Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“I agree with the Member; in fact, the impact that Airbnbs are having on housing in Northern Ireland has been raised many times in the Chamber, particularly how they are driving up costs in some of our tourist hotspots. I had a conversation on that topic with the now former Minister for the Economy, and I know that work was being taken forward on that to see how there could be greater regulation. What the Member said is yet more anecdotal evidence of people not caring about some of the rules that are already in place. <BR /> <BR />One of the products that I am taking forward is funding the delivery of a new supply of affordable intermediate rent homes, levering in additional private finance through a private operator.”
“The first objective in the strategy is to ensure that we deliver more affordable supply and new products across all tenures. Work is under way to set up cross-departmental structures to develop the first short-term action plan. That work will consider the range of actions to be prioritised over the next few years and align to the five strategy objectives.”
“However, lessons from other places teach us that simply putting more money into the hands of first-time buyers just inflates house prices. The schemes may help people on to the first step of the housing ladder at first, but, very soon, that first step just becomes even more unaffordable. I find myself repeating this: the answer lies in increasing housing supply. We need to increase the number of houses that we build. That will reduce pressure across the whole housing system, including for first-time buyers. That is where we should focus our collective efforts. <BR /> <BR />The Executive's housing supply strategy, published in December, provides a 15-year framework for the transformational change required to deliver increased supply across all tenures. It recognises that housing affordability is a growing problem.”
“In many cases, there are no deposit requirements at all. That can be life-changing for anyone who desperately wants to own their own home but struggles, month to month, to save what they need. <BR /> <BR />Co-ownership and its support for first-time buyers has been an important feature of our housing market for decades. Without it, many more people would find themselves trapped in the private rented sector or forced to live with family or friends. Its track record is impressive, having helped over 33,000 people into homeownership since opening. Ensuring that that crucial initiative continues to receive the funding that it needs is one of my top priorities. <BR /> <BR />In proposing the motion, the SDLP called for the introduction of further schemes to help first-time buyers, including the roll-out of an equity share help-to-buy scheme.”
“High house prices, limited supply and the challenge of saving for a deposit can leave people feeling as though they are locked out of the housing market. I am determined to provide, where it is needed, the necessary support to overcome those barriers. In the past five years, my Department has provided more than £150 million to co-ownership, helping over 4,000 households, most of them first-time buyers, to become homeowners. More than 10,000 households are buying their home through co-ownership. <BR /> <BR />Saving up for a deposit is often one of the biggest challenges that people face when buying a home. For working people on lower incomes, it can feel impossible. Buying through co-ownership means that deposit requirements are significantly lower than they are when buying with a traditional mortgage.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I appreciate the comments that have been made in the debate. One thing that most of us can agree on is that homeownership is a shared aspiration that resonates deeply with many of us. It represents more than just bricks and mortar. It offers security, stability and the foundation for building a future. It provides the chance to put down roots, foster strong communities and enhance people's health and well-being. That is why I am firmly committed to making home ownership accessible to all. <BR /> <BR />Evidence shows that the first-time buyer market remains strong in Northern Ireland, but I understand that for some, especially our young people, the dream of owning a home can seem increasingly out of reach.”
“Despite the challenges that are often a fact of everyday life for many individuals and organisations across the sector, I have been met only with positivity and a willingness to help or offer constructive advice. I have also, of course, been left in no doubt about the challenges to the sector and the risks being faced. In light of those, I intend that the development of a new policy for the arts will bring a new focus on the fundamental strategic needs of the sector and on the measures that the Government and other stakeholders might take to bring the sort of change that everyone wants. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful to the Member for securing this evening's Adjournment debate. It has been useful. The points have been noted, and I will ensure that they are passed on. I am grateful to all Members for their contributions. Thank you.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to raise one other issue, which relates to the university more widely. I add my voice to those who mentioned the importance of Ulster University's Coleraine campus. I understand the role that it plays; its importance to local people and the local economy; and the investment that is needed, which Mr Bradley rightly highlighted. He invited me to Coleraine in my previous role. I will continue to support the university and advocate for the funding that is required to make sure that it does everything that it can do and fulfils its potential. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful to Members for their contributions on the Riverside Theatre's position and on broader issues. I will close by noting that, in my role as Minister, I have had the opportunity to speak to many people working in, supporting or simply enjoying the arts.”
“<BR /> <BR />The approach taken in the work will include a focus on the contribution that each sector can make to equality of access and opportunity across socio-economic grouping, age, geography and so on. I want to encourage greater participation, particularly by people and communities who may feel that the arts are not for them or that their cultural and artistic activities and traditions do not quite fit. I want to explore the potential to encourage new and deeper collaborations and partnerships, supporting greater financial sustainability across the sectors and identifying approaches and opportunities that maximise the value of such important assets and their potential. In all that work, I will continue to advocate for the arts and make the case for more, well-targeted investment.”
“I am committed to continuing to fund the arts and to highlighting to Executive colleagues the benefits of doing so properly, but the opportunity exists to look for other opportunities to complement government funding. <BR /> <BR />How government supports the arts is a central theme of the work being undertaken to develop a new arts policy under the heritage, culture and creativity programme that I announced in July last year. The programme will also see new policies developed for museums, public libraries and Northern Ireland's historical environment. The policy vacuum that existed is being filled, and the programme will be an important step forward in articulating the benefits that the arts deliver and the potential to do more and go even further.”
“Across health and well-being, they add real value in prevention, mitigation and treatment. Our education, childcare and youth work would be unrecognisable without them. <BR /> <BR />As I have said before, the arts do not get the level of funding that is merited or required. I will continue working to increase funding, because I know the impact that the arts have across Northern Ireland in all the areas of policy that I mentioned and on the quality of life of everyone here. For those reasons, I argue that funding for the arts is an investment in and for the people of Northern Ireland. While the financial climate remains challenging, however, it would be unrealistic and limiting to reach the point of relying solely on public funding to provide support and investment for the arts sector.”
“The debate has allowed Members to raise issues of funding and future plans. I will say something on both. To Members who think that the arts budget is not enough and who have said so this afternoon, I say that I agree. To Members who think that the work and contribution of the people who make up our arts sector are not understood or valued by me or my Department, I say that that is far from the truth. Every day, the arts and the creativity of our people play an important and practical role across a range of Executive policies and priorities. As Ms Sugden said, they make Northern Ireland a magnet for tourism. They feed our entertainment, leisure and night-time economy. They are the catalyst for the design and creativity that develop products, transform processes, improve productivity and drive our digital, screen and other industries.”
“I am confident that the university's considerations will take account of the role that a venue such as the Riverside Theatre plays in the cultural and social life of its hinterland. To that end, I can say that the Arts Council will be happy to provide its insight and advice on arts provision generally and, along with other stakeholders, on the arts ecology in the area. I am happy to write to the chancellor following the debate to highlight the issues that have been raised and the concerns that Members have expressed in the Chamber. I thank Members for raising the issue and for contributing to the debate.”
“However, while my Department and the Arts Council have no role in the management or funding of Riverside Theatre, that is not to say that we have no interest in the potential options arising from the proposed review.”
“I understand that, as part of its ongoing campus programme, the university is considering various developments at Coleraine, and one of those projects is a review of possible options for the Riverside Theatre, as Mr Bradley pointed out, having met the university. I understand that the review has not yet been established, that a start date has not been decided and that no outcome has been predetermined. Such a review is a matter for the university authorities, and they will, of course, be aware of the role of the theatre and its place in the local community. <BR /> <BR />It is important to make clear that the university has not yet made any decision on the future of the Riverside Theatre and certainly no decision to close it.”
“Also, as was alluded to, it is hosting a popular run of 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory', which I do not think has been mentioned so many times in a debate. It is important to mention that because we need to take care not to give the impression that the theatre is not open for business or is on the verge of closure. <BR /> <BR />Members are aware that the theatre is owned and operated by Ulster University on its Coleraine campus. It does not receive funding from the Arts Council or the local council. In addition, my Department has no role in the funding or oversight of the university.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members will be aware of the importance and value that I place on the arts, so I understand and appreciate Members' concerns about arts funding and infrastructure and the honest and welcome desire to protect, support and grow what we have in Northern Ireland. I welcome it, too, that the debate has touched on issues beyond the core point of the Riverside Theatre, and I want to address as many of the points that were raised as I can. <BR /> <BR />To begin with, it is important to emphasise the facts about the position of Riverside Theatre as I understand them to stand. The theatre has been a feature of the Coleraine and north coast landscape and part of the cultural life of the area for more than a generation.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Member for East Londonderry for bringing the debate to the House. I thank her for her passionate contribution, despite her disgraceful attempt to exploit my family connections to the area to try to get me to take some action. In response to Ms Mulholland, I can confirm that I never did tread the boards in the Riverside Theatre. That was at other locations on the north coast. However, I would not be surprised if others in this place had had that experience. There are certainly plenty here with experience of amateur dramatics from what we have seen over past months.”
“I will finish, because time is tight before lunchtime. <BR /> <BR />I hope that that gives Members some comfort. This is just the start of the work that we have to do to tackle the issue. It will be debated further later today, but, in the meantime, I ask Members to consider and support the regulations.”
“I hope that that gives the Member some comfort.”
“I agree, and I am pleased that that is what the regulation will do. We will have that maximum stake, and there will be no ambiguity. That should be welcomed. <BR /> <BR />I understand the concerns that have been expressed. We need to take into consideration the wider package of measures that are in place and my commitment to the levy, the code of practice and the other issues that have previously been debated. I hope that that reassures Members about the action that I am taking. <BR /> <BR />I say in response to Mr Carroll that a health impact screening was carried out. The proposals were included in a health impact screening of the overall legislative programme initiated in 2022. The screening concluded that, if taken together with the provisions included in the 2022 Bill, any health impacts were unlikely.”
“The Health Minister, the Education Minister and I have been very clear that we want to see Northern Ireland get its fair share. <BR /> <BR />I understand the other concerns that Mr Gaston raised. They were well debated during the passage of the last Bill. Moving into line and having consistency helps us as we attempt to tackle the issue. In fact, it was the Member's predecessor, Mr Allister, who advocated what we are talking about today. He asked during the debate:”
“That is where so much of the concern is right now. That feeds into some of the points that were raised by Mr Gaston, in particular, about the levy. I am absolutely committed to progressing the land-based levy in Northern Ireland. That is a commitment that is on me and something that I enthusiastically support. It is important that we get that funding. That funding can be used only to tackle the health-related impacts of gambling. That is why work is ongoing with my officials. The Department of Health will have work to do as well to make sure that that is progressed. We are doing everything that we can to make sure that that is taken forward. Obviously, there are different rules in place when it comes to levies in regard to online gambling because of the way in which that is regulated.”
“It is absolutely right that we make sure that there is a proper framework in place. I believe that that is what we have done now. Enforcement will be up to the PSNI. I want to make sure that the limits that we see are enforced and that, if illegal machines exist and are in places where they are not allowed to be by law, action is taken by the police. Certainly, if we, as the Department, receive any information about behaviour that is against the law, we have a responsibility to make sure that that is reported. We absolutely will keep an eye on enforcement. The really important point that was raised today is that we need to make sure that we enforce the laws that are in place. It is important that that is on record. <BR /> <BR />It is also important to note that the biggest problem that we have with gambling relates to online gambling.”
“Those, together with the legal certainty that the order brings, will be beneficial, because there is some concern in regard to the legal position around the fixed odds betting terminals that are currently in place. There is concern about what their maximum stakes and prizes are. There is an understanding, I believe, that it is a voluntary practice that those are reduced. However, there is additional clarity now that we have advice from the Departmental Solicitor's Office. We have the Supreme Court decision as well, which will limit that to a maximum stake of £2. <BR /> <BR />I will pick up first on some of the issues that Philip McGuigan addressed. One of the issues that he raised related to illegal machines. That feeds into the broader issues that he raised in relation to enforcement and responsibility.”
“I thank all the Members who contributed to the debate for the points that they have raised, and I want to address those. <BR /> <BR />First, it is important to put on record again the fact that this is an overall package of measures that the Assembly agreed in 2021 when the debates first took place. Considerable progress has been made in dealing with the concerns that many people have expressed. It is important to note that we now have an offence in law. It is an offence to cause, invite or in any way permit a person under 18 to play a high-stakes gaming machine. <BR /> <BR />There will be a new code of practice. That, as Mr McGuigan stated, has been consulted on. That will apply to gaming machine operators. Of course, there will be a new offence in regard to cheating and fixing machines or attempting to cheat.”
“The Member will get an extra five minutes.”
“I want to challenge that, because action is being taken. Let us look at what is happening. The code of practice will be brought forward and will be in place shortly, and work is being done around the levy. <BR /> <BR />I absolutely agree with the Member that there are very serious concerns around gambling. However, this legislation was subject to health impact screening. This package of measures was agreed, and there are positive implications in issues to do with fixed-odds betting terminals (FOBTs). That brings clarity in the law on that, which I will go into further in my speech. It is unfair, however, to say that action has not been taken.”
“I appreciate the Member giving way, and I agree with some of the points that he has made. Does he accept that this was part of a larger package of reforms back in 2021? As a result of that legislation, a code of practice applying to gaming machine operators will come in in a way that it has not before. It will be an offence to cause, invite or, in any way, permit a person under 18 to play a high-stakes game. There will also be a new offence of cheating, fixing machines or attempting to cheat. We have to take this in the round, as well as some other things that I will come to later — I know that our interventions cannot be too long. It has to be seen in the round of the agreement that was made at that time. We have measures in place that will make a difference.”
“They bring Northern Ireland land-based gaming stakes and prize limits into line with those in the rest of the UK. In Great Britain, those land-based limits have been in place for six years. Their introduction was welcomed at the time by those on all sides of the gambling debates, and, so far, there has been no turning back on that. I believe that that will be the case in Northern Ireland as well.”
“<BR /> <BR />The only previously agreed provision that is not included in the order is the proposal to increase the maximum pay-out prize in any one game that is played on a gaming machine in a registered club. During the previous mandate, it was agreed in principle that the present prize limit should be raised from £250 to £400. That increase can only be made by regulation, and it is subject to the negative resolution procedure rather than the affirmative resolution procedure. Therefore, should the Assembly affirm the order today, I will immediately arrange to make and lay a regulation to allow that change to take place. <BR /> <BR />The increases that the Assembly is being asked to affirm today deliver on the intention of the previous Assembly, which did not have time available to do this during its mandate.”
“It will increase the maximum charge for playing any one game on a gaming machine that is installed in a licensed premises — for example, a pub — from 30p to £2, and it will increase the maximum charge for playing any one game on a gaming machine installed at a bingo club premises, licensed office, which is a bookie's office, or a premises that has an amusement permit in force, which is an amusement arcade, from 30p to £2. It will increase the maximum pay-out prize in any one game played on a gaming machine in a premises that is licensed to sell alcohol from £25 to £100, and it will increase the maximum pay-out prize in any one game played on a gaming machine in a bingo club premises, licensed office or premises that have an amusement permit in force from £25 to £500.”
“The order, if affirmed, will increase the maximum amount that may be paid by any one person for any one chance to win a bingo prize from 50p to £1; increase the maximum total amount of sales that a club may take in any game from £120 to £500; increase the maximum single money prize that can be paid or offered to any winner from £25 to £100; and increase the maximum total amount or value of the prizes allowed in any one game from £120 to £500. <BR /> <BR />If the order is affirmed, it will increase the maximum permitted charge for playing one game on a gaming machine at a registered club from 50p to £2.”
“I understand that agreement then was on the condition that the parent legislation — the Betting, Gaming, Lotteries and Amusements (Northern Ireland) Order 1985 — was amended to ensure that limits could be set at different levels for different premises; for example, at a lower level for premises where alcohol is being sold. That amendment to the primary legislation was made at the end of the previous mandate. The previously agreed increases for gaming and bingo clubs, and for machine gaming in permitted locations, is now reflected in the order. It is important to note that the increases will apply only to higher-limit gaming — in short, gaming in which only people aged 18 and over are permitted to take part. <BR /> <BR />I will describe each of the increases in turn. I will begin with non-machine gaming at bingo clubs.”
“The order was laid before the Assembly on 13 January and is subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. The order is made under the Betting, Gaming, Lotteries and Amusements (Northern Ireland) Order 1985. I thank the Communities Committee for its scrutiny of the policy and the order. <BR /> <BR />The Gaming (Variation of Monetary Limits) Order increases the maximum permitted stakes and prizes for playing bingo at a bingo club and for playing adult-only gaming machines at those premises where they are allowed. The increases were agreed in principle during the previous Assembly mandate.”
“However, Committee members decided that a departmental commitment to produce a review was not strong enough, as a future Minister could, when faced with competing priorities, decide against completing a review. On balance, I can see that a review of the initial implementation of the measures may prove useful. Therefore, I am content to support the Committee's amendment.”
“The amendment would require the Department to review, report and lay with the Assembly a report setting out its assessment of the impacts of any changes at least 36 months and not more than 42 months after the first regulations come into operation. <BR /> <BR />The amendment was proposed to me quite late in the Committee Stage. Initially, I did not consider that the amendment was required, as the Bill and the subsequent implementation of the proposals by statutory rule would be parity measures. As an alternative, I proposed that my Department provide the Committee with such a review on the same timescale based on the monitoring of automatic enrolment currently carried out via the annual survey of hours and earnings and other statistics that will be available at that time.”
“Before I address the technical amendment that the Chairperson of the Committee for Communities has tabled, I thank the Assembly and the Executive for supporting the progress of the Bill through the House. I also offer my thanks to the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) for its rapid yet thorough advice on each stage of the Bill's progress so far. Additionally, I thank the Committee for Communities for its assistance in progressing this short but important Bill to Consideration Stage. The Committee's scrutiny has been robust and diligent. <BR /> <BR />As you will be aware, the proposals to extend automatic enrolment are intended to continue to normalise pension saving among workers, helping lower earners to build resilience for retirement; support individuals in multiple part-time jobs; and simplify automatic enrolment for employers.”
“I am happy to take the Member's comment on board. I want to make sure that I do everything that I can to help those in need, regardless of the source of the threat or the violence. That is why it is important that, for those who are in immediate need, there has been no change to the rules for ensuring that people have temporary accommodation. However, please be assured that I do not believe that it is acceptable, in any way, that people live in temporary accommodation. It is terrible for children, their outcomes, their mental health and their education. That is why we are doing everything that we can to address it. I recently allocated additional resource to help people move on from temporary accommodation. The challenge is huge, but we are taking action to ensure that we deal with it. Today is another positive step.”
“No. I find it odd that the Member says that he has a problem with making sure that everybody is treated in the same way. Does he really expect me to say that I believe that certain victims should be treated differently from other victims on the basis of the causation of the violence or the threat? Absolutely not. We will treat everybody equally. It is not about pitting people against one another, and it is terrible that the Member has taken that attitude.”
“No. The Member is absolutely wrong. First, the rules on emergency accommodation will stay the same. Nobody will be forced to stay in their home. If somebody is at risk, is fearful or needs to leave their home, the same rules will apply for accessing emergency temporary accommodation if their life is at risk. <BR /> <BR />I strongly disagree with what the Member said about pitting people against one another. It was a disgraceful comment. That is not what the announcement is about. It is about making sure that everybody is treated in the same fashion. It is about levelling the playing field.”
“That will all form part of the review that will take place over the next year. If the Member has particular views on what we should do, I will be happy to hear from him.”
“It is not specifically part of today's announcement, but we want to do everything that we can to reduce and, I hope, eliminate the control and power that paramilitaries have, and, to achieve that, we will look at all the options.”
“There is no doubt that we face a housing crisis, and that is why I have taken the steps that I have taken, whether by providing additional resources to tackle some of the acute homelessness issues that we face or by providing additional financial transactions capital to find new ways to ensure that we have adequate housing supply in Northern Ireland. We also need to ensure that we have a housing supply strategy in place so that we can increase the overall number of homes. I do not believe that today's announcement, as the Member rightly stated, will have a significant financial impact, but I am determined to do everything that I can to make sure that we have a housing system that is fit for purpose. I will ask Executive colleagues, who have also made that commitment, to make sure that the funding is in place so that we can succeed.”
“As I said in my statement, there is the potential for a significant cost implication, but that will be looked at. I hope that people can see it from what I have said today, but we want to put fairness at the heart of everything that we do. That includes the emergency grant. We must make sure that we get help to those who need it.”
“That is absolutely what we want to do through the emergency grant. That is why we will review it. It is currently set at £754, and we pay out about £120,000 a year in grants.”
“First and foremost, it is about making sure that everybody is on a level playing field and that it does not matter whether a victim of domestic violence or abuse or of intimidation of any kind is female or male. We need to see more homes in the first place, which is why we have the housing supply strategy. With the allocations that I made before Christmas, I provided additional help for those who found themselves homeless. There were also increases for the Supporting People programme, so those who are in a vulnerable situation and need help also have that support. If the Member wishes to raise specific instances with me, I am happy for her to do so. The Housing Executive is committed to doing everything that it can to help those in need, but she raises an important issue, and I have taken it on board.”
“We are in a crisis situation in Northern Ireland. I will not sit back. I will do what I can to make sure that we improve the lives of people in Northern Ireland.”
“I am grateful to the Member for his support, which is often vocal, from the Back Benches. I know that the issue concerns him. I have made it clear that I want to get things done while I hold this office. I hope that, when it comes to housing, we see action being taken. For a long time, people have wanted to see action on the removal of intimidation points; we have taken action. People want to see a housing supply strategy; I have brought one forward. People wanted to see a stand-alone outcome for housing in the Programme for Government; we delivered that as well. I will continue to deliver, whether that is on antisocial behaviour, on cheaper rent through the intermediate rent scheme, through more innovative use of financial transactions capital or by making it easier to build more affordable homes.”
“I am glad that the Member has raised the issue, because it is another one that he will see action on soon. There has been a joint consultation with the Department of Justice on antisocial behaviour. We need to make better use of the antisocial behaviour powers that we have, and we also need to increase them. It is inappropriate — I am sure that we all have examples from our constituencies — for those who are, essentially, the troublemakers to be treated better than their victims. In line with what I have set out today, Members will see the change in approach that I am bringing forward: we will always put the victim first.”