Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“If the reason that our welfare bill is the highest in the UK is that our population has the greatest need, why, after decades of that level of spending, are the results as they are? Where is the evidence that high spending is translating into better outcomes? Where is the improvement in mental health, in employment and in economic participation? I do not believe that there has been an improvement. The system is fundamentally broken, and we need to change it.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I agree with him. The figures are troubling, but they are not surprising. That is not a welfare safety net but a system that has lost its way entirely. I have said it before, and I will say it again, that we have a welfare system that is broken. It is not working for the people whom it is supposed to serve, and it is certainly not working for the hard-working families across Northern Ireland who do the right thing and pay their taxes but are left wondering why it does not pay for them to work. <BR /> <BR />Our party will always be on the side of working families. We believe that working must pay, and we will not apologise for saying so.”
“Child poverty is one of the areas that we will look at. It is an area that can be impacted on by so many of the issues that we are already dealing with and progressing in the strategy. However, I recognise the need for a particular focus on child poverty, and that is implicit throughout the document. We may need to do something more explicit, and I am happy to look at that. I have tasked my team to look at measures that we can introduce that are costed, deliverable and, in particular, targeted. We often talk about measures that can be put in place, but they are not really targeted, and there can be a scattergun approach. We want something that will help those who are most in need.”
“We had a very effective public consultation. We heard that lots of things are good and right in the strategy, and there was overwhelming support from the public. Some of the interest and lobby groups had concerns. We take all that on board, and it was a genuine consultation process. As a result, I have tasked the permanent secretary to work with other officials in my Department to make sure that we bring forward everything that needs to be in the strategy, including all the things that we currently do. There is a little bit of a mismatch, in that much more is being done by all Departments to tackle poverty. We will bring that back, and, as I said at the Committee, I hope to have the next version by early September.”
“First, I would like to think that we will get clarity on the revitalisation of the Housing Executive and its ability to borrow. Of course, if that is the case, there may well need to be some examination of all those issues to make sure that the relationship is right. Overall, my vision for the next decade is to make sure that we use the money that we have to best effect, that we build more homes and that we cut the waiting lists so that we can make a real difference in the lives of the people of Northern Ireland, which is what we are here to do.”
“We always keep our structures, parts of the Department and the arm's-length bodies under review. However, the Housing Executive is a substantial social landlord, and there is still a significant and leading role for it to play in that. Of course, if that can be improved, we will look at it.”
“Absolutely. If there are gaps in the legislation on that most important of issues, I am more than happy to work with colleagues — I will work with anybody, quite frankly — to make sure that the legislation, guidance or provision is right, to fix it where necessary and to put in place any that is not there.”
“We have not had those conversations directly with the Health Minister, but I know that Sport NI is doing substantial work on the issue of safeguarding. I am happy to come back to the Member if other engagements have taken place between the Department for Communities and the Department of Health on the issue.”
“It needs to end, because the people who get up every morning and go to work deserve a Government who are straight and honest with them on the issue.”
“Yes, the Member is absolutely right. Too much money — hundreds of millions of pounds — is being lost through benefit fraud every year. That money should be going to schools, hospitals and waste water infrastructure, which we have talked about today. My Executive paper on welfare fraud, which is about properly resourcing that work and ensuring that we claw back some of the fraudulently stolen money, is with ministerial colleagues, but I cannot even get it on the Executive's agenda. I do not know why Sinn Féin is so opposed to tackling the issue, but I will continue to push it, because that is the right thing to do. Fraud takes money away from those who genuinely need it and is paid for by every hard-working taxpayer in this country.”
“However, they also believe that a system that traps people in dependency, which has grown year after year without producing better outcomes and which nobody in power seems to be willing to scrutinise honestly, is letting everyone down. <BR /> <BR />The taxpayer funds the system, and it is meant to serve the people. We have put in place our jobs programme so that we can tackle the real barriers to employment and get people off benefits and into work. Work is not just an economic transaction; it is about dignity, purpose and independence. That is what I want for the people of Northern Ireland. That has not been funded by the Department of Finance in its draft Budget this year, but I hope that it will see the problem with that and make sure that it invests in it.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I speak directly to his constituents when I say that I understand the frustration that they feel and that I am on their side. The figures are stark. Northern Ireland has an economic inactivity rate of 26·5%, which is 5·5 percentage points higher than the UK average. Too many people are stuck outside the workforce. Too many people are on benefits who do not need to be on benefits. From speaking to people in my constituency and across Northern Ireland, I know that they go to work, pay their taxes and do the right thing and that, when they look at the welfare system that is funded by their taxes, they feel, with justification, that something has gone structurally wrong. They are not heartless; they believe in helping people who genuinely need help.”
“Let us be very clear today: exactly the same words can justifiably be used about Sinn Féin, because its Ministers are the ones dragging their feet. I therefore look forward to the statement from Mr Gildernew accusing his Executive colleagues in Sinn Féin of a:”
“The Member would need to address those questions to Sinn Féin Ministers in the first instance. My job was to facilitate the work that came back from Departments, but Sinn Féin Ministers were dragging their feet. That is a question that they need to be asked. Why were they not prepared to engage or sign off on those things? <BR /> <BR />I note a press statement that Mr Gildernew issued last week on the issue. I also note that he is not in his place today. I will read from it, but, for the benefit of the youth wing of Sinn Féin, I say that this is not my quote; it is a quote from somebody else. We know how it deliberately misrepresented my colleague Pam Cameron last week. I wonder where it gets it from. We have seen plenty how those on the Sinn Féin Benches have told mistruths and deliberately misled the public on the issue.”
“She responded to me 13 months after I wrote to her asking about her plans and the work that she would engage in on the Irish language and Ulster-Scots strategies — 13 months later. The Finance Minister would only note the strategy rather than give it his approval, and do not even get me started on the Department for Infrastructure. There has been continual delay and dragging of feet from Sinn Féin Ministers. I remind everybody in the House that the Irish language and Ulster-Scots strategies are cross-departmental. If other Ministers are not prepared to respond in a timely manner or at all, it will be very difficult for the Executive to make progress.”
“<BR /> <BR />By way of evidence, and because I know that Sinn Féin is very interested in the issue, I am holding a letter that I received on 14 May 2026 from the Minister for the Economy in which she says:”
“The Member is absolutely right to acknowledge the fact that it is an Executive strategy. That is why a cross-departmental working group was set up to examine the work of the Ulster-Scots and Irish language strategies. I am happy to inform the Member that Ministers were invited to respond to the draft action plans for their Departments by 11 March 2026. Not all Ministers responded within the specified time frame, and those who did have been unable to provide full approval for their action plans. Some Ministers expressed reservations about the budgetary implications in particular. In fact, a final response from the Department for the Economy is still outstanding.”
“When somebody gets something wrong, I do not think that there is anything wrong with them admitting that they got it wrong. I encourage everybody in the House to move to a more sensible position and to back our plan so that we can get something that is realistic that does not end up costing the people of Northern Ireland dearly. That is the trajectory that we are on now with the targets that they voted for.”
“I absolutely will. We often hear in the House about the importance of following the science and evidence. In the previous mandate, we were presented with evidence and advice that increasing our targets from those that were originally proposed to net zero by 2050 would cost us more. It was very clear how much that would cost, because that figure, £900 million per year by the end of the period leading up to 2050, was provided to the House and was publicly available. Mr O'Toole is looking around the House. I do not know whether he is shocked by that figure or is trying to ignore it, but that is the truth. Regardless of what we do about the climate change targets, it will increase the cost. The targets that were put in and voted for by Members on the other side of the Chamber will have an impact. We need to face up to that reality.”
“I hope that it will start to use its great influence so that we see a reduction in duty and tax, which, rather than something that, limited as it is, we will, unfortunately, have to wait for, would make a real difference immediately.”
“I have worked on this. When others failed to step up, I stepped forward, as I did last year and when I was in the Department for the Economy, to make sure that there was support and assistance for the people who need it most. Yes, I will continue to help in whatever way I can. However, this is not without complexity; there is difficulty here. It has taken a lot of time to put the scheme together. I would rather have something far simpler, such as the UK Government quickly putting in place the cuts to fuel duty that would make a difference not just for oil customers but for everybody in Northern Ireland who needs to move around. At the last general election, the SDLP boasted about the influence that it would have with the Labour Party.”
“<BR /> <BR />My officials continue to work at pace to deliver the necessary IT system development and to put in place the legislative, contractual and administrative arrangements that are required for the scheme. It is expected to launch in early August, with the aim that it will provide support ahead of winter. My officials will shortly brief the Communities Committee on the scheme policy. <BR /> <BR />Other measures are in place. The oil savings network, which is part of NI Energy Advice and is funded by the Department, offers support and advice on purchasing oil. We also have the NI Energy Advice line. The warm healthy homes strategy that I brought forward will provide us with options to support vulnerable oil users and to improve that support.”
“My Department remains firmly committed to providing practical assistance to those who are most at risk of fuel poverty. On 16 April, I brought to the Executive proposals for a support package aimed at helping those most impacted on by home heating oil costs. The proposals were agreed, securing £36·4 million to deliver an application-based scheme. <BR /> <BR />Assistance of £100 for home heating oil will be offered to over 340,000 households across Northern Ireland. That covers a range of vulnerable groups, including those with disabilities, older people and people on a low income. For clarity, a low-income household is defined as one with an annual income of below £30,000 after deductions such as National Insurance, income tax and pension contributions.”
“I refer the Member to my response to the TUV Member for North Antrim, in which I answered the same question. I am happy to provide that information to him as well. It is completely accurate to say that waste water infrastructure is a constraining factor in the building of homes across Northern Ireland. That needs to be dealt with. We have the housing supply strategy and will soon have the action plan within the strategy to ensure that the money that goes to DFI can be spent to help us to build more social homes and more homes overall.”
“If homes are not required to be built to the same specification, that could enable housing associations to be more flexible in their design and, importantly, reduce costs.”
“The review of the grant support for new-build social housing will explore optimum approaches to the use of the grant to ensure a more sustainable funding environment for housing associations. This will aim to support their ability to plan across market cycles, attract private finance, drive output in starts and completions and ensure continued efficiency, effectiveness and innovation in delivering high-quality social homes within a constrained budget environment. <BR /> <BR />The quality standards review will look at the design guide and the standards to which social housing is built. Housing associations have advised that the design guide requires elements that are not really necessary or value for money, so the review will look at the requirement to build all new social housing to lifetime-homes and secure-by-design standards.”
“<BR /> <BR />In relation to Department-owned sites, Grosvenor Barracks, on the edge of Enniskillen, has outline planning permission for around 200 homes, including at least 30% social provision, offering a key opportunity to increase housing supply. Pre-market engagement to inform the procurement strategy will commence in the coming weeks, with a developer expected to be appointed in the 2026-27 financial year.”
“In the Fermanagh and South Tyrone constituency there are currently 109 social housing units under construction. A further 109 social housing units are programmed to start as part of the social housing development programme from 2026-27 to 2028-29. These will be subject to sufficient budget being available for the social housing development programme. <BR /> <BR />Programme schemes can be lost or slip to future years for a variety of reasons, for example, delays in acquiring sites or failure to secure planning approval. Additional schemes can be added to the social housing development programme in-year through the competitive land, design and build procurement route or the purchase of existing satisfactory or off-the-shelf properties.”
“That work is continually done by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. If the Member has any particular issues, I am happy to hear them and pass them on to the Housing Executive as it plans the way forward for the coming years.”
“The Member is right to raise that issue. I do not have the specific figures in front of me or the date of the last meeting, although I met the Infrastructure Minister and her predecessor. However, I will provide that information, as well as the other dates on which officials met on this subject because, obviously, they will be working through the housing supply strategy.”
“It is a big factor in the overall cost of a home, and I am determined that we can make use of land that lies vacant and does not have a use elsewhere in the public sector, because there is a huge demand for housing. I will push that as much as I can.”
“It will be delivered, and we will start to see the first houses completed this year. I want to see the scheme expanded, however. It is a good use of financial transactions capital (FTC), and I want to see the scheme continue and for it to be expanded. <BR /> <BR />I am working with Executive colleagues on a plan for which I can get support from other Ministers on how to best use public-sector land.”
“It is worth acknowledging that there was a significant increase in the number of housing starts this year. That number has gone up in the past couple of years now, but we absolutely need to do more. It is positive that we have got this far, but I would have been able to meet the overall target for this year had I been given earlier in the year the money that I was eventually given. If I had received that money then, the outcome would have been different. The outcome is still a positive one, but that is why we have to do everything that we can. Yes, we have to get more money, make sure that grants are used in the right way and make it as straightforward as possible for homes to be built. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right to mention the intermediate rent scheme.”
“I agree with the Member, and that is why the Executive put targets in not only the housing supply strategy but in the Programme for Government. If one puts in place targets and credibly wants to meet them, funding is needed. That has not happened, however, and it is a problem that limits people's confidence in our ability to get things done. As I said, I am doing what I can to make best use of the housing association grant, but we also need to make the process as simple and straightforward as we can in order for homes to be built. The design guide will play a huge role in that. I faithfully brought forward the strategy, and there is a commitment in the Programme for Government, but we need to make sure that others properly fund it.”
“It is important that that happen so that we can tackle all the issues. Waste water absolutely remains an important consideration, and I hope that the Minister for Infrastructure will produce plans that take a realistic approach to solving the issue.”
“It is a significant issue. It is not the biggest issue, but it is still a challenge in certain areas, and we need to find a resolution if we want to build more homes across all tenures, be it social housing or homes in the private sector. We need to remove all the drags on doing that so that the targets can be reached. The waste water issue is important, but we need funding to address it. <BR /> <BR />There is also a responsibility on councils to make sure that their local development plans are fit for purpose, that they are zoning land for development in the right places and that their planning systems are as efficient as possible. All those actions contribute to the number of homes that can be built. That is why we produced the housing supply strategy, and we will have the first action plan with the Executive very soon.”
“I do not have the specific information that the Member requested at the start of her question, but I am happy to provide her with it.”
“We are therefore looking at how we award the housing association grant, and we are looking at the design guide. We are doing so in order to make it as simple and straightforward as possible for more homes to be built. That is work that others in the House have opposed, but it is work that I am doing, because it will make a difference.”
“I have to say that Sinn Féin has some neck to complain about my not being able to build as many social homes as I want when it is in charge of the Department of Finance and could have made an allocation. If you do not like what it is that I am spending money on, ring-fence the targets that are in the Programme for Government to allow us to build those homes. There is a refusal to do that. <BR /> <BR />The vast majority of my capital budget goes on social homes. This year, we spent £210·7 million; the year before, it was £176 million; and the year before that, it was £161 million. I need more finance, and I will do everything that I can to get that. However, it is not just about getting more money but using that money better.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is also worth noting that confirmation of a significant portion of the final Budget allocation was received only following the December monitoring round, and that meant that we were able to profile only 1,250 potential starts until the end of December. The additional funding enabled the starts target to be increased to 1,750, but that relied heavily on housing associations being prepared to work at risk on many scheme proposals. If you want more social homes, you have to fund them, and, right now, I have not been given that funding.”
“I am also pressing the Executive to agree that they include the full requirements of the social housing development programme in a category of capital allocations to Departments that is protected for that specific purpose by being earmarked at the point of allocation. That category is for priorities that the Executive agree the relevant Minister must fund before they turn to the matter of how much general capital to allocate to each Minister for them, in turn, to allocate at their discretion in the Department. If you care about housing, you have to allocate the funding to it and not just expect a Minister to take it out of their overall budget.”
“Yes, absolutely. We see that time and time again from Sinn Féin. It is not able to put its money where its mouth is. I hope that people in the Republic of Ireland are listening to what is happening here. Sinn Féin is in charge of the Department of Finance and has the ability to bring forward proposals on where money goes into each Department. It has not been funding the social housing development programme adequately. To achieve 5,850 starts by May 2027 will be extremely challenging, and it will require sufficient budget being provided to my Department and for that to be provided early in the financial year.”
“I have also brought forward the reviews of the grant and the design guide, and a range of other things is being explored or introduced that will complement the social housing development programme's moving towards the housing supply targets. Those include the New Foundations programme, Housing Executive acquisitions and the housing supply action plan that will shortly come to the Executive.”
“As a result, over 6,000 new social homes are under construction across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Looking forward, we need to do more. We need to secure more budget much earlier. In December, £29 million in extra funding was available, which was more than the programme could absorb once in-year funding became available. I have, therefore, repeatedly pressed the Executive to earmark more funding for the social housing development programme, and, while there is some impact from this in the current Budget proposals, that is still not enough. That is why I have prepared a proposal so that we can secure public-sector land instead of grant.”
“At the beginning of 2025-26, the outlook for the social housing development programme was poor, with a budget that would have achieved only 1,100 new social homes. The leader of the Opposition said during a debate at that time that, if we were lucky, barely 1,000 new homes would be started. Since then, however, I have secured a further £42 million, which has resulted in the largest investment ever in the social housing development programme and achieved 1,765 new social home starts, representing a 17% increase in delivery, year on year.”
“The Member will have heard my earlier answer and the indication that it is not just the 40 points that will be available through primary social needs; there will be additional points for homelessness and any of the other circumstances and categories that people find themselves in. Of course, we are reviewing that overall. I hope that we will be in a position to bring forward something that works and is fit for purpose. As I outlined earlier, the review will be concluded as soon as possible, and we hope that the changes will be implemented by spring 2027.”
“If any of them have any particular concerns, I would be happy to hear from them directly or through the Member.”
“I place on record my appreciation of all those in society who help us to tackle the issue. There are many people in the community and voluntary sector who, in many different ways, help those affected, and they are to be commended. I want that to continue; I have seen first-hand the impact on those affected. <BR /> <BR />The Member will be aware of the budget situation that we currently find ourselves in. The fact that a Budget has not been agreed has implications not just on the longer-term certainty that is required in that area but throughout the public sector and the organisations funded by it. We will endeavour to provide as much support and help as we can. We will give early indications, if and when we can, of that funding. I recognise and understand the importance of the work that those organisations do.”
“In addition, my officials are engaging with the Northern Ireland Federation of Housing Associations to determine what assistance may be available to support the introduction of the scheme across housing associations. <BR /> <BR />We are funding the Supporting People budget for services that are aimed at helping women who are at risk of domestic violence. In 2025-26, that totalled £5·21 million. That included £3 million for short-term accommodation-based refuge provision, funding 14 refuges, with 138 units of support, and £2 million for floating support provision across nine services. Where that refuge is needed, it is provided, and, where we can help those who are affected by domestic abuse to stay in their home, we provide that support.”
“There will be different circumstances for different individuals, but, oftentimes, they want to remain in their own home. We have floating support services available through the Supporting People programme to provide practical housing-related support to victims. That helps them to sustain their own tenancies and live safely and independently in their own home. <BR /> <BR />We also have the Sanctuary scheme, which is a multi-agency initiative that enables victims or those at risk of domestic abuse to remain in their home by installing additional security measures. The aim is to ensure that victims do not need to leave their home or become homeless.”