by maintaining and improving their stock. The work includes updating insulation, doors, windows and heating systems, which will contribute to increasing the energy efficiency of social homes and, consequently, reduce the energy usage and related cost for tenants. My officials are reviewing the Decent Homes Standard, which is a minimum standard for existing social homes and is designed to trigger landlord interventions.”
“Of course, interventions should not cause a detriment to those who are less able to engage with or invest in the changes, and it should not cost householders more to heat their homes after the installation of renewable technologies and decarbonisation measures. As I have said, the new warm healthy homes scheme will be more ambitious than its predecessor, and it will require significantly more investment to ensure that it can balance assisting the households most in need while contributing to a reduction in emissions. <BR /> <BR />The private rented sector is a key component of a thriving housing market, but too many people who rent privately are falling into fuel poverty, and that is why consideration is being given to how any new energy-efficiency scheme could support that sector.”
“When I was making decisions about this year's budget, £7·5 million was allocated to the scheme. However, I made a bid in the June monitoring round to the Department of Finance for an additional £3·75 million, but the bid was unsuccessful. I will continue to seek opportunities and press for additional funding to be made available for this vital scheme. <BR /> <BR />In addition, I have asked my officials to bring forward a new, more ambitious fuel poverty scheme: the warm healthy homes scheme. The new scheme will continue to offer low-income households a range of energy-efficiency measures, such as insulation. However, in recognising the need to move towards renewables, it will also include low-carbon heating solutions and renewable technologies.”
“<BR /> <BR />I recognise the need to improve the minimum housing standards, and therefore one of the three themes of the draft fuel poverty strategy is to make homes more energy efficient. The setting and enforcing of new standards appropriately will also help protect those most at risk from the costs and impacts of climate change, in line with the just transition principles. To support low-income households, my Department is continuing to deliver the affordable warmth scheme for low-income owner-occupiers and those in the private rented sector to provide energy-efficiency improvement measures, such as cavity and loft insulation, replacement heating systems and windows, where appropriate. Since the scheme began in 2015, it has supported over 30,000 households with an investment of over £136 million.”
“The proposals for a long-term framework in the draft fuel poverty strategy are intended to improve energy efficiency in homes, reduce energy costs, support those in fuel poverty and ensure consumer protections. Of course, we know that warmer homes contribute to better health outcomes for physical and mental well-being, and the implementation of higher standards will stimulate the demand for skilled labour in the construction, retrofitting and renewable technology sectors, which supports job creation. I welcome the collaborative engagement across government to develop the strategy. We now have a real opportunity to address the scourge of cold, damp homes.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the Members who tabled the motion and brought it to the House today. There is much that I agree with in the motion; there is some I disagree with, which I will come to. My focus is on putting people first and making sure that we reduce fuel poverty across Northern Ireland. That is why I have instigated work on a new fuel poverty strategy, which I look forward to presenting to the Executive for approval by the end of the year, as I pledged to do. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the role that poorly insulated and low-energy-efficiency homes play in increasing costs for householders. We have all agreed on that today. Enhanced energy-efficiency standards will undoubtedly reduce heating costs, and that is crucial to tackling fuel poverty.”
“I have not, although I regularly speak to the Housing Executive about the issues. I have spoken in particular to Clanmil, which is the housing association that is involved. I have offered to meet those who have been affected, and, tomorrow, I will meet some of the staff who have been dealing with the issues.”
“It is simply because we do not have the supply right now. If we could do more, of course we would do it, but, given that the social housing is not available, there is nowhere for us to place people. That is why we have such extraordinarily long lists for social housing and such high bills for temporary accommodation. Again, I urge all Members to get behind my appeals to Executive colleagues to make sure that we have the funding in place to build more social homes.”
“I do not think that I said that at all. I did not mention any individuals. I talked about the assistance that is available more generally, because Mr Gildernew's question was not specific to any incident. It was a wide-ranging question about the help that is available, which is why I outlined that. I have not commented on the individual circumstances of those whom the Member has mentioned.”
“Yes. That is part of it. Flexibility is the key to getting permanent accommodation. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, however, it comes down to our need for more social homes across Northern Ireland. Even in circumstances such as the ones that have been highlighted, it is difficult to get suitable accommodation that is available. That is why we need to significantly increase the number of social homes that are built in Northern Ireland, and it is why I appeal to colleagues to ensure that we in the House speak with one voice and call on my Executive colleagues to make sure that we have the funding that we need to meet our social housing targets.”
“Removing intimidation points was the right thing to do because they were being abused. Everybody will now be treated equally. I have spoken to the housing associations about intimidation points, and they were fully supportive of the move that was made. I am determined to make sure that everybody has access to the accommodation that they need and am working towards that.”
“I am always happy to condemn any violence or threat of violence, wherever that comes from. Unfortunately, not everybody in the House has done that in the past, but it is certainly my position.”
“Everybody should be treated equally under the law. If you have been found guilty of a crime, you should feel the weight of that and bear the consequences. I am more than happy to put it on record that I will treat everybody equally and hold everybody to the same standard, because we want to maintain the rights of people. If others breach the rights of those people, there should be consequences.”
“I share some of the concerns that have been expressed about HMOs, because they have the potential to change the character and make-up of an area. We have seen that in places where there were traditional family homes but HMO processes have changed that. I hope to make a statement to the House in coming weeks about HMOs and where we go from here, because there is huge concern about them. It is appropriate that I set out what I can do and, importantly, the roles of councils. I look forward to doing that soon.”
“I am aware of no particular role for councils in this circumstance, but I am happy to clarify that if that is wrong. I believe that Clanmil was able to secure temporary accommodation for those who were affected. I can clarify that for the Member if that is incorrect.”
“My message is clear. It is on the record, and it is on the record with Executive colleagues when we put out a joint statement. It is not acceptable; it never has been acceptable; and it never will be acceptable. People should not be intimidated from their home, full stop.”
“The real problem that we face, apart from the appalling attacks that have been taking place, is a lack of housing. We need to address that urgently. I hope that the Member will encourage his party colleagues on the Executive and other Executive members to fulfil the bids that I make so that we can start making progress on the issue and make sure that we have enough homes. That will mean that, when people find themselves in that situation, accommodation that is suitable for their needs is available.”
“I am not aware of exactly what was said during that programme, but I look forward to hearing all the details, verifying the timelines and seeing what else we can do. However, action has been taken by the Department and by Clanmil, the housing association responsible in that instance. It is important that, as a Department, we give the appropriate support. Immediately after the events of that time, officials were directly in contact to offer appropriate advice and support. Clanmil has been doing its best to help.”
“The Housing Executive recognises that some of those impacted by the recent disorder may not have eligibility for housing and homelessness assistance and is currently working with a number of partners to explore what additional support can be provided beyond any assistance that can be provided in line with homelessness legislation. <BR /> <BR />I reiterate my condemnation of the violence, which exacerbates our housing crisis by driving people from their homes. Intimidation contributes directly to housing need, increasing the number of families who have to resort to temporary accommodation to feel safe in their homes. It is not acceptable. I will continue to condemn such activity and push for greater investment in our housing stock to tackle the housing crisis and improve the standard of available housing.”
“Its duties can include the provision of temporary accommodation to ensure that people are safe and removed from any immediate threat. Normal housing processes — the assessment of need and allocation of points — come later, after the emergency. <BR /> <BR />The Housing Executive may make referrals to relevant floating support services to help address any particular support needs arising as a result of hate incidents. That can include information regarding self-referral hostels and referrals to floating support services.”
“As I said during a motion in this place just a few weeks ago, I condemn the recent attacks that have forced victims of racist and sectarian intimidation from their homes. Everyone is entitled to live in peace and feel safe in their home, free from threat. <BR /> <BR />My Department, along with the Housing Executive and all registered housing associations, is committed to delivering a safer community for all. That includes ensuring that support and protection is provided for victims of race and sectarian hate crimes. In its role as the strategic housing authority for Northern Ireland, the Housing Executive has the responsibility for assessing those presenting as homeless due to sectarian or racist intimidation.”
“Above all, there are additional flexibilities in place in this programme that were not there in the past. I have already mentioned the two different strands. The previous scheme was for 25 hours per week, and that option is still available, but there is also a 15-hour-per-week option. The scheme is open to everyone, regardless of age. One of the previous scheme's limitations was that it was age-specific: it covered the 16-24 and over-55 age groups. However, the scheme has been successful. We are creating additional flexibilities. We will continually monitor the scheme to see whether anything else needs to be changed to make it even more accessible. We have listened to the feedback from stakeholders, and that is why the changes have been made.”
“We are spending this money to help them to get into employment, and we should promote and celebrate that. I will do everything that I can to promote the scheme to employers and potential employees, and I hope that other Members will do that. The programme has made a real difference in the past, and I believe that it can continue to make a difference. I hope that everyone will join me in making sure that it is a success.”
“Absolutely. That is what we are continuing to do. You can see the success rates both for the individuals who have been employed and the companies that took them on and said, "This is absolutely brilliant". Earlier today, I told the story of someone who came to work in my Department. The individual has autism, and he absolutely thrived in the environment. He was in a data input job, and he was so well suited to the role because he knew exactly what to do. He was able to tell me what other people were doing wrong, and how he was able to correct some of their mistakes. He thrived in that environment, and I loved hearing his story. He has got a promotion. He has talent, ability and potential. <BR /> <BR />There are so many other people out there — some who have a disability and some who do not — whose talent and potential is untapped.”