Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
The complete record
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“First, I did not bring the co-design group to an end: it came to an end. The work had been completed, and I have met the group since. <BR /> <BR />To answer the second question, I refer the Member to the answer I gave some moments ago. The co-design group raised a number of issues.”
“The key question for me when it comes to my support for any such measures will be the difference that they make and whether they are the best use of the resources that we have.”
“The reason why I have brought forward an anti-poverty strategy and not a separate child poverty strategy is that I do not think that you can separate the two. The impact of poverty on families is not unique to children. It is about family incomes and making sure that we do everything we can to raise the incomes and lower the costs for families as a whole. Free school meals is one element of that, but I go back to looking at the overall picture and the actions that we can take with the money that is available that will give the best value for money. Free school meals is one of those actions. Obviously, it is up to the Finance Minister, the Education Minister and other Executive colleagues to discuss the matter.”
“Other Ministers would have had the opportunity to say, "This is missing. We should add this. We should allocation more funding here as well.". I have the letters from all my Executive colleagues who responded. Obviously, they are confidential, but clearly there was support for the strategy, or it would not have gone out for public consultation. <BR /> <BR />The Department for Communities cannot tackle or solve poverty by itself. The Executive cannot tackle or solve poverty by themselves either, but we all need to work together, and that is why we have a joined-up approach where there is ample opportunity for feed-in from other Departments.”
“I am happy to tell the House again that this is a Department of delivery under the DUP. We are getting things done. We have brought forward the strategy when no one else did before. We have brought forward a housing supply strategy when no one else did before, and we got housing as a Programme for Government commitment after years of others asking for it, so I am more than happy to be making progress in this area. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right to highlight the fact that not only were other Ministers asked for their input but they nominated officials to a working group. They were tasked specifically with bringing forward proposals, so, if there are issues not in the document, there should be questions to other Ministers about why that is, because everybody had the opportunity. It was before the Executive for six weeks.”
“That was the whole point of engaging with Departments beforehand to ask, "What are you doing, what are you going to continue to do, and what new things can you do?". That is why I think that we have a realistic set of proposals that, over time, Ministers can add to. This will be agile and flexible. I hope, therefore, that Ministers will find a budget if additional budget is needed and if it is available. I encourage Ministers to speak to the Finance Minister. I encourage the Member to speak to the Finance Minister as well, because I will happily welcome any additional resource that can be committed to help to tackle poverty. I am sure that she will engage with her colleague the Finance Minister on that.”
“It is absolutely right that we are held to account on the strategy. We are out to consultation right now, and the Member will see, in the consultation document, the governance structures that will be around the strategy and the monitoring that will be in place. We intend to have an anti-poverty strategy board that will be responsible for delivery under the strategy's three pillars. We will consider how those who are facing these issues and the organisations that support them will be involved in that. That is part of the consultation process so that people can give their views.”
“No, that is fair enough. <BR /> <BR />That is part of the consultation process, so I would like to hear from people what they would like included and how that would tie in with Executive priorities and affordability.”
“Of course, I will always report to the Committee on the issues, and we will have monitoring in place. Again, I encourage people to read the entirety of the document and to recognise and consider the fact that a more detailed action plan will be coming later. <BR /> <BR />I would emphasise that there is a consultation process. I have heard many voices over recent weeks say, "There's not enough in here". What I am not hearing much about is what people would like to see. Whenever I met groups and individuals, I did not hear specific actions that people would like to see in place. That is the part of the consultation —”
“We have the benefit of seeing what has taken place and what has worked in Scotland. The first thing that we have to recognise is that we live in a time of constrained budgets, so we have to make sure that we put the resources that we have into the areas that will make the most difference. We have not seen that in Scotland. Over the last number of years, Scotland has been spending £471 million every year on the child payment: that has hardly moved the needle on child poverty. That is why we have taken the approach of helping people who are facing poverty right now but also trying to help people not to fall into poverty in the first place. That is why it is so important that we tackle the root causes of poverty, and that is what I will focus on.”
“The Member's colleagues in other Departments will bring forward new actions. I think that people have jumped on to a notion that there is nothing new in this. If you read the document, you will see the new actions that are there, but, of course, the full action plan will follow as well. It is easy to be critical and find things that, you may believe, are disagreeable, but we should at least base our comments on facts and what will actually be in the strategy, which the Member and others have seen.”
“Of course I will listen to the consultation. That is the whole point of it. <BR /> <BR />I will pick up on a couple of issues that the Member raised, the first of which is targets. No, there are no targets on it, because, as I have said before, targets will come later in the action plan, and monitoring will come at that stage as well. It is simply not the case that these are actions that we have already taken, but we will, of course, continue what we are doing that is working. We were not going to wait until the development of an anti-poverty strategy before we brought in some of the measures that will make a difference. <BR /> <BR />As I have just said, we will bring in more actions. For example, I am bringing forward a fuel poverty strategy and new employment programmes.”
“The co-design group asked that mitigation payments be extended: the Executive agreed and extended that package. The co-design group asked us to continue to pressure the UK Government on the pensions triple lock: we agreed. The co-design group highlighted the need for a childcare strategy: we agreed. The co-design group raised issues of low pay and workers' rights, and the Department for the Economy is addressing that issue. The co-design group highlighted housing as an issue, and the Member knows only too well the work that I am doing and will continue to do in that area. The co-design group asked that we maximise and improve access to benefits. We are doing all those things and much more.”
“No, absolutely not, and the Member is wrong in every point that he has made. We waited for the document for 17 years, and, after 17 months in office, I have been able to bring it forward. <BR /> <BR />Let me address one of the issues that the Member raised. He said that the co-design group's input is on the cutting-room floor: that is absolute nonsense. The co-design group raised period poverty as an issue, and we have tackled that in the document. The co-design group identified the need to address fuel poverty, which we will do as part of the strategy. The co-design group identified the need to make school attendance cost-neutral, and Paul Givan is taking forward work to do just that: the RAISE programme will raise achievement to reduce educational disadvantage, and legislation is being worked on to ensure affordable school uniforms.”
“We are talking about people, their well-being, their health and their future. That is why we need a strategy that will help us to make progress in tackling one of the most pressing issues that we face. Therefore, I commend the statement to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />In closing, let me say that I recognise and understand the concern that the absence of this document has had for many people for many years. Today, I am taking action and doing something about that, not because I want to publish a document to simply tick a box but because I want us to have a joined-up, coordinated plan to tackle poverty. Why? It is because I see poverty every day. I witness it in the lives of people in East Antrim, who I am privileged to represent, and beyond, and we should want to make them better. I mean the pensioner struggling with rising heating costs; the mother juggling the costs of school uniforms and sports gear with all the other essentials; the father not knowing how he will afford yet another increase in rent; and the child whose ambitions and potential are not fully realised.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also highlight the fact that, in order to allow people time to consider and respond, we are going beyond the normal eight- and 12-week time frames for public consultation. I have asked officials to allow a 14-week period of consultation. It will open today and continue until mid-September. The public consultation on the draft anti-poverty strategy is a significant step forward in how the Executive address the problem of socio-economic disadvantage in our society. Final publication later in the year will not mark the end of the cooperation and coordination between Departments that has been a feature of the strategy's development. Instead, it will mark the starting point for all Departments to move to implementation with commitment and a focus on delivery.”
“Rather, it will require government, public bodies, voluntary and community organisations, communities, families and individuals all working together to make a meaningful and lasting change to our society. That is why this statement is so important. The public consultation provides an opportunity for all areas of society to comment on the draft anti-poverty strategy and highlight any areas that they feel could be strengthened further. We are keen to hear new ideas or innovative approaches on how we should take this work forward. The consultation will be a significant engagement with society, and we will treat all contributions to it seriously and thoughtfully.”
“For example, the Minister of Education has committed to taking forward legislation on ensuring that school uniforms are affordable, and he has also agreed that a budget of £23 million will be available in 2025-26 to provide a 15% childcare subsidy for working parents who are eligible for tax-free childcare. I will also continue to engage with colleagues in Westminster to address issues around welfare reform and lobbying for the repeal of the two-child limit. That is not to say that the strategy is more of the same. All that work now sits, for the first time, in an integrated framework, allowing us as an Executive to effectively monitor, coordinate and deliver real-world impacts. <BR /> <BR />Poverty is not a problem that the Executive can solve in isolation.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department has also helped and supported those who most need assistance, whether that is by extending welfare mitigations, getting more people signed up to the benefits that they deserve through the Make the Call service or improving affordable housing availability with the delivery of the housing supply strategy. That work will keep moving forward. In my Department, I have committed to a range of new actions in the strategy. Those include the delivery of a fuel poverty strategy and developing a new People and Place strategic framework. Other colleagues are taking similar steps.”
“Even in the absence of a strategy, my Executive colleagues and I have taken forward work that is aimed at helping those who are suffering as a result of socio-economic disadvantage. While some of our critics have spent their time naysaying and critiquing, we have been delivering. That was recognised in the Executive's Programme for Government (PFG), which included a range of actions that are designed to help some of the most disadvantaged in our society, by, for example, developing a growing and competitive economy and cutting health waiting times.”
“The three pillars are: aiming to minimise the risk of people falling into poverty; helping to minimise the impacts of poverty on people's lives; and working with people to help them to exit poverty. That approach is an important step forward, and it is the right one to take, given the scale of the problem that we face. It is only through addressing those areas together that we will be able to tackle poverty in a manner that allows for continual improvement. We have also recognised the cyclical nature of poverty. For example, poor health or educational outcomes can be the impacts and the causes of poverty. <BR /> <BR />The publication of the strategy will not mark the finish of the Executive's work on tackling poverty. Rather, it marks the next important step in an ongoing process.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our approach does not only look at helping to raise people's incomes in the short term, important though that is. It is equally essential that we identify and address the root causes of poverty and support people to address some of the key issues in their lives. For example, it is about ensuring that they have the opportunity to achieve in education and supporting them to address physical and mental health issues and access a range of opportunities to find well-paid and meaningful employment. For that reason, our agreed anti-poverty strategy focuses on three key pillars on which we must focus our collective efforts if we want to see meaningful change.”
“For me, it was essential that we developed a strategy that was not only practical but sustainable and deliverable. Rather than making promises that could not be kept, my Executive colleagues and I have worked to develop a strategy that we will be able to make progress against and that will make a difference to people's lives. The strategy is the culmination of considerable hard work, collaboration and co-design. I thank all those stakeholders, particularly the members of the anti-poverty co-design group, who worked with my Department to provide their input. We often hear about the silo approach in government, but I know that Ministers and officials across Departments have worked together on the draft in a spirit of cooperation and collective ownership.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish to update the Assembly on the Executive's draft anti-poverty strategy. For too long, there has been no joined-up, cross-departmental approach to tackling the problem of poverty in our society. That will soon change. I am pleased to announce that, following the Executive's agreement on a draft version of the anti-poverty strategy, today will see the launch of a public consultation to allow the public the opportunity to comment on the plans that we have developed. <BR /> <BR />When I took office, I made it clear that one of my priorities was to tackle poverty. After a legacy of delay in taking that work forward, I wanted to work at pace to develop a strategy that could help to make a meaningful difference to those who are experiencing socio-economic disadvantage in our society.”
“There appears to be consensus from all around the Assembly. I am grateful for that, and I commend the regulations to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />Provided that they have not already received a compensation payment from another source, people who suffer from that awful disease are therefore eligible for a payment regardless of whether they were employees, self employed or, indeed, they had never worked, which may well be the case for family members who contracted the disease through secondary exposure, for example by cleaning asbestos-covered clothes. <BR /> <BR />For 2025-26, the amount payable to a person aged 37 or under at diagnosis, for example, has been increased from £114,210 to £116,152, which is the same as the maximum that can be paid under the 1979 scheme. The regulations ensure that the compensation provided under the scheme maintains its value relative to inflation. I am sure that all Members will warmly welcome the provisions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Under the scheme, those who have been exposed to asbestos can claim a lump sum payment if they are not entitled to payment under the Pneumoconiosis, etc., (Workers' Compensation) (Northern Ireland) Order 1979, known as the 1979 scheme, and do not otherwise have a civil claim. The scheme provides financial help to persons diagnosed with that horrible disease or, if the person has died, to their dependants, within weeks of diagnosis and without the need to establish an occupational link or, indeed, any causative link.”
“The regulations are part of the annual uprating package and increase the lump sum compensation that is payable by the scheme under the Mesothelioma, etc., Act (Northern Ireland) 2008. Unlike the main benefits uprating order, there is no explicit requirement in the regulations to review the level of payments under the scheme each year. However, the regulations have increased the amounts payable by the scheme in line with the rate of inflation. Those amounts have been increased by 1·7% for 2025-26, which mirrors the percentage increase in industrial injuries benefits in the main uprating order.”
“I appreciate the support from across the House.”
“As a result of the 2025 uprating package, approximately £264 million more will be paid out, by my Department, to people in Northern Ireland who are on social security benefits and pensions. <BR /> <BR />I would therefore welcome Members' support for the uprating order and the consequential uprating regulations, so that people in Northern Ireland continue to receive the increased rates.”
“My Department has no power to increase the amounts of benefits by a different or greater amount than that in the annual uprating Order. The uprating order is the main statutory rule to provide for the increase in benefit rates, but some technical provisions for the annual uprating have to be made by regulations, and so they cannot be included in that order. <BR /> <BR />This debate also encompasses the Social Security Benefits Up-rating Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2025, which make technical provisions required for the accurate implementation of the increased rates. The regulations are made as a consequence of the uprating order and also include an increase to the personal expenses allowance for residents in care homes and the earnings limit on carer's allowance.”
“Where the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has discretion to increase rates of other benefits, such as working-age benefits, those have traditionally been uprated by the growth in prices — CPI. For 2025-26, the personal or standard allowances — universal credit, income support, housing benefit, jobseeker's allowance and employment and support allowance — have been uprated by 1·7%, as have income-related benefits and additions, the savings credit maximum amount in pension credit and statutory payments, such as statutory sick pay. The standard minimum guarantee in pension credit has increased by 4·1%, in line with state pensions. <BR /> <BR />When the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions makes an uprating Order in Great Britain, my Department is empowered to make a corresponding order for Northern Ireland.”
“That generally relates to benefits that contribute to extra costs arising as a result of a disability or health condition. <BR /> <BR />In addition to the commitment to the triple lock, the package continues to apply to the basic state pension and the new state pension. Those pension payments are increased in line with the highest of the growth in earnings, the growth in prices or 2·5%. The growth in earnings is measured by the increase in average weekly earnings in the year, up to May to July 2024. The UK Government's commitment to the triple lock for the basic state pension and the new state pension means that, for 2025-26, those have been uprated by 4·1%.”
“The uprating package usually increases the rates of social security benefits, pensions and lump-sum payments each year in line with inflation. It begins at the beginning of the tax year. These two rules came into operation in April 2025. I seek the Assembly's approval of the two rules, which form part of the main uprating package for 2025-26. <BR /> <BR />The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is required to undertake an annual review of the rates of benefits in relation to the general level of prices. The percentage increase is determined by the CPI rate in the 12 months up to the previous September. The CPI indicated a positive growth of 1·7% for the period up to end of September 2024. For the 2025 uprating package, that means that benefits linked to prices have been increased by 1·7%.”
“I am happy to confirm to the Member that I am not going anywhere. I have a job to do, and I have been getting on with that job. I look forward to continuing to deliver for people across Northern Ireland.”
“As the Member behind me said, you have heard about the motions that have been raised and the issues that have been brought forward. That is why I have taken action and am trying to increase supply. Ultimately, however, many of the problems that we are talking about come from UK Government policy, so perhaps the Member will have a word with his friends in the Labour Party.”
“Yes, those issues have been raised with me.”
“Neither. The Member is the wrong in how he has characterised it, and not for the first time. In most of his comments on this issue and others, he is wrong. As I have said, I stand by what I said and what I was trying to do in my post. I do not need to take any lectures from Mr Carroll on how I can best serve my constituents in East Antrim and the people across Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for his kind words about the Housing Executive staff, who do a brilliant job in very difficult circumstances. I will certainly pass those on. I am grateful to him for that. <BR /> <BR />In answer to the Member's other question, unfortunately, my experience of this place makes me think that he will be disappointed when it comes to questions such as those that he raised being put to others, because the focus for many in the House will continue to be on political point-scoring more than on anything else such as getting clarification or real answers.”
“The Member is absolutely right. The focus at the end of last week was not where it should have been. The focus should have been on those who were responsible for the violence and caused the damage that we witnessed in Portadown, Ballymena and Larne. I will say it again: there were too many people in the House who could not help themselves; they could not wait to score some points. Unfortunately, that happened not only over the course of the past few days; it continues to happen this week.”
“There is no excuse whatsoever for violence in any of our communities, so let us make sure that we have an honest debate. That means dispelling some of the myths that exist out there and providing clarification. However, we should not hide anything from people, either, or belittle their concerns.”
“Absolutely not. In fact, it is attitudes like that of Mr McNulty that are the problem. He refuses to acknowledge that legitimate concerns exist. Some Members hate the phrase "legitimate concerns", but they exist. Now, let me be clear: that is never a justification for violence. However, we need to listen to people. One of the problems that we face in communities is that people feel that they are not being listened to. They raise concerns about housing, such as what Mears Group is doing in communities across Northern Ireland and the impact that that is having on the cost of rent and the availability of properties in the private rented sector. People such as Mr McNulty continually belittle the concerns of other people. It is not the rhetoric from this side of the House that is causing a problem.”
“He knew that it wasn't being used for that purpose, but he failed to clarify that". <BR /> <BR />I say this to Mr Tennyson: I see exactly what you are doing. You are trying to score political points. The people who have been in contact with me over the past 72 hours do not believe you.”
“The Member is saying that I highlighted the location. I highlighted the fact that it was a location but that it was not any more. I heard about things that were going on in my constituency; people told me, "There are people who are heading down here because so-and-so is being held" or "because more is going to happen here". I tried to calm the situation by saying, "No, you're wrong. That's not what is going to happen. Your energies should not be there". That is absolutely the right thing to do. I guarantee you that, if I had not made public comment, many people in the media and many Members around the House would have said, "Where was the leadership from Gordon Lyons? He knew that it was no longer being used for that purpose, but he failed to put anything on the record.”
“Here is Mr Tennyson's problem: he starts by saying, "The truth is" and then follows it up with anything but the truth. That is the problem. He tries to present his version of events as fact when it is wrong. There was nobody in the leisure centre at that time. That is why I was highlighting the fact that nobody was there. I was saying that nobody —”
“I have not seen the meeting — I do not watch the Communities Committee meetings — but I have been told that the Committee was quick to do that. Perhaps we could all take a little bit of time and consider the facts rather than rush to score political points.”
“I have had a private conversation with the Secretary of State, and, out of respect, I will keep that private. A number of comments were made last week by several individuals, and, by the way, some comments were not just wrong but offensive and, in many cases, defamatory. I put that on the record, and I put it out as a warning to some people, if they would like to take some action in the short to medium term on it. <BR /> <BR />I wish that others had taken more time to consider all the facts before rushing to judgement. I make that point to the Communities Committee in particular. I have been told that, within minutes of convening and without taking evidence from me or anybody else, the Committee decided to put through a motion of no confidence.”
“Let me make it clear that the Housing Executive will make decisions that are based on the information that there is locally about the impacts that those things are likely to have. It often works in coordination with the police. It is very rare that anybody would want or ask me to intervene directly in matters that are the direct responsibility of the Housing Executive. I would have liked to see more action being taken a number of times on issues, but, ultimately, the Housing Executive often works in very difficult circumstances in difficult areas where there are lots of issues at play. Let me make it very clear that I want to make sure that we have safe, welcoming communities and that there is no room for racism or sectarianism in society.”
“That is a change in position, because there were those in the media and political parties who were saying that I had no right to be informed. Now, here we go again — another change. They are now accepting that I should have the right to be informed. Yes, when emergency protocols are put in place, it is right that we know what is going on so that we can input into it because we care about the safety of individuals and the environment in which we find ourselves and about how things were whipped up and taken out of proportion and out of control. We want to make sure that we have the information. I will be very clear about this: there are operational matters for the Housing Executive, the police and councils — I am not taking away from that; that is their role and job — but there is a responsibility for elected representatives to be informed.”