Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“It is the case that we should want to support and link up with those who have a track record of making a real difference. That is why it is so important that the councils can partner with those fantastic organisations and, as I say, make a difference to people's lives.”
“Absolutely. I have seen at first hand the work of Christians Against Poverty in my constituency, and I am sure that others have had similar experiences. I was delighted to be at a celebration event recently in my constituency. Christians Against Poverty celebrated 10 years of helping people. If I may, I will take a moment to give a shout-out to some people in my constituency. Wendy and Sharon in Christians Against Poverty in Larne do a fantastic job of intervening, helping and changing lives. I do not say that lightly. The people who are affected find themselves at the lowest point in their life, and we have fantastic organisations that come in, help and truly transform the situation in which those people have found themselves.”
“I agree with what, I think, is the Member's point, which is that we do not want people to be in conflict or competition with one another. The measures are intended to be complementary, and I hope that that continues. Certainly, the funding that is available currently for those other organisations will continue to be there. However, I thought that this was a useful way to use the resources and make sure that alternatives are available here, as well as, perhaps, reaching further than those currently established. That is what, I hope, will happen.”
“They can try to ignore the problems, but we need to tackle them head on and get in there early to help people, because that is how we will make a difference in the longer term. I encourage Members to do that with all our constituents.”
“I am certainly happy to see what the councils propose and what we can do centrally on promotion. Some of that can be done cheaply on our social media channels, for example. There is an expectation that part of the funding will be used to promote the services that are available. That is another reason why it is good that we are bringing in the councils, which will have their own reach, and the other organisations that are already doing some of the work. They will be in a position to promote it as well. <BR /> <BR />I hope that Members will also take the opportunity to promote the services that are available. Unfortunately, people can often bury their heads in the sand on this issue.”
“That is another question that I anticipated. The funding is broken down as it is simply because I do not think that population alone takes account of the need that exists. The Member will understand that with regard to his constituency. Population is obviously important, but we have also taken into consideration deprivation and the number of adults who were estimated to be in need of debt advice. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to confirm that the sum that will be allocated to Belfast City Council for the service is £248,253.48.”
“I will remember as many as I can. <BR /> <BR />The whole point of doing this is that it will not be a one-size-fits-all approach. If it were, we would not need to send the service out to local councils or bring in their support. The whole point is that the service can be flexible, because the needs in, for example, Mid and East Antrim might be very different from those in Fermanagh, Omagh, Belfast or wherever. Flexibility will be built in. Councils can come up with ideas and proposals, and, as long as they fit in with what I outlined to Sian Mulholland, they will be acceptable. We want to work with people on this to make sure that we make the most difference in people's lives. That will be different depending on the area. <BR /> <BR />In the Member's constituency, I can confirm that the sum will be £114,548.04.”
“I have not had any direct conversations with the Minister of Education on that, but discussions take place at official level. I am a big supporter of making sure that our young people are financially literate to make sure that they are aware of the perils of debt and have an understanding of spending. I am more than happy to continue that ongoing collaboration. If an intervention is needed at ministerial level between Minister Givan and me, I will be happy to do that.”
“They will need to include an aspect of face-to-face or in-person delivery, which is very important, and be able to share learning to inform future approaches. The projects also need to be delivered by 31 March 2026.”
“The calculation came about following an analysis of population, deprivation and adults in need. That is how the funding formula was reached. Forty per cent is based on population, 40% is based on deprivation, using the income deprivation model, and the remaining 20% is based on the results of the adults in need of debt advice survey. That is why we have different calculations for different councils. There will, of course, be criteria for the fund. There will be a requirement to deliver holistic advice in community-accessible settings such as health centres, education establishments or churches. The organisations will need to be part of a collaborative partnership and demonstrate improved outcomes for the people who access the service.”
“I am grateful to the Member for acknowledging that this is about getting into every part of Northern Ireland and bringing the advice to where people are. That is why it is so important to test the model to see whether it could happen in the future. Obviously, we only have the funding until 2026, but it is useful for us to consider whether such a model would be worth taking forward when that time comes and when we can re-evaluate the resources that we have. <BR /> <BR />On resources, I expected the Member to ask about her constituency because she always asks about it. I am happy to announce that Fermanagh and Omagh District Council will receive £86,802·84 and that Mid Ulster District will receive £105,828·12.”
“That is why I am getting those providers involved. Of course, we will want to test the model and make sure that the funding is being spent well.”
“Yes. As the Member will expect, I spoke to councils to make sure that there was an agreement in principle before we made the announcement, and that certainly is the case. There is a willingness to do it. <BR /> <BR />One of the reasons that we are doing it is to get evidence on whether the model can be taken forward in the future. Of course, we will analyse it and see what is able to be delivered. It is important that we take this opportunity to look at the other providers that are out there. For me, it is really important that we get into all parts of Northern Ireland and right into the heart of the community — health, education and church settings — to ensure that debt advice is available in the local areas that people find themselves in, because we have a problem with the uptake of that advice.”
“It should not be taken as a slight on anyone else. I have always said that the Department needs to try new and innovative ways of making a difference. I believe that we will do that through the allocation of the funding in this way.”
“Always negativity from Mr McCrossan. First, it is a good news story because additional funding is going to be made available. Secondly, it is time-limited, because it is mostly due to a miscalculation of funds that the extra resource is available. However, I am frequently told by Members about the importance of regional balance and of making sure that we spread our resources right across Northern Ireland. Therefore, I am trying something new. I am using the opportunity from the miscalculation and the additional funding that has become available to tie in the important work of councils, but, even more importantly, the work of those other organisations that are already working at the coalface. We have an opportunity to test whether there are additional models for the future. I believe that it is good news and something to be welcomed.”
“By working closely with councils and community organisations, we can ensure that those who face financial difficulties are able to access the support that they need when they need it. <BR /> <BR />The integrated advice partnership fund is an opportunity to ensure that debt advice is more accessible and effective than ever before. It represents another step in our efforts to provide meaningful and much-needed support to those faced with debt. I look forward to seeing the projects that will be delivered by the fund; testing different ways of working; informing future advice delivery; and, most importantly, making a difference in the lives of people right across Northern Ireland.”
“Councils are at the coalface of the community and do a fantastic job of providing front-line services to our people. Therefore, I have allowed each council flexibility in how it chooses to use the funding within the objectives that will be set by my Department. Projects will be required to demonstrate partnership working and the delivery of debt advice in community settings, including face-to-face provision. By enabling organisations to work together, we can draw on their combined expertise to deliver tailored, responsive and targeted debt advice. <BR /> <BR />The new fund reflects my commitment to using every pound to its best effect. I want to make support available to people in every corner of Northern Ireland.”
“The new fund will complement my Department's existing £6·6 million of annual regional and local advice funding, which goes out to a range of partners, including Advice NI and community advice providers. The £1·3 million fund will be delivered in partnership with all 11 councils in Northern Ireland to improve the uptake of free, high-quality debt advice in accessible locations. It will support early intervention and the development of local solutions. <BR /> <BR />Our debt landscape is evolving, and advice providers are dealing with increasingly complex cases. Local organisations that are close to the communities that they serve are best placed to meet need. Therefore, I will provide the funding to local councils, who will work with community advice providers and community organisations, such as Christians Against Poverty.”
“Therefore, I am pleased to announce the launch of the integrated advice partnership fund.”
“Alongside that funding initiative, the Department recently increased the number of debt advisers working for the Northern Ireland debt advice service from 30 to 34·5 in recognition of the increasingly complex debt landscape. <BR /> <BR />Due to an additional HMRC allocation and a historical miscalculation of the debt levy, Northern Ireland has an additional £1·3 million to spend between now and March 2026. Today, I am pleased to announce that I will use that money to try something new. I do not believe that the Executive or my Department have all the answers or that we have a monopoly on expertise in this area. Local government has a role to play in the provision of some of the services. Many local organisations already play an important role in the area and can help us to deliver the services that people need.”
“<BR /> <BR />Debt advice in Northern Ireland is funded by a Treasury levy on the financial services industry that is ring-fenced for the provision of free debt advice services. His Majesty's Treasury allocated £2·08 million to fund debt advice services in Northern Ireland in 2024-25. The funding, allocated annually by Treasury, is calculated using a formula based on population and levels of need for debt advice as calculated by the Money and Pensions Service. The Northern Ireland debt advice service is managed by Advice NI via a grant agreement that is worth £1·53 million in 2024-25. The service provides regional delivery. Provision for local, community-based debt advice is sub-granted to local front-line advice organisations across the 11 council areas and regional support.”
“Good luck with that, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I will make a statement on additional funding for debt advice in Northern Ireland. Problem debt can have a devastating impact on individuals and families. It is harmful to physical and mental health and can take its toll on relationships with family and friends. About 12% of adults in Northern Ireland are in need of debt advice. Only a small proportion of those people receive the advice that they need, and they often seek it too late, due to the shame and stigma that are often associated with it. It is important that we do all that we can to highlight the importance of seeking help and to ensure that our debt advice services reach as many people in need as possible. As Minister for Communities, I want to make sure that support gets to the right people at the right time.”
“<BR /> <BR />On recognition in the Executive, I am more than happy to write to the First Minister and deputy First Minister and Executive colleagues and outline to them the importance of carers and try to secure agreement so that we can have that proper recognition and support.”
“First, everyone should take stock of what the Member has just said: carers in Northern Ireland contribute £5·8 billion. If they were not there, that would be an incredible cost that would be put on the public purse, and one that we simply could not meet ourselves. Therefore, we all need to recognise the invaluable work of carers and the contribution that they make and to applaud them and congratulate them for that. We should be doing everything that we can to support them because of the incredible contribution that they make and because of the difference that they make daily in people's lives.”
“I will certainly get that number for the Member, and I can confirm to her that we will be following in the footsteps of England and Wales. There will be some legislation that we will be required to put through, and my understanding is that we will have that in place for April 2025, subject to some agreement with DWP. That is one good thing that has come from the Budget and something to be welcomed, and I am more than happy to ensure that my Department plays its role to make sure that that change can go through.”
“I certainly will not be encouraging civil servants in my Department to pay too much attention to it, but the intention of it is to make sure that we treat people in the right way. I think that we should use our common sense, and I believe that we should treat other people as we would want to be treated. I think that that is a much better way to go forward than being condemned for using phrases such as "ladies and gentlemen".”
“I think that the Member can guess what my view on that is. I am sure that there were good intentions behind the guide, but, let us be clear, there is a lot of nonsense in it as well, including not being able to say the word "Miss" and the phrase "ladies and gentlemen". My favourite is that you should not say that someone is "coasting to retirement" but that they have a valuable contribution to make to the team. A lot of this is utter rubbish, and I think that people should have more common sense on this issue. I am particularly concerned about Stonewall's inclusion in this. Stonewall has been largely discredited in some of the work that it has done, and it is disappointing that the Department of Finance is still using Stonewall in this information.”
“Whenever the issue was being touched on, I engaged with the Housing Executive. I said to it, "What can you do now to make sure that you are ready?". I do not want this rule change to come along and for us then to find ourselves looking at each other, asking what come next. I want to make sure that there is a plan in place so that we can move forward on day 1, and I have full confidence in Grainia Long and her team to make sure that that happens.”
“If the Member means the Housing Executive, we have been working closely with it on that, and it is ready to go, once it gets confirmation. It has a plan in place so that it can take advantage of the rule change and start investing more in the homes that we have and also ensure that we can build more homes. <BR /> <BR />If she is referring to what the Northern Ireland Executive can do, their role is limited. There is not going to be a substantial change made to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. It is more a confirmation of a borrowing rule, rather than a need for, for example, primary legislation from the Executive.”
“I am sorry, but does the Member mean the Housing Executive or the Northern Ireland Executive?”
“Of course we always take on board the concerns and rights of children. I am particularly concerned about the impact that the housing shortage is having right now on those children who are living in temporary accommodation that is often far away from support networks such as their family and school. It is an additional burden. That is what I mean when I say that the lack of housing provision has an impact on education outcomes. Inevitably, it has an impact on health outcomes and sometimes on justice system outcomes, and that is why I am committed to doing everything that I can while I am in office to push forward housebuilding by making homes easier to build and by making sure that we have more homes.”
“We are doing everything that we can to ensure that there are more homes and better homes for people right across Northern Ireland.”
“I am more than happy to provide that exact information, but I do not have it in front of me now. The answer, however, is this: far too many. As I said in response to other questions that have been asked of me today and in the past, we have far too many people who are homeless and far too many who are on a waiting list. The number is going up all the time. We need to make sure that we build more homes across all tenures so that people are not facing homelessness, which has huge health, education and well-being implications for the rest of their lives. We need to get more homes built, and that is why I have progressed a number of items. I am bringing forward the housing supply strategy, pushing the Northern Ireland Housing Executive revitalisation programme and improving the private rented sector.”
“I stand by the comments that I made. That is absolutely my intention, and I hope that the application process will have opened by then. As I said, most importantly, letters of offer will be going out the door by the end of this financial year. I assure the Member that I am doing everything that I can and that my team is doing all that it can to ensure that those deadlines are met. With every day that passes, the money is worth less and less. We have been dealing with that situation for far too long, and that changes now.”
“Great progress has been made on the Northern Ireland Football Fund. We are finalising the application process, and, as I have said in the House and elsewhere, I hope that it will be open towards the end of this year or at the beginning of next year, with the first letters of offer being issued by the end of this financial year. That represents fantastic progress that we have made since I came into office. For far too long, the fund was held up. Money was available, yet no effort was made to get it out to the clubs that needed it most. That has changed since I took over the leadership of this Department, and we are going to have real delivery within months.”
“I want to do everything that I can to make sure that we assist those who are dealing with homelessness right now, but, in the longer term, I want to make it easier and cheaper to build more homes, and that is where our focus should be.”
“The easiest thing that we can do to deal with the over-reliance on emergency accommodation is make sure that we have more housing in Northern Ireland, and I am absolutely committed to achieving that. There are a number of ways that we can do that. I will bring forward the housing supply strategy very soon to make sure that, for the first time, we have a cross-departmental plan in place to deal with the issue. The other big thing that we can do — I encourage all Members around the House to support this — is make sure that the Government confirm that the Housing Executive can borrow on the same basis as housing associations elsewhere in the UK.”
“Far too many people live in temporary accommodation. That is obviously not acceptable. It is not acceptable for anybody to be in temporary accommodation for any prolonged period. These are operational matters for the Housing Executive, and it is up to it to decide what meets the circumstances of the individuals who are in need.”
“I was not messing about in terms of safety certificates for Casement Park, and I was not standing with objectors. We are keeping our end of the deal, but the Member has to understand the budgetary environment that we currently find ourselves in.”
“I am not a magician. I do not have a blank cheque whereby I can get money together and just say, "Yes, whatever it is going to cost, here is the money". To be fair, I have been crystal clear on the issue, and I have been honest about the funds that are available. I was not the one saying that things would be built and that things would be done in time when that was never going to be the case. I have always been straight and honest. I was not the one standing with objectors like members of Mr O'Toole's party were. That held this up and contributed to judicial reviews and put the cost up. <BR /> <BR />I know that a game is sometimes played by Members on the other side of the House, which is this: let us blame unionists, and let us blame the DUP for everything.”
“Let me repeat what I have said before: there is a commitment from the Executive that I stand by. The sum of £62·5 million was originally agreed in 2011. The grant was given to Windsor Park and to Ravenhill, and those stadiums were developed. As the Member will be aware, Casement Park has, for a variety of reasons, not progressed, and, as a result, the cost has gone up. We do not have the budget to increase the resource for that at this time. Therefore, we need to look at what is possible within the budget envelope that we have and what other sources of revenue are available.”
“We have another world heritage site in Northern Ireland, and I was pleased to represent the UK on that visit. I also had the opportunity to engage with the United States Deputy Secretary of State.”
“We are following up on the outcomes of those meetings with officials. I also met the Consul General of the United Kingdom in Canada, the United Kingdom ambassador to the United States, and the Irish ambassador to the United States. <BR /> <BR />I visited D.C. United to speak at a seminar on investment in sports. I had the opportunity to meet the club owners, senior executives and potential investors. I am pleased to inform the House that we will have a number of visits to Northern Ireland by investors as a result of that engagement. <BR /> <BR />I also attended a series of events in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. I joined visitors from Gracehill to mark the designation of four Moravian church settlements as a transnational UNESCO world heritage site. That is a big deal.”
“I undertook a series of engagements in Washington DC, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Canada during my recent trip to the US and Canada. As I already mentioned, the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence presents us with a unique opportunity to promote the historical links between Northern Ireland and the United States. <BR /> <BR />I also took the opportunity to met representatives at the Harkin International Disability Employment Summit. The summit was held in Belfast in 2022. I also met representatives of Microsoft at its innovation and policy centre for a round-table discussion on disability employment. I had constructive discussions with Jennifer Sheehy, who is a deputy assistant secretary at the US Department for Labor, and her senior officials on disability employment-related issues.”
“I certainly agree with the Member's comments about ensuring that people can play a full role in society and, most importantly, get access to basic public services that we so often take for granted. Permission to draft the Bill has received approval from the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. I hope that other Ministers, particularly, as the Member mentioned, the Finance Minister and the Education Minister, will ensure that we have the proper allocation of resources to deliver on the policy intent of the legislation and make things better for a section of our society, members of which so often feel that they are on the margins.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department is investing in increasing British Sign Language and Irish Sign Language interpreting capacity. That is vital in order to increase the accessibility of public services, which will be a central aim of the Bill. As the legislation is cross-cutting in nature, however, I will seek Executive approval for the central allocation of the resources necessary to deliver on the policy intent of the legislation.”
“Given the sign language Bill's cross-cutting nature, I have received Executive approval for my officials to engage formally with the Office of the Legislative Counsel for the drafting of clauses for a Bill that will recognise and promote British Sign Language and Irish Sign Language. Engagement with the Office of the Legislative Counsel is ongoing, and the drafting of clauses is well advanced. Therefore, it is my intention to bring a draft sign language Bill to the Executive for approval at the earliest opportunity. <BR /> <BR />The sign language Bill will have a significantly positive and beneficial impact on the local deaf community. I look forward to delivering legislation that will improve the lives of many by enabling greater access to information and services that society at large takes for granted.”
“I certainly hope that people across Northern Ireland will take the opportunity to celebrate the contribution that people from here made to the founding and development of that nation. We are exploring funding. I hope that we will be able to secure funding from within our existing budgets, as well as support from elsewhere, to make sure that the anniversary can be properly celebrated. We also need to make sure that we leave open opportunities for it to create a greater benefit for Northern Ireland.”
“In fact, people were excited about the opportunities that could come from it, because these are often untold stories. I want to make sure that they are brought into the light. I want it to be understood what people from this part of the world contributed to the development of the United States. I welcome the fact that he thinks that that is a good idea. I will continue to do it.”
“The Member has made a critical error: he sees this only in language terms. That is a problem. It is more about the history and heritage, and the contribution that was made. That is what I want to emphasise. There is a unique Ulster-Scots tradition and heritage in the United States. You have to look only at the contributions that Ulster Scots made. Look at the number of US Presidents who had Ulster-Scots ancestry, including from Carrickfergus in my constituency with Andrew Jackson. You also have those who signed the Declaration of Independence. John Dunlap was one of the first to print copies of the Declaration of Independence. <BR /> <BR />The relationships that were forged and the agreements that were made with those to whom I spoke in the United States were based on a shared understanding.”