Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“Therefore, it is the right thing to do, not just because of the money that it will save and the benefit that it will have for the individuals concerned but because of the impact that it will have on society as a whole. That is an argument that I will be making very strongly to the UK Government. They need to invest more in programmes like this, not by pulling the rug out from underneath those who are disabled and need support but by helping those who can get back into work, whether they are disabled or not. This is a far better approach to take, and there are significant financial savings. I want to share in those so that I can do even more.”
“I will not go that far, but the Member is right to raise the impact that this will have. We looked at some of the figures that were available, and I am not able to break those down by the impacts on Departments, but if you take someone who is not in work and bring them into work, on average, it saves £15,000. That is a direct financial benefit to the Treasury because of what will not be paid out in welfare and benefits and what the Treasury will be bringing in through National Insurance contributions and income tax. That is a considerable sum of money, but it goes even further than that. We know that if somebody is in work, they are better off. It is better for their physical and mental health, and I suspect that it has potential justice outcomes, education outcomes and health outcomes.”
“I am more than happy that the Member is in agreement with me twice in one day. We even had the Justice Minister agreeing with Phillip Brett today and vice versa, so something must be breaking out. We will see how long that lasts.”
“We still need to do some work on that to see what the connections between those are. We will work with the Department for Work and Pensions and the Treasury, where necessary, to see what needs to be done. I can provide the Member with further information when we get that clarity. I just do not have it at this moment in time.”
“I would love it to be a rolling scheme that meets the needs of people right across Northern Ireland, and I am happy to work with her on that.”
“As I said to the Member for West Tyrone Ms Brogan, I want to make sure that this has an impact right across Northern Ireland. The scheme is all about breaking down barriers. She is absolutely correct to identify that, for many people in rural areas, you will see barriers in respect of connectivity and transport and, sometimes, digital connections. That is why we will look at all those issues, together with their work coach, to see what needs to be done to help in those areas and to make sure that we can get as many people in as possible. <BR /> <BR />I encourage the Member to get in contact with the Department if she has constituents who are perhaps having some trouble or feel that additional support is necessary, because we want to hear about that and learn from it.”
“I want to be absolutely clear that it goes further than the schemes that we had in place that were age-specific. We saw huge demand and interest from other age groups, so we have opened it up to all eligible benefit claimants, regardless of age. Those who are interested can apply through their work coach, via their local jobs and benefits office, if they do not have a work coach, or via the JobApplyNI website. I hope that that will be of benefit to people across East Londonderry as well.”
“Yes, absolutely. In fact, the scheme is now available to all eligible benefit claimants. That has been flexed so that people of all ages can benefit from it. That was not previously the case. Of course, it absolutely ties in with the disability and work strategy that I announced earlier. In many cases, the people whom we have taken into the Civil Service and directly into the Department for Communities have a disability, and I want to see that continue. <BR /> <BR />The two are closely linked. One will continue to impact on the other. I certainly hope that we can continue the funding in the future, because it will make a huge difference to the work that we are doing and the target of getting 50,000 more disabled people into work over the next decade.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have evidence from the previous schemes that I want to present to the Treasury, because I want to be clear with it that this is of huge benefit to it. I hope that we will be able to get something similar in place as we negotiate on welfare fraud and error, because we are going to great lengths and great expense to put the measures in place. The Treasury is the primary beneficiary of that financial benefit. I want to share that so that we can go even further and create more opportunities for people across Northern Ireland, including through some of the programmes that the Member mentioned.”
“As the Committee Chairman said, the scheme was successful, and many people wanted to see it continuing. I do not see it as pitting one against the other in any way. The Member is absolutely right to say — I agree with her — that many good employment schemes are provided in that way, but JobStart served a specific purpose at that time, and we want to build on that success. Of course, I am always open to hearing other ideas about how we can use the budget that we have to even greater effect. This is one of the best ways in which we can spend the money that we have, because we get such a significant return on the investment, not just in pounds and pence but through the impact that it has on people's lives.”
“We heard people say a few times that there were no new actions. I pledged in a ministerial statement earlier this year and in the strategy itself that new actions would come forward. One of those was an employability programme, and this is the employability programme that we are bringing forward. I look forward to more actions being realised and bringing forward the action plan for the anti-poverty strategy so that we can put even more meat on the bones.”
“Absolutely. I want people across Northern Ireland to benefit from the scheme. That is why we have gone out to employers who were in the previous scheme and are looking for new employers to take part. I encourage everybody to take part. It does not matter where you are from: if you are looking for employment, if you want those barriers broken down and if you want a bit of support, we are here to help. I encourage people who want to avail themselves of the scheme, be that in the Member's constituency of West Tyrone or anywhere else, to apply through their jobs and benefits office (JBO) or work coach.”
“It is important that we do everything that we can to make the scheme more accessible for people. In addition to changing from having only one option of 25 hours to having another for 15, there will be a change insofar as all ages will be able to benefit from the scheme. The previous scheme was for 16- to 24-year-olds, and there was an over-55 pilot. Both of those elements have been changed. Having heard about the experience of the previous scheme, we have taken those further steps to make the experience more positive for those who want to take part.”
“I believe that most people who will benefit from the scheme will start in this financial year, but there will be a tail from that. That £12·4 million will be spent over the next two financial years to keep them in employment.”
“That is an important point. I am trying to make sure that we break down barriers to employment. The Member is right to raise childcare as one of those barriers. That is why childcare is prominent in the anti-poverty strategy. The Member will be aware of the Education Minister's work in that regard, and we look forward to the publication of the childcare strategy soon. Childcare is an important element of the scheme, because we are trying to break down barriers to employment entirely. It is important that we highlight that barrier and take action on it.”
“The Department will continue to oversee the scheme. There have been changes. One of the changes that might be most interesting to the Committee Chairman is the introduction of a new option. Previously, the scheme was for 25 hours' work per week, but we have now included a 15-hour week option, because it was seen as being quite a big jump for some people to go from not working, perhaps for many years, to working 25 hours a week. That is why there is a second option that allows people to work for 15 hours. Hopefully, that will be a stepping stone to further success.”
“I am happy to get the exact figures from the previous schemes for the Member. I shared some of the data in the past with Ministers in the UK Government. I specifically remember sharing data with Liz Kendall when she was in post in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). She was shocked and surprised at just how successful the retention of people in employment had been. It was at over 70%, which is a huge percentage compared with that for some other programmes, so that is really positive. I can get the Member the specific information that he is looking for, but the reason that I have invested so much of my budget for this year in the programme is that it has previously been a success. It has worked. It is an investment in people that has paid off. That is why I will continue with it.”
“We have employers already applying to offer the quality work opportunities to which so many of our citizens need access. I look forward to hearing about many more transformational experiences, and I commend my statement to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />The programme that I am announcing today promotes access to good, inclusive employment, particularly for those who face barriers in the labour market. The opportunity to participate in supportive employment improves people's health and well-being, protects them against social exclusion and provides them with income, an identity and a sense of purpose. It helps to drive us towards having a more productive and competitive economy. That approach is central to the third pillar of the anti-poverty strategy, which is to support people to exit poverty. It helps ensure that we tackle the root causes of poverty in a sustainable way. To all those who questioned the anti-poverty strategy, I say that that is just one of the many actions resulting from that strategy. <BR /> <BR />JobStart, Creating Work Opportunities opens today.”
“Following her involvement in the JobStart scheme, she shared how it gave her access to a wide range of training, built her confidence and provided her with the experience that she needed to apply for future roles. She also told us that JobStart had not just helped her professionally but helped her become a financially stable new mother. That is the power of high-quality employment support. <BR /> <BR />I want to see more people have those opportunities to participate in work, to develop and build new skills and to have a better future for themselves, their families and their communities. I am committed to delivering long-term, sustainable solutions to poverty across Northern Ireland. The Executive's anti-poverty strategy identifies work as one of the most effective ways out of poverty for working-age people.”
“As is the case with the programme that I am launching today, the previous schemes were open to the public sector, the private sector and the community and voluntary sector, and there are many good news stories. Let me share a couple. A 16-year-old who was not in education, employment or training was placed in a local GP surgery, supporting the team in an administrative role. She tells us that JobStart helped her find a job that she truly loves. It uncovered skills and qualities that she did not know that she had and gave her the confidence to come out of her shell. She said that the belief that was shown in her gave her hope in herself. Her employer was so impressed by her performance that she secured a permanent role on the team two months before her placement was due to end. Another participant was a new mother.”
“Many participants did not have the confidence to find employment on their own; indeed, the participants who are now working in my Department told me that they thought that they would never get a job in the Civil Service. When those young people arrived, they struggled to make eye contact with anyone, and their confidence was low. What a difference a training plan, a patient line manager and a supportive team make. My Department recruited nine young people at the end of the first JobStart scheme. Two years later, they are thriving in their roles. Their confidence levels are through the roof. One has already secured a promotion.”
“It will widen access to all working-age benefit claimants and will include more flexible options to respond to the needs of people who have additional barriers. I have had the pleasure of meeting participants from previous schemes, and they have told me how that support has changed their lives. Many had low confidence, no experience or multiple barriers to employment, yet employers across Northern Ireland were willing to give them a chance. Their faith in those participants has paid off: 96% of previous employers were satisfied with the scheme, and many have found excellent employees.”
“I want to tackle the full range of issues of unemployment and inactivity, and I want to break down those barriers to employment. That is why, today, I am also announcing a £12·4 million investment in employment support, the biggest single programme that my Department will deliver, in addition to existing employability provisions across my Department. That programme is JobStart, Creating Work Opportunities. The new employment scheme is wider-ranging than ever before. It will provide flexible, responsive support to those who need extra help to enter or re-enter the labour market. <BR /> <BR />The scheme will build on the successes of previous JobStart programmes, but it will go further.”
“On 2 June, I made a statement to the Assembly regarding my Department's 2025-26 budget allocation. In that statement, I conveyed my desire to increase opportunities and life chances for everyone in Northern Ireland and announced my intent to invest in a multimillion-pound employment programme that would support all age groups and help to tackle the barriers to economic activity. For too long, we have had the highest rates of economic inactivity across the UK. Too many of our citizens of working age are not able to enjoy the benefits of fulfilling, quality employment. <BR /> <BR />Earlier today, I launched a public consultation on an ambitious 10-year disability and work strategy, and I encourage responses to that. However, that is not all that I am doing.”
“I would love my successor in five years' time to come along and say, "The strategy has been such a success that we are now going to increase the target and close the disability employment gap even more". As I said, I would therefore welcome the Member's assistance in lobbying my Executive colleagues.”
“I completely agree with the Member that this is not just for the Department for Communities to do. Rather, it is a cross-departmental, cross-Executive strategy. We need to make sure that everybody buys into it and that everybody is prepared to work together. I am doing my part. I have set aside funding for the strategy. I have bid for more, and I continue to do what I can. I would be more than happy to get the Member's support to lobby my Executive colleagues to make sure that they take forward, and take seriously, the actions to which they have committed themselves. <BR /> <BR />We have set a target. I do not want just to meet that target.”
“That will form part of the wider disability strategy, but I encourage the Member and anyone else who is interested to respond to the consultation on the disability and work strategy and make their views known so that we can see how those views can be incorporated, because what is the point in people having a job to go to if they cannot get to it? We therefore want to make sure that there is a focus on that as well.”
“The Member is absolutely right to raise that issue. Together, we recently met South Antrim Community Transport and saw at first hand the important work that it is doing in our constituency. Further work on accessible transport will be done, because, in a number of weeks, I will be bringing out the disability strategy, which will focus more widely on transport and accessibility issues. I am keen to break down barriers to disabled people getting into employment. Transport is rightly one such issue that we need to address.”
“We have therefore accurately captured the views of disabled people locally to ensure that their issues are understood and, importantly, that actions are targeted and effective. That is why it is so important that we will have a disability and work council, as it will have disabled people on it. It will also have a disabled person as its chair. The council will give disabled people a real insight into what is happening and real controls over governance.”
“I am grateful to the Member for her question and for the really important work that she has been doing for many years on behalf of people who have autism. It is important that the issues be raised and understood. <BR /> <BR />To understand the issues with disability and work, we need to talk to others. We need to hear from those who are at the coalface: employers and those who have lived experience of disability. <BR /> <BR />The strategy was co-produced with a diverse range of over 100 partners, from central and local government, the community and voluntary sector, employers and their representative bodies, statutory bodies such as the Equality Commission, and those with lived experience of disability, both individuals and organisations.”
“Let us break those down and open up a reservoir of talent and potential. That is what I am determined to do.”
“I met some of those who were helped through the JobStart scheme, including one individual who had autism and felt that the workplace was never going to be for him because he would never be able to fit in. However, he got a job working in the Civil Service in data input, and it was perfect for him. He loves it, and he told me how proud he was that he was able to get a job and to sustain employment. He said how proud his parents were that he had been able to do that. That is genuinely life-changing, and I am delighted that the Northern Ireland Civil Service is able to create such opportunities. There are so many people who have potential, talent and ability, but barriers — sometimes very small barriers — stop them getting into employment. I do not want that to be the case.”
“Absolutely. We have to lead by example, and it would be wrong of us, as an Executive, to ask employers to do something that we are not prepared to do ourselves. We have taken the lead on that. The Department of Finance has been involved in the development of the strategy, and, as an employer, it has set out its five-year people strategy that will ensure initiatives around guaranteed interview schemes, reasonable adjustment policies and training. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted that, through the Department for Communities' JobStart programme, we have been able to support people into employment, including supporting people into the Northern Ireland Civil Service. I think that I have told this story before, but it is one of the things that have stayed with me most during my time in the Department.”
“I often say that giving money to the Department for Communities can help all of the other Ministers in the Executive because of the positive impacts that we can have on people's lives early on. Getting into solid, sustained employment is a good way to help people with some of the mental health issues that they face, so I stand ready to do whatever I can and to work with whomever I need to work with to improve outcomes for people in Northern Ireland.”
“Of course, all of those issues intersect. Improving people's mental health and well-being is really important, and I may have another announcement for the Member later today, if he would like to come back to the Chamber, where I will be able to give more information. For me, this is about priorities, and it is a priority for me to make sure that we can support and help people. That will require funding, and I am stepping up to the plate on that. I am prepared to get the funding that is necessary, and I am prepared to make the case to Executive colleagues and to the Treasury that this is an investment on which we will get a huge return and where we can prevent some of the other problems that people face.”
“Obviously, we want the disability and work council to be as effective as possible, which is why we will ensure that it has access to the people and information that it needs to make the necessary recommendations. This is new for us and has been widely welcomed, so I want it to be a success. We will do everything that we need to do in that regard. <BR /> <BR />On the Member's other question, I hope that we do not get into that circumstance, because, even if one or two things do not work, I would like to think that we will be able to find the help that individuals need. That is why it will be so tailored in the first instance, so that we are not going down the wrong path or doing something that does not work. It is about putting in the work early on to make sure that it is a success for all who need help.”
“That is why we now have one of the most comprehensive strategies for disabled people that we have ever had. I will follow that up shortly with the wider disability strategy.”
“I would like to have seen the strategy launched much earlier, but I had to deal with the situation that I found when I came into the Department. I made it a priority to progress the strategy. Since I have been in office, we have had to allow the time to gather evidence, co-produce actions and quality-review its content. Actions are owned by multiple Departments as well, so I have had to ensure that we had Executive buy-in and support for future funding bids. I reassure the Member that we have got to this stage because I made it a priority. I wanted to ensure that we delivered it because I know the change that we can make and the real impact that we can have on people's lives. The House and the Executive get a lot of criticism for things that we do not do. I did not want that to be the case in this mandate.”
“I will certainly not be found wanting when it comes to putting in that investment from my budget and baseline. I hope that Executive colleagues will help me out in that.”
“If some of that money can be diverted into something that is more beneficial and brings greater bang for the buck, I am happy to look at that as well, because we have an opportunity here to make a real difference. <BR /> <BR />The strategy will be part of conversations that I have with counterparts in the UK Government, because, as is the case with what I am doing on welfare fraud and error, we often do the work and Treasury gets the benefit from that. It could be the same with this strategy: we can put in the investment and get more people into work, but the primary beneficiary of that in financial terms will be the Treasury. There should be sharing of that benefit so that we can reinvest it here and ensure that we help more people. That is what I intend to do.”
“Absolutely. I will certainly submit bids, because we need to ensure that we have sufficient investment in it. By the way, it is investment: we will get a return on it. We will get a return because money will then not be spent on benefits and welfare and instead be spent on increased provision for those who are in employment. It is really important that we see that money as an investment. I certainly intend to put additional resource where it needs to be. I hope that Executive colleagues will follow suit and ensure that they put in the money that needs to go into it. Of course, we already spend tens if not hundreds of millions of pounds in the area.”
“It is important that it is in place, because I genuinely want to make sure that we monitor progress, that people are held to account, that failings are identified and that improvements can be suggested. I look forward to that being in place almost immediately following the launch of the final strategy, subject to consultation and Executive approval. It is important that we have oversight if for no other reason than we want to monitor progress so that we can change that target of 50,000 if needs be.”
“I am grateful to the Member for raising that point, because it is important that we have that in place. It is one of the first of its kind, and it is the first time that we have done something like this in Northern Ireland.”
“It is ambitious, and we should all want to work together to bring Northern Ireland up to where the rest of the UK is.”
“There are a number of historical reasons for that, which are to do with some of the issues that we have relating to economic inactivity, poverty, social exclusion and health and well-being. That is why we are where we are. We need to bridge the gap, and that is exactly what the strategy aims to do by getting an additional 50,000 people into employment over the next 10 years. I would like it to be the best in the UK. We will certainly do everything that we can to achieve that, and we will change it if needs be. Fifty thousand more people into employment in the next 10 years is an ambitious target to start off with. To put that into context, that is the same as the number of people who are employed in the Northern Ireland Civil Service and the Belfast Health and Social Care Trust combined.”
“The intent of the sign language legislation is to ensure that there is greater access to public services in particular, and a better understanding of sign language. You will certainly see some interconnectedness with this. The Member will be aware that I am still considering next steps on what was called the sexual orientation strategy and the gender equality strategy. I will have further meetings about those this week and hope to be in a position to make an announcement soon.”
“Members can see in the draft strategy, and will see in the action plans to follow, that there will be significant cross-departmental working to tackle some of the challenges that we face.”
“That is the whole point of bringing forward the strategy: it is not a DFC strategy but a cross-departmental strategy. Departments have fed into the process to make sure that we work together. When the Member sees and, I hope, responds to the consultation on the strategy, she will see that there are some actions that we will be taking collectively with other Departments; other Departments will be doing things individually as well. There is significant work for the Department for the Economy to do. That can be seen throughout the document and particularly in relation to skills. I hope that this will just be the start of Departments working more closely together. <BR /> <BR />These strategies matter. We saw that with the housing supply strategy, which led to an increased focus on developing relationships. The same needs to happen here.”
“It will be beneficial for the individuals concerned, but it will also be beneficial for the employers that open themselves to another pool of talent, and, of course, it will be better for society as a whole.”